6 Balls - PEX Repipe

[LHC Kirby]

6 balls is http://www.pacificcoastcopperrepipe.com/index.html

His bid was not the lowest of 6 bids - $9250 - $14500..... he was the 2nd lowest. One of the reasons I went with him.. another reason is he was recommended on here.... another one was my wife and I liked his description of work to be done and to top it off, when he sent the quote via email he included a document with 120 PAGES of references... I know 10 people .... I called 6 of them... EVERYONE said they would use him again if they needed a repipe in a different house.

So don’t hesitant to to give Doug a call — be prepared for your house to be turned into Swiss cheese

 

[aaronschiada]

What county are you in if you dont mind me asking? Did he pull a permit? Did he have asbestos testing done in all the areas of drywall removal? Is he disinfecting the system when completed? Is he using isolaters where lines pass through studs or joists? Is he strapping properly? Is the piping cleanly ran and not a spaghetti mess of piping? Are the drywall cuts done with a level and cut straight for easy and clean repairs? You can probably assume that i know a little about this stuff. These "Repipe Specialists" are a dime a dozen. Hope it all works out well.

 

[Duck'ed_Up]

What county are you in if you dont mind me asking? Did he pull a permit? Did he have asbestos testing done in all the areas of drywall removal? Is he disinfecting the system when completed? Is he using isolaters where lines pass through studs or joists? Is he strapping properly? Is the piping cleanly ran and not a spaghetti mess of piping? Are the drywall cuts done with a level and cut straight for easy and clean repairs? You can probably assume that i know a little about this stuff. These "Repipe Specialists" are a dime a dozen. Hope it all works out well.

Maybe a dumb question but why go to the extent of using a level? It’s been my experience that no matter how good the plumbing company is or how well the drywall is cut, mud, and textured you can always see the repair. Only way it ever comes out right is to re-texture the whole wall. I know I have serious OCD though.


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[rrrr]

Because the drywall guy will have to trim each hole to expose half the stud, and true the top and bottom so he can use a rectangular patch instead of trying to cut and fit the sloping top and bottom.

Just cutting out the drywall without consideration for the patch is lazy and a sign of poor workmanship IMO.

 

[Duck'ed_Up]

Because the drywall guy will have to trim each hole to expose half the stud, and true the top and bottom so he can use a rectangular patch instead of trying to cut and fit the sloping top and bottom.

Just cutting out the drywall without consideration for the patch is lazy and a sign of poor workmanship IMO.

I would hope any person cutting a hole in the wall wouldn’t go all Ray Charles on it lol. I see your point though, square edges make for easy patch work.


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[Deckin Around]

What county are you in if you dont mind me asking? Did he pull a permit? Did he have asbestos testing done in all the areas of drywall removal? Is he disinfecting the system when completed? Is he using isolaters where lines pass through studs or joists? Is he strapping properly? Is the piping cleanly ran and not a spaghetti mess of piping? Are the drywall cuts done with a level and cut straight for easy and clean repairs? You can probably assume that i know a little about this stuff. These "Repipe Specialists" are a dime a dozen. Hope it all works out well.

100%.

 

[LHC Kirby]

What county are you in if you dont mind me asking? Did he pull a permit? Did he have asbestos testing done in all the areas of drywall removal? Is he disinfecting the system when completed? Is he using isolaters where lines pass through studs or joists? Is he strapping properly? Is the piping cleanly ran and not a spaghetti mess of piping? Are the drywall cuts done with a level and cut straight for easy and clean repairs? You can probably assume that i know a little about this stuff. These "Repipe Specialists" are a dime a dozen. Hope it all works out well.

WoW - so many questions... OC, yes permit, no test pretty sure my house is newer than that property problem, disinfecting? Not that I know of... but I know I flowed water from all outlets with Water strainers and shower heads off... pipes look great - very clean run and strapping, I went up in attic and looked at everything, inside every hole in the house - inside and out. The cuts were not as you described, but the patch work is amazing - of course the look after I paint will be the final judge. Stucco repair texture was a 100% dead on with proper preparation beforehand as well. I will add that they have been focused on repipe in their business for over 22 years, you obviously are in the business and sound like you are bitter to others?? Am I wrong?

 

[NicPaus]

Not a fan of repipe outfits but several inmates here have had 6Balls do there repipe. Pain in the ass for the homeowner either way. Looks like you will be good to go shortly LHC Kirby. Rest of the Guy's are commenting on experience which happens more often than not.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

One of the MANY reasons I prefer a raised foundation house. Makes and utility work MUCH easier!

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[ZBig boy 2]

Why did you have to replace all the plumbing?

 

[Deja_Vu]

Looking good to me. What a PIA!

Why did you have to replace all the plumbing?

Copper pipes develop pin hole leaks with the hard water over time.

 

[96scarab]

Dumb question but wouldn't it have been easier/faster just to remove all the drywall instead of cutting holes? Drywall is cheap.

 

[Riley1]

I did mine 5 years ago. PEX with a manifold. Home run for every fixture. I cut random holes and after doing the drywall l, I wish I would have used a strait edge and used the original drywall for the repair. It was a learning experience.
5 friends, 2 days, a couple cases of beer and $1500.
I should mention that was just to get the water going. I milked patching the holes for awhile. One room at a time.

 

[CigAjerk]

I have my guys use a drywall holesaw. That way all the pucks are the same exact size. Only thing the drywall guy needs to unfuck is 5/8 & 1/2 or texture/paint.

 

[Backlash]

Lots of knowledge and experience here. Once again, RDP delivers!

 

[LHC Kirby]

Why did you have to replace all the plumbing?

Many of my neighbors have had the pin holes in the pipe from the water additives. I have not - BUT it’s now done on my schedule instead of the pin hole leaks schedule. I easily could handle any leak except a foundation one. If I’m home.

It’s not going to get cheaper.
Volume of water is so much better through out the house and I added one hose bid and changed location of another.

So far, very happy we did it and I don’t see that changing.

I thought about the manifold option, but my 2 story home is a weird layout of 3500 sq ft and it just wasn’t practical.

 

[aaronschiada]

Not at all talking down about the guy that did your work. Just bringing up some valid questions and points. I own a 3rd generation plumbing company in Ventura County and we have been here since ‘65. So I kinda eat and sleep this stuff. We are a company that specializes in high quality craftsmanship and customer service...probably the biggest reason why it’s hard to find quality employees...high expectations!! Anyways...I bring these points up because for us...it’s all about the big picture, down to the little things like cutting drywall perfect or strapping water line runs 6” apart in a straight line. I’m not the cheapest company out there, but that’s why people use us. All the things I mentioned to you are state plumbing code. All new water systems have to be flushed with water and chlorine to kill any contaminated prior to final hook up. Ya...that’s a code!! Stupid...but true. The companies I have seen pop up throughout the area over the years don’t have the same core values that we do. And usually the customer finds out the hard way. Glad it worked out for you though. This industry is much like the boating industry...you get what you pay for...usually!

 

[NicPaus]

Never heard of the flush being code in LA city Torrance or any of the beach cities we work in. At a second generation plumbers house now doing a addition. Will ask the inspector to fail him on it Lol.

 

[rightytighty]

Check the wall to attic transitions. I see a lot of failures at about the 8-10 year mark where they just bend the pex line to transition into the attic. The line tends to kink at the bend and fail at the kink.

I also prefer when they insulate the pex lines and hang them high in the attic because of rats/mice (rodents take out more pex lines than anything else—- by far.)

 

[Cole Trickle]

They did a great job for me as well. When the city inspector came out he said it was one of the best and cleanest jobs he had inspected and he had been there for a long time.

I don't know how they do it but there patch/texture guy is really really good. There is only one place in my house where you can slightly tell its different and that is because I basically hand troweled my bathroom stucco. (Kustom)

Paint matching was a pita because we lost the colors over the previous 12 years. We had it matched and it was super close but still had to paint the complete wall vs. just touch up.

Doug was great I would 100% recommenced them.

 

[DRYHEAT]

Question for the plumbers, would ther be any issues with coiling up a couple hundred feet on the inside of an interior wall as long as there’s no sharp bends or kinks? Would it affect flow?

Would like to do this when I re-pipe my Havasu house so I can have some cool water in the summer.

Any thoughts or concerns would be appreciated.

 

[aaronschiada]

Question for the plumbers, would ther be any issues with coiling up a couple hundred feet on the inside of an interior wall as long as there’s no sharp bends or kinks? Would it affect flow?

Would like to do this when I re-pipe my Havasu house so I can have some cool water in the summer.

Any thoughts or concerns would be appreciated.

There will be friction loss. Depends on pipe size, material, length and static pressure.

 

[aaronschiada]

Never heard of the flush being code in LA city Torrance or any of the beach cities we work in. At a second generation plumbers house now doing a addition. Will ask the inspector to fail him on it Lol.

It’s a State code.

 

[LHC Kirby]

It’s a State code.

Interesting - never heard of it.... I don’t know if they did or not .

Thanks

 

[aaronschiada]

Interesting - never heard of it.... I don’t know if they did or not .

Thanks

Probably not. Not all inspectors enforce it. Also...the Asbestos testing is required in all houses regardless of age, where any joint compound or texture is to be disturbed. That is controlled by the AQCMD. This is something all contractors should be aware of. Major lawsuits have happened in my area due to ignorant contractors.

 

[85RiverRAT]

They did my house this year to. 41 holes in my place. Make sure they let the dry wall guy how many patches they will need to do. They sent me one guy and he drove in from Lancaster didn't leave my house until 11:30 at night. I was on a tight timeline to get the permits signed off so he stayed late to finish, I jumped in and started patching holes myself. The mud was still wet when the inspector came the next morning. Overall great work and haven't had a problem. This was back in Feb.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Well I guess I’m calling them. Thanks LHCKirby.

 

[76 Hondo]

Well I guess I’m calling them. Thanks LHCKirby.

I’ll be right behind you!

 

[stoker22405]

There will be friction loss. Depends on pipe size, material, length and static pressure.

What is your opinion on PEX vs Copper...Are repipes better to do in In Pex vs Copper?

 

[aaronschiada]

What is your opinion on PEX vs Copper...Are repipes better to do in In Pex vs Copper?

These days it’s PEX. We use Uponor PEX pipe. It comes with a 25 year limited warranty and a $50k insurance policy from the manufacturer, it’s four times quieter, four times more insulated, cheaper, faster to install, and way less soldering...which means less chance of fires. Although copper has its place, its expensive, comes with no manufacturers warranty, its loud, and does have a shorter life expectancy. Most copper repipe companies tend to use type M copper, it’s thinner, cheaper and solders faster. We only use Type L copper. We only use copper where the piping will be exposed. Hope this helps.

 

[lbhsbz]

These days it’s PEX. We use Uponor PEX pipe. It comes with a 25 year limited warranty and a $50k insurance policy from the manufacturer, it’s four times quieter, four times more insulated, cheaper, faster to install, and way less soldering...which means less chance of fires. Although copper has its place, its expensive, comes with no manufacturers warranty, its loud, and does have a shorter life expectancy. Most copper repipe companies tend to use type M copper, it’s thinner, cheaper and solders faster. We only use Type L copper. We only use copper where the piping will be exposed. Hope this helps.

That's interesting...even galvanized pipe lasts at least 50 years (my main line from the meter made it 75 years...was a wee bit restricted by that point, but didn't fail for 75 years)...can't imagine Type L that's soldered correctly having any issues sooner than that....but Pex is the new hot shit and they only give it a 25 year warranty?

 

[NicPaus]

That's interesting...even galvanized pipe lasts at least 50 years (my main line from the meter made it 75 years...was a wee bit restricted by that point, but didn't fail for 75 years)...can't imagine Type L that's soldered correctly having any issues sooner than that....but Pex is the new hot shit and they only give it a 25 year warranty?

Was talking with my buddy about going back to galvanized. He is a 3rd generation plumber. Might rust shut but no pin holes! He mentioned if they don't want PEX and want best he uses K on the repipe.

Few Plumbers I know still won't use pex only type L. Other friends that do more new construction plumbing only use Uponor PEX.

 

[Echo Lodge]

So I am a few weeks from starting a front yard remodel. My home was built in 65 and has copper. Was going to bury a new copper main line as a back up. Good idea or should I bury PEX?

 

[aaronschiada]

So I am a few weeks from starting a front yard remodel. My home was built in 65 and has copper. Was going to bury a new copper main line as a back up. Good idea or should I bury PEX?

You can’t bury PEX. But what you can do is bury a sleeve, and run the PEX through a sleeve. That would be the best way.

 

[aaronschiada]

Was talking with my buddy about going back to galvanized. He is a 3rd generation plumber. Might rust shut but no pin holes! He mentioned if they don't want PEX and want best he uses K on the repipe.

Few Plumbers I know still won't use pex only type L. Other friends that do more new construction plumbing only use Uponor PEX.

Whether it gets pin holes or rusts closed, the lines need replacing. Galvanized comes with no warranty either. So where is the benefit? It’s a pain in the ass to install, which means higher installation cost, and the materials are more expensive. Type K?!! Really? Nobody uses type K in domestic applications for good reasons...really hard to work with (heavy, hard to cut, takes longer to heat up and solder), and EXPENSIVE!!! The only contractors that do not use PEX pipe, are the ones that are afraid of it, and they are afraid of it cause they don’t know anything about it. They have been using PEX pipe for over 50 years on the East coast in radiant heating applications. It’s proven and comes with a warranty! How can you beat that?

 

[rrrr]

For the non-plumbers here, copper pipe is produced in three different wall thicknesses, M, L, and K.

Type M is the thinnest, available at Home Depot and used on cheap construction. Type L is better and also stocked by HD and Lowe's. Type K is the best, available at commercial supply outlets.

The significant alkaline content of water in some areas contributes greatly to the corrosion that results in pinholes and pipe failure. High water velocities and turbulence through fittings can deposit solids on the pipe walls. Because of this, most of the pinhole leaks I've seen occur close to the downstream side of 90s. Using heavier wall copper extends the life cycle considerably.

I retired before PEX came into common usage so I don't have any experience with it. However, it looks like a great product and I would definitely choose it over copper if I built a new house.

 

[NicPaus]

Whether it gets pin holes or rusts closed, the lines need replacing. Galvanized comes with no warranty either. So where is the benefit? It’s a pain in the ass to install, which means higher installation cost, and the materials are more expensive. Type K?!! Really? Nobody uses type K in domestic applications for good reasons...really hard to work with (heavy, hard to cut, takes longer to heat up and solder), and EXPENSIVE!!! The only contractors that do not use PEX pipe, are the ones that are afraid of it, and they are afraid of it cause they don’t know anything about it. They have been using PEX pipe for over 50 years on the East coast in radiant heating applications. It’s proven and comes with a warranty! How can you beat that?

The Buddy using K has already got calls for pin holes in pex. More of a joke when talking about it as what to use next. He uses K on a regular basis. I used it for my stub outs and risers on my Mom's repipe Uponor every where else. He has done whole house repipe with K. Manhattan beach they don't care about the price. It's the spot to be for new construction.

Plumber Friend whose job I am at now was afraid of it. Always talking about issues with it but no cases where he could show me pex was a issue. He held me up here waiting for next inspection so instead of waiting I did it myself. Usesd Uponor under house with copper rise and stub outs. He got mad at me at first but went and bought all new PEX tools and did the other half. All my plumber friends that do new construction primarily use Uponor.

 

[aaronschiada]

The Buddy using K has already got calls for pin holes in pex. More of a joke when talking about it as what to use next. He uses K on a regular basis. I used it for my stub outs and risers on my Mom's repipe Uponor every where else. He has done whole house repipe with K. Manhattan beach they don't care about the price. It's the spot to be for new construction.

Plumber Friend whose job I am at now was afraid of it. Always talking about issues with it but no cases where he could show me pex was a issue. He held me up here waiting for next inspection so instead of waiting I did it myself. Usesd Uponor under house with copper rise and stub outs. He got mad at me at first but went and bought all new PEX tools and did the other half. All my plumber friends that do new construction primarily use Uponor.

Of course...there’s nothing wrong with K...if the customer wants to pay for it. And it’s badass to have it in your house. But in most cases, just over the top.

 

[Echo Lodge]

You can’t bury PEX. But what you can do is bury a sleeve, and run the PEX through a sleeve. That would be the best way.

Thanks

 

[DirtyWhiteDog]

On a sode note, if doing pex with manifolds, put them over the bathtubs or showers. If there is ever an issue it will limit the damage.
The sanitation of the pipes is in the plumbing codes, but it's up to the individual entity on weather they require proof of it being done.

 

[Racey]

What county are you in if you dont mind me asking? Did he pull a permit? Did he have asbestos testing done in all the areas of drywall removal? Is he disinfecting the system when completed? Is he using isolaters where lines pass through studs or joists? Is he strapping properly? Is the piping cleanly ran and not a spaghetti mess of piping? Are the drywall cuts done with a level and cut straight for easy and clean repairs? You can probably assume that i know a little about this stuff. These "Repipe Specialists" are a dime a dozen. Hope it all works out well.

I'm just a dumbass machinist, but considering what shit you encounter opening the walls up, would it not be practical to rough cut the drywall holes first and get the plumbing all laid in, then come back after and ytim the holes square and split the studs? rather than trying to cut them square the first go around?

Regardless, looks like a complete fn' nightmare lol

 

[River Dirt 2]

Of course...there’s nothing wrong with K...if the customer wants to pay for it. And it’s badass to have it in your house. But in most cases, just over the top.

My house is 100% K copper. Our City requires it if you use copper.

 

[NicPaus]

My house is 100% K copper. Our City requires it if you use copper.

What city?

 

[aaronschiada]

My house is 100% K copper. Our City requires it if you use copper.

Never heard of that...but doesn’t mean it’s not true. The city can and do have their own ordinances...and some are so stupid and so buricratic!

I'm just a dumbass machinist, but considering what shit you encounter opening the walls up, would it not be practical to rough cut the drywall holes first and get the plumbing all laid in, then come back after and ytim the holes square and split the studs? rather than trying to cut them square the first go around?

Regardless, looks like a complete fn' nightmare lol

Cause that’s twice the work. Measure twice cut once! You know better than that! Hahaha

 

[River Dirt 2]

What city?

Bradbury. I think they got spooked because of the water, Duarte had a couple housing tracks with M copper and they all failed.

http://articles.latimes.com/1987-05-03/news/ga-8327_1_pinhole-leaks

 

[240Hallett]

What would be the best product to use in an under house/raised foundation repipe?

 

[NicPaus]

What would be the best product to use in an under house/raised foundation repipe?

Uponor PEX for all your horizontal runs and type K for vertical to stub out. Or all type K if you have animals and vermin under the house.

 

[aaronschiada]

Uponor PEX for all your horizontal runs and type K for vertical to stub out. Or all type K if you have animals and vermin under the house.

I agree with everything he said, with the exception of type K. I think type k is overkill. But it’s really personal preference. We have repiped a lot of houses in the last 50 years using type L. Zero call backs since. If you are gonna run a return line, than I would 100% go with PEX, at least on the hot system.

 

[Bobby V]

I'm just a dumbass machinist, but considering what shit you encounter opening the walls up, would it not be practical to rough cut the drywall holes first and get the plumbing all laid in, then come back after and ytim the holes square and split the studs? rather than trying to cut them square the first go around?

Regardless, looks like a complete fn' nightmare lol

Yep. That's how its done on the commercial side. Let the dry wall guy fix it. They don't want to save and identify which 100 pieces of drywall goes to which hole.

But I can see the savings if its a turn key project and the plumber has the patching and repair in their contract.

 

[NicPaus]

He asked what was best overkill is how most houses are engineered these days. Might as well go overkill on the water supply.

With that said my house has type L vertical and stub outs and Uponor Pex. Half the house will do rest when bathroom gets remodeled. I used what I had on hand when I did my Kitchen and laundry area remodel. K was not in the budget.