351M gurus

[Bigbore500r]

Ya it could be. I had both screws set at 1.5 turns to start. Was also thinking I was running low fuel, but that seems okay. Gauges are not working right now but you can tap on the tank behind the seat and hear that there's a fuel inches of fuel.

I also rebuilt the carbs, and had never done it before. It was simple enough but they send you parts for every carb know to man so I don't fully trust my rebuild. If for some reason I can't get it under control I'll go get it rebuilt just to eliminate a potential unknown problem.

Put a rag over the carb, partially obstructing the airflow. It should idle down. You probably have a large vacuum leak

 

[redone76]

Are you getting fuel to the carb? Fuel pump might have crapped out?

 

[YeahYeah01]

Put a rag over the carb, partially obstructing the airflow. It should idle down. You probably have a large vacuum leak

Ya with the other comments I'm thinking the back valley rtv didn't seal as good as I thought.

 

[YeahYeah01]

Are you getting fuel to the carb? Fuel pump might have crapped out?

I didn't pull the line off, assuming it's getting fuel since it ran for a bit, the fuel pump is brand new but it could be junk. A bunch of people have issues with them.

 

[YeahYeah01]

Ya with the other comments I'm thinking the back valley rtv didn't seal as good as I thought.

It was running pretty dam smooth before the high idle kicked up, pulling decent vacuum as well so maybe if one spot wasn't thick enough with the RTV is gave out. The gaps on the valley was pretty large and the metal there is not that thick so you can't just run one single bead of rtv and it be thick enough to seal so had to go over twice. The front looks perfect, back was blind but I'll put the mirror on it and see if I can see anything

 

[oldboatsrule]

Use a flashlight to look down the carb and as you open the throttle. You should be able to see the accelerator pump squirting fuel. If you don't, you're outta fuel

Those valley areas won't leak vacuum. Only oil.

 

[YeahYeah01]

Use a flashlight to look down the carb and as you open the throttle. You should be able to see the accelerator pump squirting fuel. If you don't, you're outta fuel

Those valley areas won't leak vacuum. Only oil.

I'll try that.

There is only 3 vac lines on this truck. Vac advance, brake booster, and PCV. Everything else is capped so at least I dont have to hunt to much lol.

 

[wzuber]

I'll try that.

There is only 3 vac lines on this truck. Vac advance, brake booster, and PCV. Everything else is capped so at least I dont have to hunt to much lol.

Are the caps new/fresh rubber or vynil? Could 1 have possibly cracked?

 

[YeahYeah01]

Are the caps new/fresh rubber or vynil? Could 1 have possibly cracked?

Brand new and tight for that reason.

 

[YeahYeah01]

Checked things out this morning. Looking at the back valley with a mirror things seem sealed up, no oil residue or anything obvious. Pulled the carb because I think I'll have it rebuilt just to make sure.

Did find one suspect spot on the intake where is mating with the head. Looks like. A small leak to me.

 

[YeahYeah01]

This thing is kicking my ass lol. I don't know how I got it running even for that short time.

As of right now, I had the carb professional rebuilt this week and the tested it on a motor in front of me. He said one of the jets were varnished bad allowing to much fuel. I replaced the plugs and set the gap all at .44. I replaced the HEI distributor since the Mallory was just pissing me off with absolutely zero clearance to take the cap off to access the plug wires.

I did a compression test as well and all right around 90psi.

Verified that I was at TDC on compression stroke by putting my finger over the #1 plug hole. And even cheked that the cylinder is indeed at the top by putting a push rod in the hole and hand cranking, the balancer seems to line perfect. Stabbed the new distubtor pointing just before the number 1 plug tower to try and get it slightly advanced for start up. Set the wires starting at the number tower and then per the firing order.

Checked all vac lines and possible leaks, at least as much as I could without a running motor.

Attempted to start and it will fire immediately and die, a few more attempts and it will spit from carb and eventually fire ball. I messed with the disturbor a ton trying to find the sweet spot and 0 luck. Same results.

I also tried setting the disturbor dead on the #1 tower at TDC. Then at 6 degrees on the balancer. A few other combos to. That is part of the reason I bought a new distributor since the power wire came off I thought maybe my solder job was not cutting it.

Vac advance it disconnected and plugged for the moment.

Firing order has the 5 and 6 firing in sequence so I've made sure those wires are not interesting.

Got the battery charging now and sitting in the garage questioning my sanity lol.

 

[90 Laveycraft]

This thing is kicking my ass lol. I don't know how I got it running even for that short time.

As of right now, I had the carb professional rebuilt this week and the tested it on a motor in front of me. He said one of the jets were varnished bad allowing to much fuel. I replaced the plugs and set the gap all at .44. I replaced the HEI distributor since the Mallory was just pissing me off with absolutely zero clearance to take the cap off to access the plug wires.

I did a compression test as well and all right around 90psi.

Verified that I was at TDC on compression stroke by putting my finger over the #1 plug hole. And even cheked that the cylinder is indeed at the top by putting a push rod in the hole and hand cranking, the balancer seems to line perfect. Stabbed the new distubtor pointing just before the number 1 plug tower to try and get it slightly advanced for start up. Set the wires starting at the number tower and then per the firing order.

Checked all vac lines and possible leaks, at least as much as I could without a running motor.

Attempted to start and it will fire immediately and die, a few more attempts and it will spit from carb and eventually fire ball. I messed with the disturbor a ton trying to find the sweet spot and 0 luck. Same results.

I also tried setting the disturbor dead on the #1 tower at TDC. Then at 6 degrees on the balancer. A few other combos to. That is part of the reason I bought a new distributor since the power wire came off I thought maybe my solder job was not cutting it.

Vac advance it disconnected and plugged for the moment.

Firing order has the 5 and 6 firing in sequence so I've made sure those wires are not interesting.

Got the battery charging now and sitting in the garage questioning my sanity lol.

Well your doing everything right. Popping thru the carb is valve timing/order...knowing thats right - could the issue be were you started on this...the bent pushrods. Have you rolled over the engine and confirmed all 16 valves are opening and closing completely the with the new pushrods?
Did you change all 16?

 

[Your ad here]

Is the cam timing off?

 

[wzuber]

I'm begining to wonder if the cam might have a uniqe firing pattern swap? I thought he mentioned something early on in this deal about the cam being different or at least 'not stock'. Do they make ford cams with a lobe swap like the chevy 4/7 swap? At this point it doesn't seem like it would hurt to try an alternative cam pattern. I know there is at least 1 different factory pattern possibility from the search last weekend.

 

[wzuber]

Btw....that stated compression is about half or so of what it should be. That's barely firing the plugs. The stock static compression should be around 150 psi for a healthy 8:1 C.R.

 

[4Waters]

I'm begining to wonder if the cam might have a uniqe firing pattern swap? I thought he mentioned something early on in this deal about the cam being different or at least 'not stock'. Do they make ford cams with a lobe swap like the chevy 4/7 swap? At this point it doesn't seem like it would hurt to try an alternative cam pattern. I know there is at least 1 different factory pattern possibility from the search last weekend.

13726548 is the 4/7 swap. If you number chevys cylinders like ford's the 4/7 swap is the same order. My chevy buddy told me that and it pisses him off that running a Ford order makes more power in a chevy

It is either
15426378 early, this is what it should be
Or
13726548 late

 

[4Waters]

Btw....that stated compression is about half or so of what it should be. That's barely firing the plugs. The stock static compression should be around 150 psi for a healthy 8:1 C.R.

I was going to say this. The compression is way low

 

[coolchange]

I was going to say this. The compression is way low

Maybe the cam is ground wrong

 

[4Waters]

Maybe the cam is ground wrong

No shit, that damn vw is killing us

 

[90 Laveycraft]

I was going to say this. The compression is way low

Flat cam lobe or lobes...

 

[4Waters]

Flat cam lobe or lobes...

All of the cylinders? Possibly but not likely

 

[YeahYeah01]

Well your doing everything right. Popping thru the carb is valve timing/order...knowing thats right - could the issue be were you started on this...the bent pushrods. Have you rolled over the engine and confirmed all 16 valves are opening and closing completely the with the new pushrods?
Did you change all 16?

Ya I changed all of them before I even attempted to start it and hand cranked to makes sure everything was moving freely.

 

[YeahYeah01]

All of the cylinders? Possibly but not likely

I thought so to. But all lifters looked great and moved perfectly. I had the intake off so I could verify by hand cranking.

I lost the battle though. Engine and trans are getting pulled soon.

The dam started solenoid got stuck open and in the 10 seconds it looks for me to rip the ground off the battery I broke a handfull of teeth on the ring gear. I started hearing a different noise an thought the started was going out but negative . Everything I looked up it's easier to pull the motor and trans then dropping the trans.

There is also I leak coming from the main seal either or pan gasket so I'll change that to. But shitty I didn't get it running so when I put it back in I'll still have issues.

 

[90 Laveycraft]

All of the cylinders? Possibly but not likely

Lobe or lobes...1 or 2 is all it would take.

 

[4Waters]

Lobe or lobes...1 or 2 is all it would take.

To cause low compression in all the cylinders

 

[YeahYeah01]

To cause low compression in all the cylinders

Compression showed 90 across the board.

 

[oldboatsrule]

With 90psi in all holes, I'll go with bad gauge

 

[4Waters]

Compression showed 90 across the board.

I know, 1 or 2 flat lobes will only effect those cylinders, not all of them

 

[YeahYeah01]

I know, 1 or 2 flat lobes will only effect those cylinders, not all of them

Would I not see complete valve and exhaust moving while hand cranking if I had I flat lobes?

 

[YeahYeah01]

Slight

With 90psi in all holes, I'll go with bad gauge

Slight variation but all close to that number. But definitely could be. It's a rental gauge. But that would also suck lol.

 

[coolchange]

Slight

Slight variation but all close to that number. But definitely could be. It's a rental gauge. But that would also suck lol.

Are you holding the carb open during comp test? Leak down will tell you more.

 

[sonicss31]

Have not seen this mentioned so here goes. Most of those Ford motors had a nylon timing gear and the chain would stretch just enough that the chain would skip just one tooth messing with timing. Only way to verify is to open the front of motor and check that out.

 

[YeahYeah01]

Btw....that stated compression is about half or so of what it should be. That's barely firing the plugs. The stock static compression should be around 150 psi for a healthy 8:1 C.R.

I'm going to get the ring gear swapped and try the compression test again. I'm wondering if that had something to do with it.

 

[YeahYeah01]

Are you holding the carb open during comp test? Leak down will tell you more.

I did not.

 

[YeahYeah01]

Realistically. I'm about to go through the effort to pull the motor to get to the ring gear. I think I may just get the engine refreshed while it's out. To go through all this and then put the motor back in and still have issues will not be fun.

 

[4Waters]

Would I not see complete valve and exhaust moving while hand cranking if I had I flat lobes?

If you have a couple flat lobes you would have noticeable difference in rocker movement from good lobes, the valve should be getting pushed down just shy of a 1/2"

 

[4Waters]

Have not seen this mentioned so here goes. Most of those Ford motors had a nylon timing gear and the chain would stretch just enough that the chain would skip just one tooth messing with timing. Only way to verify is to open the front of motor and check that out.

This is a possibility, talking to @coolchange about this yesterday but usually only happens on higher mileage engines.

 

[wzuber]

13726548 is the 4/7 swap. If you number chevys cylinders like ford's the 4/7 swap is the same order. My chevy buddy told me that and it pisses him off that running a Ford order makes more power in a chevy

It is either
15426378 early, this is what it should be
Or
13726548 late

Per previous posts from last weekend he's going off of the latter order...
13726548
This could explain the low compression amongst other issues?

 

[4Waters]

Per previous posts from last weekend he's going off of the latter order...
13726548
This could explain the low compression amongst other issues?

That wouldn't change the compression but it could be the poping through the carb

 

[wzuber]

That wouldn't change the compression but it could be the poping through the carb

true, that would only likely have individual cyl.'s in various states of open/closed valves more like a tooth off type scenario....and cyl pressures would vary not be so even. In retrospect, the bad gauge seems to be the most reasonable explanation. I guess I got carried with my spit-ballin........my bad. lol
carry on.

 

[4Waters]

true, that would only likely have individual cyl.'s in various states of open/closed valves more like a tooth off type scenario....and cyl pressures would vary not be so even. In retrospect, the bad gauge seems to be the most reasonable explanation. I guess I got carried with my spit-ballin........my bad. lol
carry on.

Now if the timing chain skipped a tooth or 2 that could cause low compression

 

[wzuber]

Are you holding the carb open during comp test? Leak down will tell you more.

agreed....a good/propper leakdown test isolates and identifies ea. cyl. specific issue. it would certainly be a very simple and highly beneficial test prior to eng... teardown........... unless of course one's looking for a good justification to rebuild an engine and make............mo powwa. haha
a bore scope would also be a worthy thing to do prior to a teardown to verify the condition of the cyl. walls. If the engine builder didn't clean the bores or pistons correctly prior to assembly they could be very scored and losing compression......(or somehow the engine ingested a bunch of dirt etc. not always a builder related issue)
sooooo many possibilities here.

 

[YeahYeah01]

agreed....a good/propper leakdown test isolates and identifies ea. cyl. specific issue. it would certainly be a very simple and highly beneficial test prior to eng... teardown........... unless of course one's looking for a good justification to rebuild an engine and make............mo powwa. haha
a bore scope would also be a worthy thing to do prior to a teardown to verify the condition of the cyl. walls. If the engine builder didn't clean the bores or pistons correctly prior to assembly they could be very scored and losing compression......(or somehow the engine ingested a bunch of dirt etc. not always a builder related issue)
sooooo many possibilities here.

Lol. Engine is coming out regardless now. Truck is dam tall and the picker can reach up high enough so I took the front clip off today.

I'll sleep on the idea of a full rebuilt and making it a 400 for a couple days. With the effort to take the motor out to get to the ring gear I will probably go that route. But with it out and on a stand I can check things out a lot more and figure out if it's worth it or not.

I'm fairly certain the block is original with no rebuilds on it. Just top end work and the cam.

 

[4Waters]

Lol. Engine is coming out regardless now. Truck is dam tall and the picker can reach up high enough so I took the front clip off today.

I'll sleep on the idea of a full rebuilt and making it a 400 for a couple days. With the effort to take the motor out to get to the ring gear I will probably go that route. But with it out and on a stand I can check things out a lot more and figure out if it's worth it or not.

I'm fairly certain the block is original with no rebuilds on it. Just top end work and the cam.

That came with a Duraspark ignition. That was a fairly reliable system, if you can get a original distributor and the harness that goes between the distributor and the module (3 wire harness if I remember correctly) you can pick up a Duraspark module from Autozone and I would go that route.

 

[YeahYeah01]

That came with a Duraspark ignition. That was a fairly reliable system, if you can get a original distributor and the harness that goes between the distributor and the module (3 wire harness if I remember correctly) you can pick up a Duraspark module from Autozone and I would go that route.

I was looking at that to, I ended up with just a cheap HEI from Amazon to replace the Mallory that was pissing off just to eliminate a maybe problem. But maybe going old school with the dura spark would be a better option.

 

[4Waters]

I was looking at that to, I ended up with just a cheap HEI from Amazon to replace the Mallory that was pissing off just to eliminate a maybe problem. But maybe going old school with the dura spark would be a better option.

Here's a harness

510824 - American Autowire Ford Duraspark Ignition Harness. Installation | ProFit Auto Interiors, Anniston AL

Genuine American Autowire Part # 510824 - Ford Duraspark Ignition Harness. Installation. Ships from ProFit Auto Interiors, Anniston AL

www.profitautointeriors.com

The only thing that went out on those was the magnetic pick-up, pops carried an extra module and magnetic pick-up in the motorhome incase one went out, 10-15min and back on the road if there was a problem and had to put a pick-up in once.

 

[YeahYeah01]

Here's a harness

510824 - American Autowire Ford Duraspark Ignition Harness. Installation | ProFit Auto Interiors, Anniston AL

Genuine American Autowire Part # 510824 - Ford Duraspark Ignition Harness. Installation. Ships from ProFit Auto Interiors, Anniston AL

www.profitautointeriors.com

The only thing that went out on those was the magnetic pick-up, pops carried an extra module and magnetic pick-up in the motorhome incase one went out, 10-15min and back on the road if there was a problem and had to put a pick-up in once.

View attachment 1366366

Here's a harness

510824 - American Autowire Ford Duraspark Ignition Harness. Installation | ProFit Auto Interiors, Anniston AL

Genuine American Autowire Part # 510824 - Ford Duraspark Ignition Harness. Installation. Ships from ProFit Auto Interiors, Anniston AL

www.profitautointeriors.com

The only thing that went out on those was the magnetic pick-up, pops carried an extra module and magnetic pick-up in the motorhome incase one went out, 10-15min and back on the road if there was a problem and had to put a pick-up in once.

View attachment 1366366

Simple and efficient. Thanks.

 

[YeahYeah01]

Not too many better feeling then this lol.

Of course that start of it is horrible. Dam flywheel bolt snapped.

 

[4Waters]

Any updates

 

[Rajobigguy]

Not too many better feeling then this lol.

Of course that start of it is horrible. Dam flywheel bolt snapped.

For future reference. If you’re going to be extracting broken bolts you can’t do better than this kit. It will save you hours of frustration.