California's small engine ban

[Taboma]

I want to know what the RV market is going to do with gas generators on new RVs. Are you going to have to go out of state to get a generator installed? One rule opens up a can of worms with no regard to the consumer!

According to a couple of articles I've read, the RV industry brought all the heavy hitters to confront the CARB brain-dead clowns, what a bunch of dumb fucks !!!!!!!!

If you're interested here's two good reads one the subject. This also affects gasoline marine generators as well -- but apparently diesels for now are getting a pass, go figure.

Despite RV Industry's Opposition, California to Ban Portable Generators - RVBusiness - Breaking RV Industry News

RVBusiness - Breaking RV Industry News Despite RV Industry's Opposition, California to Ban Portable Generators

rvbusiness.com

CARB Bans RV Generators Starting In 2028, Acknowledges Challenges Ban Creates For The RV Industry

At its hearing on Thursday, December 9, the California Air Resources Board (CARB) passed Resolution 21-13-2, as amended at the hearing, to approve the proposed amendments to the Small Off-Road Engine regulation. The regulation applies to all spark ignition engines less than 25 horsepower...

www.rvia.org

 

[timstoy]

I don't know if Honda discontinued the TAG --- The "G" denoting a 50 state compliance, but all I can find on Honda's website or otherwise is a model TAN --- the "N" denoting 49 state.

The Honda dealers in So Cal don’t have generators for sale, same with Camping World not even a display area anymore!

 

[hallett21]

The stupidity is astounding - at my job in Torrance, the Regional Planning Dept. of LA County did not want me to use a diesel powered generator to power my trailer before I got the temp power installed. They wanted me to use an electric powered generator. WTF?

So Cal is a no go on generators for temp power. However welders can use a “welding machine” lol

 

[hallett21]

I gotta believe you’re approaching the point where the weather doesn’t overcome the bullshit. Why anyone would live like this is beyond me

The reality is that as a contractor you just continue to put up with the BS and charge for it. The clients continue to pay. Until
that dries up you just press on.

I’m my world electrical service swaps are approaching 6k because people want to remain on a generator while we work.

 

[SBMech]

Am I the only one wondering who the fuck is buying a 34k electric mower?

That only runs for 2 hours?

CA is doomed. OR not....most likely nothing will be enforced, after all, who are they going to fine, the immigrants they invited to come here?

 

[hallett21]

Am I the only one wondering who the fuck is buying a 34k electric mower?

That only runs for 2 hours?

CA is doomed. OR not....most likely nothing will be enforced, after all, who are they going to fine, the immigrants they invited to come here?

Beverly Hills, Torrance/Redondo adopted the EV greens keeper mentality 2-3 years ago.

That’s for the cities.

Go see what they’re using on a random residence lawn lol.

 

[timstoy]

CARB is a non elected panel that has way to much power and control of California laws and policies. CARB could care less if a goal is not achievable. Do rational people think California will have no gas powered vehicles for sale by 2035? We don’t have enough electricity now in California and no new power plants on the drawing board. We can’t depend on other states for electricity and as our population grows with the millions of llegal aliens each year the strain on our electricity, water and housing are being taxed to the limit.

 

[Taboma]

The Honda dealers in So Cal don’t have generators for sale, same with Camping World not even a display area anymore!

I've had my Honda 2200I for a long time and for outages I've needed it maybe once a year average. I'm planning on purchasing a larger 240V unit, 7KW roughly, but I want it dual fuel so I can run it off my house propane tank if needed for longer duration outages. Honda doesn't make any dual fuel and I don't want to pay Mondo Honda Dollars then use some 3rd party adaptor setup. I don't want to procrastinate to long, otherwise these things might be harder to buy in AZ in the upcoming years ??

I found it odd, that in reading about how RV and Marine gensets are being regulated, diesel is getting a pass under these regs.

 

[timstoy]

I've had my Honda 2200I for a long time and for outages I've needed it maybe once a year average. I'm planning on purchasing a larger 240V unit, 7KW roughly, but I want it dual fuel so I can run it off my house propane tank if needed for longer duration outages. Honda doesn't make any dual fuel and I don't want to pay Mondo Honda Dollars then use some 3rd party adaptor setup. I don't want to procrastinate to long, otherwise these things might be harder to buy in AZ in the upcoming years ??

I found it odd, that in reading about how RV and Marine gensets are being regulated, diesel is getting a pass under these regs.

I think they got a pass on diesel generators because high end motor homes and boats are diesel. I was surprised CARB banning propane generators also. These CARB panel members are idiots.

 

[spectra3279]

You will buy and electric generator and like it.

What an oxymoron. Electric generator.

 

[bilz]

I was in Glamis with two under 30 couples. One of them says to me "Come check out my generator".
He pulls out a jackery. The other one says I got one two and breaks out some rei looking battery box.
We're doomed.

 

[lbhsbz]

What an oxymoron. Electric generator.

Go to home depot's website and search "electric generator". They even have some with "push button start"....the on/off switch. It's a battery pack.

 

[spectra3279]

I think they got a pass on diesel generators because high end motor homes and boats are diesel. I was surprised CARB banning propane generators also. These CARB panel members are idiots.

In other words because rich people

 

[OCMerrill]

Just re-stating what is fact to help this thread remain clear.

As of right now its a ban on purchasing small engines starts with 2024 being the "Ban on Sales" start year except generators.
That said all small engines currently need to meet CARB standards which is the issue with Honda. Honda is flipping CA the bird.

Generators - January 2028 is when the SALE of generators are banned. So if you want one you have a little time although I bet they become double priced as the years tick on. CARB compliant and somehow CA is scaring the shit out of neighbor states for backhanding a sale. I think that is interesting.

If you own any small engine you can still use it... just like in 2035 with cars. Its banning the SALE of a combustion engine car but you can still buy a Hybrid.
You can still continue to drive what you have and to detour you I'm sure Gas and Diesel will be $20 a gallon.

There is currently no legislation stating you will be fined for firing up your old school mower in 2030. "Currently" being the wild card word here.

This is a perfect example of Liberalism working like a cancer.

Welcome to CUBA people.

 

[Taboma]

What an oxymoron. Electric generator.

I disagree, please explain how those two terms are contradictory.
A generator, a device designed to produce electricity, versus let's say, hydrogen gas or smoke as two examples.
The device could be photovoltaic, mechanical, pressure, friction or temperature.

Yes, I realize you're just being sarcastic and as much as the people sitting around creating these mandates are living oxy-morons, the term itself is not.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I disagree, please explain how those two terms are contradictory.
A generator, a device designed to produce electricity, versus let's say, hydrogen gas or smoke as two examples.
The device could be photovoltaic, mechanical, pressure, friction or temperature

In this situation the device charging the electric generator is actually the generator.

The electric “generator” is simply a electricity storage device.

 

[Taboma]

Just re-stating what is fact to help this thread remain clear.

As of right now its a ban on purchasing small engines starts with 2024 being the "Ban on Sales" start year except generators.
That said all small engines currently need to meet CARB standards which is the issue with Honda. Honda is flipping CA the bird.

Generators - January 2028 is when the SALE of generators are banned. So if you want one you have a little time although I bet they become double priced as the years tick on. CARB compliant and somehow CA is scaring the shit out of neighbor states for backhanding a sale. I think that is interesting.

If you own any small engine you can still use it... just like in 2035 with cars. Its banning the SALE of a combustion engine car but you can still buy a Hybrid.
You can still continue to drive what you have and to detour you I'm sure Gas and Diesel will be $20 a gallon.

There is currently no legislation stating you will be fined for firing up your old school mower in 2030. "Currently" being the wild card word here.

This is a perfect example of Liberalism working like a cancer.

Welcome to CUBA people.

CARB, after listening to extensive testimony presented by the RV industry representatives, provided a means for extensions for RV generators, beyond 2028, to I believe it was 2032, if it's so deemed that technology has not provided an appropriate alternative.

As far as using our existing gas powered devices, I tend to think liberal minded cities will continue to implement local laws preventing their use, as several of the San Diego beach cities have already done for commercial use.

I'm curious what pressure is being applied on retail outlets regarding selling non-approved equipment to neighboring state residents ?
The state squeezing the manufacturer or the retailer ?

I wonder what would happen if I tried to use my Home Depot CC, with it's CA billing address, in the Havasu HD for a "In Store-pickup" or "Deliver To, AZ address" for a non-approved CA device ? I've never tried, as in most cases, their shelves offer the same products. Although perhaps shower heads in the AZ HD have a higher flow rate ? Maybe I'll test the water

 

[Taboma]

In this situation the device charging the electric generator is actually the generator.

The electric “generator” is simply a electricity storage device.

In what situation ? For the RV ? Who's to say it's not photovoltaic generated then using batteries as a means of storage ? The discussion on the table is how are gasoline fueled mechanical generators going to be replaced with a different electrical generation device ---- I agree, batteries do not generate, they store. Although they do produce a minor re-generation, or recovery.

Also, the term is not incorrect or an oxymoron when you consider that the DC voltage stored in the batteries which as initially generated by another means, is going to "Generate" a specific AC voltage output using Induction (Versus Mechanical) as a means of re-generating, or transforming the energy to a usable type and voltage.

It's NOT just a battery.

Even devices like that Jackery provide a means of initial generation using a photovoltaic source.

"But Home Depot Said" Plug in "Electric Generator" on a HD website you might get shower curtain rods.

 

[RCDave]

In this situation the device charging the electric generator is actually the generator.

The electric “generator” is simply a electricity storage device.

You mean a battery of sorts?

 

[was thatguy]

In what situation ? For the RV ? Who's to say it's not photovoltaic generated then using batteries as a means of storage ? The discussion on the table is how are gasoline fueled mechanical generators going to be replaced with a different electrical generation device ---- I agree, batteries do not generate, they store. Although they do produce a minor re-generation, or recovery.

Also, the term is not incorrect or an oxymoron when you consider that the DC voltage stored in the batteries which as initially generated by another means, is going to "Generate" a specific AC voltage output using Induction (Versus Mechanical) as a means of re-generating, or transforming the energy to a usable type and voltage.

It's NOT just a battery.

Even devices like that Jackery provide a means of initial generation using a photovoltaic source.

"But Home Depot Said" Plug in "Electric Generator" on a HD website you might get shower curtain rods.

Have some more coffee and just settle down! Lol

 

[Taboma]

Have some more coffee and just settle down! Lol

What ? Do you realize I'm trying to hold back the flood waters of the mighty LOF here ? Jesus Man, he's trying to invade another thread, and we all know what havoc he's wrought in the "Speed" thread

To quote a wise member from another thread " What are you going to do about it ?"

I'd like to get me some more coffee, but I'm afraid to pull my thumb out of the dam and I can't reach the coffee machine from here.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

What ? Do you realize I'm trying to hold back the flood waters of the mighty LOF here ? Jesus Man, he's trying to invade another thread, and we all know what havoc he's wrought in the "Speed" thread

To quote a wise member from another thread " What are you going to do about it ?"

I'd like to get me some more coffee, but I'm afraid to pull my thumb out of the dam and I can't reach the coffee machine from here.

There was no line in the Havasu MVD 10 mins ago. You should waltz down there and get yore AZ ID

Then none of this would even bother you.

 

[was thatguy]

There was no line in the Havasu MVD 10 mins ago. You should waltz down there and get yore AZ ID

Then none of this would even bother you.

 

[Taboma]

There was no line in the Havasu MVD 10 mins ago. You should waltz down there and get yore AZ ID

Then none of this would even bother you.

This just might be the tipping point when Mr. Law Abiding Citizen ( Generally speaking, in most respects, a Wanna-be, not perfect, almost) is driven to commit an act that might be construed by some authorities as being borderline fraud and just do that sir.
If not for the generator, for sure the f*cking higher flow shower head.

 

[Dana757]

Makes me want to 2 stroke my e bike as a form of protest.

 

[was thatguy]

This just might be the tipping point when Mr. Law Abiding Citizen ( Generally speaking, in most respects, a Wanna-be, not perfect, almost) is driven to commit an act that might be construed by some authorities as being borderline fraud and just do that sir.
If not for the generator, for sure the f*cking higher flow shower head.

If you ever get jammed up in CA don’t show them any ID.
Just say “No hablas” and you’ll be on your way…

 

[OCMerrill]

CARB, after listening to extensive testimony presented by the RV industry representatives, provided a means for extensions for RV generators, beyond 2028, to I believe it was 2032, if it's so deemed that technology has not provided an appropriate alternative.

As far as using our existing gas powered devices, I tend to think liberal minded cities will continue to implement local laws preventing their use, as several of the San Diego beach cities have already done for commercial use.

I'm curious what pressure is being applied on retail outlets regarding selling non-approved equipment to neighboring state residents ?
The state squeezing the manufacturer or the retailer ?

I wonder what would happen if I tried to use my Home Depot CC, with it's CA billing address, in the Havasu HD for a "In Store-pickup" or "Deliver To, AZ address" for a non-approved CA device ? I've never tried, as in most cases, their shelves offer the same products. Although perhaps shower heads in the AZ HD have a higher flow rate ? Maybe I'll test the water

So, you state an entirely different problem...the "City Ordinance" issue. Agreed, very much a concern. Another reason for a City to grab money from their residents by potentially fining them. AS of right now CARB does not have that situation in place.

I am thinking of obtaining an AZ ID, using my CRA Membership to establish Havasu Springs or another park they own in Havasu as my residence. I know others who are doing just this for various reasons I will leave intentionally leave out. With that I am sure I can just buy what I need.

Born in the 60's, raised in the 70's, went to dragways, raced my own car, loved camping when you could go anytime you wanted without a CA Parks reservation, and of course Parker. Played sports with no added pronouns, wore vans shoes and OP shorts, stayed out all night cruising Whittier Blvd looking for a race, and on and on. THANK GOD or the LUCKY STARS I was at the tail end of a "Mostly" free country. My Adult Kids don't even know the freedoms we used to enjoy because they are growing up in a completely different "mentality."

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

This just might be the tipping point when Mr. Law Abiding Citizen ( Generally speaking, in most respects, a Wanna-be, not perfect, almost) is driven to commit an act that might be construed by some authorities as being borderline fraud and just do that sir.
If not for the generator, for sure the f*cking higher flow shower head.

It’s not fraud. It’s not even bordering fraud.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

So, you state an entirely different problem...the "City Ordinance" issue. Agreed, very much a concern. Another reason for a City to grab money from their residents by potentially fining them. AS of right now CARB does not have that situation in place.

I am thinking of obtaining an AZ ID, using my CRA Membership to establish Havasu Springs or another park they own in Havasu as my residence. I know others who are doing just this for various reasons I will leave intentionally leave out. With that I am sure I can just buy what I need.

Born in the 60's, raised in the 70's, went to dragways, raced my own car, loved camping when you could go anytime you wanted without a CA Parks reservation, and of course Parker. Played sports with no added pronouns, wore vans shoes and OP shorts, stayed out all night cruising Whittier Blvd looking for a race, and on and on. THANK GOD or the LUCKY STARS I was at the tail end of a "Mostly" free country. My Adult Kids don't even know the freedoms we used to enjoy because they are growing up in a completely different "mentality."

There you go. All you need is an address for the non “Real ID” you don’t even need to establish “residency”. You just have to prove you are you.

If you want the federal “Real ID” then you have to have stuff that shows you live and pay bills there.

 

[Gelcoater]

Makes me want to 2 stroke my e bike as a form of protest.

Throw a banshee engine in that bitch!

 

[Taboma]

So, you state an entirely different problem...the "City Ordinance" issue. Agreed, very much a concern. Another reason for a City to grab money from their residents by potentially fining them. AS of right now CARB does not have that situation in place.

I am thinking of obtaining an AZ ID, using my CRA Membership to establish Havasu Springs or another park they own in Havasu as my residence. I know others who are doing just this for various reasons I will leave intentionally leave out. With that I am sure I can just buy what I need.

Born in the 60's, raised in the 70's, went to dragways, raced my own car, loved camping when you could go anytime you wanted without a CA Parks reservation, and of course Parker. Played sports with no added pronouns, wore vans shoes and OP shorts, stayed out all night cruising Whittier Blvd looking for a race, and on and on. THANK GOD or the LUCKY STARS I was at the tail end of a "Mostly" free country. My Adult Kids don't even know the freedoms we used to enjoy because they are growing up in a completely different "mentality."

I've put off doing the AZ ID for 20 years, but my motivation button is being pushed. Just be careful if you try to play "Resident" on your boat registration, when I did that quite by accident, AZ got real huffy about it.

Your final paragraph is one I use to bolster my occasional advancing age related mood swings ---- I was so fortunate to have lived, worked, played, fought and loved, during an amazing era. Now as I observe these young, smart-mouthed- know it all-f*ck sticks, I giggle, knowing I won't be around to suffer the same havoc their "Good Intentions" are creating. They will reap what they're sowing and I won't, so nanner nanner

 

[Taboma]

It’s not fraud. It’s not even bordering fraud.

 

[timstoy]

Just re-stating what is fact to help this thread remain clear.

As of right now its a ban on purchasing small engines starts with 2024 being the "Ban on Sales" start year except generators.
That said all small engines currently need to meet CARB standards which is the issue with Honda. Honda is flipping CA the bird.

Generators - January 2028 is when the SALE of generators are banned. So if you want one you have a little time although I bet they become double priced as the years tick on. CARB compliant and somehow CA is scaring the shit out of neighbor states for backhanding a sale. I think that is interesting.

If you own any small engine you can still use it... just like in 2035 with cars. Its banning the SALE of a combustion engine car but you can still buy a Hybrid.
You can still continue to drive what you have and to detour you I'm sure Gas and Diesel will be $20 a gallon.

There is currently no legislation stating you will be fined for firing up your old school mower in 2030. "Currently" being the wild card word here.
This is a perfect example of Liberalism working like a cancer.

Welcome to CUBA peopl

Remember electric prices will also go up with increased demand and no new power plants on the drawing board. we don’t have enough electricity now wait till Hoover dam drys up and other states won’t have surplus electricity because there state has increased demand. If you can’t charge your car with roaming black outs or just no electricity how are you going to get to work or cook your food? You can’t have new major electricity demand with no new sources for generate it.

 

[Mandelon]

Meanwhile China builds a new coal fired power plant every week.

 

[spectra3279]

I disagree, please explain how those two terms are contradictory.
A generator, a device designed to produce electricity, versus let's say, hydrogen gas or smoke as two examples.
The device could be photovoltaic, mechanical, pressure, friction or temperature.

Yes, I realize you're just being sarcastic and as much as the people sitting around creating these mandates are living oxy-morons, the term itself is not.

Ok. A generator creates power on demand. An electric generator is a battery that stores electricity. So it's not creating it. Yes I guess if you have enough solar panels then it could be a generator

 

[Taboma]

Ok. A generator creates power on demand. An electric generator is a battery that stores electricity. So it's not creating it. Yes I guess if you have enough solar panels then it could be a generator

I fully understand that a battery in and of itself is a type of electrical storage component. But once that particular storage component becomes integral to a device that causes that stored energy potential to be altered either mechanically or magnetically, it's being regenerated.

For this same reason, even the transformation of AC to AC potential is technically and per electrical building codes as well, to be considered a brand new source.

Yes, I realize that in the context of what's commonly accepted to be an "Electrical Generator", unless it's integrated with PV cells as one example, it's an oxymoron, but technically, even without, it's not.
The asterisk is of course, similar to the type of generator that requires an external energy such as fuel, it's going to require the occasional refilling.

So you see, regardless of the type of generator, none of them are capable of producing Jack Shit completely left alone out in the middle of a field.

Nothing is generating electrical energy, as energy can neither be created or destroyed, it's all a matter of changing one type of energy into another, regardless.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

If only you had that AZ ID….

This is why I still have mine.....

 

[OCMerrill]

There you go. All you need is an address for the non “Real ID” you don’t even need to establish “residency”. You just have to prove you are you.

If you want the federal “Real ID” then you have to have stuff that shows you live and pay bills there.

I have a real ID in CA so I don't need an AZ Real ID. I am thinking I am going to make this happen.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I have a real ID.

For AZ? Excellent.

Don’t tell Taboma.

 

[DLC]

All I can Add to this Thread is….

My new neighbor doesn’t cut his lawn frequently and when he does it takes him almost all day! I can literally clock his time w/ a SUNDIAL !

a few times I suggested he use my mower its gas and KICKS ASS!

He has an electric mower and it doesn’t cut for shit if it’s tall and thick, batteries die and take hours to rekindle the All Spark of the mower !

I’m done w/ the same size lawn in 40 minutes!

Really makes you wonder what the cities are going to do with big ass ball fields and center medians….

 

[mash on it]

Really makes you wonder what the cities are going to do with big ass ball fields and center medians….

Goats? Sheep?
Even cattle would work!
Livestock emissions would be recyclable and...well, green!

Dan'l

 

[DWC]

All I can Add to this Thread is….

My new neighbor doesn’t cut his lawn frequently and when he does it takes him almost all day! I can literally clock his time w/ a SUNDIAL !

a few times I suggested he use my mower its gas and KICKS ASS!

He has an electric mower and it doesn’t cut for shit if it’s tall and thick, batteries die and take hours to rekindle the All Spark of the mower !

I’m done w/ the same size lawn in 40 minutes!

Really makes you wonder what the cities are going to do with big ass ball fields and center medians….

They’ll all get exemptions.

 

[TimeBandit]

All I can Add to this Thread is….

My new neighbor doesn’t cut his lawn frequently and when he does it takes him almost all day! I can literally clock his time w/ a SUNDIAL !

a few times I suggested he use my mower its gas and KICKS ASS!

He has an electric mower and it doesn’t cut for shit if it’s tall and thick, batteries die and take hours to rekindle the All Spark of the mower !

I’m done w/ the same size lawn in 40 minutes!

Really makes you wonder what the cities are going to do with big ass ball fields and center medians….

Engines over 25 h.p. are exempt, so new zero turns will be rated at 27 h.p. I'm sure!

 

[DLC]

Oh that’s a good NOTE !! 27 hp is the cut offffffffffff

 

[DWC]

Oh that’s a good NOTE !! 27 hp is the cut offffffffffff

Turbo and a shot of NOS. It’s all good

 

[Taboma]

For AZ? Excellent.

Don’t tell Taboma.

I know, I know, but there's that damned "Proof of residency" issue you and I can't agree about. I know everybody ignores it and the ladies at the DMV will accept a note from mom, but it just feels wrong.
I'm going to let Mr. OCMerrill go first and hopefully he'll be nice enough to report back if residency means residency as a condition or a suggestion.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I know, I know, but there's that damned "Proof of residency" issue you and I can't agree about. I know everybody ignores it and the ladies at the DMV will accept a note from mom, but it just feels wrong.
I'm going to let Mr. OCMerrill go first and hopefully he'll be nice enough to report back if residency means residency as a condition or a suggestion.




View attachment 1179115

You really want to do this again? You called and asked them already and they told you there are 2 ID classes. State ID and the Federal version. That doc is for the Federal “Real ID” (see the yellow star?)

And it just says residency. Not full time residency, not where you are taxed, Not where you get yore boat registered.

It even says MVD documents count as proof of residency- If you have a kid quad registered in AZ and they send correspondence to the AZ address on file, that counts.

 

[mjc]

I know, I know, but there's that damned "Proof of residency" issue you and I can't agree about. I know everybody ignores it and the ladies at the DMV will accept a note from mom, but it just feels wrong.
I'm going to let Mr. OCMerrill go first and hopefully he'll be nice enough to report back if residency means residency as a condition or a suggestion.

View attachment 1179115

When my son got his he got 2 pieces of mail sent to the house for him. He ordered stuff from Amazon with his name on them. Worked fine. Since most bills come email had to do it another way.

 

[Taboma]

You really want to do this again?

Those AZ folks of authority intimidate me. I'm already on their bad boy mailing list from that minor accidental and unintentional case of registration fraud years ago.
They send out scary letters and made threats of serious litigation and INCARCERATION and I've seen the movies, no way am I going to trade my aging ass so I can purchase and smuggle a banned generator into CA.
I'd sooner pay That's what's guys or who's what's guy, whatever --- 10% or is it 20% now ?

Anyway, I want OC to go first.

 

[Taboma]

When my son got his he got 2 pieces of mail sent to the house for him. He ordered stuff from Amazon with his name on them. Worked fine. Since most bills come email had to do it another way.

I've had the AZ address for 26 years, I'm not just able to put my hand on a bible and swear I'm an AZ resident. I just have a residence in AZ, not sure it's the same, you know, legally. Plus that episode where they've already sent me some seriously mean worded letters.