Canada tariffs? What about can ams!

[riverroyal]

I'm not paying 25% more if this goes through.

Full disclosure
DAVE this post does not make me miserable. If it appears that way please let me know so I can reword it

 

[Mr. C]

I'm not paying 25% more if this goes through.

Full disclosure
DAVE this post does not make me miserable. If it appears that way please let me know so I can reword it

Haha. Sometimes steps need to be taken to get production in “our” country. Back on track.

 

[JB in so cal]

Can't even buy a Mex Am now too...

 

[attitude]

I’ll start putting 25% less maple syrup on my pancakes and waffles…

 

[riverroyal]

Haha. Sometimes steps need to be taken to get production in “our” country. Back on track.

I know i know.
Looks like early January purchase

 

[NIKAL]

Can Am UTV’s are not made in Canada. They are made in Mexico, which will also have the Tariffs, if Mexico does not stop allowing illegals to pass through to the USA.

Everyone is worried and the “Experts” claim these tariffs are going to hurt Americans. Yet does anyone remember Trump initiated these tariffs in his first term, and we were not financially ruined. Biden kept the Trump tariffs in place even though he condemned them. Just a few months ago Biden increased China tariffs on some items like electric vehicles, solar panels, chips and batteries. I guess if Biden does it the media is ok with it?

 

[Sleek-Jet]

The last time he did this lumber went through the roof as most the logs for 2x4's comes from the canuks.

 

[riverroyal]

Im all for tariffs. But at 47k msrp with another 25% is going hurt.
If it happens.

 

[530RL]

Can Am UTV’s are not made in Canada. They are made in Mexico, which will also have the Tariffs, if Mexico does not stop allowing illegals to pass through to the USA.

Everyone is worried and the “Experts” claim these tariffs are going to hurt Americans. Yet does anyone remember Trump initiated these tariffs in his first term, and we were not financially ruined. Biden kept the Trump tariffs in place even though he condemned them. Just a few months ago Biden increased China tariffs on some items like electric vehicles, solar panels, chips and batteries. I guess if Biden does it the media is ok with it?

Targeted tariffs are viewed today as useful tools for trade management by both parties.

Universal tariffs on all goods and services have been tried before.

The Great Depression Lesson About ‘Trade Wars’ | HISTORY

In 1930, raising tariffs across the board hurt the U.S. economy.

www.history.com

I suspect this is bluster. Across the board tariffs are unlikely and if implemented will lead to the rich getting even richer and the working class getting hurt causing a reasonably quick correction in policy as mid term elections come very quickly.

 

[JDKRXW]

Canadian federal government is shitting their pants right now.... and getting little support from the public - because Trump is right (as long as he doesn't go too far).
It seems like if 1) drugs and 2) illegals getting funneled into the us are brought under control, some reasonableness may prevail.
What's concening everyone most is the car industry (not just us but the EU too), and it could get real ugly.

Just as an aside; it's been reveald that there's 4.9 million people here on temporary visas --- that expire on Dec.31, 2025. There was no promise of citizenship but the government is going to use the honor system to ensure they leave. This is 5 million in a population of under 40 million.
We're fucked.

 

[Mr. C]

Im all for tariffs. But at 47k msrp with another 25% is going hurt.
If it happens.

Things might hurt for sure for a bit. . But if they are. Wouldn’t you rather have an American company prosper. .
Semi rhetorical

 

[JDKRXW]

Things might hurt for sure for a bit. . But if they are. Wouldn’t you rather have an American company prosper. .
Semi rhetorical

It's a balance. Some will prosper, some will get slaughtered. Im thinking Boeing, Cat, Deere and Microsoft as examples

 

[96motorhead]

Things might hurt for sure for a bit. . But if they are. Wouldn’t you rather have an American company prosper. .
Semi rhetorical

American companies likely won't prosper as much as you would think. Our standard of living has priced us out of the global economy as producers.

I think the threat of tariffs being placed on imports is going to be used more as a tool to leverage foreign nations to our benefit. That's just my opinion.

 

[530RL]

American companies likely won't prosper as much as you would think. Our standard of living has priced us out of the global economy as producers.

I think the threat of tariffs being placed on imports is going to be used more as a tool to leverage foreign nations to our benefit. That's just my opinion.

There are 4 billion people on the planet willing to work for a fraction of the standard of living of the lowest cost laborer in America.

And Americans standard of living prospers greatly off the willingness of those people working for a lower standard of living doing menial labor while Americans do high value work.

There is a lot of high value production American companies can focus on. Leave menial assembly jobs to those willing to work for a lower standard of living.

 

[Mr. C]

American companies likely won't prosper as much as you would think. Our standard of living has priced us out of the global economy as producers.

I think the threat of tariffs being placed on imports is going to be used more as a tool to leverage foreign nations to our benefit. That's just my opinion.

Maybe not right away buts it got to start somewhere.
. Jmho.

 

[Mr. C]

There are 4 billion people on the planet willing to work for a fraction of the standard of living of the lowest cost laborer in America.

And Americans standard of living prospers greatly off the willingness of those people working for a lower standard of living doing menial labor while Americans do high value work.

There is a lot of high value production American companies can focus on. Leave menial assembly jobs to those willing to work for a lower standard of living.

But if America didn’t import all its shit. Those willing to work for fucking scraps wouldn’t matter as much.
I’d rather pay more for what is made here. Than tariffs from shit hole country.

To me what most are missing. Is we dont need any other country to survive and prosper.
We have almost everything we need here or we did until it was thrown away. .

 

[Done-it-again]

Im all for tariffs. But at 47k msrp with another 25% is going hurt.
If it happens.

It’s 25% of the mfg cost not 25% of the MSRP.

 

[530RL]

But if America didn’t import all its shit. Those willing to work for fucking scraps wouldn’t matter as much.
I’d rather pay more for what is made here. Than tariffs from shit hole country.

And that should certainly be your choice.

But, for example, if someone can’t afford to buy from the snap on truck for their new career as an automotive technician, they should certainly be free to chose a cheaper option so they too can thrive despite just starting out on a limited budget.

And as they thrive, they may just choose as you do. But that should be their choice.

 

[Mr. C]

But if America didn’t import all its shit. Those willing to work for fucking scraps wouldn’t matter as much.
I’d rather pay more for what is made here. Than tariffs from shit hole country.

And that should certainly be your choice.

But, for example, if someone can’t afford to buy from the snap on truck for their new career as an automotive technician, they should certainly be free to chose a cheaper option so they too can thrive despite just starting out on a limited budget.

And as they thrive, they may just choose as you do. But that should be their choice.

And that cheaper option coming on the heels of 8-10 year olds working who knows how many hours is ok with you.
No problem. Pay the tariff for those products.
Our country has gone to shit because of how we have sold out to others.

 

[riverroyal]

It’s 25% of the mfg cost not 25% of the MSRP.

That makes sense.
A 47k can am could go up 5k I'd think

 

[530RL]

And that cheaper option coming on the heels of 8-10 year olds working who knows how many hours is ok with you.
No problem. Pay they tariff for those products.

Fair enough, if the concern is child labor, why not tariff child labor made products versus all products?

Now if the view is one wants to tariff products manufactured in less expensive manufacturing options in order to subsidize American workers wages with higher prices to purchasers, which fairly will come at the expense of American consumers pocketbooks and standard of living, why not just admit that?

Why not just be honest about it. The American consumer has chosen cheaper foreign made products and the US government should tax those who make that choice in order to subsidize some Americans at the expense of others?

There is nothing wrong with that view, lots of countries share it, but why not just admit the economic reality of what it is?

 

[Mr. C]

Fair enough, if the concern is child labor, why not tariff child labor made products versus all products?

Now if the view is one wants to tariff products manufactured in less expensive manufacturing options in order to subsidize American workers wages with higher prices to purchasers, which fairly will come at the expense of American consumers pocketbooks and standard of living, why not just admit that?

Why not just be honest about it. The American consumer has chosen cheaper foreign made products and the US government should tax those who make that choice in order to subsidize some Americans at the expense of others?

There is nothing wrong with that view, lots of countries share it, but why not just admit the economic reality of what it is?

In short. The American consumer has been forced into buying goods from other countries due to how our (so called leaders) have done business
We could be the leaders of the world. But nope. Suck on the tit of others.

 

[boatpi]

Trump is wielding a big stick, a toool.

To get the border Partners to get smart and bring illegals and drugs under control. It is the best roll in his war chest. It will work, it always does. We are huge importers and are not too worried. Trudeau is donkey and truly screwing up a great country.

 

[530RL]

In short. The American consumer has been forced into buying goods from other countries due to how our (so called leaders) have done business
We could be the leaders of the world. But nope. Suck on the tit of others.

Fair enough.

As a consumer, I don’t believe the government has “forced” me to choose goods from other countries. For example, I can buy a 15,000 tool chest made in America from my snap on guy or I can spend 3,500 bucks for one made outside America that will do the job. And I am glad Americans have the freedom to make that choice.

And I am glad the government enacted polices where the guy selling the 3500 dollar box can compete with the 15,000 dollar box. Im glad I could purchase the cheaper one when I was young and starting out, and the expensive one now that I can pay for it. People can truly have opportunities when they have those choices, at least I believe so. I certainly did.

This is a tough situation where someone is going to lose and someone is going to win in a big way. We should probably just focus on how to be the windshield and not the big.

 

[Orange Juice]

Taxes + Religion = Politics

 

[BingerFang]

Fair enough.

As a consumer, I don’t believe the government has “forced” me to choose goods from other countries. For example, I can buy a 15,000 tool chest made in America from my snap on guy or I can spend 3,500 bucks for one made outside America that will do the job. And I am glad Americans have the freedom to make that choice.

And I am glad the government enacted polices where the guy selling the 3500 dollar box can compete with the 15,000 dollar box. Im glad I could purchase the cheaper one when I was young and starting out, and the expensive one now that I can pay for it. People can truly have opportunities when they have those choices, at least I believe so. I certainly did.

This is a tough situation where someone is going to lose and someone is going to win in a big way. We should probably just focus on how to be the windshield and not the big.

China is shipping 4 legs and square top to Mexico, having a cheap laborer put 4 screws in making it a table, and it’s then it’s able to be imported into USA with no tariffs with a “hencho in Mexico sticker.” Complete crap.

Everyone is taking advantage of the USA, we’ve been too nice for too long.

We have the capabilities to make a cheap toolbox here in America. However, there is no incentive when we can use slave labor with zero regulation overseas and 10x the bottom line.

We need to learn how to be the exterminator so our grandkids don’t have to worry about bugs on the windshield.

Aren’t you in the Union?

 

[Dog]

Fair enough.

As a consumer, I don’t believe the government has “forced” me to choose goods from other countries. For example, I can buy a 15,000 tool chest made in America from my snap on guy or I can spend 3,500 bucks for one made outside America that will do the job. And I am glad Americans have the freedom to make that choice.

And I am glad the government enacted polices where the guy selling the 3500 dollar box can compete with the 15,000 dollar box. Im glad I could purchase the cheaper one when I was young and starting out, and the expensive one now that I can pay for it. People can truly have opportunities when they have those choices, at least I believe so. I certainly did.

This is a tough situation where someone is going to lose and someone is going to win in a big way. We should probably just focus on how to be the windshield and not the big.

Where does AI and automation fit into your rose colored glasses?

 

[530RL]

Where does AI and automation fit into your rose colored glasses?

For me, it Gives America even more opportunities to focus on high value manufacturing while less developed countries rely on menial labor.

 

[HTTP404]

I hear they suck anyway.

 

[Dog]

For me, it Gives America even more opportunities to focus on high value manufacturing while less developed countries rely on menial labor.

Does it negate child labor or "cheap" labor in counties that will have to pay tariffs?

 

[Motor Boater]

For me, it Gives America even more opportunities to focus on high value manufacturing while less developed countries rely on menial labor.

The scary thing is nothing is manufactured here anymore. If other countries want to decimate us. They just stop sending us medicine or other goods. Where are your blood pressure meds manufactured? Someone’s insulin? Oil, Food, Etc etc. we have to keep some level of control here. I mean if someone cuts off the chicken nugget supply my kids are gonna starve. It’s like trust but verify. We have too much foreign dependency. Too many eggs in one basket or too few eggs in our basket might be a better example.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

The scary thing is nothing is manufactured here anymore. If other countries want to decimate us. They just stop sending us medicine or other goods. Where are your blood pressure meds manufactured? Someone’s insulin? Oil, Food, Etc etc. we have to keep some level of control here. I mean if someone cuts off the chicken nugget supply my kids are gonna starve. It’s like trust but verify. We have too much foreign dependency. Too many eggs in one basket or too few eggs in our basket might be a better example.

Trade is bilateral, meaning our dollars flow the other way. That's why countries don't stop sending us goods, despite tariffs. And if one country does, there is another willing to take its place.

If you want to disrupt our economy you have to physically keep those good from making it to our shores in the first place. Which is the real threat from China and why it is developing a blue water navy and expanding its reach in the western Pacific.

Cutting red tape will do far more to bring manufacturing back to the US than tariffs ever will. So let's hope that Musk and Vivek do some lasting good in that department.

 

[riverroyal]

I hear they suck anyway.

I've seen this. They all have 2024s. I purposely skipped this year. Doesn't mean the 25s won't have problems.
I do know where I won't be buying AND servicing now. There is A particular dealership that has created A lot of issues on their own.

 

[whiteworks]

I'm not paying 25% more if this goes through.

A buddy of mine once told me, no one has to drive a Porsche.

I’m optimistic about this new administration and hope it all works out well.

 

[ChiliPepperGarage]

Some times you have to rip off the bandage.

This is the problem with us these days. No one is willing to deal with a little short term hardship for long term gain. We want it all and we want it now.

 

[NIKAL]

Some times you have to rip off the bandage.

This is the problem with us these days. No one is willing to deal with a little short term hardship for long term gain. We want it all and we want it now.

Exactly! I’m in the electronics manufacturing industry, and this really hurts our business, and “could” affect my job of 30 years. ( It didn’t when Trump did it the first time, and it didn’t when Biden kept the Trump tariffs) But that’s the chance I’m willing to take to make our country better for the long run.

If it was me, I’d like to see Trump threaten tariffs everything but food & oil out of Canada & Mexico. Basically the essentials we need and the things we can’t readily produce ourselves. Canada supplies the US with appox 60% of our oil. Mexico produces almost 70% of the fruits & vegetables imported into the U.S.

If Trump just threatened to tariff the Canadian & Mexico Auto Industry, that should be enough to get their attention to help stop the flow of illegals and drugs. I’m not sure if anyone remembers, but in Trumps first term he threatened a 25% tariff on Mexico, and within weeks Mexico came to the table and agreed to put their military on the boarder and stop the caravans from coming through. Remember the burden it was putting on the Mexican citizens and they were upset with all the immigrant people stuck in their country making a mess.

 

[76sanger]

Frankly it's all a mute discussion. One four year term does squat to help the USA out of decades and decades of democrat run House, Senate and Presidency with an occasional Republican thrown in. We need eight to twelve and more years of a conservative Republican running this country to see real growth with real American made products.

 

[NIKAL]

Frankly it's all a mute discussion. One four year term does squat to help the USA out of decades and decades of democrat run House, Senate and Presidency with an occasional Republican thrown in. We need eight to twelve and more years of a conservative Republican running this country to see real growth with real American made products.

I partially agree with you. But then again look at what the last 4 years did to our country. I think we need to look at this as the set up to a longer term. We need to pray what Trump accomplishes in the next 4 years, will be the lead off to JD Vance getting the Presidency in 2028.

Four years can do more than you think. Just look at Trumps first term, then look what Biden did in the last 4. He made such a mess that Trump was able to return with what most would consider a land slide victory in every category. If the next 4 years can prove to be successful for the American people, I don’t see this stopping.

Hell look at all the companies bailing on the DEI as soon as Trump won the election. They knew it was a disastrous way to run a business & country, but they were afraid of the democrats. As soon as they lost power the wokeness has receded. Your freedom of speech has been protected once again. Just compare Biden’s Woke cabinet to Trumps current cabinet line up. It’s shocking to see how batt shit crazy the Dems were.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

Some times you have to rip off the bandage.

This is the problem with us these days. No one is willing to deal with a little short term hardship for long term gain. We want it all and we want it now.

I agree, but it wouldn't surprise me that it would take the better part of a decade to open a new steel plant in the US, simply due to the permitting requirements to do so. Then you have to allow for the mining to extract the raw materials and that is at least as long if not longer to expand an existing mine let alone start a new one.

So is a 5-10 years short term or long term? I don't know. Politically it is a lifetime and spans one to two presidential terms if not three and probably one economic cycle. Political will is needed to ride out the downturns. I dont think that will exists outside of an election year for most politicians.

I agree that the average American thinks that if anything takes longer than a couple of days to reach their door it is an eternity.

 

[2Driver]

I wouldn't set your hair on fire until we see what really happens vs the media hype. Geez didn't we learn anything after covid?

So what, if I have to pay more for some stuff for a couple years to stop the flow of drugs and illegals Im all in.

 

[TimeBandit]

Speed Car.

Why did they move production from China to Vietnam?

From my reading labor in Vietnam is about $3 an hour, China is $6

Recently Boeing workers went on strike for what $59 an hour?

So even if you tax the goods from Vietnam or China 25%, you still can produce goods far, far cheaper.

The foreign countries do not pay the tariff.

the American consumer pays the tariff via the increased cost of imported goods.

 

[JDKRXW]

The foreign countries do not pay the tariff.

the American consumer pays the tariff via the increased cost of imported goods.

Exactly.
And let's not forget - it's the federal government that gets to direct how all this money collected in import tarriffs is spent.
Does literally anyone trust that this money will be directed to offset higher local manufacturing costs fairly
(Ahem, cough cough Ukraine).

 

[Lumpy]

I think you guys are missing it here…

If there wasn't so much corruption then the 16 Amendment wouldn't exist…you know those pesky income taxes?

If our leaders weren't so corrupt tariffs are perfect. It worked up until 1913 and we had more money than we knew what to do with. As a matter of fact there was a committee created just to figure out how to spend it…again, income tax didn't exist until 1913…it was almost all tariffs.

 

[boatpi]

FYI; importing items from China to Mexico and they bring it into the United States as largest tiny content is called trans shipping it’s done a lot. It’s highly illegal. They generally catch it. It’s done a lot now from the Chinese bringing stuff to Vietnam and market malefaction Vietnam, and and shipping it to the US and a different ship. Anyway, the Chinese can get around it they absolutely will.
Now as to tariff , if there’s a 10% tariff that doesn’t result in a 10% consumer cost as that’s at the wholesale import level, and we’ve dealt with this as an importer many times in the past. If you adjust your margin just a little bit with the 10% added tariff. The consumer price of the exact item would be somewhere around 3 to 4% price increase.

 

[Track Man]

Obviously, it’s a lot easier to F shit up than it is to fix it. Yes it’s gonna take some time to fix this Shit. We still have Democrats fighting with us too.

 

[Racey]

Speed Car.

Why did they move production from China to Vietnam?

From my reading labor in Vietnam is about $3 an hour, China is $6

Recently Boeing workers went on strike for what $59 an hour?

So even if you tax the goods from Vietnam or China 25%, you still can produce goods far, far cheaper.

The foreign countries do not pay the tariff.

the American consumer pays the tariff via the increased cost of imported goods.

If it was that cut and dry the foreign companies and governments wouldn't be freaking out over it....

Tariffs are a negotiating tool primarily.

A tool to stop the bleeding secondly....

We are not operating in free trade, the US has over-regulated almost every industry to the point where we have driven the bulk of our actual productive manufacturing overseas. We over enforce rules here, while these low pay markets enforce nothing. We let them flood our markets with goods, they have protective tariffs and trade restrictions that prevent us from selling into theirs.

If it was an even playing field the "free market" argument would actually hold water, it doesn't.

Even the father of free trade, Adam Smith, admitted this to be true in the 1700s, a man who was greatly opposed to tariffs blatantly said that they ARE effective in trade wars to get the offending countries to come back to an even playing field. A fact that is arrogantly ignored by free marketers of today.

The government promised the citizens that as we sold out our manufacturing in the 80s we would transition into "higher skill jobs". This never happened, we traded machinists, mill wrights, mechanics, foundrymen, chemists, and engineers, for Baristas, waitresses, bartenders, cooks, uber drivers, etc.... And then all of a sudden they stop talking about these higher skilled jobs for the average worker, and start about the "Service Sector".... The problem is, the service sector is 100% consumptive, the manufacturing sector is productive. One drains wealth, while the other creates it.

Now we are reliant on foreign adversaries for basic inputs of life, from metals, to textiles, to microchips and pharmaceutical precursors.

This country will not exist in 50 years if we continue down the path we have been on.

 

[lbhsbz]

Its a good thing I got a significant price reduction a few months ago from my one canadian supplier....I was sorta looking forward to it, oh well.

 

[Canuck 1]

Canadian federal government is shitting their pants right now.... and getting little support from the public - because Trump is right (as long as he doesn't go too far).
It seems like if 1) drugs and 2) illegals getting funneled into the us are brought under control, some reasonableness may prevail.
What's concening everyone most is the car industry (not just us but the EU too), and it could get real ugly.

Just as an aside; it's been reveald that there's 4.9 million people here on temporary visas --- that expire on Dec.31, 2025. There was no promise of citizenship but the government is going to use the honor system to ensure they leave. This is 5 million in a population of under 40 million.
We're fucked.

And if the libs say 5 mill the correct number is 15

 

[Mr. Jones]

Instead of tariffs to solve a drug problem, Americans should just stop doing Meth, heroin, cocaine, or fentanyl. If people stopped, drug cartels wouldn't exist. Or, we could make those drugs here legally and then Americans could still ruin their lives the way they want.

 

[530RL]

Instead of tariffs to solve a drug problem, Americans should just stop doing Meth, heroin, cocaine, or fentanyl. If people stopped, drug cartels wouldn't exist. Or, we could make those drugs here legally and then Americans could still ruin their lives the way they want.

Blaming demand is not popular.