First weekend with V-Drive

[500bbc]

Check with steveo143, he's running a TT motor in his 19' Schiada.

 

[460]

Can't wait to see it run Wes. But settle down on the jet boat comments

 

[rivergames]

Your prop is too big and cavitating the ass end causing it to bow steer every time you get on/off the gas. Ditch the 3 blade. It will wreck havoc on the boat sooner or later. A good 2 blade will make a nite and day difference when you are on "Kill mode" with the gas pedal.

Your boat should pull 43 gears no problem. That is were I would start, but what do I know... You might even go bigger

Take the v-drive to Steveo and have him go through it. He has done many many v-drives, let alone makes his own. He is in the OC.

Be Careful bud. With a improper setup and that much power, you could easily wad the boat up. I would also take the boat to have them "once over" your safety setup.. There are a few tricks to properly setup a v-drive that can prevent future failure. I don't know if you are close to LA, but if you are ever around, I can show you what I'm talking about there.

 

[obnoxious001]

Just to see what the setup looks like, what is the shaft angle and how far is the end of the strut barrel from the transom? I have made a lot of changes to my Howard and laying down the strut angle to 7.5 degrees and moving it forward to 23.5" from the transom made the most improvement. That and using smaller dia 2 blades, 11 1/4 works well for me. I agree with Barry, prop size and design will be a big factor in handling.

I went back and re-read his description, only thing I see is scary fast and steering torque, and never a mention of prop size.

I ran an 11 1/2 x 15 and later an 11 3/8 x 15 (both two blades), running with 43 and 45 gears in my 20' Schiada. There were a couple of ski racers that ran 3 blade props, but not many.

That 12 gear should have been changed out while the V drive was out of the boat, but still didn't see boost or power mentioned. I originally was running 37's in my boat when I had an 8-71 blower with a milder tune (8 lbs boost) and no transmission.

 

[Sharp Shooter]

I like the idea of going to the guys with the most experience and success with that given type of hull. You just have to figure out who that is and hope they'll talk to you.

These hulls work well that has already been proven. Personnally, I never would've ran a 3 blade prop on there.

 

[obnoxious001]

Your boat should pull 43 gears no problem. That is were I would start, but what do I know... You might even go bigger

I still think it's important to know how much power the engine is making prior to selecting a gear. For example,, Stevo143 runs like 15 lbs of boost or so on E85, so likely his will pull a bigger gear than an engine running pump gas at much lower boost.

 

[Sharp Shooter]

I'm not sure why, but I thought this was an early Schiada/Hallet style hull, but no it's a Spectra.

This one did well at one of the Parker Enduro's owned by the Oliver family. They ran a blower motor and I think they GN raced it too. I would get ahold of Joey Cucci at D' Cucci boats in Havasu and ask Joey for Kelly Oliver's phone number. It couldn't hurt to pick his brain and talk some shop. :cool

 

[rivergames]

WTF, where did the stripper X GF pic go???????????

 

[rivergames]

I still think it's important to know how much power the engine is making prior to selecting a gear. For example,, Stevo143 runs like 15 lbs of boost or so on E85, so likely his will pull a bigger gear than an engine running pump gas at much lower boost.

Word. How much bigger of a gear can a standard casale case hold without modifying the water jackets?

 

[Sharp Shooter]

WTF, where did the stripper X GF pic go???????????

Sorry dude, that was an early Schiada so I pulled it down.

 

[Sharp Shooter]

Word. How much bigger of a gear can a standard casale case hold without modifying the water jackets?

Don't hold me to this, but I think over 48 you lose the water jackets in a standard case. There are other ways to keep the water though...

 

[Froggystyle]

On the subject of prop size and gear selection, I am running what was in the boat when I got it with a slightly snorty NA big block...

Last time this dynoed, on pump gas and on a mild tune we ran 948 hp at 9 pounds of boost at 5800 rpm and an absolutely linear power curve. We had planned on tuning it for a 6500 top RPM yesterday but couldn't get near 5000 without starting to come into boost and getting jiggy.

We made no boost yesterday to speak of (150kp) and it was just unhinged. It has 12% gears (as derived from the 10.2 turns on one side for 10 turns the other or whatever) and I have bought a set of 40% gears from SteveO that I will be putting in this week.

I have a Cary prop that came out of the Cole, but don't know what it's size is... I will check it out today. I also don't know what size the one is on my boat, I just know it is a three blade.

Thanks guys,

Wes

 

[rivergames]

Sorry dude, that was an early Schiada so I pulled it down.

Sweet pic though. I had a pic of my stripper x gf makin out with her stripper gf on the deck of my schiada. I have no idea where that pic went though :thumbsup

 

[Sharp Shooter]

On the subject of prop size and gear selection, I am running what was in the boat when I got it with a slightly snorty NA big block...

Last time this dynoed, on pump gas and on a mild tune we ran 948 hp at 9 pounds of boost at 5800 rpm and an absolutely linear power curve. We had planned on tuning it for a 6500 top RPM yesterday but couldn't get near 5000 without starting to come into boost and getting jiggy.

We made no boost yesterday to speak of (150kp) and it was just unhinged. It has 12% gears (as derived from the 10.2 turns on one side for 10 turns the other or whatever) and I have bought a set of 40% gears from SteveO that I will be putting in this week.

I have a Cary prop that came out of the Cole, but don't know what it's size is... I will check it out today. I also don't know what size the one is on my boat, I just know it is a three blade.

Thanks guys,

Wes

Those 12 gears need to go. 40 gears will tame the beast and give it some good top speed. Not sure I would use a dragboat prop on a cruiser... maybe AZGEO can chime in on that...

 

[rivergames]

On the subject of prop size and gear selection, I am running what was in the boat when I got it with a slightly snorty NA big block...

Last time this dynoed, on pump gas and on a mild tune we ran 948 hp at 9 pounds of boost at 5800 rpm and an absolutely linear power curve. We had planned on tuning it for a 6500 top RPM yesterday but couldn't get near 5000 without starting to come into boost and getting jiggy.

We made no boost yesterday to speak of (150kp) and it was just unhinged. It has 12% gears (as derived from the 10.2 turns on one side for 10 turns the other or whatever) and I have bought a set of 40% gears from SteveO that I will be putting in this week.

I have a Cary prop that came out of the Cole, but don't know what it's size is... I will check it out today. I also don't know what size the one is on my boat, I just know it is a three blade.

Thanks guys,

Wes

I don't know the condition of the props, but you might want to have them checked. It really sucks when a ear on the prop gets ripped off :grumble:

 

[obnoxious001]

How much bigger of a gear can a standard casale case hold without modifying the water jackets?

Steve will have a better answer to that than I do.

My case was machined but still retained the water jacket, and supposedly a 48 would fit,, I only got up to 45's (505 cubic inches, 15 lbs boost), around 5800 RPM. One of my friends had a Schiada that I built engines for that had 55's in the box, with the water jackets removed and the internal radiator installed. That engine was 555 cubic inches, and later 565 cubic inches with a Richard Lee turbo system with headers, obviously making more power than my engine.

 

[obnoxious001]

On the subject of prop size and gear selection, I am running what was in the boat when I got it with a slightly snorty NA big block...

Last time this dynoed, on pump gas and on a mild tune we ran 948 hp at 9 pounds of boost at 5800 rpm and an absolutely linear power curve. We had planned on tuning it for a 6500 top RPM yesterday but couldn't get near 5000 without starting to come into boost and getting jiggy.

We made no boost yesterday to speak of (150kp) and it was just unhinged. It has 12% gears (as derived from the 10.2 turns on one side for 10 turns the other or whatever) and I have bought a set of 40% gears from SteveO that I will be putting in this week.

I have a Cary prop that came out of the Cole, but don't know what it's size is... I will check it out today. I also don't know what size the one is on my boat, I just know it is a three blade.

Thanks guys,

Wes

I didn't mention before, but boost in a turbo engine is a function of load, so the taller gear will change where you make boost.

Maybe take a look at your prop and see if the size is on it, maybe on the end of the barrel if you don't see it on the barrel between blades.

 

[obnoxious001]

My actual suggestion to Wes via text was "Call prime marine and speak to Mike R. and Mike K." If I had a v-drive cruiser and it had severe handling issues (which it does) that would be call # 1 for me.

RD

That's a good suggestion. If I am not wrong, Mike King rigged a little white 19' Spectra that ran ski races while I was still heavily involved. I recall doing a cam change with the engine in the boat at GT Performance.

I am still thinking that either of the Mikes are going to ask about power, gear and prop up front.

 

[djunkie]

I'm not sure why, but I thought this was an early Schiada/Hallet style hull, but no it's a Spectra.

This one did well at one of the Parker Enduro's owned by the Oliver family. They ran a blower motor and I think they GN raced it too. I would get ahold of Joey Cucci at D' Cucci boats in Havasu and ask Joey for Kelly Oliver's phone number. It couldn't hurt to pick his brain and talk some shop. :cool

Wilkes built that boat i believe. He's be able to answer any questions on it.

 

[footer]

"Nothing, by a long shot is as unhinged as this V-drive."

Best build thread ever. Looking forward to the post about you having the boat dialed and the movie of you holding it WFO into the sunset.

 

[coolchange]

I don't know if you've been in a properly set up boat similar to yours, but maybe you could try to get a ride. My buddy has a Carson TT in a v drive that is an absolute kitten. 550 inches, over 1100 hp. I'll take my family for a ride and blow right thru 85 mph and its all smiles. The boat will run over a buck any day. Granted its a 21 and heavier than yours. I also have a friend that had a 19 that was carbed and he built a tt 502 and put in it. I went for a ride and was seriously considering bailing out at about 80 cause I thought my chances were better to survive. That Carey will do nothing for that boat except maybe be a little safer, not hooked up.

 

[Crazyhippy]

Twin Turbo v-drives are nice, but how do they do compared to production deckboats tied to the dock at foxes?

The first question every Guy asks when buying a boat is "will this boat get me laid?"
-King Ralph
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

 

[460]

Twin Turbo v-drives are nice, but how do they do compared to production deckboats tied to the dock at foxes?

The first question every Guy asks when buying a boat is "will this boat get me laid?"
-King Ralph
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

One would think the intercooler would make a good hand rest.

 

[steveo143]

Wes, you need 40's or 43 gears, generally as big as you can get into a standard Casale case without machining the water jacket. Castings vary over the years due to casting shift etc. and there is no definite answer to what size gear will fit. Get rid of the 3 blade and use the Cary 2 blade. The Cary's were the best prop going back in the day. The 3 blade will cause excessive torque steer in the smaller and lighter 19' footers. Need to know shaft angle also.

 

[Froggystyle]

Wes, you need 40's or 43 gears, generally as big as you can get into a standard Casale case without machining the water jacket. Castings vary over the years due to casting shift etc. and there is no definite answer to what size gear will fit. Get rid of the 3 blade and use the Cary 2 blade. The Cary's were the best prop going back in the day. The 3 blade will cause excessive torque steer in the smaller and lighter 19' footers. Need to know shaft angle also.

Killer. Gonna go swap them right now. I bought that set of 40's from you and haven't installed them yet. Ironically, I thought the boat would be "milder" for tuning with the smaller gears.

Crossing my fingers that the props are the same shaft size now...

With regard to shaft angle, is this simply a matter of putting an angle finder on the keel and one on the shaft, or is it more exotic than that?

Thanks again Steve.

Wes

 

[rivergames]

Killer. Gonna go swap them right now. I bought that set of 40's from you and haven't installed them yet. Ironically, I thought the boat would be "milder" for tuning with the smaller gears.

Crossing my fingers that the props are the same shaft size now...

With regard to shaft angle, is this simply a matter of putting an angle finder on the keel and one on the shaft, or is it more exotic than that?

Thanks again Steve.

Wes

Set the bottom of the boat to 0* with the trailer jack. Then measure the shaft

 

[plaster dave]

If you want I can get you in touch with my buddy who owns the Howard 19' Bad Habits. He and his dad got that thing setup perfect.

 

[Froggystyle]

OK... snag on the gear swap. The big gear that came out of it had a large diameter, small pitch splines inside of it and an adapter piece that also had a spacer on the front of it. Here is a pic of the gear difference...

Bottom line, I think I am gonna need a spacer for the front of this input gear even though I think the thrust is going backwards in the boat. Not positive about that though.

Any thoughts? Here are the gears...

 

[TBI]

Killer. Gonna go swap them right now. I bought that set of 40's from you and haven't installed them yet. Ironically, I thought the boat would be "milder" for tuning with the smaller gears.

Crossing my fingers that the props are the same shaft size now...

With regard to shaft angle, is this simply a matter of putting an angle finder on the keel and one on the shaft, or is it more exotic than that?

Thanks again Steve.

Wes

Sometimes it's stamped on the whip strut

 

[Froggystyle]

OK... now that I'm not working on the V-drive box, I climbed under and checked out the prop. It is a Teague "882" possibly... maybe not There is some corrosion in the middle number. It is an 11 1/2 x 15" three blade.

Driveshaft angle is 8 degrees, on the nose.

 

[Froggystyle]

Some pics of it on the water yesterday...

 

[CampbellCarl]

OK... now that I'm not working on the V-drive box, I climbed under and checked out the prop. It is a Teague "882" possibly... maybe not There is some corrosion in the middle number. It is an 11 1/2 x 15" three blade.

Propshaft angle is 8 degrees, on the nose.

Fixed, lets make sure that we call parts.....parts. The driveshaft runs from the engine or trans to the V-drive. The propshaft runs from the v-drive to the prop.

I'm not smart enough to tell you what to do but I do know that shaft angle, strut barrel to transom or end of cav plates, prop and engine placement are all MAJOR players in boat handling.

The biggest decision you're gonna hafta make is picking the right guy and staying with him. Steveo has a similar boat and engine combo, find out all of the above distances. Start a log book and find others with a Schiada/Spectra/Howard 19' and take measurements from them.

Were it mine, I'd probably seek out Mike or Mike at Prime or Dave Rankin.

Whatever you do, pick one and stay with him. Too many cooks.........you know the rest.

Good luck!

Carl

 

[Froggystyle]

Anyone got SteveO's number?

 

[obnoxious001]

OK... now that I'm not working on the V-drive box, I climbed under and checked out the prop. It is a Teague "882" possibly... maybe not There is some corrosion in the middle number. It is an 11 1/2 x 15" three blade.

Driveshaft angle is 8 degrees, on the nose.

Cool on the prop,, but the next step in your lessons on props is that there are other variables besides the base dimensions that will cause them to make the boat handle differently. I would probably make one change at a time,, so go ahead with the gearbox. Check with Stevo on the spacer, and hopefully he gave you instructions on checking and setting gear lash too (also done with spacers/washers).

You may be able to find someone with a prop you can borrow,, only one I have showed a crack at mag check, so it's a wall decoration now. If you can't find anyone with an appropriate prop to loan,, I think Jim Wilkes has some kind of program, and from what I hear, he makes you try a couple that aren't as good as the "final" one, so that you appreciate "the prop" even more.

You might go to the lake armed with a test prop and prop puller,, test it first with just the gear change and come back to the trailer.

 

[obnoxious001]

Anyone got SteveO's number?

sent

 

[djunkie]

Cool on the prop,, but the next step in your lessons on props is that there are other variables besides the base dimensions that will cause them to make the boat handle differently. I would probably make one change at a time,, so go ahead with the gearbox. Check with Stevo on the spacer, and hopefully he gave you instructions on checking and setting gear lash too (also done with spacers/washers).

You may be able to find someone with a prop you can borrow,, only one I have showed a crack at mag check, so it's a wall decoration now. If you can't find anyone with an appropriate prop to loan,, I think Jim Wilkes has some kind of program, and from what I hear, he makes you try a couple that aren't as good as the "final" one, so that you appreciate "the prop" even more.

You might go to the lake armed with a test prop and prop puller,, test it first with just the gear change and come back to the trailer.

LOL. This is so true.

 

[Froggystyle]

Actually, I don't know if it is a result of cavitation or corrosion, but there are serious pits in the surface of the prop where the ears meet the barrel. The prop will not be making another run in this boat.

 

[obnoxious001]

Actually, I don't know if it is a result of cavitation or corrosion, but there are serious pits in the surface of the prop where the ears meet the barrel. The prop will not be making another run in this boat.

Good call, I broke a strut once pulling a skier for magazine photos,, was a pretty expensive day for me being a nice guy by the time I replaced strut, propshaft, prop, blast plate,, and had the fiberglass repaired.

 

[TBI]

Good call, I broke a strut once pulling a skier for magazine photos,, was a pretty expensive day for me being a nice guy by the time I replaced strut, propshaft, prop, blast plate,, and had the fiberglass repaired.

And if you hadn't pulled a skier that day... those parts would have lasted forever :thumbsup

 

[obnoxious001]

And if you hadn't pulled a skier that day... those parts would have lasted forever :thumbsup

Nah,, just saying it was pretty expensive for me to help a friend get his photos in a magazine.

Boat didn't do anything funny, or take on enough water to sink, but was running about 90 mph on the straights with him, could have been quite a bit worse.

We were required to mag rudders each year to race, and I got my prop done at the same time, but nothing more than visual inspection on the strut.

 

[TBI]

Nah,, just saying it was pretty expensive for me to help a friend get his photos in a magazine.

Boat didn't do anything funny, or take on enough water to sink, but was running about 90 mph on the straights with him, could have been quite a bit worse.

We were required to mag rudders each year to race, and I got my prop done at the same time, but nothing more than visual inspection on the strut.

Just being the smartass I am

That could have been UGLY! I'm glad you're still here to tell the story! :thumbup:

 

[obnoxious001]

Just being the smartass I am

That could have been UGLY! I'm glad you're still here to tell the story! :thumbup:

As much as we checked the things, I still had two rudders break during testing at Elsinore,, much further from the ramp with no one on the lake to tow us back, had to get creative dragging a ski to steer the boat at slow speeds!

It's no fun breaking stuff, and gets expensive, glad he looked at the prop!

 

[Racey]

One would think the intercooler would make a good hand rest.

If they are carbureted they are great hand rests, if they are injected, not so much. :skull

 

[Wicky]

Killer. Gonna go swap them right now. I bought that set of 40's from you and haven't installed them yet. Ironically, I thought the boat would be "milder" for tuning with the smaller gears.

Crossing my fingers that the props are the same shaft size now...

With regard to shaft angle, is this simply a matter of putting an angle finder on the keel and one on the shaft, or is it more exotic than that?

Thanks again Steve.

Wes

Where's RCL when you need him?

 

[steveo143]

Wes, I will call you in the morning after an 8:30 am Dr. appointment to get stitches removed from some skin cancer surgery. The gears that were in it are not 12% over, they are at least 40's. What size is your prop shaft, 1" or 11/8"? I have several diff. props. My number is 714 579-7857

 

[500bbc]

Do NOT just throw new gears in the box without checking everything, including lash. They are not all the same size.
Is your steering cable tight enough? If not the torque steer will be terrible.

 

[Froggystyle]

Wes, I will call you in the morning after an 8:30 am Dr. appointment to get stitches removed from some skin cancer surgery. The gears that were in it are not 12% over, they are at least 40's. What size is your prop shaft, 1" or 11/8"? I have several diff. props. My number is 714 579-7857

Thanks Steve. The gears in the pic are the 40's. The other gears I pulled out are stamped 11.78 or something. When I spun them, they were close to 12% overdriven.

 

[CampbellCarl]

While it was apart, did all of the underwater gear get checked? Now that you've put some serious ponies in it, you'll want to be sure that this doesn't happen.........

 

[Froggystyle]

While it was apart, did all of the underwater gear get checked? Now that you've put some serious ponies in it, you'll want to be sure that this doesn't happen.........

No... it didn't. All of the underwater hardware is flush mounted and bedded with what looks to be Sea Goin' putty. I didn't want to dick around with pulling it out, as it was all really clean and nice looking, except for the prop.

Additionally, the hardware was all chromed, so I am not sure you can inspect it properly with a mag.

In any case, I will likely have to pull the rudder and prop and check them out at least, but the strut may have to wait until after the season.

 

[CampbellCarl]

No... it didn't. All of the underwater hardware is flush mounted and bedded with what looks to be Sea Goin' putty. I didn't want to dick around with pulling it out, as it was all really clean and nice looking, except for the prop.

Additionally, the hardware was all chromed, so I am not sure you can inspect it properly with a mag.

In any case, I will likely have to pull the rudder and prop and check them out at least, but the strut may have to wait until after the season.

Yeah, not good. Chrome covers hairline cracks and makes it impossible to check properly. You don't want to hear this but I'm gonna say it anyway.........it really does need to come out to get stripped and mag'd. Its an older boat and with the added power it does indeed need to be checked.

But what do I know, the above photos were taken just after pulling my kid sister on a ski with her 2 & 4 year old grandkids in the boat. You can see by the second pic that the prop was just about to eat thru the hull, you could see daylite thru the glass........

Carl