Here We Go?

[The Phantom]

The R&D costs are shared by private investors all over the world. The notion that the US government is funding R&D in any substantial way is absolutely false. Yes, there are some grants here and there, but most grants are share agreements that must be paid back if the drug successfully makes it to market.

Currently, there is no mechanism to R&D new medicines other than the one we have. The risk to investors is HUGE, less than one percent of new drugs make it to market. Think about that....less than 1% actually cash in. Can you imagine my wife hits you up for 10 or even 100 million then two years later the drug fails and you are left with nothing to show for it? That is the big pharma gamble being played out every single day. Now, I AGREE they have some ridiculous pricing and pricing strategies sometimes but you do not have to participate, don't buy the drugs. Why should big pharma be any different than say Amazon? Everyone here being critical of big Pharma is getting packages from Amazon, who is in fact bigger and more profitable than all of big pharma! Maybe we should shut down Amazon because we are ENTITLED to cheaper stuff with less profit being taken by those greedy capitalists.

Do the drug companies really need investors?

 

[The Phantom]

Here is a dirty little secret.....some of those price disparities are caused by trade agreements like NAFTA and have nothing to do with the actual makers of the drug. I'm not saying the drug companies are completely innocent by any means but often there is more to the story than just the end user price.

You can paint all the reasons with the color of the wind but at the end of day it’s nothing more than a lust for gold. Last time I checked pharmaceutical companies we’re generating in the trillions.

 

[The Phantom]

This sounds great in theory...but this order will FOR SURE open the door to counterfeit drugs. There is no way the FDA will be able to police the slew of generics that are coming. Best they will be able to do is respond when people get sick and die from some made in china or mexico counterfeit drug.

Newsflash, counterfeit products are all over the place.

 

[SNiC Jet]

When there is only one customer, such as countries that have single payer healthcare, they have the negotiating leverage over the drug company. As a result they get lower prices on drugs where there are multiple competitive therapies.

Thanks for "pointing out" that Single Payer plans around the globe survive on the backs of Americans....We have been arguing this fact for years.

 

[The Phantom]

When there is only one customer, such as countries that have single payer healthcare, they have the negotiating leverage over the drug company. As a result they get lower prices on drugs where there are multiple competitive therapies.

I don't support such plans, but I understand there is a benefit to them on purchasing power.

Mr. 530 it must be very difficult for you to post without slandering Trump.

 

[was thatguy]

Mr. 530 it must be very difficult for you to post without slandering Trump.

Wait for it...

 

[HotRod82]

Do the drug companies really need investors?

New drug companies operate 100% off investors. Without investors, there would be NO NEW DRUGS. Period. There is no other mechanism in existence developing new drugs. My wife's current project is working on six different therapies, ranging from a possible therapy for MS to a possible therapy for COPD. They have raised over a billion dollars to fund the researchers, MD's, biologists, chemists, a state of the art lab, etc. Without this funding, again, NO NEW DRUGS! Period. BTW, not one single penny that has been put into this venture came from the government, all of it is raised publicly.

Are you saying the MD's, chemists, etc that are making high salaries doing this research don't deserve to be paid for their skills? Can you develop a new compound that saves lives? I know I can't ....

 

[SNiC Jet]

New drug companies operate 100% off investors. Without investors, there would be NO NEW DRUGS. Period. There is no other mechanism in existence developing new drugs. My wife's current project is working on six different therapies, ranging from a possible therapy for MS to a possible therapy for COPD. They have raised over a billion dollars to fund the researchers, MD's, biologists, chemists, a state of the art lab, etc. Without this funding, again, NO NEW DRUGS! Period. BTW, not one single penny that has been put into this venture came from the government, all of it is raised publicly.

Are you saying the MD's, chemists, etc that are making high salaries doing this research don't deserve to be paid for their skills? Can you develop a new compound that saves lives? I know I can't ....

I agree with your statements here..... What I do not understand is why the burden to repay these investors is placed on U.S. citizens and not collected FAIRLY from ALL of the drug recipients. What is the justification to give these foreign recipients the same product at tremendously reduced prices and we Americans are paying BIG TIME so the foreign recipients can enjoy their cheaper rides........ In other words....Why is BIG PHARMA sticking it up the asses of Americans?

 

[HotRod82]

Please see t&y's post above....my words exactly! With all that jibber jabber you just posted....you did not address the simple question as to why Americans are having to pay multiples for the same medications as other counties for the same......

I notice 530 liked your post.....That qualifies it as a "Certified Pretzel".......Congrats!

And BTW....are you going to stand by your statement below....because dying should not be considered a viable option?

View attachment 907891​

You bet I stand by the philosophy of personal responsibility! You see, here in America we believe you are not ENTITLED to anything including food, a job, healthcare, housing, etc. You have to earn it. Are you saying grocery stores should be handing out food because without it you will die??

Actually, the drug companies are required by law to have a compassion outreach program, if you truly cannot afford a medication, the drug companies have numerous programs that drastically reduce the cost. Again, I'm not saying the system is perfect but it sure beats any single payer programs I've seen.

 

[The Phantom]

New drug companies operate 100% off investors. Without investors, there would be NO NEW DRUGS. Period. There is no other mechanism in existence developing new drugs. My wife's current project is working on six different therapies, ranging from a possible therapy for MS to a possible therapy for COPD. They have raised over a billion dollars to fund the researchers, MD's, biologists, chemists, a state of the art lab, etc. Without this funding, again, NO NEW DRUGS! Period. BTW, not one single penny that has been put into this venture came from the government, all of it is raised publicly.

Are you saying the MD's, chemists, etc that are making high salaries doing this research don't deserve to be paid for their skills? Can you develop a new compound that saves lives? I know I can't ....

So all new drugs are only new drug companies the older companies don’t do anything is that what you’re saying? The question is do I want to develop a compound that saves lives. What’s a high salary?

 

[SNiC Jet]

You bet I stand by the philosophy of personal responsibility! You see, here in America we believe you are not ENTITLED to anything including food, a job, healthcare, housing, etc. You have to earn it. Are you saying grocery stores should be handing out food because without it you will die??

Actually, the drug companies are required by law to have a compassion outreach program, if you truly cannot afford a medication, the drug companies have numerous programs that drastically reduce the cost. Again, I'm not saying the system is perfect but it sure beats any single payer programs I've seen.

Did you read my response? You are avoiding the obvious question on the table.....

What is the justification for BIG PHARMA to give foreign recipients the same products at tremendously reduced prices?
In other words....Why is BIG PHARMA sticking it up the asses of Americans and not fairly spreading these R&D cost worldwide?

 

[HotRod82]

I agree with your statements here..... What I do not understnad is why the burden to repay these investors is placed on U.S. citizens and not collected FAIRLY from ALL of the drug recipients. What is the justification to give these foreign recipients the same product at a tremendously reduced pprice and we Americans are paying BIG TIME for their cheaper rides........

Let me see if I can help clarify.....First, it's really complex and different for all countries involved. If a drug is sold cheaper in Ireland, the drug company makes it up on the back side with things like giant tax incentives. In fact, Australia has a program where the Australian government actually cuts certain companies a check reimbursing them for all operating costs for the entire year!! It isn't as simple as just the retail cost to the consumer....it involves taxes to a HUGE degree, trade agreements in general, and about a million other things. The system is incredibly complex and will make your head spin. We haven't even touched the nightmare of medicare pricing vs. private insurance pricing....it's crazy. In the end, I can tell you the US is not the only ones footing the bill, the single payer countries are paying via their sky high taxes.

 

[HotRod82]

So all new drugs are only new drug companies the older companies don’t do anything is that what you’re saying? The question is do I want to develop a compound that saves lives. What’s a high salary?

Well, 500K is average for a seasoned MD/PHD researcher. I've heard of incredible 800K sign on and retention bonuses. Talent at this level is rare and hard to get....

 

[HotRod82]

Last point guys.......The evil gold lusting big Pharma companies are the ones racing to a Covid-19 cure / therapy / vaccine that will allow us to get back to important things like boating. The entire infrastructure to accomplish this undertaking is staggering, all of it built by those evil drug companies, without them who would be tackling Covid? The government? yeah right, they can't even manage to keep the DMV working right. Hell, congress can't even write a tax code with incentives to keep businesses here in the US.

 

[SNiC Jet]

Well, 500K is average for a seasoned MD/PHD researcher. I've heard of incredible 800K sign on and retention bonuses. Talent at this level is rare and hard to get....

And they are worth every penny!

The entire infrastructure to accomplish this undertaking is staggering, all of it built by those evil drug companies, without them who would be tackling Covid?

This coupled with the preceding point above is why I argue a single payer system here in America will cause the entire world to suffer the consequences .

 

[The Phantom]

Did you read my response? You are avoiding the obvious question on the table.....

What is the justification for BIG PHARMA to give foreign recipients the same products at tremendously reduced prices?
In other words....Why is BIG PHARMA sticking it up the asses of Americans and not fairly spreading these R&D cost worldwide?

He’s using the deflecting technique.

 

[The Phantom]

Last point guys.......The evil gold lusting big Pharma companies are the ones racing to a Covid-19 cure / therapy / vaccine that will allow us to get back to important things like boating. The entire infrastructure to accomplish this undertaking is staggering, all of it built by those evil drug companies, without them who would be tackling Covid? The government? yeah right, they can't even manage to keep the DMV working right. Hell, congress can't even write a tax code with incentives to keep businesses here in the US.

Hydroxychloroquine, zinc, Azithromycin.
Press conference with America’s front line doctors. Big Pharma doesn’t want that information out there.

 

[SNiC Jet]

He’s using the deflecting technique.

To be honest....it does appear that way......but as HotRod has successfully pointed out....it is complex and there is no quick and easy answer....
But, I do believe there are instances where Americans are being "fleeced" by Big Pharma...and apparently, Trump sees it the same.

 

[was thatguy]

 

[SBMech]

Last point guys.......The evil gold lusting big Pharma companies are the ones racing to a Covid-19 cure / therapy / vaccine that will allow us to get back to important things like boating. The entire infrastructure to accomplish this undertaking is staggering, all of it built by those evil drug companies, without them who would be tackling Covid? The government? yeah right, they can't even manage to keep the DMV working right. Hell, congress can't even write a tax code with incentives to keep businesses here in the US.

I was on board until this line of pure bullshit.

They have not been able to find a cure for the common cold. Or any other covid type virus.

You are telling me they are going to announce a cure?

Fucking A...when is the cure for cancer and AIDS going to come out?

Anyone who has looked into the costs of making new "medicines" ultimately sees the truth, there is just too much money involved on an governmental level to cure anything.

 

[The Phantom]

To be honest....it does appear that way......but as HotRod has successfully pointed out....it is complex and there is no quick and easy answer....
But, I do believe there are instances where Americans are being "fleeced" by Big Pharma...and apparently, Trump sees it the same.

Well in my opinion it’s just greed it’s not complex.

 

[SNiC Jet]

Well in my opinion it’s just greed it’s not complex.

I can appreciate your view point as the depths of the "fleecing" is currently undefined due to all of the muck. .....

 

[530RL]

I was on board until this line of pure bullshit.

They have not been able to find a cure for the common cold. Or any other covid type virus.

You are telling me they are going to announce a cure?

Fucking A...when is the cure for cancer and AIDS going to come out?

Anyone who has looked into the costs of making new "medicines" ultimately sees the truth, there is just too much money involved on an governmental level to cure anything.

It is my understanding from the President that there is a cure for Covid.

It is hydroxychloriquine?

There are several threads explaining it as a cure.

 

[RodnJen]

I agree with your statements here..... What I do not understand is why the burden to repay these investors is placed on U.S. citizens and not collected FAIRLY from ALL of the drug recipients. What is the justification to give these foreign recipients the same product at tremendously reduced prices and we Americans are paying BIG TIME so the foreign recipients can enjoy their cheaper rides........ In other words....Why is BIG PHARMA sticking it up the asses of Americans?

Because there is demand for investment return.

 

[SNiC Jet]

Because there is demand for investment return.

And you are good with this ^^^^^ or do you agree with President Trump that Big Pharma is fleecing America? This would be either a "yes" or a "no".

 

[RodnJen]

And you are good with this ^^^^^ or do you agree with President Trump that Big Pharma is fleecing America? This would be either a "yes" or a "no".

When you figure out the question you are asking, I’ll give you a yes or no answer.

 

[was thatguy]

It is my understanding from the President that there is a cure for Covid.

It is hydroxychloriquine?

There are several threads explaining it as a cure.

And there it is...didn’t have to wait long at all!

 

[The Phantom]

And there it is...didn’t have to wait long at all!

If it wasn’t for Trump 530 could become a mute.

 

[SNiC Jet]

When you figure out the question you are asking, I’ll give you a yes or no answer.

The question is there......but.....I will go sloooooow for you .....
Do.....you ..... agree..... with....... President......Trump ........ that....... Big ........ Pharma ....... is ......... fleecing ........ America?


Answer: ....... Yes ...... or ....... No?


.

 

[SNiC Jet]

He’s using the deflecting technique.

Phantom....below is a classic example of a "deflecting response"

When you figure out the question you are asking, I’ll give you a yes or no answer.

 

[RodnJen]

The question is there......but.....I will go sloooooow for you .....
Do.....you ..... agree..... with....... President......Trump ........ that....... Big ........ Pharma ....... is ......... fleecing ........ America?


Answer: ....... Yes ...... or ....... No?


.

Yes, along with big oil, insurance and healthcare. Glad to see you are on board the Regulation Train, clearly just a repurposing of the Trump Train.

 

[SNiC Jet]

Yes, along with big oil, insurance and healthcare. Glad to see you are on board the Regulation Train, clearly just a repurposing of the Trump Train.

The Trump trains purpose and destination has always been clear to me, and as you know, I am on board........glad to see you are finally waking up to reality and agreeing with our President Trump! Welcome Aboard!!!

 

[was thatguy]

Yes, along with big oil, insurance and healthcare. Glad to see you are on board the Regulation Train, clearly just a repurposing of the Trump Train.

Big oil?
Don’t blame big oil for the butt fucking you’re getting in CA. That’s all on you buddy.
YOU voted for Newsom and YOU voted for every fuel tax increase.
Big oil my ass.

 

[The Phantom]

Phantom....below is a classic example of a "deflecting response"

Sinc,
I think Rod means..... Communication is the problem to the answer.

 

[The Phantom]

Big oil?
Don’t blame big oil for the butt fucking you’re getting in CA. That’s all on you buddy.
YOU voted for Newsom and YOU voted for every fuel tax increase.
Big oil my ass.

“Big oil” now there’s a slippery subject.

 

[RodnJen]

Big oil?
Don’t blame big oil for the butt fucking you’re getting in CA. That’s all on you buddy.
YOU voted for Newsom and YOU voted for every fuel tax increase.
Big oil my ass.

Good morning Sunshine. It’s more of a reference to Corporate America and the tax code resulting from lobbyist access to lawmakers.

 

[was thatguy]

Good morning Sunshine. It’s more of a reference to Corporate America and the tax code resulting from lobbyist access to lawmakers.

Good morning!
So rhetoric in other words?

 

[The Phantom]

Good morning Sunshine. It’s more of a reference to Corporate America and the tax code resulting from lobbyist access to lawmakers.

Do you mean some days you’re the bug and some days you’re the windshield?

 

[530RL]

The question is there......but.....I will go sloooooow for you .....
Do.....you ..... agree..... with....... President......Trump ........ that....... Big ........ Pharma ....... is ......... fleecing ........ America?


Answer: ....... Yes ...... or ....... No?


.

Absolutely NO!

They are acting in a rational and logical manner in every market they serve to maximize shareholder returns as they are legally required to do under American law and would do as capitalists.

 

[The Phantom]

Absolutely NO!

They are acting in a rational and logical manner in every market they serve to maximize shareholder returns as they are legally required to do under American law and would do as capitalists.

All this from a guy who fleeces his customers.
Come on now 530 kick that tariff money back to your customers.

 

[spectra3279]

I thought osama got rid of lobbyist?



Oh wait that was another lie

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[was thatguy]

All this from a guy who fleeces his customers.
Come on now 530 kick that tariff money back to your customers.

Excuse me!
He doesn’t work for customers. He works for the other guys.
The oracle has stated outright that morals have no place in the board room.
Any member that does not maximize profits by any (legal?) means available will be replaced.
Although there are companies that do not operate that way, and ARE guided by a mission statement that reflect certain morals, overall it’s hard to argue this point with him.

 

[Sandlord]

The Clinton Foundation and The Gates Foundation, "brokers for pharmaceuticals."

This clip is from the 'Oversight Of Non-Profit Organizations - A Case Study on The Clinton Foundation'.
Tax investigators give examples of how both Gates and Clinton Foundations act as brokers for pharmaceuticals, creating joint organizations abroad to avoid US tax.
By bringing the profits back in to the US after collection by the intl. org., investigators say they are liable for US tax.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVTnDG9jYeg

 

[The Phantom]

Excuse me!
He doesn’t work for customers. He works for the other guys.
The oracle has stated outright that morals have no place in the board room.
Any member that does not maximize profits by any (legal?) means available will be replaced.
Although there are companies that do not operate that way, and ARE guided by a mission statement that reflect certain morals, overall it’s hard to argue this point with him.

530 visits the doctor the doctor tells him he has three months to live. The doctor pauses for a moment and then tells 530 I can guarantee you another five years of very healthy living. The doctor asked 530, how much are you willing to pay?

 

[SNiC Jet]

Absolutely NO!

They are acting in a rational and logical manner in every market they serve to maximize shareholder returns as they are legally required to do under American law and would do as capitalists.

Thanks!....you make it easy to understand why Jesus destroyed the temple....

 

[The Phantom]

Thanks!....you make it easy to understand why Jesus destroyed the temple....

Money changers!

 

[530RL]

530 visits the doctor the doctor tells him he has three months to live. The doctor pauses for a moment and then tells 530 I can guarantee you another five years of very healthy living. The doctor asked 530, how much are you willing to pay?

Isn’t that exactly how healthcare and drug pricing works in America now?

Different prices depending upon who you are and whether or not you are in a group that has negotiated better prices?

Different prices for people based upon their association or socioeconomic status?

 

[The Phantom]

Isn’t that exactly how healthcare and drug pricing works in America now?

Different prices depending upon who you are and whether or not you are in a group that has negotiated better prices?

Different prices for people based upon their association or socioeconomic status?

I think I have a pretty good understanding of how it works but that wasn’t the question.

How much are you willing to pay?

 

[530RL]

I think I have a pretty good understanding of how it works but that wasn’t the question.

How much are you willing to pay?

I have paid whatever it takes to get the best doctors. And as long as we have the system we have, I will pay whatever it takes.

If you want to change the system, I get that and that is your right. But just understand what you are advocating is exactly what AOC and Bernie Sanders are advocating.

 

[was thatguy]

I have paid whatever it takes to get the best doctors. And as long as we have the system we have, I will pay whatever it takes.

If you want to change the system, I get that and that is your right. But just understand what you are advocating is exactly what AOC and Bernie Sanders are advocating.

Are you stating outright that those are the only options?