Finicum Shooting video inside vehicle

[Outdrive1]

Dave you're all sound up about two different issues. These guys made an armed camp out of a government building. Why they did it is irrelevant and the way they did it was completely wrong.

 

[rivrrts429]

Ah what the fuck do I know.. People I consider to be reasonable and normal are saying you just surrender at every opportunity.. And half the country is contemplating voting for a career criminal with no accomplishments, or a flat out admitted socialist.. I think I'm losing touch with reality.. Lol. Because this seems so bizarre to me I feel like I landed in the twilight zone.

Which is why I said the posters need to look at the whole picture to even remotely understand how they got to this point.

The ending only tells a tiny fraction of what really happened. Some of these people post with conservative leaning views yet crucify these people when they stand up for said rights.

Nobody disagrees that the farmers fucked up in the end. But we can agree that the government absolutely fucked up and should share equally in the blame of how it ended. Then for the Fed's to try and cover up the shots fired is scary.

Law enforcement is split on how the Fed's reacted. They're not unified. That should tell you something is up.

I don't like how the farmers ended it but it's not difficult to see how good people can snap in this situation.

This is the same government who wrongfully crucified law enforcement in Ferguson and added fuel to the disaster in Baltimore. They also were the direct result of getting one of their own officers killed by getting into a gun running scheme aka Fast N Furious. They are not on the citizens side. We need to be careful of who we're supporting here.

 

[Go-Fly]

Ah what the fuck do I know.. People I consider to be reasonable and normal are saying you just surrender at every opportunity.. And half the country is contemplating voting for a career criminal with no accomplishments, or a flat out admitted socialist.. I think I'm losing touch with reality.. Lol. Because this seems so bizarre to me I feel like I landed in the twilight zone.

I can answer one of your questions about the BLM. Going to land use meeting since 1984, I can tell you, we the people turned our land use over to the nut cases who want to dance through the trees and fields chasing butterflys. Only until it is all done and said do people get involved and want change. Yes everyone works all day and doesn't have time to go to meeting during the day. Even if you had time you wouldn't go, no one cares. Now that it is done you have to use the court system to correct it. That is the price you pay for non-action on the front end. Our founding fathers used guns because they had too. They gave us a court system so we wouldn't have to. Just like a gun fight, a court has a winner and a loser. Someone is unhappy with the outcome. Every day someone gets their house condemned, are forced to move and most of the time it ends up costing the family money, so a road can go through. Only that family cares about land use at that moment, the rest of us are glad they are moving. The farmers could of stopped the wildlife refuge from the start. Instead they did nothing and came out on the losing end. Sad part was, they were in the right, still are and can still win in a court of law. Going to be all up hill from here on out and a year from now, no one will care.

 

[RiverDave]

Dave you're all sound up about two different issues. These guys made an armed camp out of a government building. Why they did it is irrelevant and the way they did it was completely wrong.

Paul you really think these guys went down to that refuge armed to the teeth with every weapon they had in the arsenal ready to have a full on conflict with the government? Or do you think they went down there with some weapons so that the cops / feds etc... Didn't just walk in there and bulldoze right over them?

If it wasn't for the fact they were armed, it wouldn't have even made a headline, because it wouldn't have lasted more then 2 hours when they were all in jail. The fact that it lasted any time frame at all stems from the fact that they said "Hey we are here to say something, and if you try to just come in to prevent us from saying it, then yes we are prepared to defend ourselves." Where they completely fucked up is they were totally unprepared to be there for any length of time, and they were totally unprepared to actually say what they had to say.. They had no clear objective or goal other then "We just need this to stop" no resolution to the problem.. Then the other buffoons that showed up and put more or less "revolution" bullshit all over social media made things horrendously worse.

I can answer one of your questions about the BLM. Going to land use meeting since 1984, I can tell you, we the people turned our land use over to the nut cases who want to dance through the trees and fields chasing butterflys. Only until it is all done and said do people get involved and want change. Yes everyone works all day and doesn't have time to go to meeting during the day. Even if you had time you wouldn't go, no one cares. Now that it is done you have to use the court system to correct it. That is the price you pay for non-action on the front end. Our founding fathers used guns because they had too. They gave us a court system so we wouldn't have to. Just like a gun fight, a court has a winner and a loser. Someone is unhappy with the outcome. Every day someone gets their house condemned, are forced to move and most of the time it ends up costing the family money, so a road can go through. Only that family cares about land use at that moment, the rest of us are glad they are moving. The farmers could of stopped the wildlife refuge from the start. Instead they did nothing and came out on the losing end. Sad part was, they were in the right, still are and can still win in a court of law. Going to be all up hill from here on out and a year from now, no one will care.

Nobody cares right up until somebody does.. Then all of a sudden you have a nightmare on your hands. Case in Point Timothy McVeigh / Oklahoma City. Nobody I know gave a shit about David Koresh and his whack job disciples.. Except the Federal Government did somethings there that weren't exactly by the book. Some constitutional rights were violated. A lot of people were killed with a heavy hand.. Then all of a sudden one guy cared an awful lot about those rights and "Boom."

I dunno about you, but I'm all for a little restraint on the Feds, before someone like that resurfaces again.. It would be foolish to think there aren't already people out there in those survivalist camps, jerking off to that guys photo, and watching this thing unfold that aren't already considering it.


RD

 

[DaveC]

Well said RD:thumbup:

This whole deal was nothing more than some BS agenda by the Feds. (BLM and DOJ to start)

Something I wanted to mention earlier because this has less to do with the law enforcement personnel on the ground and more about those in charge.

I think the officers involved, while following their superior's orders, did an excellent job of taking down someone who should NOT have been arrested in the first place :thumbup:

 

[jpwaverider]

Ambush! They were going to kill this man one way or another and do the best they can covering it up. They took 3 shots at him before he even got out of the truck (mirror, windshield, one barely missed his head). This man was sick of the tyranny of his constitutional rights , just like all of us should be. He did not physically or verbally really seem threatening in anyway, please watch the Oregonian clips. Saddam, Obama and Gaddafi have nothing on what the feds have accomplished to benefit from on the down low, (my opinion). This used to be the land of the free the home of the brave, but its now become a federal country and we are parasites.

[video=youtube;kmaJkt-pyqc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmaJkt-pyqc[/video]

 

[RiverDave]

Ambush! They were going to kill this man one way or another and do the best they can covering it up. They took 3 shots at him before he even got out of the truck (mirror, windshield, one barely missed his head). This man was sick of the tyranny of his constitutional rights , just like all of us should be. He did not physically or verbally really seem threatening in anyway, please watch the Oregonian clips. Saddam, Obama and Gaddafi have nothing on what the feds have accomplished to benefit from on the down low, (my opinion). This used to be the land of the free the home of the brave, but its now become a federal country and we are parasites.

[video=youtube;kmaJkt-pyqc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmaJkt-pyqc[/video]

I agree they wanted this guy dead, and they wanted Ryan Bundy (whom also in the truck) dead as well.

Interview with Mel Bundy.. (Really Interesting)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxK07Pd9Xos#t=125.969711


There's so much shit on this thing going all the way back to the Stand off at Bundy's ranch it's almost overwhelming.. The put warrants on the people that stood with Bundy.. They charged Cliven Bundy with all kinds of bullshit charges from that incident (even though nothing happened?) It's nothing but sheer insanity at this point..

The fact that people are not more aggrevated by this shows how much Go Fly is right.. People just do not care unless it happens to them?
RD

 

[RiverDave]

Spend 23-25 minutes and listen to what this man had to say.. Because you'd be surprised to know he wasn't some whack job and it's really easy to understand how this came about, and who's actually in the right and who isn't.

You can skip the first 4 minutes unless you just want to hear more of what he has to say..

[video=youtube;QpJWSQo9sO8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpJWSQo9sO8[/video]


RD

 

[ParkerRat]

The fact that people are not more aggrevated by this shows how much Go Fly is right.. People just do not care unless it happens to them?
RD

I think there are a hell of a lot of people who are real aggravated by this and Bundy Ranch and everything else going on right now. That's what scares me. I think there are a whole lot of people giving this election one more shot to see change. I may be wrong but if this one goes down the shitter like the last few and we end up with another Elite Statist in the whitehouse you will see a hell of a lot more of this. Bundy Ranch was organic and had the Feds scared. The Refuge was different because most people felt they picked a fight they couldn?t win and were not smart about what and how they did it. Had it been another Bundy Ranch in my opinion it would have also gone organic and a hell of a lot more people would have gone. That is why the Feds issued a shitload of Warrants after this for all those who played significant roles in both Bundy Ranch and the Refuge. they are trying to scare the people who would want to pick up and go to the next one. I think truthfully they are strengthening peoples resolve though and there are a hell of a lot of people that can now see this is not going to get better before it gets a lot worse and more blood will be spilled. Hopefully I'm wrong for the Nations sake but thats my take on it.

 

[rivermobster]

Joe I'm glad you brought up that example.. Because you consider that a victory, and I look at it as a total loss.. Where was the consequence? What was the reaction to the action?

What happened to the guy that was in your words the "lying sack of shit?" Did anything happen to them for falsifying environmental reports? Joe Q Public was unable to use their own land for how many years? Was the ASA reimbursed all of the money that was raised and spent to fight that in court? Was the lying sack of shit or the environmental groups that supported that forced to pay the estimated fees that would have been collected? (Which brings up another cluster fuck.. of why do we even have to pay fees to use our own fucking land for recreational purposes that aren't harming anyone?)

What if any were any consequences to the action? What you are suggesting and are ok with goes against a basic "absolute" in Science/Nature/etc.. For every action there is a reaction. Where is the reaction in this scenario?

RD

Well let's see...

I'm going to assume a few things here, cause your questions are rather vague.

The consequence for Danny boy? You live in AZ, how come you don't know all this??? He wormed his way into AZ politics for awhile, and then was thrown out on his ear. The guy if a fucking nut job, just like the clowns that were arrested in the Oregon confrontation. But on the other side of the proverbial "fence". As of today, I don't know Exactly where Danny boy is, but last I heard, his wife left him too. Pretty sure the CBD dumped him as well. He is probably working at McDonalds somewhere, trying to get his 15.00 minimum wage. So the consequence for him, is he has pretty much lost everything. He has no credibility at all anymore. No one will listen to him. The reaction? Well by me, it's FUCK HIM!!! lol Couldn't of happened to a nicer guy.

The ASA lives off donations from guys like me, TPC, Robbie and all kinna other guys on this board. I don't expect to be reimbursed. I am happy justice is slowly being restored.

Back in those days, no fees were being collected at Glamis. The fee system, only came about recently.

Why do we pay those fees? Most of money goes to trash collection. You see, not everyone lives by the "leave no trace" principals that some of us actually go by. The fucktards will leave there trash all over that place!! My friend Tim Gantz, had to have shoulder surgery, from trying to retrieve a couch some assholes left out in the dunes. Glamis would look like a fucking junk yard, if not for those fees, and the people that help keep it clean.

The reaction to the reopening of the dunes in many places is overwhelming happiness by the off-road community.

The reaction to the reopening of the dunes in many places is pure frustration by the enviro nuts.

The are learning they can't be taken seriously anymore. The Forest Service and the BLM are totally on top of them now. They carry much less weight than they used to, but are still a dangerous bunch.

In fact...............................................

I did some homework on this whole Oregon issue, and I'm pretty sure the CBD was behind this issue as well. They were the ones that got the ranchers cattle lines cut off. They forced the hand of the BLM, and there was nothing the BLM could do about it. They had to carry out the courts orders.

I spend most of my lunch hour reading this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Malheur_National_Wildlife_Refuge

I read every word of it, and now I am even MORE convinced the whole thing in Oregon was a joke. They guy that got shot was the ONLY rancher involved!!! Everyone else in the takeover were nutjobs from outa state. The cattlemans association condemned their actions. The ocoupiers were all a bunch fuck heads.

You should do a little more homework before you jump on your soap box again RD...

Ammon Bundy?a former car fleet manager from Phoenix, Arizona,[SUP][18][/SUP] son of anti-government protester Cliven D. Bundy, and the leader of the group now calling themselves Citizens for Constitutional Freedom?said he began leading the occupation after receiving a divine message ordering him to do so.[SUP][19][/SUP][SUP][20][/SUP] The militant group demanded that the federal government of the United States cede ownership of the refuge,[SUP][21][/SUP] and expressed willingness to engage in armed conflict.[SUP][22][/SUP] For a time, the government and police did not engage directly with the militia.[SUP][23][/SUP] The two ranchers on whose behalf the militants were ostensibly acting disavowed the occupation of the refuge.[SUP][24][/SUP]

You should read the whole article before you say Anything else Dave, and stop embarrassing yourself! It's the EXACT same thing that happened in Glamis, at least until the militant nut jobs got involved.

Have fun with your rants.

 

[RiverDave]

Well let's see...

I'm going to assume a few things here, cause your questions are rather vague.

The consequence for Danny boy? You live in AZ, how come you don't know all this??? He wormed his way into AZ politics for awhile, and then was thrown out on his ear. The guy if a fucking nut job, just like the clowns that were arrested in the Oregon confrontation. But on the other side of the proverbial "fence". As of today, I don't know Exactly where Danny boy is, but last I heard, his wife left him too. Pretty sure the CBD dumped him as well. He is probably working at McDonalds somewhere, trying to get his 15.00 minimum wage. So the consequence for him, is he has pretty much lost everything. He has no credibility at all anymore. No one will listen to him. The reaction? Well by me, it's FUCK HIM!!! lol Couldn't of happened to a nicer guy.

The ASA lives off donations from guys like me, TPC, Robbie and all kinna other guys on this board. I don't expect to be reimbursed. I am happy justice is slowly being restored.

Back in those days, no fees were being collected at Glamis. The fee system, only came about recently.

Why do we pay those fees? Most of money goes to trash collection. You see, not everyone lives by the "leave no trace" principals that some of us actually go by. The fucktards will leave there trash all over that place!! My friend Tim Gantz, had to have shoulder surgery, from trying to retrieve a couch some assholes left out in the dunes. Glamis would look like a fucking junk yard, if not for those fees, and the people that help keep it clean.

The reaction to the reopening of the dunes in many places is overwhelming happiness by the off-road community.

The reaction to the reopening of the dunes in many places is pure frustration by the enviro nuts.

The are learning they can't be taken seriously anymore. The Forest Service and the BLM are totally on top of them now. They carry much less weight than they used to, but are still a dangerous bunch.

In fact...............................................

I did some homework on this whole Oregon issue, and I'm pretty sure the CBD was behind this issue as well. They were the ones that got the ranchers cattle lines cut off. They forced the hand of the BLM, and there was nothing the BLM could do about it. They had to carry out the courts orders.

I spend most of my lunch hour reading this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Malheur_National_Wildlife_Refuge

I read every word of it, and now I am even MORE convinced the whole thing in Oregon was a joke. They guy that got shot was the ONLY rancher involved!!! Everyone else in the takeover were nutjobs from outa state. The cattlemans association condemned their actions. The ocoupiers were all a bunch fuck heads.

You should do a little more homework before you jump on your soap box again RD...



You should read the whole article before you say Anything else Dave, and stop embarrassing yourself! It's the EXACT same thing that happened in Glamis, at least until the militant nut jobs got involved.

Have fun with your rants.

Lol.. Well we will talk about this some more when I get home Joe..

 

[rivrrts429]

Well let's see...

I'm going to assume a few things here, cause your questions are rather vague.

The consequence for Danny boy? You live in AZ, how come you don't know all this??? He wormed his way into AZ politics for awhile, and then was thrown out on his ear. The guy if a fucking nut job, just like the clowns that were arrested in the Oregon confrontation. But on the other side of the proverbial "fence". As of today, I don't know Exactly where Danny boy is, but last I heard, his wife left him too. Pretty sure the CBD dumped him as well. He is probably working at McDonalds somewhere, trying to get his 15.00 minimum wage. So the consequence for him, is he has pretty much lost everything. He has no credibility at all anymore. No one will listen to him. The reaction? Well by me, it's FUCK HIM!!! lol Couldn't of happened to a nicer guy.

The ASA lives off donations from guys like me, TPC, Robbie and all kinna other guys on this board. I don't expect to be reimbursed. I am happy justice is slowly being restored.

Back in those days, no fees were being collected at Glamis. The fee system, only came about recently.

Why do we pay those fees? Most of money goes to trash collection. You see, not everyone lives by the "leave no trace" principals that some of us actually go by. The fucktards will leave there trash all over that place!! My friend Tim Gantz, had to have shoulder surgery, from trying to retrieve a couch some assholes left out in the dunes. Glamis would look like a fucking junk yard, if not for those fees, and the people that help keep it clean.

The reaction to the reopening of the dunes in many places is overwhelming happiness by the off-road community.

The reaction to the reopening of the dunes in many places is pure frustration by the enviro nuts.

The are learning they can't be taken seriously anymore. The Forest Service and the BLM are totally on top of them now. They carry much less weight than they used to, but are still a dangerous bunch.

In fact...............................................

I did some homework on this whole Oregon issue, and I'm pretty sure the CBD was behind this issue as well. They were the ones that got the ranchers cattle lines cut off. They forced the hand of the BLM, and there was nothing the BLM could do about it. They had to carry out the courts orders.

I spend most of my lunch hour reading this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Malheur_National_Wildlife_Refuge

I read every word of it, and now I am even MORE convinced the whole thing in Oregon was a joke. They guy that got shot was the ONLY rancher involved!!! Everyone else in the takeover were nutjobs from outa state. The cattlemans association condemned their actions. The ocoupiers were all a bunch fuck heads.

You should do a little more homework before you jump on your soap box again RD...



You should read the whole article before you say Anything else Dave, and stop embarrassing yourself! It's the EXACT same thing that happened in Glamis, at least until the militant nut jobs got involved.

Have fun with your rants.

Wikipedia [emoji2][emoji106]

 

[rivermobster]

Here ya go RD....

http://www.azcentral.com/news/polit...on-addressing-arizona-house-ethics-panel.html

This is the last thing I could find on the guy. He lives in AZ, you should probably keep a close eye on him!!!

 

[rivermobster]

Wikipedia [emoji2][emoji106]

Yeah I know. But it's the only ONE place the had most or all of the story. Lunch hours are only so long.

 

[Yarder]

Firstly, I can't believe that you're quoting wikipedia as a reliable source Joe. Especially considering that any swinging dick can write whatever they want to on just about any topic with no vetting or fact checking.

Secondly, I see the Bundy's and the Oregon occupiers alot more like us duners and the ASA and other pro-access orgs than like ol' Danny boy. This was about PUBLIC access and ownership of PUBLIC land that the Feds have annexed unconstitutionally.

Did Finicum do something stupid by getting out of the truck and running towards the LEO's? IMO yes, it was a dumb move. Did he deserve to be shot multiple times with his hands in the air? Fuck no.

And for those that would say he reached for his gun and then he was shot: He reached for his bullet wound, with his weak side hand, not the hand that could've drawn a weapon.

 

[rivermobster]

Lol.. Well we will talk about this some more when I get home Joe..

I can't wait...

 

[rivrrts429]

Yeah I know. But it's the only ONE place the had most or all of the story. Lunch hours are only so long.

Try this article. It's a bit wordy but if you can read through the bullshit it spells it out.


http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/what-is-the-oregon-standoff-really-about/

 

[Outdrive1]

Don't shoot me. I'm armed but not armed to the teeth!!!

 

[530RL]

It is "public land" owned by all of us and should be accessible to all of us.

However, different people have competing interests in the public land wether it be ranchers, off roaders, hunters, environmentalists and the list goes on.

So if it is public, who is supposed to manage it and manage the competing interests if it is not our elected officials who pass the laws that manage government agencies such as the BLM?

Or are we just to a point in our countries development that the competing interests are such that there is no civil solution?

 

[Yarder]

It is "public land" owned by all of us and should be accessible to all of us.

However, different people have competing interests in the public land wether it be ranchers, off roaders, hunters, environmentalists and the list goes on.

So if it is public, who is supposed to manage it and manage the competing interests if it is not our elected officials who pass the laws that manage government agencies such as the BLM?

Or are we just to a point in our countries development that the competing interests are such that there is no civil solution?

I agree that we should all have access to the land but the BLM solution to the issue in most cases is that nobody gets to use it. That IMO is not the correct solution.

 

[rivermobster]

It is "public land" owned by all of us and should be accessible to all of us.

However, different people have competing interests in the public land wether it be ranchers, off roaders, hunters, environmentalists and the list goes on.

So if it is public, who is supposed to manage it and manage the competing interests if it is not our elected officials who pass the laws that manage government agencies such as the BLM?

Or are we just to a point in our countries development that the competing interests are such that there is no civil solution?

IF everyone lived by the "leave no trace", they wouldn't have to be managed.

This earth has been managing it's self for thousands of years. It really does not need "us" .

 

[rivermobster]

Try this article. It's a bit wordy but if you can read through the bullshit it spells it out.


http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/what-is-the-oregon-standoff-really-about/

Pretty much the same story, but with a Completely different spin and half of the information!! lol

I can tell you right now, the eviro nuts (mainly the CBD), and the ranchers FUCKING HATE each other!!! They are constantly at odds, and the BLM and FWS get caught in the middle. They have to follow the courts/judges orders, they don't have a choice in the matter.

Check this out. It's a partial list of what the CBD is up to RIGHT NOW. They have brought thousands of lawsuits against the Forest Service over the years. It's fucked...

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/action/alerts/

 

[rivermobster]

The BLM is controlled by the Forest Service. Neither of these organizations do things for no reason, they do what they do as ordered by the judges and the courts.

Why do the courts direct their actions??

Lawsuits from the enviro nuts.

I'm not sure if this link will work, but if it does, you'll quickly get the idea. The CBD was instrumental in getting the BLM to do it's bidding, and that was to take land away from the ranchers (who the CBD absolutely hates).

Read away...

(updated link)

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/...www.biologicaldiversity.org/&ss=1109j283255j6

 

[rivrrts429]

Pretty much the same story, but with a Completely different spin and half of the information!! lol

I can tell you right now, the eviro nuts (mainly the CBD), and the ranchers FUCKING HATE each other!!! They are constantly at odds, and the BLM and FWS get caught in the middle. They have to follow the courts/judges orders, they don't have a choice in the matter.

Check this out. It's a partial list of what the CBD is up to RIGHT NOW. They have brought thousands of lawsuits against the Forest Service over the years. It's fucked...

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/action/alerts/

So do we agree that the ranchers fucked up in the end but it's not hard to see how someone can get to the boiling point?

This wasn't a vacation destination. This wasn't an area where you go to have fun. This was a family's home and livelihood.

The government tried to take it for no other reason besides a show of power. These people weren't hurting anything.

No different than our very own board member Wash11. If this had been him this entire forum would've gone ballistic.

 

[rivermobster]

Fuck! They keep blocking the search link I'm trying to post. If you really are interested, go do the http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/ and do a search on "malheur".

You'll see who the Real bullies are here! I hate these fucks at the CBD. :finger

 

[rivermobster]

So do we agree that the ranchers fucked up in the end but it's not hard to see how someone can get to the boiling point?

This wasn't a vacation destination. This wasn't an area where you go to have fun. This was a family's home and livelihood.

The government tried to take it for no other reason besides a show of power. These people weren't hurting anything.

No different than our very own board member Wash11. If this had been him this entire forum would've gone ballistic.

Here is where you have bought into the media frenzy...

The BLM was ordered by the courts to do what they did. The courts ordered the BLM to do what they did following a lawsuit by the enviro nuts!!!

Stop believing what you read in the media bro. It's all bullshit. The real assholes are the enviro nuts. With their well thought out and calculated lawsuits, they get done what they want to do. They are far more well funded than us.

I wish I had the time to type out the whole story on how most of Glamis got closed. It was the very first time the CBD used the tactics they did, and they won big time on their agenda! Once the had that first victory, and the formula for success down, they went full steam ahead with their fucked up agenda.

If anyone needs to be taken out by a militia party, it would be the fucktards at the CBD.

But the media won't tell you that story. The media won't bite the hand that feeds.

 

[rivrrts429]

Here is where you have bought into the media frenzy...

The BLM was ordered by the courts to do what they did. The courts ordered the BLM to do what they did following a lawsuit by the enviro nuts!!!

Stop believing what you read in the media bro. It's all bullshit. The real assholes are the enviro nuts. With their well thought out and calculated lawsuits, they get done what they want to do. They are far more well funded than us.

I wish I had the time to type out the whole story on how most of Glamis got closed. It was the very first time the CBD used the tactics they did, and they won big time on their agenda! Once the had that first victory, and the formula for success down, they went full steam ahead with their fucked up agenda.

If anyone needs to be taken out by a militia party, it would be the fucktards at the CBD.

But the media won't tell you that story. The media won't bite the hand that feeds.

I don't watch the media, Joe. I don't have Facebook or get my news from a Meme lol.

I followed the Glamis deal closely. Your fight is a long ways from being over and will get worse all with the governments help.

 

[rivermobster]

I don't watch the media, Joe. I don't have Facebook or get my news from a Meme lol.

I followed the Glamis deal closely. Your fight is a long ways from being over and will get worse all with the governments help.

So then where ARE you getting your misinformation from then?!?!?!

Here, read this...

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2010/steelhead-12-30-2010.html

PORTLAND, Ore.? A federal judge today barred livestock grazing harmful to endangered steelhead trout on more than a quarter-million acres of public land on the Malheur National Forest in eastern Oregon.

District Judge Ancer Haggerty ordered the U.S. Forest Service and National Marine Fisheries Service to reconsider the effects of the federal agencies? grazing plan on native steelhead streams before grazing can resume.


According to Judge Haggerty, grazing has harmed steelhead by damaging the streams they depend on. The court?s order prohibits the Forest Service from allowing grazing on a vast area, including nearly 200 miles of critical steelhead habitat, until the agency complies with the Endangered Species Act. Along another 100 miles of steelhead streams, the court ordered the Forest Service to continue to carry out protective measures it approved during the last two years. The judge also ordered the Forest Service to comply with its steelhead habitat monitoring obligations under the National Forest Management Act and the Malheur Forest Plan before resuming grazing.

Today?s court order is the result of long-running challenges to Forest Service grazing by the Oregon Natural Desert Association, Center for Biological Diversity and Western Watersheds Project that began in 2003. It follows Judge Haggerty?s June 2010 ruling that the Forest Service?s grazing plan violated the Endangered Species Act and National Forest Management Act along more than 300 miles of steelhead streams in the John Day River Basin.


?Today?s decision puts the responsibility for protecting steelhead squarely on the agencies,? said Brent Fenty, ONDA?s executive director. ?The court makes clear that the agencies have to make steelhead protection their highest priority, and that they cannot let riparian grazing continue until the agencies create a plan that complies with the law.?


In his ruling earlier this year, Judge Haggerty noted evidence that streamside grazing failed to meet ecological standards designed to conserve steelhead. The standards, established by the Forest Service and Fisheries Service, are meant to protect the key elements of healthy fish streams: stable stream banks and overhanging vegetation that keep streams clear and cold. The Forest Service?s grazing program has damaged stream banks much more severely than is allowed under federal standards.


?This decision insures that the Forest Service must give up its business-as-usual grazing management,? said Jon Marvel, executive director of Western Watersheds Project. ?There will be no grazing on hundreds of miles of important fish streams until the Forest Service and NMFS can guarantee that grazing will not harm steelhead.?


Judge Haggerty?s order is the latest in a series of decisions that have resulted in significant protections for threatened steelhead. The judge issued a preliminary ruling in 2008 barring grazing on two allotments, which protected more than 90 miles of steelhead streams. In 2009, the court imposed strong conditions to restrict grazing and limit damage to streams. In the places where the court?s orders have prevented grazing during the past two years, even a single year of rest has allowed for significant initial recovery of riparian plant communities, stream channels and fish habitat.


?Suspending grazing on more than 200 miles of stream on the Malheur National Forest will not just benefit endangered steelhead, but numerous other wildlife species dependent on healthy rivers for their survival,? said Noah Greenwald, endangered species director at the Center for Biological Diversity. ?It will also benefit the public by improving water quality and recreational opportunities, such as fishing, bird-watching and boating. Numerous studies have conclusively demonstrated that there is no compatible use of riparian areas by livestock.?


The Malheur National Forest is located in eastern Oregon?s Blue Mountains. It includes portions of the Upper John Day, Middle Fork John Day, North Fork John Day and Malheur rivers. The 281-mile long John Day River is the second longest undammed river in the continental United States. The river and its hundreds of miles of tributary streams on the Malheur National Forest provide spawning, rearing and migratory habitat for the largest naturally spawning, native stock of wild steelhead remaining in the Columbia River basin.

 

[C-2]

I watched that video, or at least as much as I could, what do the land records say? Why is everybody taking what he says as correct? If he is correct, why didn't he go to court? From my own experience, people are apprehensive to go to court when there is a paper trail and they know they're wrong.....

What am I missing, I'm all ears and trying to keep an open mind, is there something else?

Wife and I go around and round about this all time with local development projects that do impact my everyday life. I'm from the camp there's only so much land and respurces to go around and sooner or later, we're gonna run out.

 

[rivermobster]

I watched that video, or at least as much as I could, what do the land records say? Why is everybody taking what he says as correct? If he is correct, why didn't he go to court? From my own experience, people are apprehensive to go to court when there is a paper trail and they know they're wrong.....

What am I missing, I'm all ears and trying to keep an open mind, is there something else?

Wife and I go around and round about this all time with local development projects that do impact my everyday life. I'm from the camp there's only so much land and respurces to go around and sooner or later, we're gonna run out.

What you are stating is true. The courts handed down their decision, and the families did not follow them. They thought they were above the law. The Wild Wild West analogy is dead on.

Read some of the links and the story I posted. It's all pretty clear if you do.

The sheeple go with what the media feeds them...

The big bad BLM is taking land for no reason at all! < pure bullshit

The reality is, the BLM is a tool of the court, or more directly, of the Forest Service.

Both of those entities do as they are instructed to do. They don't make a whole lot of decisions on their own, other than the maintenance of the areas they oversee.

For someone to get bent at them is just dumb. The people who we all should be pissed at are the enviro nuts that force the courts, to force them (the forest service and blm) to carry out their fucked up enviro nut agenda!

The media has a completely different agenda, and we all know, nothing they post is the truth.

What you are thinking is completely right.

 

[Raffit78]

Dumb questions.....

Why do the "enviro nuts" have an issue with this families land....

I'd also like to know the story in Glamis.

 

[Old Texan]

I've not followed this situation as I'd like to and plan on getting caught up. What happens in these situation and how the enviro nazis work behind the scenes is something all of us need to be aware of and be prepared to fight back against.

Right now we have things pretty good but we must realize one day these bureaucratic assholes are going to come for our boating rights. It's just a matter of time before they try and regulate all navigable waters and what is allowed to float on them.

 

[cicchetti_24]

I see a lot of double standard arguments in this thread, because the guy was fighting for a "cause". But if this was a black man walking down the street and was shot for not obeying orders we would hear "well listen and obey the cops and don't break the law and you won't be shot". I don't care for the BLM movement, but it is clear in this thread alone that there is a double standard.

Regardless of the movement or shady practices by the Feds with the ranchers that led to this, if you break the law which he clearly did and taunt the LEO's you are bound to be shot and killed.

As far as them still shooting at the truck, well let's not forget they did state they were armed, so at that point who knows what these people were capable of in the truck.

I do not know if they were shooting projectiles, bullets or whatever, from the LEO point of view these people were armed and dangerous.

So how about don't break the law regardless of the cause and you will not be shot and killed.

If the sinpers, FBI are lying they should be brought up on charges end of story.

 

[rivermobster]

Dumb questions.....

Why do the "enviro nuts" have an issue with this families land....

I'd also like to know the story in Glamis.

It's not just this family. The CBD probably has 50 law suits going at any given time, to protect some frog, fish or plant.

Short story on Glamis...

Daniel Patterson hates off roaders. He was one of the founders of the CBD.

He went through all the forest service rules, and found where they had 90 days to respond to any kind of accusation.

So he went in low key. Just a small simple filing that stated the Milkvetch plant could only be found in Glamis and should be protected.

The fs probably just filed it and forget all about it. Remember, this had never been done before...

So after 90 days past, Patterson filed suit in court, accused the FS of neglect, and asked the judge to close down the dunes.

He won his suit, and the BLM and FS had to do what they were told. It was a huge slap in the face to them.

Everyone was completely blind sided! And after that, the CBD gained all kinna power, got tons of funding (since they were able to get the job done), and started filing suits left and right.

Everyone is wise to them now, but now they have even more funding, staffs of lawyers, and will exploit and loophole in the laws they can.

There was a case where they falsely accused a rancher of abusing his land. The problem was, the rancher was a retired high power lawyer!

He counter sued them and fucked them good. But it did little to slow them down. It just made them more careful and wiser.

They really are fucking insane.

 

[rivermobster]

I've not followed this situation as I'd like to and plan on getting caught up. What happens in these situation and how the enviro nazis work behind the scenes is something all of us need to be aware of and be prepared to fight back against.

Right now we have things pretty good but we must realize one day these bureaucratic assholes are going to come for our boating rights. It's just a matter of time before they try and regulate all navigable waters and what is allowed to float on them.

As usual, you have gone straight to the heart of the matter.

 

[C-2]

The fact is you don't care because you haven't figured out how it directly effects you.. But it is directly effecting us. From the food that we eat, right down to where you can and cannot vacation.

The real problem is there has to be a change, but nobody has figured out (to date) what that change will be or how to do it. The answer certainly isn't found in the Federal Courts though because they are not impartial. For me personally I believe the answer is found in State's rights and the Constitution, and the complete revamping and shrinking of the Federal government. It was never intended to be this giant all controlling thing that it has turned into.

Which takes us all the way back to why I have a confederate flag hanging on my wall. Because to sum it up best "It represents a level of Freedom and State's rights that we as Americans will never know."

RD

I wasn't even going to respond to this but since I wasted my time watching the Bundy video you put up, I thought I would return the favor.

First, I'm surprised no history major called you on it. I don't have time to type it all out for you, but most answers to your questions can be found in early US History, the period between colonization until the civil war. Included in that time frame would also be the formation of the federal government and the Constitution. Written history, facts. Not history according to Bundy or any other other looney toon sources floating around on the Internet.

To recap though, the Fed owns so much the Western lands for the simple fact the colonists had already laid claim to the Eastern seaboard even before a federal government was created. It took the newly formed fed 75 years to move west - they had a few obstacles in their way, like the Indians, the British, the French, the Dutch, and the Mexicans. But, by the mid 1800's, it was a done deal. And, because of those same obstacles, that's when the colonists and their colonies got together and said "Hey, instead of fighting everybody independently, how about we form a union, an alliance. You know, safety in numbers." Voila, there's the reason for your original colonies and the "United" states. They knew too, there would be a need for a central form ogf government..so they put it down on paper, the Constitution. Remember, the view is we are born with rights, the Constitution does not give them to us.

Moving on...Bundy has no rightful claim to the land in question. He doesn't have a court case, or a valid defense. He loses on every facet because of the simple fact his arguments are without merit.

So he decides to atack the Constitution and breaks out his Cliff notes version and proceeds to interpret it for us. Of course, why not, I mean the Fourth Amendmnet is an easy read with only 50 or so words. But, where is the train full of cargo containers that house all the arguments, opinions and rulings surrounding the Fourth by itself?

"Hi, I'm a rancher, this is my cattle dog and these are my cows; I'm just a good ole boy." And people buy it hook, line and sinker. Well, maybe not, not too many people have watched the vid.

When I say I don't care, it's because I don't. just the same as Bundy doesn't care about you or I; just the same any rancher or farmer does not care about the general citizenry. They, like you and I, care about themselves. You missed GoGFly's point. Had Bundy prevailed in any court case, you better believe he would not be falling back on all the sovereignty claims he raises, nor would he be claiming violations of the Constitution.

Bundy fucked up his own good thing, not the other way around.

My 25 minutes is done. :thumbup:

 

[t&y]

These people have been fucked by the government for decades.. It has come down to a point where they have literally made a stand in life. They are then on their way to meet a local Sheriff to discuss in detail the issues and resolution. You want them to stop because the same people that have persecuted them asked them too? And then those same people ambushed them?

I realize your a cop man.. But even the cops in this situation are scratching their heads at the Feds actions on this one and saying "Uhhh... They were pumping rounds in this deal waaayyy before it was necessary, and they are lying about it."

He chose his path very clearly. Gave a nice speach to anybody listening on scene and we have his own people to thank for the blow by blow inside the truck. Whether you think you have been persecuted for years or not, deciding to flee a traffic stop from the feds, endangering the lives of everyone inside the vehicle right along with you, is about the stupidist thing you can do.

I'm not saying everything was perfect with any of it, but this guy got exactaly what he was asking for. Justified killing of a human being is what we see in that video.

 

[IN AWE]

I see a lot of double standard arguments in this thread, because the guy was fighting for a "cause". But if this was a black man walking down the street and was shot for not obeying orders we would hear "well listen and obey the cops and don't break the law and you won't be shot". I don't care for the BLM movement, but it is clear in this thread alone that there is a double standard.

Regardless of the movement or shady practices by the Feds with the ranchers that led to this, if you break the law which he clearly did and taunt the LEO's you are bound to be shot and killed.

As far as them still shooting at the truck, well let's not forget they did state they were armed, so at that point who knows what these people were capable of in the truck.

I do not know if they were shooting projectiles, bullets or whatever, from the LEO point of view these people were armed and dangerous.

So how about don't break the law regardless of the cause and you will not be shot and killed.

If the sinpers, FBI are lying they should be brought up on charges end of story.

Carrying a weapon is not against the law, carrying multiple weapons in your vehicle is not against the law. Being considered armed and dangerous is a assumption and is no reason to riddle a vehicle with bullets or kill a man that had his hands up regardless of the words that are coming out of his mouth.

 

[Riverson]

I wasn't even going to respond to this but since I wasted my time watching the Bundy video you put up, I thought I would return the favor.

First, I'm surprised no history major called you on it. I don't have time to type it all out for you, but most answers to your questions can be found in early US History, the period between colonization until the civil war. Included in that time frame would also be the formation of the federal government and the Constitution. Written history, facts. Not history according to Bundy or any other other looney toon sources floating around on the Internet.

To recap though, the Fed owns so much the Western lands for the simple fact the colonists had already laid claim to the Eastern seaboard even before a federal government was created. It took the newly formed fed 75 years to move west - they had a few obstacles in their way, like the Indians, the British, the French, the Dutch, and the Mexicans. But, by the mid 1800's, it was a done deal. And, because of those same obstacles, that's when the colonists and their colonies got together and said "Hey, instead of fighting everybody independently, how about we form a union, an alliance. You know, safety in numbers." Voila, there's the reason for your original colonies and the "United" states. They knew too, there would be a need for a central form ogf government..so they put it down on paper, the Constitution. Remember, the view is we are born with rights, the Constitution does not give them to us.

Moving on...Bundy has no rightful claim to the land in question. He doesn't have a court case, or a valid defense. He loses on every facet because of the simple fact his arguments are without merit.

So he decides to atack the Constitution and breaks out his Cliff notes version and proceeds to interpret it for us. Of course, why not, I mean the Fourth Amendmnet is an easy read with only 50 or so words. But, where is the train full of cargo containers that house all the arguments, opinions and rulings surrounding the Fourth by itself?

"Hi, I'm a rancher, this is my cattle dog and these are my cows; I'm just a good ole boy." And people buy it hook, line and sinker. Well, maybe not, not too many people have watched the vid.

When I say I don't care, it's because I don't. just the same as Bundy doesn't care about you or I; just the same any rancher or farmer does not care about the general citizenry. They, like you and I, care about themselves. You missed GoGFly's point. Had Bundy prevailed in any court case, you better believe he would not be falling back on all the sovereignty claims he raises, nor would he be claiming violations of the Constitution.

Bundy fucked up his own good thing, not the other way around.

My 25 minutes is done. :thumbup:

Facts we don't need no stinking Facts! You nailed it with a short to the point history lesson.

 

[cicchetti_24]

Carrying a weapon is not against the law, carrying multiple weapons in your vehicle is not against the law. Being considered armed and dangerous is a assumption and is no reason to riddle a vehicle with bullets or kill a man that had his hands up regardless of the words that are coming out of his mouth.

I never stated it was against the law to carry a gun.

Hands up? He looked as though he went for his jacket. He broke the law and threatened a blood bath and stated he was armed.

He was armed and dangerous by his actions he ran from the cops and almost ran one down with his vehicle.

Don't break the law and you won't get shot.

Obey an order from an LEO and don't pose a threat and you won't get shot.

My statement had zero to do with it being against the law to carry a gun.:thumbup:

 

[Go-Fly]

I've not followed this situation as I'd like to and plan on getting caught up. What happens in these situation and how the enviro nazis work behind the scenes is something all of us need to be aware of and be prepared to fight back against.

Right now we have things pretty good but we must realize one day these bureaucratic assholes are going to come for our boating rights. It's just a matter of time before they try and regulate all navigable waters and what is allowed to float on them.

How true this is^^^^^. The people that we elect and send to Washington don't even read the laws they pass. If you have a bill working it's way through that has to do with the endangered specie act, everyone wants to load it with pork because we all want to save the three eyed toad at Love Canal. Because no one reads what they are voting for, they put unfunded mandates on the Forest Service and the BLM. When you are told that you must get this done and have zero money to do it, you have to let it sit. The outcome is that we must live with the lowest denominator to solve the problem. That's why it is so easy for CBD to win in court. Wendall Wood used the 90 day law back in the 80's to stop logging. He went to work for CBD after closing the ORC. Nothing new at Glamis. Glamis and the Oregon dunes are slowly being closed. Power boats are next to be banned on all waterways. The building blocks are already being put in place. It's not hard to change or stop but, we (that means you and me) will wait until it is closed and then scream about our rights.

 

[rivermobster]

How true this is^^^^^. The people that we elect and send to Washington don't even read the laws they pass. If you have a bill working it's way through that has to do with the endangered specie act, everyone wants to load it with pork because we all want to save the three eyed toad at Love Canal. Because no one reads what they are voting for, they put unfunded mandates on the Forest Service and the BLM. When you are told that you must get this done and have zero money to do it, you have to let it sit. The outcome is that we must live with the lowest denominator to solve the problem. That's why it is so easy for CBD to win in court. Wendall Wood used the 90 day law back in the 80's to stop logging. He went to work for CBD after closing the ORC. Nothing new at Glamis. Glamis and the Oregon dunes are slowly being closed. Power boats are next to be banned on all waterways. The building blocks are already being put in place. It's not hard to change or stop but, we (that means you and me) will wait until it is closed and then scream about our rights.

THIS ^^^ X1000 is what this discussion SHOULD be about. Arguing about how this guy died is pointless, in as much as it's not going to change a damm thing!!!

What will change things is NOT letting this guy die in vain. Let it be a wake up call to what's really going on in the country.

There are some VErY good posts in this thread about what Really went on in this situation.

Educate yourselves to the facts. Educate yourselves to who the REAL enemy is.

It is not the government, the BLM, the Forest Service or any other entity we pay with our taxes. They just carry out what they are ordered to do.

The CBD is the real enemy here. These guys right here -----> http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/

Do what they do and TAKE ACTION!!!

Raise your kids to know right from wrong. Spread the word about the truth of this matter, and how this all came to pass. It's going on every day all around us, and the media is leading people by the nose away from the real issues. They are not going to talk about them.

Don't listen to the media for your info. Watch what your senators vote for. Write to them. Complain to them. Vote in people that do NOT support the nut jobs, and be part of the solution, not the problem. :thumbsup

 

[RiverDave]

I wasn't even going to respond to this but since I wasted my time watching the Bundy video you put up, I thought I would return the favor.

First, I'm surprised no history major called you on it. I don't have time to type it all out for you, but most answers to your questions can be found in early US History, the period between colonization until the civil war. Included in that time frame would also be the formation of the federal government and the Constitution. Written history, facts. Not history according to Bundy or any other other looney toon sources floating around on the Internet.

To recap though, the Fed owns so much the Western lands for the simple fact the colonists had already laid claim to the Eastern seaboard even before a federal government was created. It took the newly formed fed 75 years to move west - they had a few obstacles in their way, like the Indians, the British, the French, the Dutch, and the Mexicans. But, by the mid 1800's, it was a done deal. And, because of those same obstacles, that's when the colonists and their colonies got together and said "Hey, instead of fighting everybody independently, how about we form a union, an alliance. You know, safety in numbers." Voila, there's the reason for your original colonies and the "United" states. They knew too, there would be a need for a central form ogf government..so they put it down on paper, the Constitution. Remember, the view is we are born with rights, the Constitution does not give them to us.

Moving on...Bundy has no rightful claim to the land in question. He doesn't have a court case, or a valid defense. He loses on every facet because of the simple fact his arguments are without merit.

So he decides to atack the Constitution and breaks out his Cliff notes version and proceeds to interpret it for us. Of course, why not, I mean the Fourth Amendmnet is an easy read with only 50 or so words. But, where is the train full of cargo containers that house all the arguments, opinions and rulings surrounding the Fourth by itself?

"Hi, I'm a rancher, this is my cattle dog and these are my cows; I'm just a good ole boy." And people buy it hook, line and sinker. Well, maybe not, not too many people have watched the vid.

When I say I don't care, it's because I don't. just the same as Bundy doesn't care about you or I; just the same any rancher or farmer does not care about the general citizenry. They, like you and I, care about themselves. You missed GoGFly's point. Had Bundy prevailed in any court case, you better believe he would not be falling back on all the sovereignty claims he raises, nor would he be claiming violations of the Constitution.

Bundy fucked up his own good thing, not the other way around.

My 25 minutes is done. :thumbup:

C-2. To start That wasn't Bundy in the video.. It was Levoy, the man that was shot to death. As for the rest, it isn't history by Levoy to be the point of the video. It was to say he was a normal, successful rancher, whom hasn't ever been a trouble maker, whom purchased his grazing rights and land from someone else, whom all of a sudden has become a target of a government agency, who's friends of similar occupation have become targets of the same, whom drove it to the point where he took a stand, and it ultimately ended up costing him his life..

For the record you make it sound like referring to the constitution is a bad thing? Why?

 

[RiverDave]

THIS ^^^ X1000 is what this discussion SHOULD be about. Arguing about how this guy died is pointless, in as much as it's not going to change a damm thing!!!

What will change things is NOT letting this guy die in vain. Let it be a wake up call to what's really going on in the country.

There are some VErY good posts in this thread about what Really went on in this situation.

Educate yourselves to the facts. Educate yourselves to who the REAL enemy is.

It is not the government, the BLM, the Forest Service or any other entity we pay with our taxes. They just carry out what they are ordered to do.

The CBD is the real enemy here. These guys right here -----> http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/

Do what they do and TAKE ACTION!!!

Raise your kids to know right from wrong. Spread the word about the truth of this matter, and how this all came to pass. It's going on every day all around us, and the media is leading people by the nose away from the real issues. They are not going to talk about them.

Don't listen to the media for your info. Watch what your senators vote for. Write to them. Complain to them. Vote in people that do NOT support the nut jobs, and be part of the solution, not the problem. :thumbsup

Joe the BLM is absolutely about grabbing land and it doesn't have anything to do with some outside enviro whack job group.. That is what happened with closing certain BLM areas down, but I'm not sure it has to do with acquiring new areas? (Although I'm sure it does in some cases I'm saying it's not the rule persay but more the exception?)

 

[rivermobster]

Joe the BLM is absolutely about grabbing land and it doesn't have anything to do with some outside enviro whack job group.. That is what happened with closing certain BLM areas down, but I'm not sure it has to do with acquiring new areas.

You really need to stop embarrassing yourself Dave.

Ask yourself a few simple questions to start with....

WHY would a cash strapped agency be out to increase the work load they have??

WHY would they want to grab ANY land in the first place? For what purpose? To what end?

You come up with those answers, and you'll figure out real quick what some of us are talking about here.

I've posted plenty of links to back up the facts I am giving you. What do you have to back up your theory?

Here ya go Dave, read and learn: http://westernfarmpress.com/ranchers-take-envirofreaks-woodshed

Western Farm Press Editor Harry Cline?s commentary, ?Whacked-out envirofreaks offer bizarre solution to save other life? (Feb. 20, 2010), shed light on the ridiculous antics of the Center for Biological Diversity, a Tucson, Ariz.-based environmental group.


Cline wrote about CBD offering free condoms to protect more superior animal species by reducing the second-class human population. This group?s lawsuit-happy actions to protect good fish bait include lawsuits where questionable wins force taxpayers to pad the group?s financial war chest.


Over the last decade Pima County ranchers Jim and Sue Chilton were wrongly attacked by the CBD. The group sued the U.S. Forest Service to end the Chilton?s grazing allotment. The group claimed the area was a habitat for the Sonora chub and the lesser long-nosed bat, and that the Chiltons mismanaged the land.
The CBD took pictures of bare ground on the Chilton?s allotment, alleging poor management and posted the photos on the CBD?s Web site. Jim Chilton says the photos were actually of a small camping spot for deer hunters. Several feet away healthy range grass stood 20 inches tall.


When Chilton saw a CBD news release in his local newspaper with even more allegations, the Chiltons decided enough was enough.
?These people do not like production agriculture,? Chilton told me. ?I laid awake at night over all this. I said I?m not a wimp. I?m a cowboy; it?s time to cowboy up. I?m taking them on.?


The Chiltons filed a $100,000 defamation and libel lawsuit against the CBD. The U.S. Forest Service then conducted surveys on soil quality, riparian areas and grasses on the allotment. A world-renowned range scientist climbed every mountain on the ranch and found the Chiltons to be exemplary rangeland stewards and among the best ranchers in the Southwest.


The Chiltons pursued jury trials against the CBD. Over a three-week period, jurors heard testimony from many experts. They voted 10-0 and 9-1 in favor of the Chiltons. In addition to the $100,000 award, the court awarded the Chiltons $500,000 in punitive damages.
The CBD then filed an appeal with the Arizona District Court of Appeals. The court sided 3-0 with the Chiltons. CBD went to the Arizona Supreme Court. It refused to hear the case.


The CBD pondered taking the issue to the U.S. Supreme Court. Then the most bizarre twist occurred. The CBD said it would drop the highest court challenge if Chilton paid the envirofreaks $35,000 to go away. Western Farm Press cannot print Jim Chilton?s response. These settlement deals are common, but seldom reported.


In the end, the Chiltons collected the $600,000. The ranching family paid out more in legal fees than it collected, but it was worth it, according to Jim, ?They lied about a cowboy. By God, it was the best expenditure I?ve ever made.?


Justice is sweet, and the woodshed is still a good place for an attitude adjustment.

 

[rivermobster]

Joe the BLM is absolutely about grabbing land and it doesn't have anything to do with some outside enviro whack job group.. That is what happened with closing certain BLM areas down, but I'm not sure it has to do with acquiring new areas? (Although I'm sure it does in some cases I'm saying it's not the rule persay but more the exception?)

The battle over cattle began some 16 months ago when an environmental coalition sued BLM in federal court for not protecting threatened desert species, including the beleaguered desert tortoise.


http://americansandassociation.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=2256

 

[rivermobster]

Joe the BLM is absolutely about grabbing land and it doesn't have anything to do with some outside enviro whack job group.. That is what happened with closing certain BLM areas down, but I'm not sure it has to do with acquiring new areas? (Although I'm sure it does in some cases I'm saying it's not the rule persay but more the exception?)

The CBD has filed numerous lawsuits in the past decade against the federal government and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service over perceived endangered species.

Read more: http://www.ammoland.com/2011/11/cen...-ordred-to-pay-ranchers-600000/#ixzz42cc9JMrS
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook

 

[RiverDave]

Joe, you are looking at a tree and not seeing the Forrest here man..

Small parcels sure.. 85% of a state? Not environmentally related.. I'll post a vid that I have posted before on here when I get home

 

[rivermobster]

Joe the BLM is absolutely about grabbing land and it doesn't have anything to do with some outside enviro whack job group.. That is what happened with closing certain BLM areas down, but I'm not sure it has to do with acquiring new areas? (Although I'm sure it does in some cases I'm saying it's not the rule persay but more the exception?)

http://agenda21news.com/2015/05/nps-ecological-mismanagement-at-point-reyes-by-design/

The Center for Biological Diversity is a pressure group, known for its underhanded tactics. The CBD?s executive director, Keiran Suckling, makes no apology for these practices. In a 2009 interview with High Country News, he said, ?The core talent of a successful environmental activist is not science and law. It?s campaigning instinct.?

 

[rivermobster]

Joe, you are looking at a tree and not seeing the Forrest here man..

Small parcels sure.. 85% of a state? Not environmentally related.. I'll post a vid that I have posted before on here when I get home

http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/...y-ranch-family-vs-big-gov-big-green-big-media

Bundy Ranch Family vs. Big Gov., Big Green, Big Media

In the 1980s, a broad coalition of the major enviro-actvist groups targeted cattle ranching for extinction. Specifically, they initiated a multi-pronged, long-term plan to evict livestock from the vast ?public lands? of the Western states. They planned to drive out all the ranchers by 1993, thus their slogan at the time: ?Cattle Free by ?93.?