First weekend with V-Drive

[Froggystyle]

Here are some pics of the Cary... 11 1/2 x 15". Perfect size I think.

Total score having this in the garage. Probably worth more than the Cole it came out of.

Surface rust only, no pits. Gonna get it checked and magged. Anyone got a preferred place to bring a prop made of pure unobtainium for work?

 

[oldschool]

Yeah, not good. Chrome covers hairline cracks and makes it impossible to check properly. You don't want to hear this but I'm gonna say it anyway.........it really does need to come out to get stripped and mag'd. Its an older boat and with the added power it does indeed need to be checked.

But what do I know, the above photos were taken just after pulling my kid sister on a ski with her 2 & 4 year old grandkids in the boat. You can see by the second pic that the prop was just about to eat thru the hull, you could see daylite thru the glass........

Carl

X2 on this. Check the strut and ditch the chrome.

 

[Froggystyle]

X2 on this. Check the strut and ditch the chrome.

I will... just not this week. It looks really clean, and the boat has so few hours on it I have to imagine it is fine.

Either way, I am not pulling the boat apart again to do it... so there you go. Final answer.




Jesus... I'm gonna end up pulling that thing, aren't I?

 

[oldschool]

I will... just not this week. It looks really clean, and the boat has so few hours on it I have to imagine it is fine.

Either way, I am not pulling the boat apart again to do it... so there you go. Final answer.




Jesus... I'm gonna end up pulling that thing, aren't I?

LOL. Ya, it's one of those things that you know will be fine........but, just maybe??? Did you get info from the seller? If he knows the history and you trust that info then you're probably ok.
I had a similiar situation. Bought my cruiser, everything looked fine. Put the turbo motor in ran it a few times and shazam, there was a VERY small crack in the strut. So, out came old strut and in went the new one.

 

[CampbellCarl]

I will... just not this week. It looks really clean, and the boat has so few hours on it I have to imagine it is fine.

Either way, I am not pulling the boat apart again to do it... so there you go. Final answer.




Jesus... I'm gonna end up pulling that thing, aren't I?

The strut pictured above (my '78 Howard cruiser) had 49 hours on the clock when the strut broke..........Final answer?......................

 

[rivergames]

The strut pictured above (my '78 Howard cruiser) had 49 hours on the clock when the strut broke..........Final answer?......................

Stop hitting sandbars! :cool

 

[Racey]

Wes, I will call you in the morning after an 8:30 am Dr. appointment to get stitches removed from some skin cancer surgery. The gears that were in it are not 12% over, they are at least 40's. What size is your prop shaft, 1" or 11/8"? I have several diff. props. My number is 714 579-7857

Yeah, looking at the size difference/teeth count between those gears there is no way that is 12%, it's closer to 40. I kinda counted the teeth on the screen and guessed in the places hidden by the shafts, i came up with 44/32 which is 37.5%, i don't think that's an actual casale ratio, but it's close enough for a guess.

Also Froggy, you need to ditch those little gears and put in the heavier 6 pitch tooth gears (like the other ones you pictured), also avoid those 10 square spline shafts, and stick to the good involute splines. I'm sure Steveo will agree.

 

[Froggystyle]

Yeah, looking at the size difference/teeth count between those gears there is no way that is 12%, it's closer to 40. I kinda counted the teeth on the screen and guessed in the places hidden by the shafts, i came up with 44/32 which is 37.5%, i don't think that's an actual casale ratio, but it's close enough for a guess.

Also Froggy, you need to ditch those little gears and put in the heavier 6 pitch tooth gears (like the other ones you pictured), also avoid those 10 square spline shafts, and stick to the good involute splines. I'm sure Steveo will agree.

The heavy gears were the ones that came out of it, and they are 17% gears it turns out. The ones going into it are the 10 square splines, and they are 40%.

I guess the pics are confusing.

Lastly, the strut is a drop through, and I really don't want to pull the motor to get to it, so I am gonna take my chances for now. It looks really clean, while that strut in the above pic, 49 hours or not is pitted as hell compared to mine, which is flawless appearing.

 

[CampbellCarl]

The heavy gears were the ones that came out of it, and they are 17% gears it turns out. The ones going into it are the 10 square splines, and they are 40%.

I guess the pics are confusing.

Lastly, the strut is a drop through, and I really don't want to pull the motor to get to it, so I am gonna take my chances for now. It looks really clean, while that strut in the above pic, 49 hours or not is pitted as hell compared to mine, which is flawless appearing.

Phone a friend?....................................

 

[Froggystyle]

Phone a friend?....................................

I know... I know...

I never have been a fan of not having the time to do it right, but finding the time to do it again... I just so don't want to take this all apart again.

 

[rivrrts429]

I'm following this thread to learn more about how this stuff works. I have zero knowledge on this stuff but I did want to say...

This boat is beautiful. The gel scheme is awesome and looks bad ass in the pics. Can't wait to hear how it runs once the handling issues are resolved :thumbsup
Nice find Froggystyle!

 

[Froggystyle]

I'm following this thread to learn more about how this stuff works. I have zero knowledge on this stuff but I did want to say...

This boat is beautiful. The gel scheme is awesome and looks bad ass in the pics. Can't wait to hear how it runs once the handling issues are resolved :thumbsup
Nice find Froggystyle!

Thanks RR... Pretty cool boat, and I am stoked to be the new curator of it!

 

[Boat Anchor]

Hey Froggy, Your boat was once owned by a neighbor of mine Scott
Stephens (Scott's Custom Colors) in Simi Valley, Ca. He purchased the
boat in the late 1980's as a basket case from Bob Teague (Teague Custom
Marine) with all the parts and needed to be reassembled. Stephens
painted the boat (it's current paint scheme) and trailer, installed a
BBC 454, 6-71, 2 750 Holleys, Turbo 400, and named it "Water Colors".
The boat was featured in the September 1989 issue of Popular Mechanics,
in an article titled California Muscle Boats. Specifications mentioned
in the article include Engine Displacement 454 (cu.in.), Bore x Stroke
4.25 x 4.00, Horse Power 475 @ 6000 RPM, Induction GMC 6-71 Blower,
Boat Hull Spectra 19 ft. Semi V, Engine Price $11,000., Complete Boat
$30,000., Top Speed = 95 MPH. V-Drive overdrive was stated to be 43%.
If you have questions as to the set up of this boat, you might want to
get ahold of Bob Teague. He quite possibly could be the person who
originally rigged the boat (he has built a number of them), and he has
successfully campaigned a 19 ft. Spectra Semi V, twin turbo, v-drive as
a GN boat (GN77) in the past. The concern over your chromed strut is
not if your strut is shinny and smooth, no nicks, or rust beginning to
appear, but weather or not the strut was properly baked after the
chroming process to eliminate Hydrogen Embrittlement. Chrome plating
can also hide cracks in steel which are subsurface to the plating
layer. A failure caused by Hydrogen Embrittlement is typically a
catastrophic failure with no warning or visual evidence it's about to
happen. Look at the photos of Carl's strut. That failure happened
without any warning while pulling up a skier. It just happened to be
the right load and snap! Pull the strut. strip the chrome, bake, x-ray,
reinstall, coat with speedcoat. The boat looks great after all these
years. Keep it up and enjoy.

Boat Anchor

 

[Froggystyle]

Hey Froggy, Your boat was once owned by a neighbor of mine Scott
Stephens (Scott's Custom Colors) in Simi Valley, Ca. He purchased the
boat in the late 1980's as a basket case from Bob Teague (Teague Custom
Marine) with all the parts and needed to be reassembled. Stephens
painted the boat (it's current paint scheme) and trailer, installed a
BBC 454, 6-71, 2 750 Holleys, Turbo 400, and named it "Water Colors".
The boat was featured in the September 1989 issue of Popular Mechanics,
in an article titled California Muscle Boats. Specifications mentioned
in the article include Engine Displacement 454 (cu.in.), Bore x Stroke
4.25 x 4.00, Horse Power 475 @ 6000 RPM, Induction GMC 6-71 Blower,
Boat Hull Spectra 19 ft. Semi V, Engine Price $11,000., Complete Boat
$30,000., Top Speed = 95 MPH. V-Drive overdrive was stated to be 43%.
If you have questions as to the set up of this boat, you might want to
get ahold of Bob Teague. He quite possibly could be the person who
originally rigged the boat (he has built a number of them), and he has
successfully campaigned a 19 ft. Spectra Semi V, twin turbo, v-drive as
a GN boat (GN77) in the past. The concern over your chromed strut is
not if your strut is shinny and smooth, no nicks, or rust beginning to
appear, but weather or not the strut was properly baked after the
chroming process to eliminate Hydrogen Embrittlement. Chrome plating
can also hide cracks in steel which are subsurface to the plating
layer. A failure caused by Hydrogen Embrittlement is typically a
catastrophic failure with no warning or visual evidence it's about to
happen. Look at the photos of Carl's strut. That failure happened
without any warning while pulling up a skier. It just happened to be
the right load and snap! Pull the strut. strip the chrome, bake, x-ray,
reinstall, coat with speedcoat. The boat looks great after all these
years. Keep it up and enjoy.

Boat Anchor

Thanks! Do you still know Scott? I think he would get a kick out of seeing the boat again...

 

[CampbellCarl]

I know... I know...

I never have been a fan of not having the time to do it right, but finding the time to do it again... I just so don't want to take this all apart again.

My weekend is clear....................help is but a PM away...................:thumbsup

 

[Froggystyle]

My weekend is clear....................help is but a PM away...................:thumbsup

You're on Carl... I'll bring the bad attitude and the beer.

Actually, the point may be moo (it's a joke...) as I can't get the fucking prop off the Cole's propshaft.

How much heat does one apply with the official Rex Marine prop puller thingy?

"Proper Pulling Procedure: Leave the nut loose, but threaded on the end of the shaft to avoid the prop flying off and hitting you or the dumbass helping you. Preload the puller bolt, then hit the end of the bolt with a hammer. Apply heat if necessary. Important... Do Not attempt to torque the prop off with the puller bolt -Puller and prop shaft end damage will occur. Preload, shock and heat is the winning combination here. A little anti-seize when you install a prop is helpful too"

 

[Racey]

The heavy gears were the ones that came out of it, and they are 17% gears it turns out. The ones going into it are the 10 square splines, and they are 40%.

I guess the pics are confusing.

Lastly, the strut is a drop through, and I really don't want to pull the motor to get to it, so I am gonna take my chances for now. It looks really clean, while that strut in the above pic, 49 hours or not is pitted as hell compared to mine, which is flawless appearing.

I would be very easy on the throttle with the small gears and that kind of HP, I have seen those standard pitch gears blow teeth off with around 700hp in a 21 schiada.... The big tooth gears (6 pitch) are good for 1500+hp constant.

 

[Froggystyle]

I would be very easy on the throttle with the small gears and that kind of HP, I have seen those standard pitch gears blow teeth off with around 700hp in a 21 schiada.... The big tooth gears (6 pitch) are good for 1500+hp constant.

Shit.

 

[rivergames]

You're on Carl... I'll bring the bad attitude and the beer.

Actually, the point may be moo (it's a joke...) as I can't get the fucking prop off the Cole's propshaft.

How much heat does one apply with the official Rex Marine prop puller thingy?

"Proper Pulling Procedure: Leave the nut loose, but threaded on the end of the shaft to avoid the prop flying off and hitting you or the dumbass helping you. Preload the puller bolt, then hit the end of the bolt with a hammer. Apply heat if necessary. Important... Do Not attempt to torque the prop off with the puller bolt -Puller and prop shaft end damage will occur. Preload, shock and heat is the winning combination here. A little anti-seize when you install a prop is helpful too"

Do Not keep heating the prop to try and get it to break loose

You can use the coupler if it steel. Open the coupler so it slides on the shaft. Stand the prop shaft straight up with the prop on the bottom end. Slide (more like throw) the couple from the top down to the bottom. Just like a slide hammer the coupler works well. Make sure you keep a nut loose on the end of the prop shaft. That way the prop won't go flying off when it releases

 

[Froggystyle]

Do Not keep heating the prop to try and get it to break loose

You can use the coupler if it steel. Open the coupler so it slides on the shaft. Stand the prop shaft straight up with the prop on the bottom end. Slide (more like throw) the couple from the top down to the bottom. Just like a slide hammer the coupler works well. Make sure you keep a nut loose on the end of the prop shaft. That way the prop won't go flying off when it releases

The coupler that goes to the V-drive on the inside? Seems like a tight fit.

 

[CampbellCarl]

Get something in there and let it soak, best choice is ATF and acetone. Mix up a batch and start squirting it into the prop-propshaft joint or better yet, mix up a big batch in a bucket and set the prop-propshaft into the bucket......gonna take a few days of lube/soak.

 

[rivergames]

The coupler that goes to the V-drive on the inside? Seems like a tight fit.

Take the 6 bolts out of the coupler. Install 2 bolts through the threaded holes on the opposite side of the split. You will notice that it will push the coupler open. Now the coupler should be able to freely slide on the shaft.... Throw that summa bitch down the shaft a few times and it will pop off.


Bob (RIP) at Glenwood showed me that trick. I tried every trick possible to get a prop off the shaft a few years ago. I finally gave up and went over to Glenwood. Bob laughed and had the prop off with 2 throws of the coupler. lol

 

[Froggystyle]

Take the 6 bolts out of the coupler. Install 2 bolts through the threaded holes on the opposite side of the split. You will notice that it will push the coupler open. Now the coupler should be able to freely slide on the shaft.... Throw that summa bitch down the shaft a few times and it will pop off.


Bob (RIP) at Glenwood showed me that trick. I tried every trick possible to get a prop off the shaft a few years ago. I finally gave up and went over to Glenwood. Bob laughed and had the prop off with 2 throws of the coupler. lol

Well... that is a great trick.

I used the one off the Cole to do it, and it was unimpressed.

So I used a 10# weight, which fit perfectly over the shaft incidentally and drilled the coupler with that. No joy.

I think I am gonna just get some LPS and let it work. I have been using WD, but not sure how good of a penetrating oil that is.

Need some liquid wrench.

 

[CampbellCarl]

Well... that is a great trick.

I used the one off the Cole to do it, and it was unimpressed.

So I used a 10# weight, which fit perfectly over the shaft incidentally and drilled the coupler with that. No joy.

I think I am gonna just get some LPS and let it work. I have been using WD, but not sure how good of a penetrating oil that is.

Need some liquid wrench.

No, you need the concoction I posted above, works better than any store bought penetrant on the market. And you probably have it (ATF and acetone) in your garage.

Acetone thins and carries the ATF into the joint then evaporates leaving the lubricant to do its job.

 

[500bbc]

I've left the puller on over night with plenty of penetrant and a little heat, whacked the puller the next morning and she was good.

 

[obnoxious001]

No, you need the concoction I posted above, works better than any store bought penetrant on the market. And you probably have it (ATF and acetone) in your garage.

Acetone thins and carries the ATF into the joint then evaporates leaving the lubricant to do its job.

One of these days I will try some of that,, another thing I have used with success is PB Blaster(found at Walmart and some parts stores),, it has some kind of catalyst/heat action, and has been good on getting rusty rings off pistons without destroying the piston.

 

[Froggystyle]

One of these days I will try some of that,, another thing I have used with success is PB Blaster(found at Walmart and some parts stores),, it has some kind of catalyst/heat action, and has been good on getting rusty rings off pistons without destroying the piston.

Funny... that's what I just bought. They had me at "catalyst"...

I will leave this on overnight. If no joy, I will make up a batch of Carl's hyper flammable hazmat tomorrow...

 

[spectras only]

Wes, if the prop really seized on the shaft, I'd pull the shaft/prop out completely and use a hydraulic press to remove the prop. I wouldn't hammer on it much more if you tried heating it up already and it didn't move.
As Boat Anchor mentioned ,chroming covers shit up. I wouldn't chrome prop or rudder myself, especially with high HP application.

 

[Racey]

Wes, if the prop really seized on the shaft, I'd pull the shaft/prop out completely and use a hydraulic press to remove the prop. I wouldn't hammer on it much more if you tried heating it up already and it didn't move.
As Boat Anchor mentioned ,chroming covers shit up. I wouldn't chrome prop or rudder myself, especially with high HP application.

Also if you are chroming any 4130 parts, they need to be sent to an FAA spec chromer, the part needs to be placed into an oven directly after coming out of the chrome tank, at about 300 degrees for at least an hour to stop hydrogen embrittlement from forming in the part.....


Stuck prop = Slide hammer method like Andrew (rivergames) said. This is how they get props off the top fuel hydros that run tapered props, The things litterally hammer/gall themselves to the shaft, If you already have the shaft out of the boat then it's easy to do. Edit: just saw you already tried, can't believe it's on there that friggin good. Like carl said 50/50 Acetone and ATF is the best penetrating fluid you can use, nothing in a can will compare afaik, you can't aerosol can acetone and it evaporates out of the solution, so you need to mix a fresh batch each time.

 

[Faceaz]

No, you need the concoction I posted above, works better than any store bought penetrant on the market. And you probably have it (ATF and acetone) in your garage.

Acetone thins and carries the ATF into the joint then evaporates leaving the lubricant to do its job.

Yep, mixed 50/50. :thumbsup

Best penetrant I've ever used.

 

[Crazyhippy]

How about Lucas Tool Box Buddy?

I've got half a can of pb blaster and will need it replaced at some point

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

 

[djunkie]

Also if you are chroming any 4130 parts, they need to be sent to an FAA spec chromer, the part needs to be placed into an oven directly after coming out of the chrome tank, at about 300 degrees for at least an hour to stop hydrogen embrittlement from forming in the part.....


Stuck prop = Slide hammer method like Andrew (rivergames) said. This is how they get props off the top fuel hydros that run tapered props, The things litterally hammer/gall themselves to the shaft, If you already have the shaft out of the boat then it's easy to do. Edit: just saw you already tried, can't believe it's on there that friggin good. Like carl said 50/50 Acetone and ATF is the best penetrating fluid you can use, nothing in a can will compare afaik, you can't aerosol can acetone and it evaporates out of the solution, so you need to mix a fresh batch each time.

I was wondering about that with the acetone. Good to know.

 

[vdcruiser]

You sure are getting a lot of good advice here but I'll give you a little bit more, I made my "slide hammer" out of a piece double extra heavy steel pipe, big enough to easily slip over the shaft and about 11 or 12 inches long, same principle as above but heavier. And its never failed me.

 

[FlatNv]

man I dig your boat!!:thumbsup,looks so clean sitting in the water, classic... on the chrome issue I'm glad I took the advise.. ordered a new one, then after a closer look and some grinding found this

 

[Froggystyle]

man I dig your boat!!:thumbsup,looks so clean sitting in the water, classic... on the chrome issue I'm glad I took the advise.. ordered a new one, then after a closer look and some grinding found this

Thanks. Love to see some pics of yours. That thing looks awesome from the avatar!

 

[FreeBird236]

Great lookin boat, great thread...:thumbsup

 

[oldschool]

man I dig your boat!!:thumbsup,looks so clean sitting in the water, classic... on the chrome issue I'm glad I took the advise.. ordered a new one, then after a closer look and some grinding found this

That's the best time to find those cracks, just before they become "breaks". Same concept as changing aluminum rods. You change them one pass before they break.:thumbup:

 

[rivergames]

Also if you are chroming any 4130 parts, they need to be sent to an FAA spec chromer, the part needs to be placed into an oven directly after coming out of the chrome tank, at about 300 degrees for at least an hour to stop hydrogen embrittlement from forming in the part.....


Stuck prop = Slide hammer method like Andrew (rivergames) said. This is how they get props off the top fuel hydros that run tapered props, The things litterally hammer/gall themselves to the shaft, If you already have the shaft out of the boat then it's easy to do. Edit: just saw you already tried, can't believe it's on there that friggin good. Like carl said 50/50 Acetone and ATF is the best penetrating fluid you can use, nothing in a can will compare afaik, you can't aerosol can acetone and it evaporates out of the solution, so you need to mix a fresh batch each time.

Those eye drop plate pad deals you water jetted for the new cracker are bad ass :thumbsup

 

[Froggystyle]

Also if you are chroming any 4130 parts, they need to be sent to an FAA spec chromer, the part needs to be placed into an oven directly after coming out of the chrome tank, at about 300 degrees for at least an hour to stop hydrogen embrittlement from forming in the part.....

Purely out of curiosity... Teague rigged this boat in 1989. What are the odds that the above series of events occurred when this part was chromed?

 

[Racey]

Purely out of curiosity... Teague rigged this boat in 1989. What are the odds that the above series of events occurred when this part was chromed?

If it was rigged as a pleasure boat with mild horsepower it's not really now, nor was it then an issue to have them plated with the standard chrome process. So my guess would be they were not oven cured post chroming.... When it comes time to replace any of that stuff just ditch the 4130 chromoly all together and get a rudder and strut made from 17-4PH stainless, after they have been welded you have them solution annealed THEN hardened. As for a prop, you are going to want to stay away from stainless in that department and stick with your steel alloy 2 and 3 blades, many of them are made from 4340.

 

[FlatNv]

Thanks. Love to see some pics of yours. That thing looks awesome from the avatar!

Thanks, have owned it for about 4 years, same boat I 1st drove when I was 14 or 15, man I was stoked the day I finally brought it home.

hey old school I'm running aluminum rods:grumble:

 

[TBI]

Thanks, have owned it for about 4 years, same boat I 1st drove when I was 14 or 15, man I was stoked the day I finally brought it home.

:thumbsup

 

[Froggystyle]

If anyone cares...

Prop came off with one whack today after hosing it down with PB Blaster overnight. No problem.

I have no question the ATF would work better, but if you need an over the counter solution, I didn't even hit it that hard. This shit is going in the toolbox for sure.

Good stuff.

 

[FreeBird236]

If anyone cares...

Prop came off with one whack today after hosing it down with PB Blaster overnight. No problem.

I have no question the ATF would work better, but if you need an over the counter solution, I didn't even hit it that hard. This shit is going in the toolbox for sure.

Good stuff.

That's good news.:thumbsup Saw that short vid on FB, Looks and sounds great.:thumbsup

 

[Froggystyle]

If it was rigged as a pleasure boat with mild horsepower it's not really now, nor was it then an issue to have them plated with the standard chrome process. So my guess would be they were not oven cured post chroming.... When it comes time to replace any of that stuff just ditch the 4130 chromoly all together and get a rudder and strut made from 17-4PH stainless, after they have been welded you have them solution annealed THEN hardened. As for a prop, you are going to want to stay away from stainless in that department and stick with your steel alloy 2 and 3 blades, many of them are made from 4340.

Gotcha. So... what I am planning on doing is pulling this strut, having a chrome place strip it, inspecting it and hopefully reinstalling...

I'm sure the Cary is a steel prop, just not sure what alloy... but it is rusting, and super magnetically attractive, so it is a relatively high iron steel.

 

[Froggystyle]

That's good news.:thumbsup Saw that short vid on FB, Looks and sounds great.:thumbsup

Thanks FB!

 

[Crazyhippy]

I read a post somewhere about making sure the prop is sitting on the shaft and not the keyway.

Slide the prop on the shaft sans Jetway, tighten nut etc and mark the shaft.

Remove, install Jetway, reinstall prop and it should line up with the same mark...

Something I wouldn't have thought of, but a really good idea, point, etc...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

 

[CampbellCarl]

I read a post somewhere about making sure the prop is sitting on the shaft and not the keyway.

Slide the prop on the shaft sans Jetway, tighten nut etc and mark the shaft.

Remove, install Jetway, reinstall prop and it should line up with the same mark...

Something I wouldn't have thought of, but a really good idea, point, etc...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

Guessing that spell check is changing keyway to jetway.........or, all of my v-drives are missing their jetway...................

 

[obnoxious001]

If anyone cares...

Prop came off with one whack today after hosing it down with PB Blaster overnight. No problem.

I have no question the ATF would work better, but if you need an over the counter solution, I didn't even hit it that hard. This shit is going in the toolbox for sure.

Good stuff.

Thought you might like that stuff,,, haven't been around this long without learning a couple of tricks.

 

[Froggystyle]

Thought you might like that stuff,,, haven't been around this long without learning a couple of tricks.

Yeah... now the next step is getting the strut pulled and de-chromed. I really, REALLY wish I had known that was gonna be necessary when I had the whole thing apart, and actually gelcoated around the mounts so as not to disturb the setup.

Now, it's gonna be a combination of ugly and difficult to reach.

Boo...

I assume the propshaft just comes straight out the bottom, or can you leave it in, and the flex will allow it to drop the strut enough to clear itself?