351M gurus

[wzuber]

Your Q's
#1) the rotor points to the #1 cyl. Put the plug wire on the terminal that the rotor is pointing to. The remaining wires follow the firing order only.

1st off.....did you remove any lifters while intake was off? If yes, did you make certain each one went back in exact hole where it came from?

What process did you use to very TDC on compression stroke?

You can dead time it for start, then adjust to improve idle, then set w/timing light & vacuum gauge. Do you have a vacuum gauge?

 

[YeahYeah01]

It absolutely matters what order the wires go in. I don’t speak ford, so I don’t know what the firing order is on that thing…I know ford had a few different firing orders over the years. When in doubt, roll the engine over and what the order in which the intake valves open…that’s your firing order:

Whenever I stab a distributor, set crabs to tDC on compression for #1, I mark where #1 is and line it up exactly, the turn the body against rotor rotation so my mark is about 1/4” behind the rotor tip…that usually lands me somewhere around 10 degrees BTDC. The draw an arrow on the cap so you don’t forget which way is spins, and get all the wires in the correct spot

I know the correct firing order

Your Q's
#1) the rotor points to the #1 cyl. Put the plug wire on the terminal that the rotor is pointing to. The remaining wires follow the firing order only.

1st off.....did you remove any lifters while intake was off? If yes, did you make certain each one went back in exact hole where it came from?

What process did you use to very TDC on compression stroke?

You can dead time it for start, then adjust to improve idle, then set w/timing light & vacuum gauge. Do you have a vacuum gauge?

Okay, I know the correct firing order, it's, 1,3,7,2,6,5,4,8, just seems off since the wires have to Cross all over to get the respective cylinder. So I'll switch it around so each one on the distributor synces with the firing order.

I did pull the lifters but did it one at a time so it for sure is on the same location.

I set it to TDC by the timing marks but also used a rod in the number cylinder to make sure it was at the top of the strock.

I have a vac gauge and timing light. But gotta get it started first lol.

 

[YeahYeah01]

Sorry on the weird reply, I was replying to ibhsbz and then closed it and when I went back started a new reply and it got jumbled. I appreciate everyones help!

 

[wzuber]

I know the correct firing order

Okay, I know the correct firing order, it's, 1,3,7,2,6,5,4,8, just seems off since the wires have to Cross all over to get the respective cylinder. So I'll switch it around so each one on the distributor synces with the firing order.

I did pull the lifters but did it one at a time so it for sure is on the same location.

I set it to TDC by the timing marks but also used a rod in the number cylinder to make sure it was at the top of the strock.

Ok, that is the correct fr. Order if it's a stock cam for that year model eng. The order could be different (15426378) if it happens to have an early model 289/302 cam in it. (According to google)
Stay w/ the order you have for now.

#1 piston is @ TDC....TWICe.....during a 4 stroke cycle so you could possibly be on the exhaust stroke...180 degrees off from compression stroke. Can you watch the valves open/close while you rotate the crankshaft?

 

[lbhsbz]

I know the correct firing order

Okay, I know the correct firing order, it's, 1,3,7,2,6,5,4,8, just seems off since the wires have to Cross all over to get the respective cylinder. So I'll switch it around so each one on the distributor synces with the firing order.

I did pull the lifters but did it one at a time so it for sure is on the same location.

I set it to TDC by the timing marks but also used a rod in the number cylinder to make sure it was at the top of the strock.

I have a vac gauge and timing light. But gotta get it started first lol.

Do yourself a favor and go around the cap (in the direction the rotor turns….that’s the important part lol) and write the firing order starting with #1. Much easier to not fuck up that way.

 

[lbhsbz]

I know the correct firing order

Okay, I know the correct firing order, it's, 1,3,7,2,6,5,4,8, just seems off since the wires have to Cross all over to get the respective cylinder. So I'll switch it around so each one on the distributor synces with the firing order.

I did pull the lifters but did it one at a time so it for sure is on the same location.

I set it to TDC by the timing marks but also used a rod in the number cylinder to make sure it was at the top of the strock.

I have a vac gauge and timing light. But gotta get it started first lol.

You don’t need to start it to time it….you can crank it with only the #1 wire installed and set base timing.

 

[wzuber]

The exhaust valve is located directly above the exhaust port. The intake valve is located directly in line & below the intake runner @ the head.
The intake valve will open on the intake stroke and piston is moving down the cylinder then close when the piston is @ the bottom of the cylinder and just starts heading back up. The intake valve will close here and you are starting on the compression stroke. When BOTH valves are closed and the piston moves to the top of the cylinder that's TDC of the compression stroke. This is when the plug should fire. The balancer should be @ zero @ this TDC stroke. Then you can dead time from there with just the #1 plug wire in place. Then install remaining wires in firing order and attempt a start.

 

[YeahYeah01]

You don’t need to start it to time it….you can crank it with only the #1 wire installed and set base timing.

I for sure did not know that. Got to try to find my button starter.

 

[wzuber]

Www.ford-trucks.com
This may be helpful in your future...near or far. Haha
You can search 351m firing order for quick reference.

 

[jetboatperformance]

Do Google search for a 351 Midland firing order diagram take your number one spark plug out have someone tap the engine over till you get number one lined up on the vibration damper and it pops your finger off on the compression stroke according to the diagram and put your rotor at number one. It may take a few tries because of the style of the oil pump drive Rhonda Ford have but take your time, once you get number one established on the distributor, then correspond it on the cap and start wearing from that in the correct rotation according to the diagram

 

[wzuber]

Do Google search for a 351 Midland firing order diagram take your number one spark plug out have someone tap the engine over till you get number one lined up on the vibration damper and it pops your finger off on the compression stroke according to the diagram and put your rotor at number one. It may take a few tries because of the style of the oil pump drive Rhonda Ford have but take your time, once you get number one established on the distributor, then correspond it on the cap and start wearing from that in the correct rotation according to the diagram

What does Rhonda have to do with the oil pump drive and ford??? Did she invent it? I thought she was your sammich make? Haha

 

[jetboatperformance]

What does Rhonda have to do with the oil pump drive and ford??? Did she invent it? I thought she was your sammich make? Haha

Nothing really but I can’t edit from this phone for some reason so I figured I’d do it on my desktop later lol it should’ve just said on Ford the oil pump driver Rod yada yada

 

[wzuber]

Nothing really but I can’t edit from this phone for some reason so I figured I’d do it on my desktop later lol it should’ve just said on Ford the oil pump driver Rod yada yada

Oh, that makes sense....
I thought maybe you were doing a voice text and turettes kicked in for a sec and you yelled your wifes name....haha

 

[wzuber]

Well, he hasn't been back with more questions for awhile so either he is still looking for his remote start switch or got it done and is out on a victory tour..lol
I hope for him the latter...

 

[YeahYeah01]

Well, he hasn't been back with more questions for awhile so either he is still looking for his remote start switch or got it done and is out on a victory tour..lol
I hope for him the latter...

No victory lap yet? LOL.

One of the valve cover bolts broke so that's always fun.

I couldn't find my push button starter, but figured I was pretty close so attempted to start but it's not firing at all. Pulled the plug and I have no spark now. I ran a wire direct to the coil from the battery just to make sure but I still don't have spark for some reason.

 

[4Waters]

No victory lap yet? LOL.

One of the valve cover bolts broke so that's always fun.

I couldn't find my push button starter, but figured I was pretty close so attempted to start but it's not firing at all. Pulled the plug and I have no spark now. I ran a wire direct to the coil from the battery just to make sure but I still don't have spark for some reason.

Sorry if I missed it but where are you?

 

[YeahYeah01]

Sorry if I missed it but where are you?

Apple valley CA.

 

[4Waters]

Apple valley CA.

To far for me to come stab the dizzy for you

 

[Bigbore500r]

To far for me to come stab the dizzy for you

Please don’t ever call the distributor a dizzy again

 

[YeahYeah01]

To far for me to come stab the dizzy for you

No worries. I appreciate it.

It has spark earlier so not sure what I missed but I'll retrace my steps on another day and see whats going on.

 

[4Waters]

Please don’t ever call the distributor a dizzy again

Dizzy, dizzy, dizzy

 

[wzuber]

Please don’t ever call the distributor a dizzy again

Oh come on man......that's what all the kuul kids are calling nowadays. You gotta get hip bro....lol

 

[wzuber]

No worries. I appreciate it.

It has spark earlier so not sure what I missed but I'll retrace my steps on another day and see whats going on.

Prolly a good idea at this point. Give youself a break and let the info & experience sink in and come together for the next effort.
Horrible freight has those remote starter switchs for like $10.00. May be less time consuming to just buy 1. Haha...
Good effort by you. Your getting there, closer to the finish line. Once you get the dist. Verified correctly installed all the rest will come together pretty quickly, easily, but that step is critical. Reference that ford web site for helpful tips and insights in the mean time.
Does the truck have a starter relay on the firewall, fender etc?

 

[wzuber]

No victory lap yet? LOL.

One of the valve cover bolts broke so that's always fun.

I couldn't find my push button starter, but figured I was pretty close so attempted to start but it's not firing at all. Pulled the plug and I have no spark now. I ran a wire direct to the coil from the battery just to make sure but I still don't have spark for some reason.

Which side of the coil did you hook to? Pos. Or neg.?

 

[YeahYeah01]

Prollyba good idea at this point. Give youself a break and let the info & experience sink in and come together for the next effort.
Horrible freight has those remot starter swiths for like $10.00. May be lass time consuming to just buy 1. Haha...
Good effort by you. Your getting there closer to the finish line. Once you get the dist. Verified correctly installed all the rest will come together pretty quickly, easily, but that step is critical. Reference that ford web site for helpful tips and insights in the mean time.
Does the truck have a starter relay on the firewall, fender etc?

Ya that's what I'm thinking, sometimes you need to fall back and regroup.

It does have the starter relay on the fender.

I feel decent that the distributor is in correctly now. I followed the steps in thread pretty close and made sure it was at TDC on the compression struck, dropped in the distributor where even when it rotated into the gear it was pointing right at the number 1 cylinder. Put the plugs back in and set the plugs wires at the corrected firing order. I just couldn't do the dead timing. Thought it would start up but just crancked. It.for.sure had spark earlier when I had the wires set wrong so something happened when I reinstalled distributor. Just not sure what.

 

[YeahYeah01]

Which side of the coil did you hook to? Pos. Or neg.?

The positive side. I did screw up earlier when it did try and start, I grabbed the plug from the auto choke on the carb instead of the coil wire. This time the choke wire went to where it was supposed to go and the actual coil wire to the positive side of the coil. Tried to start and nothing. Left the key on the run position and have no power at the coil wire while it's unplugged from coil. So then I tried running a direct hot from the battery to coil. Still no start, so a plug and grounded it out and had my 7 year old turn the key for me lol no spark at the plug. That's when I started picking up the tools and opened a beer lol.

 

[wzuber]

The positive side. I did screw up earlier when it did try and start, I grabbed the plug from the auto choke on the carb instead of the coil wire. This time the choke wire went to where it was supposed to go and the actual coil wire to the positive side of the coil. Tried to start and nothing. Left the key on the run position and have no power at the coil wire while it's unplugged from coil. So then I tried running a direct hot from the battery to coil. Still no start, so a plug and grounded it out and had my 7 year old turn the key for me lol no spark at the plug. That's when I started picking up the tools and opened a beer lol.

Lol... I understand. A good cold beer and some reflection may prove very useful.
Maybe one of the other guys here can help you test the coil and other components to see if it/they died in this process or possibly cooked the module in the......distributor or just what may have occured there. I'm out of use in that dept.
You can jump start it with an insulated handle screw driver across the 2 small poles of the starter relay if need be.
Good luck bud, your gettin there and learning along the way. All good stuff.

 

[YeahYeah01]

Lol... I understand. A good cold beer and some reflection may prove very useful. Marbe one of the other guys here can help you test the coil to see if if died in this process or possibly cooked the module in the......distributor or just what may have occured there. I'm.out of talent at that

Lol thanks! Ya I figured I'd pull the top off again and make sure at least nothing loose on me.

 

[90 Laveycraft]

#1 is the farthest cylinder forward on most all motors...

 

[YeahYeah01]

#1 is the farthest cylinder forward on most all motors... View attachment 1362788

Ya that's the order I have on my intake manifold as wellI, but I guess I'm still confused on the distributor wire orders though. What I thought was after setting the number 1 cylinder TDC and having the rotor pointing at number 1. Now the plug port right after the rotor is for the number 1 cylinder. Then I assumed every plug port after number would go in that firing order. So the 2nd plug would be for the number 3 cylinder and 3rd port for 7th, 4th port for the 2 nd cylinder and so on.

Am I missing something?

 

[4Waters]

Ya that's the order I have on my intake manifold as wellI, but I guess I'm still confused on the distributor wire orders though. What I thought was after setting the number 1 cylinder TDC and having the rotor pointing at number 1. Now the plug port right after the rotor is for the number 1 cylinder. Then I assumed every plug port after number would go in that firing order. So the 2nd plug would be for the number 3 cylinder and 3rd port for 7th, 4th port for the 2 nd cylinder and so on.

Am I missing something?

You actually have to turn past where you want the rotor to be, when the distributor seats the rotor will be pointed at number one.

 

[90 Laveycraft]

Ya that's the order I have on my intake manifold as wellI, but I guess I'm still confused on the distributor wire orders though. What I thought was after setting the number 1 cylinder TDC and having the rotor pointing at number 1. Now the plug port right after the rotor is for the number 1 cylinder. Then I assumed every plug port after number would go in that firing order. So the 2nd plug would be for the number 3 cylinder and 3rd port for 7th, 4th port for the 2 nd cylinder and so on.

Am I missing something?

 

[YeahYeah01]

You actually have to turn past where you want the rotor to be, when the distributor seats the rotor will be pointed at number one.

Ya that's how I did it. I made sure when it seated it was pointed at #1.

 

[YeahYeah01]

Would this be the same regardless of what distributor you have?

 

[4Waters]

Would this be the same regardless of what distributor you have?

If you are asking about the firing order the answer is yes, the cam decides the firing order not the distributor

 

[YeahYeah01]

If you are asking about the firing order the answer is yes, the cam decides the firing order not the distributor

It finally makes sense to me. My mind could not grasp the correct order, it's counter clockwise, that's what was screwing me up.

Still does not explain the no spark though. And at least I feel good about the position of the distributor. But one problem at a time lol.

 

[lbhsbz]

If you are asking about the firing order the answer is yes, the cam decides the firing order not the distributor

We used to do tuesday nights down at my machine shop with all the other miscreants with nothing better to do....grill off some asada, drink beer, tell lies, etc....

Owner was stuffing a new motor in his car (ford junk) and I was all up in it, because that's what I did. He goes to fire it and its spiting all over the place. We tried "the other" ford firing order...still no dice. Found an old clymer manual referencing a 2 year only econoline van SBF with a 3rd firing order....tried that and it ran. He didn't know where the cam came from....it was "some badass cam" from a buddy.....

Ford is dumb.

 

[YeahYeah01]

Small success this morning. Wanted to try a couple things before work. Pulled the top of the distributor, and a wire came loose from it solider joint. Really shitty design. You have to take the top off to put the plugs on but they give you only about 2" of clearance and if you try and flip on on it top you pull a wire lose like I did. I re-Solider it and have spark, he rest the wire to correct location. I was able to get it to fire off gas in the carb but not under its own yet.

 

[Bigbore500r]

Dizzy, dizzy, dizzy

Be careful
If you say it 3 times, a kid in a modded honda civic appears

 

[YeahYeah01]

One more success. I was able to get it running and ideling well. Had a vacuum gauge hooked to make sure it was steady and not bouncing around like before with the bent rods. It was sitting right around 10.

But just as I was getting ready to mess with the timing it randomly starting ideling way to high. Had to shut it down and then it didn't want to fire back up. So the quest still continues but it sounded pretty good while it lasted lol.

 

[coolchange]

One more success. I was able to get it running and ideling well. Had a vacuum gauge hooked to make sure it was steady and not bouncing around like before with the bent rods. It was sitting right around 10.

But just as I was getting ready to mess with the timing it randomly starting ideling way to high. Had to shut it down and then it didn't want to fire back up. So the quest still continues but it sounded pretty good while it lasted lol.

Leaned out carb empty?

 

[wzuber]

That or possibly drawing air below the carb leaning it out. Maybe the carb bolts are not quite tight enough? Or? He did have the intake man. off recently.

 

[YeahYeah01]

Leaned out carb empty?

Ya it could be. I had both screws set at 1.5 turns to start. Was also thinking I was running low fuel, but that seems okay. Gauges are not working right now but you can tap on the tank behind the seat and hear that there's a fuel inches of fuel.

I also rebuilt the carbs, and had never done it before. It was simple enough but they send you parts for every carb know to man so I don't fully trust my rebuild. If for some reason I can't get it under control I'll go get it rebuilt just to eliminate a potential unknown problem.

 

[YeahYeah01]

That or possibly drawing air below the carb leaning it out. Maybe the carb bolts are not quite tight enough? Or? He did have the intake man. off recently.

Also possible, I'll check the carb bolts. Hopefully not the intake. I felt pretty good how it seated. I followed the factory torque procedures.

It did idle pretty well for about 3 to 5 mins.

 

[wzuber]

Also possible, I'll check the carb bolts. Hopefully not the intake. I felt pretty good how it seated. I followed the factory torque procedures.

It did idle pretty well for about 3 to 5 mins.

Then something likely changed. You can use carb cleaner or wd40 to spray around intake man. gasket., carb. Etc. To help find/isolate a leak. Rpm will change while spraying.
Note: always a good idea to keep a fire extinguisher handy while doing this type stuff....just in case.......
Good job keeping after it and getting it going. Job well done.

 

[wzuber]

Maybe do a quick re-torque on the man. bolts? Just 4 chitsngiggles

 

[4Waters]

Then something likely changed. You can use carb cleaner or wd40 to spray around intake man. gasket., carb. Etc. To help find/isolate a leak. Rpm will change while spraying.
Note: always a good idea to keep a fire extinguisher handy while doing this type stuff....just in case.......
Good job keeping after it and getting it going. Job well done.

You can also use propane from a propane torch

 

[YeahYeah01]

Then something likely changed. You can use carb cleaner or wd40 to spray around intake man. gasket., carb. Etc. To help find/isolate a leak. Rpm will change while spraying.
Note: always a good idea to keep a fire extinguisher handy while doing this type stuff....just in case.......
Good job keeping after it and getting it going. Job well done.

Ya if I can get it to fire back up and idle in a safe manor ill try and check for leaks for sure. If not the carb will go the shop to make sure I didn't mess it up.

 

[YeahYeah01]

You can also use propane from a propane torch

I like that. Never done it that way.

 

[YeahYeah01]

Maybe do a quick re-torque on the man. bolts? Just 4 chitsngiggles

Not a bad idea either!.