WELCOME TO RIVER DAVES PLACE

Going off the grid, our family story.

NicPaus

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QUOTE

I am not saying that any member here isn't a hard worker, although ranch, farm , or dairy, or country living, whatever u want to call it, is a different animal , when it comes to hard work.


Going to visit the Grandparents on there farm in Iowa was a rough but good experience for us as kids. 10 years old and helping shovel the last of the grain out the silo with Grandpa was vacation on the farm. There was no standard square shovel, just the grain shovels that are 18" wide not 12". They always ate Breakfast, Lunch, Supper and then Dinner when work is done for the day. Been trying to do the same Myself, takes 4 meals a day to keep the energy going. 40 days in a row 12+ hour days for me just like they are doing back on the farm for spring planting.
 

Amy

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Thanks everyone! I guess it is easy to enjoy the hard work and long hours we are putting in on this project because we LOVE everything about it. This is the future we have chosen. When you like something and it has a purpose it does not seem like work. It is great exercise for the body (farm fit) and the mind (hours of research and learning). So, hang in there with us.....lots of changes coming - we will get some pictures this week :)
 

wash11

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Time for an update!

Since this adventure has a heartbeat and mind of its own, we have made some necessary changes to accomplish our rather lofty goals. As said before, our long time dream has been to raise and direct market fantastic food. We have been overwhelmed with support and equal parts demand. After a few years of dreaming, planning and lots of long hours we finally have the foundation of a viable business that can flourish off the beaten path.
As with any new business, there are up front expenses. To cover these, we chose to put the original house we designed and budgeted for on the back burner. After some soul searching and many long conversations regarding the true definition of "simplifying" we came up with a small house design that we feel will work for us.

Amy named it the "Taj Ma-small".

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650 sq ft house with 650 sq ft wrap around patio. After living comfortably in a 200 sq ft 5th wheel for almost 3 years while up here, this will seem like a mansion. I have a feeling we will absolutely love this little place BUT.... We are leaving the original big pad open in case we decide we want something bigger down the road.

So, back to the chainsaws and getting a new pad cleared. This one overlooks the pond (yet to be finished). This area is more heavily treed than anywhere else on the property so it was week after week after week of cutting, chipping and pulling stumps.

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Amy cleared quite a few stumps on her own while I ran the chipper. Not gonna lie, it's pretty hot watching your wife run equipment.
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Now that we could see through the trees it was time to start measuring slope and figuring out how we wanted things to lay out.
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Looking toward the pond from new clearing.
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TeamGreene

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"Amy cleared quite a few stumps on her own while I ran the chipper. Not gonna lie, it's pretty hot watching your wife run equipment".:thumbsup




Nothing runs like a Dear :) Thanks for the update :thumbsup
 

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wash11

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New additions. Last year we figured out that we badly needed a dump truck. We are fortunate to be able to borrow when needed from neighbors but this is something we just had to have going forward between construction and making compost.

It was pretty ugly. Actually, still fairly ugly but we cleaned it up a bit. Tires, front brakes, full service and a new cooling system along with some rolled on white paint and we were good to go. This thing works pretty much everyday. 10 yard bed, CAT engine and Eaton 10 speed. It just hums along with no complaints hour after hour.


After the clean up and at its new home.



Hauling stumps to help slow erosion in a wash on a neighbors property.


When dealing with rock, you need a screen. To be able to make your own nice fill without hauling it in is a huge time and money saver. A buddy was building one for himself (he has property about 10 miles West of us) and offered to build me one at a price I couldn't refuse. Main screen is for 4" then a 1.5" overlay drops on top to get fine material.

Here is the finished monster.
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Start with this.
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End with this.
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wash11

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Now that we had a capable dump truck it was time to start gathering manure to mix with the chips from the trees we've been taking down to compost for the coming plantings. We've got about 40 yards cooling down now, meaning it's finishing. Several weeks at 155 to 160 degrees, water and turn it everyday. We delivered about 25 yards of finished material to neighbors that have helped us for spring gardens.





The pad that we process on. Everytime we turn the pile we are leaving a bit of very fertile topsoil. Next year we'll move it right before we plant on it.
 

wsuwrhr

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Think about that....

It doesn't cost that much more to double that size, in case......anything. 650 is tiny.

Later on it can be a second structure for a ranch hand/income.

Brian

650 sq ft house with 650 sq ft wrap around patio. After living comfortably in a 200 sq ft 5th wheel for almost 3 years while up here, this will seem like a mansion. I have a feeling we will absolutely love this little place BUT.... We are leaving the original big pad open in case we decide we want something bigger down the road.
 

Cole Trickle

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Think about that....

It doesn't cost that much more to double that size, in case......anything. 650 is tiny.

Later on it can be a second structure for a ranch hand/income.

Brian

Seems like a den with another 150 sq feet could double as a study/library or a spare bedroom when friends visit would give you a little extra space.

If you have other outbuildings shop,garage,tack room's and don't plan to spend much time in the house perhaps you don't need a ton of room.
 

wash11

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Not sure what's going on with attachments. RD said he was having trouble on one of his posts too.
 

wash11

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Think about that....

It doesn't cost that much more to double that size, in case......anything. 650 is tiny.

Later on it can be a second structure for a ranch hand/income.

Brian

Seems like a den with another 150 sq feet could double as a study/library or a spare bedroom when friends visit would give you a little extra space.

If you have other outbuildings shop,garage,tack room's and don't plan to spend much time in the house perhaps you don't need a ton of room.

Man, if you guys knew how many hours we wrestled with this. The original design was a simple 400sq ft open room cabin with a small bathroom. Something to get us here full time while we worked on the larger house. In the future it would be a guest house or for seasonal help to stay in. Then we figured it wasn't much more to make it something fully livable if we had to put one of our folks in it long term. Where do you stop?
For us, it stopped at the ol' wallet. Can we afford to go even bigger without strapping on a 15 year mortgage? Nope. What you see is a balance of wants and needs that stays within our available cash reserves.
 

Racey

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Man, if you guys knew how many hours we wrestled with this. The original design was simple 400sq ft open room cabin with a small bathroom. Something to get us here full time while we worked on the larger house. In the future it would be a guest house or for seasonal help to stay in. Then we figured it wasn't much more to make it something fully livable if we had to put one of our folks in it long term. Where do you stop?
For us, it stopped at the ol' wallet. Can we afford to go even bigger without strapping on a mortgage? Nope. What you see is a balance of wants and needs that stays within our available cash reserves.

Yep exactly, you have to draw the line somewhere, bigger house keeps meaning more expenses, and upkeep. More to heat, more to cool, more to clean, more crap to store (which you are trying to get away from in the first place by doing this whole thing to begin with). More loads of building materials (to a somewhat remote location which people may lose sight of) Yeah it might not cost more to add another 30% of living space when you have a paved street and are only a few miles from the freeway... But when you are several miles back a dirt road, which is 40-50 miles from the nearest supplier or more.....

:thumbsup I completely applaud your constraint to do all of this without borrowing a cent.
 

wsuwrhr

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Man, if you guys knew how many hours we wrestled with this. The original design was simple 400sq ft open room cabin with a small bathroom. Something to get us here full time while we worked on the larger house. In the future it would be a guest house or for seasonal help to stay in. Then we figured it wasn't much more to make it something fully livable if we had to put one of our folks in it long term. Where do you stop?
For us, it stopped at the ol' wallet. Can we afford to go even bigger without strapping on a mortgage? Nope. What you see is a balance of wants and needs that stays within our available cash reserves.

Oh trust me, I thought to PM it to you instead. I know you got hours in planning shit out.

I just felt like I had to mention it. :)

I hope I didn't offend you.
 

wash11

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Oh trust me, I thought to PM it to you instead. I know you got hours in planning shit out.

I just felt like I had to mention it. :)

I hope I didn't offend you.

Didn't take it like that at all. My paradigm has shifted the last 5 years. What I used to think I was "settling for" is now "more than enough". Hope that makes sense. That kind of thinking made it easier to see something so small as something so big.
 

wash11

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Now that everything was cleared including stumps, it was time to bring equipment in. This round we wanted to get the greenhouse pad and multiple level house pad done along with finish grading on the big pad we cut last year. We lined this up with the timing of a big dirt job just a few miles from us. Our good friend already had all his equipment hauled up and used our place as filler work when he was at a stopping point on the main job. This saved us HUGE money. We still have several hours of work for him before he packs his stuff back to town but this is what we have so far.

D8 to cut and fill the greenhouse/high tunnel pad on what was a pretty steep slope. Zero shade in the winters low sun will make this a year round growing machine.


Close to finished product complete with drainage etc. That pad comes out to a tip with a pretty good elevation. I've been saving my pennies for a legit flag pole and solar lighting. There is not a spot on the property or the whole valley for that matter that Old Glory will be hidden from view.

 

wash11

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This is the big pad we cut last year. It was roughed in with a D8 and just left to sit. Time to make it pretty.






Finished product gave me a place to start collecting up all my different piles of fence posts and firewood to tidy up a bit.


 

wash11

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Before we could get too crazy on the new house pad cuts we had to make sure we would have a decent place for the septic. We had to dig a few test holes for the perc test. Luckily, we were able to design and get a system approved where we thought was ideal. We have the permit and will get started on it next week. Almost 130' of 8' deep and 3' wide leech trench in this material. Gonna be some long days on the hoe.

 

rivrrts429

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Before we could get too crazy on the new house pad cuts we had to make sure we would have a decent place for the septic. We had to dig a few test holes for the perc test. Luckily, we were able to design and get a system approved where we thought was ideal. We have the permit and will get started on it next week. Almost 130' of 8' deep and 3' wide leech trench in this material. Gonna be some long days on the hoe.


Did you get approved for chambers or rock/pipe?

Chambers will go fast. You'll have leech pits done pretty quick.

Really impressed with how it's coming along. Awesome job [emoji106]
 

wash11

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Did you get approved for chambers or rock/pipe?

Chambers will go fast. You'll have leech pits done pretty quick.

Really impressed with how it's coming along. Awesome job [emoji106]

Rock/pipe. After pricing the parts, it didn't make sense not to oversize the system. We went with a design that can handle a 3 bedroom, 2 bath house. Sounds like you know something about these. This will be my first time doing one. Looks simple enough. Between the supply house and the gal that did the perc and designed the system, I've got some go to people for questions too.

 

rivrrts429

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Rock/pipe. After pricing the parts, it didn't make sense not to oversize the system. We went with a design that can handle a 3 bedroom, 2 bath house. Sounds like you know something about these. This will be my first time doing one. Looks simple enough. Between the supply house and the gal that did the perc and designed the system, I've got some go to people for questions too.



Yeah, this was my business for many years. Nothing wrong with that system. You're in good hands. I was just curious at what style they like to use there. I'm a big fan of Chambers but rock/pipe is always consistent.

California is based on number of fixtures now, no longer living space. Double sinks in each bathroom can double the system size.

There is a lot of easy cool things you can do with your system to make it a 50 year setup. Basically never have an issue. I like the planning.
 

wash11

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With the septic designed and approved it was time to tackle the house. As you can see, we are building on a hillside. Bitchin in many regards but challenging in others. I have decided over time that I don't really like these large cut and fill jobs on the pads we'll use for production/growing. I know they are necessary, but I had a different vision for this new "Taj Ma-small" area.
What we needed:
Small pad for 10x12 solar building to house battery racks, charge controller and inverter and misc. storage. 1. They take up a bunch of space. 2. Even the highest quality inverters hum. 3. If the solar gets hit by lightning or some other freak problem, I want any fire isolated from the house containing what few belongings we will be taking with us.

Larger pad for the house.

Pad for the garden area.

Pad for a small barn or shop.

I wanted to build this using the existing contours of the land so once grown in, several years from now it would look very natural. Basically, terrace to get the sizes we need but also incorporate necessary drainage.

This is where blade operators are separated between boys and men. My buddy has a reputation for being one of the best operators around but I really didn't know why until now. This isn't one of the fancy new GPS/computer controlled machines. This is all manual and I'm telling you, he's like Billy Joel on a piano running that thing. There is SOOOOO much going on in the cab of that machine it will make your head spin.

He nailed exactly what I had pictured. He sculpted and molded, no material removed and none brought in. He rolled the windrow of rocks into material we wouldn't have to work in later yet still used them in the fill. When we laid out the house with flags, I had to use a hammer and nail before driving them in. It was the same resistance as nailing into a 2x4.




This is the solar house pad.


Main house pad.


Solar and house pad from standing above both in the trees.


Standing on the front porch facing the pond. Imagine being 3' higher though.


Front portion of this pad is for septic tank and leech field. Garden area starts about 30' behind that. Where the Ranger is parked is the last pad, shop/barn or what have you.

 

DC-88

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Looks great:thumbsup Back to the septic--- rock and pipe are cheap so I usually oversize them if we have room. Also depending on perc (yours must be decent due to the line lengths) since you have a huge property it could be possible to plumb the laundry to a gray water tank with a valve to another leech line as they put a lot of load and soap into the system. You never know down the road you may add some fixtures or an out building/ granny unit etc. so bigger is always better while doing it IMO. Only thing I'd question is the rosin paper rather than something more substantial??? Substitute heavy filter fabric.... what you think Rvrrats? I'm sure it will turn out well regardless--:thumbsup
 

rivrrts429

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Looks great:thumbsup Back to the septic--- rock and pipe are cheap so I usually oversize them if we have room. Also depending on perc (yours must be decent due to the line lengths) since you have a huge property it could be possible to plumb the laundry to a gray water tank with a valve to another leech line as they put a lot of load and soap into the system. You never know down the road you may add some fixtures or an out building/ granny unit etc. so bigger is always better while doing it IMO. Only thing I'd question is the rosin paper rather than something more substantial??? Substitute heavy filter fabric.... what you think Rvrrats? I'm sure it will turn out well regardless--:thumbsup

I never had issues with Rosin Paper when done appropriately. It's difficult to fuck up but I've seen it, I'm sure you have too lol. Typical homeowner repairs/builds can be a train wreck after they've watched some HGTV special.

Rosin is cheap and effective. Heavy filter fabric would work too but I still think Rosin is more than adequate while only costing pennies. It's designed to deteriorate rather quickly leaving a definitive barrier between the rock/pipe and fill. For Leech line evaporation purposes it does its job.

Great advice on the laundry. I always, and I mean always, recommended running the laundry separate. Like you said the amount of detergents (bad for septics) and the deluge of water over powers the system and then everything down stream has to pull overtime to keep up. Detergents wipe out the good bacteria and unnecessary amounts of water drown an otherwise perfect leech line.

Putting in a diverter near the distribution box and running a separate line, if money allows, was always a plus too. In an emergency (company over, one spouse away from home, nobody to repair timely, etc...) you can switch the lines and relieve the system instantaneously in most cases until the failure is found and yet still live normally.

I don't want to take away from Wash's thread, but I have no doubts Wash11 has this thing down to a science and it's well thought out. His system is effective and must've perc'd really well. Keep the solids maintained and the system will still be working awesome 30 years from now. Plus he has a shit ton (pun intended) of expansion room. All good input though [emoji106]
 

JDMeister

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Joel

I've missed your updates across town on GD dot com..

JD here.. Steve dropped off a small house warming gift for you at the office..

I'm involved in a knee replacement recovery, so I'm housebound for a while.

Will you have a throne constructed from swords? :)

Still wish to see the massive project, and share a bit of cactus juice.. :champagne:

Jerry
 

wash11

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Joel

I've missed your updates across town on GD dot com..

JD here.. Steve dropped off a small house warming gift for you at the office..

I'm involved in a knee replacement recovery, so I'm housebound for a while.

Will you have a throne constructed from swords? :)

Still wish to see the massive project, and share a bit of cactus juice.. :champagne:

Jerry

Thank you JD! Let me know when you're mobile and can make it up.
 

wash11

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While waiting for the house permit we started trenching for water lines. When I put the main lines in a couple years ago I stubbed out past hydrants/frost free valves to make it easier to extend down the road.



All together, the new water lines add another 700'. Some material is nice digging but the majority is in rock. The worst spot took 3 days, 10 tubes of grease and 6 replacement bucket teeth to go 50'.













Amy has been running behind me in the ditch to tune it up by shovel. The tree roots pick up ALL the grease and redistribute nicely on her:D The heat has been brutal this week but the two of us finally finished the new main trenches. Above you can also see how the material changes to good topsoil. This area is close to the bluff and has collected soil runoff for more years than we can count. Much of our final design revolves around using this little gold mine of great soil after digging several test holes.



Next up is secondary lines for garden and row crop areas. These trenches will carry separate lines for rainwater only out of the collection tank at back of the house as well as power stubbed up with any faucets.
 

riverroyal

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been watching since the beginning. PLEASE do not take your eye off her in that trench. Very unstable looking soil. Its not deep, but it is your wife. Just a friendly reminder from a guy that puts guys in trenches daily. ;)
 

wash11

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been watching since the beginning. PLEASE do not take your eye off her in that trench. Very unstable looking soil. Its not deep, but it is your wife. Just a friendly reminder from a guy that puts guys in trenches daily. ;)

Funny you mention that...... Being this far out, we actually take safety pretty serious. In one picture you can see her working in trench, that's as far as she gets from me and is always line of sight.
 

riverroyal

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Funny you mention that...... Being this far out, we actually take safety pretty serious. In one picture you can see her working in trench, that's as far as she gets from me and is always line of sight.

you take it serious, ridiculous hard work you are doing! Love following this. Just be careful out there. Only thing scarier than a trench is electricity! :eek. You need a drone aerial pictures, be amazing seeing the progress and actual foot print
 

BLOWN HOWARD

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Do you have any wild life on the property you have to worry about being dangerous?
 

wash11

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Do you have any wild life on the property you have to worry about being dangerous?

Bobcat, Javelina and the rare sighting of a Mountain Lion. They want nothing to do with us for the most part and take off as soon as they know we are around. The game cameras catch them all the time though.

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wash11

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Back in Havasu for beef delivery and had time for an update before next customer shows up.

After finishing the rest of the trenches for solar house, house pad, garden and row crop area it was time to get water lines and conduit in. The main reason for running conduit is having timers and valves for irrigation close to where we might be working on something. If you've ever had to check water lines and drip emitters you'll appreciate having valves and timers close by if you're working by yourself.





Monkey and Yarder came up to lend a hand 4th of July weekend.


This is a fire hydrant at the back of the house. Should easily hit house and adjacent building that houses all the solar and batteries etc. We also plumbed in a line dedicated to rainwater that will be collected from the roof of the house and piped directly to the garden. Rainwater is far better than well water for growing. And again, design wise we want to pump the least amount of water possible from the ground. The shorter of the two frost free valves is for rainwater.








End of the line. We made it easy to extend off this as it dumps right into the orchard which won't go in till after the house is finished.

 

Sandlord

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man, I got to get back up there, this week dont look good, but maybe the following week.
 

SpectraPat

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This is an awesome thread! Thank you for sharing your dream. :thumbup:

This maybe a little down the road, but have you thought about a geothermal HVAC system. I've seen a few systems when I was in South Dakota and they are pretty awesome.
 

lebel409

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You guys are doing an awesome job and have obviously thought about this a lot.

I have one suggestion, when you build the house run a water line to the center of the house and up the roof peak. put a golf course rainbird up there so if a fire comes your way you can turn the water on and leave, hopefully keeping the house and belongings safe.
 

Racey

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You guys are doing an awesome job and have obviously thought about this a lot.

I have one suggestion, when you build the house run a water line to the center of the house and up the roof peak. put a golf course rainbird up there so if a fire comes your way you can turn the water on and leave, hopefully keeping the house and belongings safe.

Thats a damn good idea :thumbup:
 

Taboma

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You guys are doing an awesome job and have obviously thought about this a lot.

I have one suggestion, when you build the house run a water line to the center of the house and up the roof peak. put a golf course rainbird up there so if a fire comes your way you can turn the water on and leave, hopefully keeping the house and belongings safe.

Lost my home along with another dozen around me in the 07' Witch Creek (San Diego) fire. Our homes burned from the eves up, not the roof (Tile or metal) down. They also burned due to the older style roof vents being vulnerable to admitting flying embers into the attics. Consultation with the local fire authorities exposed the areas and building methods of concern and were addressed during re-construction, some voluntarily, others mandated by revised and much stricter county codes in areas more susceptible to fire.

As an example, in Joel's case, with large overhanging eves, a sprinkler on the roof will be far less effective than a few under his eves. A soaking wet roof will not stop a fire should it find a source of combustion under his eves. This would be especially true if his design has exposed light timber wood anywhere under the eves. Exposed heavy timber wood is far less likely to burn unless he has vegetation close to the house that will support sustained combustion.

Just my $ .02 :D
 

lebel409

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There was a fire in the hollywood hills a few years ago and a guy had installed a system like that...ithe water went far past the roof, I think it was 75' any direction. The entire neighborhood went up but his house. I'm sure that in addition to brush clearance keeping the surrounding area soaked would help.

I'm not a fire expert (well, starting them...:D) but any peace of mind, especially for a cheap solution in the preconstruction phase, in a very remote area would at least get a look IMO.
 

Taboma

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I'm sure having the area clear surrounding his home, in addition to soaking that area with any remaining foliage helped a bunch. I've got a couple of neighbors with pools, they've got pumps on stand-by for their own use or the firefighters, they're using portable agricultural nozzles for soaking the area surrounding their homes.

There's a few homes around mine that didn't burn and by all rights they should have before mine did --- fire is strange shit :yikes

But knowing what I know now, there's a shit load of things I'd do both design and build wise that reside higher on my To Do list than a roof sprinkler(s). Which I do not have by the way.

I do however have sprinklers under any extended eves over any decks, even though my decks aren't combustible.

My home is built to Shelter in Place, but I have no plans to remain here and test that theory :yikes

I've got awesome house insurance and I'm sitting in a beautiful new, energy efficient home, with zero electric bill ---- meanwhile my neighbor across the street, who's home didn't burn, yet by all rights should have --- well he's still living in the last remaining 44 year old house on the block, wishing his house had burned.

The only thing he has that I don't have, pictures of his parents. :(

I'm familiar with Joel's area, not all that far away I've got a 40 acre parcel ready to build on. I'm watching this thread like a hawk, soaking up all the learnin I can :D

I really enjoy sharing Joel's pictures with my wife, mostly so she can see how hard Joel's wife works :rolleyes :thumbup: :D
 

wash11

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We have had a great monsoon season this year. The only down side is the weather sure can slow you down. The small but necessary projects could fill this thread completely so I'll stick to the big stuff for now. Awhile back I had posted pics of the septic design. The leach field was pretty substantial based on our soil conditions, per the engineer. 8' deep in the hard pan/rock we are on takes its' toll on equipment pretty quick. Since I needed 160+ feet of 8' x 3' trenches I waited patiently to get my hands on a CAT 325 Excavator to save the wear and tear on our backhoe. It was being used at big job site a few miles from our place. When my window opened I had to take it on a 2 1/2 hour drive to our place. These things are not real fast.





I'll spare you pics of the dig and just show the finished product. After laying out, the dig took about 10 hours.







Funny side note for guys that run equipment to highlight my inexperience: It wasn't until I was done doing ALL my digging, over x'ing my main plumbing trenches and all that I found out I had the the option of changing these CAT controls to John Deere controls (which, at this point, I am super familiar with). It's pretty interesting and awkward going back and forth from machine to machine running different controls.

Amy used our new screen to run everything from the ditches through so we had nice back fill material, while I ran excavator and dump truck. Only down side is, she would wear everything when screening and this stuff is like talcum powder. A loader with enclosed cab would have been bitchen.





By my math, we needed 70 yards of leach rock. I struck a deal with a owner/operator running a truck for the big job, to bring a load with him everyday from town. He could bring 18 yards each trip so we had him bring 72 total. Unfortunately, he could only bring it to the exit so we had to get it the 6 miles back to our place. We put Lucy, our dump truck to use, 7 yards at a time. Luckily, our neighbor has an old Michigan loader stored pretty close to the drop point of the rock. This thing is awesome. 2 stroke Detroit and a big "suck it" to OSHA and anything safety related. If this thing goes over, it will be a fantastically violent death.







Here we are doing the labor intensive job of laying in and leveling the leach rock. This stuff is just the right size that rakes and shovels don't want to move it so you really need someone in the ditch eating dust telling you exactly where to sprinkle it in. Yarder was that guy for me.



The upright pipes in this photo were left in so the inspector could verify that we went the proper depth with the leach rock. These pics were all ready for inspection.





The county building inspector was pretty cool and complimented our system, saying it was one of the nicest "owner/builder" ones he'd seen. He even took our picture for us with our final!




Post inspection, Amy and I spent the rest of the day covering the leach line with rock, then red rosin paper and finally, all the nice fill she had made.








All that is left is returning the topsoil and hooking the main line toward the house but we were ready for a much needed break.

 
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