Fires 🔥

[DLC]

I had some plumbing work at a job last week and we got talking about the fires ….

How do they get started?

They said arson….

They said Mexico doesnt have these type of fires
They have the same type of terrain …
we haven’t had lightning storms

Any other states or Countries have this type of fire season ?

Do you think a single spark from a trailer safety chain or from an exhaust pipe causes this type of destruction? All at the same time?
And if so why does it happen on windy days
And
Not during summer when its hot & dry
Or
In the desert when its 115 and extremely dry and hot

Are there that many screwed up people that light fires

I dont know !!

I do know management plays a big roll.
As for being green and saving the planet for younger generations. One fire wipes away any forward progress to save the planet …

What say you?

@Gramps
Can you educate an inmate on any of this?

 

[4Waters]

I had some plumbing work at a job last week and we got talking about the fires ….

How do they get started?

They said arson….

They said Mexico doesnt have these type of fires
They have the same type of terrain …
we haven’t had lightning storms

Any other states or Countries have this type of fire season ?

Do you think a single spark from a trailer safety chain or from an exhaust pipe causes this type of destruction? All at the same time?
And if so why does it happen on windy days
And
Not during summer when its hot & dry
Or
In the desert when its 115 and extremely dry and hot

Are there that many screwed up people that light fires

I dont know !!

I do know management plays a big roll.
As for being green and saving the planet for younger generations. One fire wipes away any forward progress to save the planet …

What say you?

@Gramps
Can you educate an inmate on any of this?

Mexico also has better power distribution systems, theirs don't start fires

 

[HTTP404]

One Aloha Snackbar on an e-bike.

 

[SLT Kota]

I've always wondered how many get started by the large homeless population....

 

[hallett21]

I’d say 90% are arson or homeless.

 

[socal0487]

85-90% are human caused. Could be anything from trailer chain, faulty catalytic converter, vehicle fire, utility company, cigarette and arson.
The 10-15% are natural causing. Lightning, anomalies, etc. lightning more so Northern California and there is an anomaly in Fillmore that starts fire on occasion.

I would say most are categorized as accidental as opposed to arson

 

[Gramps]

IMHO these fires are started by:
Lightening (not this time)
Power line issues in the wind
Human accidental start - chains dragging, welding or cutting when or where you shouldn't ben cat converter parked in the weeds

OR

ARSON

 

[DarkHorseRacing]

IMHO these fires are started by:
Lightening (not this time)
Power line issues in the wind
Human accidental start - chains dragging, welding or cutting when or where you shouldn't ben cat converter parked in the weeds

OR

ARSON

Don't forget the moron city workers that started rhe OC fire by moving boulders during fire conditions with heavy equipment.

 

[EmpirE231]

1. CA is a failed state
2. I think some of these were Arson and we are seeing some copy cat activity. These bums have nothing to lose.

 

[Caydens Cat]

I posted this in another thread but I’ll say it again here. In the last week I’ve seen smoke from three different fires from my house in San Diego. All within a ten mile radius? Poway a couple days ago, Rancho Bernardo today, and another last week east of Scripps Ranch ( I think it’s unincorporated/open area out there )

That is not natural.

 

[DLC]

I posted this in another thread but I’ll say it again here. In the last week I’ve seen smoke from three different fires from my house in San Diego. All within a ten mile radius? Poway a couple days ago, Rancho Bernardo today, and another last week east of Scripps Ranch ( I think it’s unincorporated/open area out there )

That is not natural.

Im right there with you with ya in SE Escondido…

I think there are a bunch of sick -O’s dirt bags that like fire

 

[evantwheeler]

We got through the New Year fire work jackasses without any significant fires that I am aware of. I am awfully suspicious with the frequency and number of fires in the last 2 weeks. Two thoughts;

1. If a majority are arson, they do not seem to be coordinated, thankfully. If they were, I would expect there would be WAY more and spread out throughout all SoCal Counties and started simultaneously.

2. CA needs to double or triple the amount of $$ spent on standby equipment & personnel to react to these fires. Take the money from the homeless budgets and protect the people that pay property taxes.

 

[dspracing]

I always joke that it’s seasonal. Get a nice burn now rack up that OT for boat gas and slide one in September-October for Christmas money.

 

[CoolCruzin]

2. CA needs to double or triple the amount of $$ spent on standby equipment & personnel to react to these fires. Take the money from the homeless budgets and protect the people that pay property taxes.

Right on

 

[DLC]

I always joke that it’s seasonal. Get a nice burn now rack up that OT for boat gas and slide one in September-October for Christmas money.

My old neighbor was a Cal Fire captain

He said he can double his annual salary w/ a few fires and the OT
This was 10 plus years ago

He retired and moved out of state

 

[counterpart7]

Times are getting tough… maybe a few fire fighters are desperate for OT

 

[JayBreww]

My old neighbor was a Cal Fire captain

He said he can double his annual salary w/ a few fires and the OT
This was 10 plus years ago

He retired and moved out of state

Sometimes we can triple our monthly salary in OT.

 

[4Waters]

Times are getting tough… maybe a few fire fighters are desperate for OT

The guys that did that were seasonal FF's, I don't think there is such a thing anymore. @JayBreww could probably answer that

 

[JayBreww]

The guys that did that were seasonal FF's, I don't think there is such a thing anymore. @JayBreww could probably answer that

A few years ago there was a Redlands Reserve that started a few in Yucaipa/Redlands area.
Haven’t heard of any others since.

Edit: Also the large majority of seasonal FF’s get laid off in December and don’t come back on till March-April.
Bluesome gave his blessing to emergency rehire most of those just laid off last month, with start dates Monday.

 

[4Waters]

A few years ago there was a Redlands Reserve that started a few in Yucaipa/Redlands area.
Haven’t heard of any others since.

Are there seasonal positions still

 

[JayBreww]

Are there seasonal positions still

Believe it’s around 4,000 seasonal FF’s.
With the reduction of the CDCR hand crews (inmates), they’ve been replaced by seasonals, significantly increasing the seasonal workforce.

 

[4Waters]

Believe it’s around 4,000 seasonal FF’s.
With the reduction of the CDCR hand crews (inmates), they’ve been replaced by seasonals, significantly increasing the seasonal workforce.

So there are still seasonal positions, the season is just a lot longer now

 

[JayBreww]

So there are still seasonal positions, the season is just a lot longer now

It ends December 31 and starts again on January 1.

 

[Meaney77]

Its crazy the amount of fires we have experienced this season. The conspiracy side of my brain cant help but think these were well-thought-out attacks.

Camarillo Fires in November- Still no mention of how they started, and the areas that went up in flames were relatively expensive ranch-type homes in the foothills. Lots of money/old money homes.
All of the other recent fires- Malibu, Arcadia, Pasadena, Santa Clarita, and others seemed to target wealthy neighborhoods or around wealthy neighborhoods surrounded by lots of dry brush.
I could be totally wrong; maybe it is utility providers and homeless people.

 

[4Waters]

It ends December 31 and starts again on January 1.

Pretty much. I remember the seasonal guys were on May to Oct-ish (that was 25yrs ago), now the slow season is Feb and March but can be busy if shit goes sideways

 

[Backlash]

I told my wife last night that there's an easy and permanent solution to these fires.

If someone is seen igniting a fire, such as we've seen countless times during the last few weeks, there should be a green light for removing them from society right there on the spot. No arrests. No hearings. No trials. No bullshit weak-ass plea deals.

You let this happen and broadcast these incidents via mainstream media and you can bet your ass people will stop doing this shit.

When I voiced my solution, she rolled her eyes and laughed. She reminded me "You know we're in California, right?"

 

[EmpirE231]

One thing these fires have proven is our methods of firefighting are ineffective and outdated. I definitely don’t see the need for more firefighters. It is time for an overhaul / reevaluation of how firefighting is done.

CA also needs to pull its head out of its ass on the brush clearance problems and it’s water shortage problems and it’s homeless problems… and… the list goes on.

 

[Gramps]

One thing these fires have proven is our methods of firefighting are ineffective and outdated. I definitely don’t see the need for more firefighters. It is time for an overhaul / reevaluation of how firefighting is done.

CA also needs to pull its head out of its ass on the brush clearance problems and it’s water shortage problems and it’s homeless problems… and… the list goes on.

what methods would you change? and wht would you change them to???????

 

[Mandelon]

Arson seems likely but not a coordinated attack. It was mentioned earlier that these fires would be a good way to really mess with the state. I would think a more aggressive coordinated approach would be implemented. Like dozens of illegal terrorists all lighting fires all day for weeks on end until the state was ablaze from border to border thus overwhelming our firefighters abilities to respond.

Go Elgses!

 

[scottchbrite]

Times are getting tough… maybe a few fire fighters are desperate for OT

Let me say this again, WE DONT NEED MORE OVERTIME!!!
Over a decade of staffing shortage, increases in stations/apparatus to fill because of population increases, call volume increases, etc. has led to an increase in forced overtime.
A majority, if not all of these fires are arson. I run a shit ton of small fires started by homeless people Cooking, warming, or fighting. In my district, We have a known homeless female that has an issue burning random stuff. Often, Arson is difficult to prove. Obviously, there could be the fireman arsonist because he loves fire, not because of money.
For instance, We had a 3 alarm commercial fire last week that was believed to be a homeless encampment built along the fence of the building Which was a cabinet shop. It extended into the building and destroyed 2 businesses. The investigators probably wont be able to make an arrest in that fire. But The next day they arrested an ex felon, most likely homeless, for starting a 50 acre veg fire in our city because of the public’s help.
As the public becomes less tolerant of the homeless/lawless/mentally insane and starts trying to move them from the streets and parks, or “public view”, it drives them out to these more fire prone areas (Foothills and river bottoms).
Prevention measures, homeless issues, and actual prosecution needs to happen to curb this.

 

[hallett21]

We have a brush and forestry mismanagement issue that’s been going on for over 100 years (CA more than most states).

Rather than maintain the brush we (government and some citizens) have villainized the natural cycle of fires. And now we’ve built a multi billion dollar industry around fighting the fires.

To be clear I support all of the fire fighters on the ground and in the air. But you can’t let brush, grass and trees grow for 20-100 years with no maintenance and expect it to not turn into an inferno when it does light off.

At the end of the day the ignition source of a fire doesn’t really matter.

 

[socal0487]

One thing these fires have proven is our methods of firefighting are ineffective and outdated. I definitely don’t see the need for more firefighters. It is time for an overhaul / reevaluation of how firefighting is done.

CA also needs to pull its head out of its ass on the brush clearance problems and it’s water shortage problems and it’s homeless problems… and… the list goes on.

What kind of overhaul/reevaluation of how firefighting is done?

 

[4Waters]

One thing these fires have proven is our methods of firefighting are ineffective and outdated. I definitely don’t see the need for more firefighters. It is time for an overhaul / reevaluation of how firefighting is done.

CA also needs to pull its head out of its ass on the brush clearance problems and it’s water shortage problems and it’s homeless problems… and… the list goes on.

You put the wet stuff on the red stuff

 

[CLdrinker]

You put the wet stuff on the red stuff

Well I guess I can agree with you on some things.

 

[EmpirE231]

what methods would you change? and wht would you change them to???????

What kind of overhaul/reevaluation of how firefighting is done?

well fighting fires isn't my paid gig... so I really shouldn't be the one with the answers.... but if I had to take a swing at it....

#1 make sure reservoirs that feed fire hydrants and sprinkler systems have sufficient capacity during peak fire season
#2 be proactive...... these winds were predicted way in advance, we have had no rain... it was a ripe scenario for brush / wind driven fire. Crews and trucks should have been placed in high risk areas before any fire began.... sort of like patrols.... so that in the case of a fire that is 1 acre in size, there is no need to wait for the call to come in to a station, by the time the truck gets there it is at 20 acres and by the time they roll out the hose and do their safety checks and start spraying water we are now at 100 acres and the battle is lost / the pacific palisades (insert other towns / cities) is lost)
#3 Planes / helicopters / air resources for fighting fires should be stocked and at the ready with pilots at the hangars during these peak wind / prime dry conditions for fire risk, so that we can be getting active drops in less that 10 minutes


the list can go on... I think they have the single structure fire / vehicle fire down to a science and are good at handling that. But in every case where there has been any brush or multiple structures burning it has turned into a complete shit show. waiting for trucks to show up from the station on a windy brush fire day is like fighting trench style warfare in modern day war.

my #1 blame falls on the state though... this amount of brush should not exist, this amount of homelessness should not exist, this amount of crime should not exist... but here we are in a failed state.

My question to you guys.... do you think we should just keep doing it the same way?

 

[lbhsbz]

well fighting fires isn't my paid gig... so I really shouldn't be the one with the answers.... but if I had to take a swing at it....

#1 make sure reservoirs that feed fire hydrants and sprinkler systems have sufficient capacity during peak fire season
#2 be proactive...... these winds were predicted way in advance, we have had no rain... it was a ripe scenario for brush / wind driven fire. Crews and trucks should have been placed in high risk areas before any fire began.... sort of like patrols.... so that in the case of a fire that is 1 acre in size, there is no need to wait for the call to come in to a station, by the time the truck gets there it is at 20 acres and by the time they roll out the hose and do their safety checks and start spraying water we are now at 100 acres and the battle is lost / the pacific palisades (insert other towns / cities) is lost)
#3 Planes / helicopters / air resources for fighting fires should be stocked and at the ready with pilots at the hangars during these peak wind / prime dry conditions for fire risk, so that we can be getting active drops in less that 10 minutes


the list can go on... I think they have the single structure fire / vehicle fire down to a science and are good at handling that. But in every case where there has been any brush or multiple structures burning it has turned into a complete shit show. waiting for trucks to show up from the station on a windy brush fire day is like fighting trench style warfare in modern day war.

my #1 blame falls on the state though... this amount of brush should not exist, this amount of homelessness should not exist, this amount of crime should not exist... but here we are in a failed state.

My question to you guys.... do you think we should just keep doing it the same way?

by that logic, we should also have a cop stationed on every block of every street keeping an eye out for people breaking into cars and stealing them, since it happens so often (more often than fires). But, that would be silly and simply isn't possible. How many more trucks/firefighters do you think they'd need to adequately patrol so that they could put out spot fires before they grow too much? A lot more than anyone is willing to pay for.

 

[EmpirE231]

by that logic, we should also have a cop stationed on every block of every street keeping an eye out for people breaking into cars and stealing them, since it happens so often (more often than fires). But, that would be silly and simply isn't possible. How many more trucks/firefighters do you think they'd need to adequately patrol so that they could put out spot fires before they grow too much? A lot more than anyone is willing to pay for.

yeah remember when cops actually did active patrols and we had a lot less crime and homeless people everywhere? weren't you just complaining about your stuff getting stolen and how the cops don't even respond? you actually have to proactively fight crime in order to prevent or deter it.

Are you saying they (firefighters) should just hang out at the station and wait for calls during peak fire risk winds? I am not saying lets stage them everywhere & all the time... but on some of these forecasted strong wind days, especially when we have had no rain, they should be being more proactive in high risk areas. The stations are staffed 24hrs a day.

fighting a fire quickly while it is small and you have a chance at winning.... the bigger it gets and the longer it takes to fight it, the more likely chance your city ends up being like the palisades or like Paradise or Lahaina etc

 

[Gramps]

well fighting fires isn't my paid gig... so I really shouldn't be the one with the answers.... but if I had to take a swing at it....

#1 make sure reservoirs that feed fire hydrants and sprinkler systems have sufficient capacity during peak fire season
#2 be proactive...... these winds were predicted way in advance, we have had no rain... it was a ripe scenario for brush / wind driven fire. Crews and trucks should have been placed in high risk areas before any fire began.... sort of like patrols.... so that in the case of a fire that is 1 acre in size, there is no need to wait for the call to come in to a station, by the time the truck gets there it is at 20 acres and by the time they roll out the hose and do their safety checks and start spraying water we are now at 100 acres and the battle is lost / the pacific palisades (insert other towns / cities) is lost)
#3 Planes / helicopters / air resources for fighting fires should be stocked and at the ready with pilots at the hangars during these peak wind / prime dry conditions for fire risk, so that we can be getting active drops in less that 10 minutes


the list can go on... I think they have the single structure fire / vehicle fire down to a science and are good at handling that. But in every case where there has been any brush or multiple structures burning it has turned into a complete shit show. waiting for trucks to show up from the station on a windy brush fire day is like fighting trench style warfare in modern day war.

my #1 blame falls on the state though... this amount of brush should not exist, this amount of homelessness should not exist, this amount of crime should not exist... but here we are in a failed state.

My question to you guys.... do you think we should just keep doing it the same way?

You aren't changing methods of firefighting, your changes are more of a prevention measure in #1....#2 and #3 are pretty much how we have done things for many years

 

[Taboma]

After observing these past three weeks of back to back Santa Ana winds, our 'Achille's heal' in rapidly slowing or stopping these fire starts, isn't the initial response time from the staged hand crews getting on scene. It's the inability to stage an adequate aerial assault with large capacity retardant dropping aircraft due to excessive wind conditions.
Until I read a great article written by a veteran air tanker pilot, I had no realization of the extreme perils the wind presents at the low altitudes required for the drops to be survivable and effective.
So with extreme wind, we lose an extremely critical tool.
Thankfully, in most cases we've still had helicopters dropping water, and now more than in the past, we've got more of them with the ability to work at night.
What we need are a fleet of "Super Helicopters", like the Russian Mil-Mi 26, (44,000 lb Cap) with equipment it can carry about 3,000 gallons of Phos-chek, or our own CH-53K King Stallion with 36K capacity or maybe 2,500 gallons -- If you figure the Calfire's S-2T Tankers carry about 1,200 gallons, those would surely help, especially when the fixed wing can't fly.

 

[Neverbowdown]

Believe it’s around 4,000 seasonal FF’s.
With the reduction of the CDCR hand crews (inmates), they’ve been replaced by seasonals, significantly increasing the seasonal workforce.

And the cost to tax-payers

 

[TPC]

Just like the past episode, Power is out for a good 3 mile radius around our house except our block.
Lot's of Edison Line men live on our street.

 

[JayBreww]

And the cost to tax-payers

Sure. Cost of doing business? You gunna volunteer to do a 24 hour shift cutting brush and humpin hose up a hill to mop up these fires?

 

[evantwheeler]

What kind of overhaul/reevaluation of how firefighting is done?

The one thing I took away from the Shawn Ryan podcast with Tim Sheehy recently is that there are apparently additives that you can use with water that make it 5x more effective at fighting fires but we aren't allowed to use it here in the US due to environmental concerns? This would come into play with fire fighting aircraft dropping water from above.... I didn't do a deep dive into researching if what he said was true, but I have spent some time around a water treatment plant equipment manufacturer and know that very small amounts of flocculant can have a crazy effect on removing suspended solids from water so I would not be surprised at all if there are additives that do greatly help the effectiveness of water while fighting fire from above. Tim is a politician out of Montana, and he sure did talk like a politician on many topics, but he was the CEO of an aviation company that contracts for aerial fire fighting services prior to becoming a politician, so I would expect him to know that industry very well.

 

[4Waters]

Sure. Cost of doing business? You gunna volunteer to do a 24 hour shift cutting brush and humpin hose up a hill to mop up these fires?

Scratchin dirt is hard work

 

[HTTP404]

Scratchin dirt is hard work

Inmates should keep doing it. Good work for them.

 

[sdpm]

After observing these past three weeks of back to back Santa Ana winds, our 'Achille's heal' in rapidly slowing or stopping these fire starts, isn't the initial response time from the staged hand crews getting on scene. It's the inability to stage an adequate aerial assault with large capacity retardant dropping aircraft due to excessive wind conditions.
Until I read a great article written by a veteran air tanker pilot, I had no realization of the extreme perils the wind presents at the low altitudes required for the drops to be survivable and effective.
So with extreme wind, we lose an extremely critical tool.
Thankfully, in most cases we've still had helicopters dropping water, and now more than in the past, we've got more of them with the ability to work at night.
What we need are a fleet of "Super Helicopters", like the Russian Mil-Mi 26, (44,000 lb Cap) with equipment it can carry about 3,000 gallons of Phos-chek, or our own CH-53K King Stallion with 36K capacity or maybe 2,500 gallons -- If you figure the Calfire's S-2T Tankers carry about 1,200 gallons, those would surely help, especially when the fixed wing can't fly.

Why do the drops need to be at a low altitude? I asked this question at a fire science meeting for Fed Fire years ago. I threw out my idea of higher altitude retardant dropping similar to military carpet bombing. Retardant stored in a bladder type container that would open at a predetermined altitude. Flying above the smoke and at night could be done much safer.
Another option I put out there was “ why not use our military aircraft?” I was told that communication would not work with other air assets or ground crews. I asked why couldn’t they be trained to work together and never got a clear straight response.
Believe when I say that it can work and could be done.

 

[JayBreww]

Inmates should keep doing it. Good work for them.

%100.
Unfortunately covid and early release of low level offenders ruined that.

 

[Luvnlife]

Call me a conspiracy person buuuuttttt, word has it that they are calling it arson but it’s terrorist acts. According the Sarah Adams, code name Superbad, look it up, more than 1000 highly trained Al quida and isis fighters have entered through the southern border. They know this cripples Southern California when wild fires break out. More importantly taking up all the resources. Bad things coming, these are dry runs.

 

[HTTP404]

Call me a conspiracy person buuuuttttt, word has it that they are calling it arson but it’s terrorist acts. According the Sarah Adams, code name Superbad, look it up, more than 1000 highly trained Al quida and isis fighters have entered through the southern border. They know this cripples Southern California when wild fires break out. More importantly taking up all the resources. Bad things coming, these are dry runs.

Or China. Who knows how many pyros we welcomed into our country in the last 4 years.

 

[scottchbrite]

well fighting fires isn't my paid gig... so I really shouldn't be the one with the answers.... but if I had to take a swing at it....

#1 make sure reservoirs that feed fire hydrants and sprinkler systems have sufficient capacity during peak fire season
#2 be proactive...... these winds were predicted way in advance, we have had no rain... it was a ripe scenario for brush / wind driven fire. Crews and trucks should have been placed in high risk areas before any fire began.... sort of like patrols.... so that in the case of a fire that is 1 acre in size, there is no need to wait for the call to come in to a station, by the time the truck gets there it is at 20 acres and by the time they roll out the hose and do their safety checks and start spraying water we are now at 100 acres and the battle is lost / the pacific palisades (insert other towns / cities) is lost)
#3 Planes / helicopters / air resources for fighting fires should be stocked and at the ready with pilots at the hangars during these peak wind / prime dry conditions for fire risk, so that we can be getting active drops in less that 10 minutes


the list can go on... I think they have the single structure fire / vehicle fire down to a science and are good at handling that. But in every case where there has been any brush or multiple structures burning it has turned into a complete shit show. waiting for trucks to show up from the station on a windy brush fire day is like fighting trench style warfare in modern day war.

my #1 blame falls on the state though... this amount of brush should not exist, this amount of homelessness should not exist, this amount of crime should not exist... but here we are in a failed state.

My question to you guys.... do you think we should just keep doing it the same way?

You’re not wrong on any of this per se.
1- The water system is not a FD area of responsibility, usually. Water supply issues happen frequently, you just don’t hear of them. Large veg fires, water supply is not usually counted on. On our said 3 alarm commercial fire I spoke of earlier, we had rocks, asphalt, and glass jam the pump intake of the first due engine. This caused a delay in getting a supply to the next engine, and damaged 2 fire engines and equipment including a $50k cardiac monitor. Thankfully, the water supply issues didn’t play a part in the rapid fire growth this time. We all face aging infrastructure (water systems) that aren’t capable for our rapidly expanding population.

2- I don’t know what LA City did, but I know LA County does up staff for such events. We do too. It’s hard to commit people and resources, also not over commit and leave other areas vulnerable. Everyday calls still happen on top of these large scale incidents that make the news. There are CalOES units that our super awesome governor controls. They finally pre positioned a strike team in our county in glen helen well after the big fires started. Also, there’s a lack of funding and staffing at state and federal levels. The Feds (Forest Service) isnt fully staffed due to winter schedule and a complete shit show right now anyway. Rumor has it, we may start staffing USFS stations because they can’t. If that happens, look out CalFire because we’ll be going after the state response areas next.

3- aircraft is really a specialty under the fire department. I can’t really comment much about it other than it’s an enormous cost. LA county and CalFire are really aggressive when it comes to air ops. Aviation is evolving slowly. Until recently, they didn’t fly at night. Weather is a huge factor too. Military aircraft outfitted for our missions is becoming the new norm (Blackhawks amd C130s). Realistically, the Feds and state are the the ones with the deep pockets to fund such programs.

In the end, some houses and areas aren't defendable. If the homeowner doesn’t do their work, it severely impacts our ability to protect it. Add the lack of fuels reduction from the wild land, and disaster is eminent.