Honest truth about Commander Boats

[RiverDave]

The kid is lucky he is not into Cheetah Boats.

Her name isn't going to be Schiada... As much as I fought for it Stacy shot me down. I'm thinking Jebediah Bodine Johnson.

RD

 

[1540RVRCREW]

I have a 23 LX i Love it... Boat runs well , looks good, ect.

What i don't like is the service you get from Commander, i would never have them build me a new boat now a days but the boats from 2000-2006 are clean.

 

[DrHW]

Not sure I follow. I think you were saying if it isn't a Schiada I talk down about it? There's always Howard and DCB..

RD

My understanding is that a Hallett is ok.

 

[HALLETT BOY]

:thumbsup:thumbsup

My understanding is that a Hallett is ok.

 

[TBI]

You guys crack me up.. LOL You make it sound like all the guys with the Hallett's and Schiada's all stop and give each other high fives once they get around the corner of the cove.

Some of you guys (not necessarily the two I quoted) are also under the impression that it's all about a "name." As in boat A with a good name costs more, but it's just the name, and then there's that "Who cares what people say" buy what you like crowd as well..." Like people are actually picking the brands based upon the idea of it being a status symbol?

If you want the truth here it is.. The "name" or reputation of a manufacturer isn't derived from a bunch of guys getting together and being brand loyal. The names of the top tier builders is earned from years or even decades (or longer) of putting out top quality products. The names of the lower end guys comes from lower end rigging, shitty tooling, unhappy customers, crazy shady stories in business practices etc..

Of all the shit I'd likely sell out on because I'm more of a board owner now then a poster like before.. This particular topic isn't one of them. I used to read it all the time, and still do read it occasionally on here where some guy will say "I got the same thing as that guy, but just saved 30,000." No... No ya didn't. You didn't get the same thing as that guy, that's why it cost 30,000 less.

NOW STICK WITH ME HATERS, because I'm about to say something that should be embossed on your foreheads.. LOL

In terms of resale value, the lower tier mfg's are almost impossible to beat. They don't cost as much going in, and you get a lot going out. In some cases you can purchase one new, run it for a season or two and trade them into the mfg for almost exactly what you paid on a new one again! So there is some major upsides to going with a cheaper boat up front.. That being the BIGGEST upside.

Now for a quick blip on the upper end mfg's.. The resale value on the higher end boats is usually shit comparatively. Guess what.. The resale value on a BMW, Mercedes is shit too. As a matter of fact generally the higher up you go on that ladder the worse the resale gets. Go drive a Ferrari off the lot and bring it back an hour later and see what you'll get for it.

So lets talk about some of the differences between what makes a lower tier boat, vs an medium or upper tier boat. It starts with basic things like materials and quality control. Jim Cole used to say 'If there's splatter paint on the transom they are hiding something." That's not necessarily true on all accounts, but it brings up a point. In the case of a lower tier builder they for the most part don't give a shit. If they are running short on marine grade plywood, send the guys down to the store to buy some regular plywood and keep things moving. Or in some cases, they would just use plywood to begin with.. Splatter paint it (Hey the paint will keep the water off of it right?) and nobody will know the difference!

Lets talk about a single bolt through the transom..

Lower Tier MFG - Step one drill hole. Step 2 Insert bolt with silicone.
Medium MFG - Step one drill hole. Step 2 resin hole. Step 3 Insert bolt with silicone.
Top Tier MFG - Step one drill hole. Step 2 put a small radius on hole where the gel is to prevent stress cracking in the future. Step 3 smooth the hole via a grinder. Step 4 resin the hole and wait for resin to completely dry. Step 5 Insert bolt with silicone..

These are just generalities, and I'm in no way saying every cheaper mfg does things one way, and every top mfg does it the other way.. But I am saying if you ever pull a bolt out of the transom of a DCB, you're going to see what I described in the upper end of things, and if you ever pull a bolt out of a commander you're going to see what I described on the lower end of things. It's fairly obvious that one takes considerably more time and skill.

People can say "I got 1000 hours out of my boat." Well no shit.. Most the boats are running traditional Merc packages, and more to the point most the lower end boats are running low HP traditional merc packages. That really doesn't have much to do with the actual quality of the build. When that standard 3 point was installed, was it installed into whatever was on sale that weekend? Or was it installed in hand picked kiln dried doug fir stringers? Or was it installed into a new woodless composite? Did they make their own motor mounts to strengthen things up? Or in the case like the new Nordics did they actually bandsaw up a complete billet cradle for the front of the motor? Ever heard of a drive alignment? It's part of your annual service.. Go ask the mechanics, which brands of boats typically need to have the drives aligned every year? Which brands of boats never move? Interesting statistic - In all the boats Schiada has built and serviced for their customers since Lee took it over, Lee has never once seen a drive come out of alignment. What does that mean? Well if you are asking ole RD "It means when you use quality shit, and then through bolt the fuck out of it things don't move."

When you open an engine hatch and you see battery boxes half over hanging the stringer being held in by 4 lag bolts on one side it just kind of makes ya think.. When you're buddy the trailer builder is laughing over beers and telling you how they just built this trailer for a lower tier builder, and they measured the tunnel and built the trailer. When they set the boat on the trailer it was crooked, and it took them a minute to figure out that one of the tunnels is an inch and a half deeper then the other side of the boat!! Then it makes ya wonder how much time they really spent on tooling and trying to get it perfect.

There's nothing wrong with a cheaper boat! In many cases there is a lot of upsides to them (resale, entry level pricing.. and for some crazy reason a lot of the time they hold up a long time with little damage even after being abused), but you can't take the mindset of "Baddest mofo on the water, and I just saved 30K over that one" like you are in on some kind of industry secret that nobody else knows about.. LOL That has been a major source of frustration between me and Steve in the past.

The guys with the top tier boats aren't driving around the corner and giving each other high fives.. At the same time though, speaking for myself, I know what a hyndai looks like, what a honda looks like, and what a BMW looks like, and a Mercedes, or in the case of DCB's what a Ferrari looks like. It is irritating as shit when someone with a Chevy comes up and starts explaining to me how it's all just stupid names, and they bought a Ferrari minus the badges. How narcissistic do you have to be to actually take the mindset that somehow someway everyone else is that dumb that they didn't know about this Industry secret, and you're the only guy that figured it out. Might be easier to just realize it's a Chevy.

That's the truth as far as new builds / new boats is concerned..

Tomale, it's an old jetboat. It isn't gonna matter what it says on the side of it. Odds are in time you will likely fix or replace anything that's broken or subpar. If the price is right and you like the hull shape, I say go for it. To me (so long as the hull was solid) I wouldn't care what brand it was.. I'd run it and then in the winter pick out somethings that start changing them and upgrading them. Including taking everything that is drilled through the transom, and cleaning it up, resin the holes etc..

RD

 

[DrHW]

You guys crack me up.. LOL You make it sound like all the guys with the Hallett's and Schiada's all stop and give each other high fives once they get around the corner of the cove.

Some of you guys (not necessarily the two I quoted) are also under the impression that it's all about a "name." As in boat a with a good name costs more, but it's just the name, and then there's that "Who cares what people say" buy what you like crowd as well..." Like people are actually picking the brands based upon the idea of it being a status symbol?

If you want the truth here it is.. The "name" or reputation of a manufacturer isn't derived from a bunch of guys getting together and being brand loyal. The names of the top tier builders is earned from years or even decades (or longer) of putting out top quality products. The names of the lower end guys comes from lower end rigging, shitty tooling, unhappy customers, crazy shady stories in business practices etc..

Of all the shit I'd likely sell out on because I'm more of a board owner now then a poster like before.. This particular topic isn't one of them. I used to read it all the time, and still do read it occasionally on here where some guy will say "I got the same thing as that guy, but just saved 30,000." No... No ya didn't. You didn't get the same thing as that guy, that's why it cost 30,000 less.

NOW STICK WITH ME HATERS, because I'm about to say something that should be embossed on your foreheads.. LOL

In terms of resale value, the lower tier mfg's are almost impossible to beat. They don't cost as much going in, and you get a lot going out. In some cases you can purchase one new, run it for a season or two and trade them into the mfg for almost exactly what you paid on a new one again! So there is some major upsides to going with a cheaper boat up front.. That being the BIGGEST upside.

Now for a quick blip on the upper end mfg's.. The resale value on the higher end boats is usually shit comparatively. Guess what.. The resale value on a BMW, Mercedes is shit too. As a matter of fact generally the higher up you go on that ladder the worse the resale gets. Go drive a Ferrari off the lot and bring it back an hour later and see what you'll get for it.

So lets talk about some of the differences between what makes a lower tier boat, vs an medium or upper tier boat. It starts with basic things like materials and quality control. Jim Cole used to say 'If there's splatter paint on the transom they are hiding something." That's not necessarily true on all accounts, but it brings up a point. In the case of a lower tier builder they for the most part don't give a shit. If they are running short on marine grade plywood, send the guys down to the store to buy some regular plywood and keep things moving. Or in some cases, they would just use plywood to begin with.. Splatter paint it (Hey the paint will keep the water off of it right?) and nobody will know the difference!

Lets talk about a single bolt through the transom..

Lower Tier MFG - Step one drill hole. Step 2 Insert bolt with silicone.
Medium MFG - Step one drill hole. Step 2 resin hole. Step 3 Insert bolt with silicone.
Top Tier MFG - Step one drill hole. Step 2 put a small radius on hole where the gel is to prevent stress cracking in the future. Step 3 smooth the hole via a grinder. Step 4 resin the hole and wait for resin to completely dry. Step 5 Insert bolt with silicone..

These are just generalities, and I'm in no way saying every cheaper mfg does things one way, and every top mfg does it the other way.. But I am saying if you ever pull a bolt out of the transom of a DCB, you're going to see what I described in the upper end of things, and if you ever pull a bolt out of a commander you're going to see what I described on the lower end of things. It's fairly obvious that one takes considerably more time and skill.

People can say "I got 1000 hours out of my boat." Well no shit.. Most the boats are running traditional Merc packages, and more to the point most the lower end boats are running low HP traditional merc packages. That really doesn't have much to do with the actual quality of the build. When that standard 3 point was installed, was it installed into whatever was on sale that weekend? Or was it installed in hand picked kiln dried doug fir stringers? Or was it installed into a new woodless composite? Did they make their own motor mounts to strengthen things up? Or in the case like the new Nordics did they actually bandsaw up a complete billet cradle for the front of the motor? Ever heard of a drive alignment? It's part of your annual service.. Go ask the mechanics, which brands of boats typically need to have the drives aligned every year? Which brands of boats never move? Interesting statistic - In all the boats Schiada has built and serviced for their customers since Lee took it over, Lee has never once seen a drive come out of alignment. What does that mean? Well if you are asking ole RD "It means when you use quality shit, and then through bolt the fuck out of it things don't move."

When you open an engine hatch and you see battery boxes half over hanging the stringer being held in by 4 lag bolts on one side it just kind of makes ya think.. When you're buddy the trailer builder is laughing over beers and telling you how they just built this trailer for a lower tier builder, and they measured the tunnel and built the trailer. When they set the boat on the trailer it was crooked, and it took them a minute to figure out that one of the tunnels is an inch and a half deeper then the other side of the boat!! Then it makes ya wonder how much time they really spent on tooling and trying to get it perfect.

There's nothing wrong with a cheaper boat! In many cases there is a lot of upsides to them (resale, entry level pricing.. and for some crazy reason a lot of the time they hold up a long time with little damage even after being abused), but you can't take the mindset of "Baddest mofo on the water, and I just saved 30K over that one" like you are in on some kind of industry secret that nobody else knows about.. LOL That has been a major source of frustration between me and Steve in the past.

The guys with the top tier boats aren't driving around the corner and giving each other high fives.. At the same time though, speaking for myself, I know what a hyndai looks like, what a honda looks like, and what a BMW looks like, and a Mercedes, or in the case of DCB's what a Ferrari looks like. It is irritating as shit when someone with a Chevy comes up and starts explaining to me how it's all just stupid names, and they bought a Ferrari minus the badges. How narcissistic do you have to be to actually take the mindset that somehow someway everyone else is that dumb that they didn't know about this Industry secret, and you're the only guy that figured it out. Might be easier to just realize it's a Chevy.

That's the truth as far as new builds / new boats is concerned..

Tomale, it's an old jetboat. It isn't gonna matter what it says on the side of it. Odds are in time you will likely fix or replace anything that's broken or subpar. If the price is right and you like the hull shape, I say go for it. To me (so long as the hull was solid) I wouldn't care what brand it was.. I'd run it and then in the winter pick out somethings that start changing them and upgrading them. Including taking everything that is drilled through the transom, and cleaning it up, resin the holes etc..

RD

Nothing really new with this. A Man or Women that has disposable income can drive the best Car or Boat and they are less concerned about depreciation because they have additional cash to by the next "best thing" when it comes along. You can always buy the best House, the best meat, the best cheese, the nicest or largest Television, highest thread count sheets, etc. It all depends on how you want to fly and what you can afford to spend your money on. A new car depreciates 20% the first year and then about 15% the second and third year. After five years the deprecation will slow down. The higher the original price the higher dollar depreciation. We know that we get what we pay for. We tell ourselves that we are having just as much fun on the water as the guy that just spent $180,000 on his new Boat.