27 foot Cat with OB or IO??

[DaveC]

What does everyone think about the pros and cons of building a NEW boat with either an I/O OR twin OB's, with current motors options? As in which motor option would you rather do and why? What do we think the trend will be going forward?

Specifically the 27 Speedster but any builder for that matter in this size range.

I can see the trend has been toward many more twin OB builds in recent years. EB has produced way more OB than I/O in the 27 Speedster.

Everyone's opinions here will be telling come re-sale time.

I am currently doing an upgrade but I am curious as to the general consensus of RDP of this issue.

There are no wrong answers here only opinions and I want to hear them all.

TYIA

 

[RiverDave]

Everyone wants the OB’s right now.. for the 27 I’d do OB. For the 28 I persobally would rather have twin I/O

 

[stoker2001]

kind of biased,but hard to beat the speed,reliability and warrantee of twin outboards..can get pricey for the higher HP models tho

 

[MrMayhem]

Before I bought my Nordic 28SS, I had a 28SS with a 700SCI. The OB has more room, is 20 MPH faster, turns and docks much easier, and has 5 year engine warranties! It was a no brainer for me.

 

[monkeyswrench]

I have no skin in this game...yet
From what I am seeing in society in general, OB.
Reasoning is, less and less of the younger people are turning their own wrenches. A lot of power, that has a warranty is a big selling point. The average guy couldn't set valve lash, or even reach their spark plugs. The interval and overall ease of maintainence scheduling is a big thing in todays world.

As a disclaimer...I have car motors

 

[RCDave]

OB's.

Efficiency, performance, ease of maintenance, easy to sell and upgrade O/B powerplants, less complicated drive, ability to jack/trim to the conditions, more interior room in the boat, etc....

 

[RodnJen]

If it’s a drivers boat, then outboards. If it is used for more socializing and you are in and out of the water a bunch, then inboards.

 

[mbrown2]

Having had both types of DCB 26's in the past...I made the switch to outboards on second one and I would do it again just based on reliability. Heck with today's outboards it seems like a game changer. Single 860 or two 450's...I would go two 450's all day long.

 

[Meaney77]

Did you ever end up selling your boat?

If you haven't sold and you are leaning towards OB is it worth talking to EB to see about re configuring your boat to accommodate two OB's?

OB's seem to be the hot ticket right now, lots of good performance and reliability. For what little I know it seems like maintenance and longevity is also a big plus. Not to mention a larger cabin area in the boat because you dont need to have a big motor compartment. Personally just like the sound of a big V8's....

 

[DaveC]

Haven't sold it. I am not going to re-tool mine. Too much work. Plus I would want that setback engine hatch on the O/B. I am better off selling mine and buying new. Money is not really the issue as I have wasted too much already I might as well double down on stupid.

I will either keep mine and repower it. Or sell it and build new twin OB. (leaning towards building new)

Its interesting now that even the car-boat motors guys are leaning OB.

Did you ever end up selling your boat?

If you haven't sold and you are leaning towards OB is it worth talking to EB to see about re configuring your boat to accommodate two OB's?

OB's seem to be the hot ticket right now, lots of good performance and reliability. For what little I know it seems like maintenance and longevity is also a big plus. Not to mention a larger cabin area in the boat because you dont need to have a big motor compartment. Personally just like the sound of a big V8's....

 

[Cole Trickle]

o/b

If you are good with 110mph go 300 if you have a good tax year go 400 if you cash in Apple Stock go 450's

I think it's a no brainer on that hull.

 

[Outdrive1]

Outboards hands down. Handling is much better. Reliability of a 100mph cat in a single vs twins is exponential also.


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[DaveC]

I wish I had Grads get me a ticket for the 49ers to win the Superbowl. Then I could go 450's all day long.

o/b

If you are good with 110mph go 300 if you have a good tax year go 400 if you cash in Apple Stock go 450's

I think it's a no brainer on that hull.

 

[CLA]

Twin 400's or 450's and have a blast.

 

[Gelcoater]

Dave, you already know what I’m going to say

 

[Tony DCB Boats]

Dave, you already know what I’m going to say

What? ..... Buy a DCB with twin 450R's and be smiling every time you hit the start buttons...

 

[El Guapo]

I love a big power Mercury Racing I/O set up. Coming from 700SCI stage 3's with #6's to the new 450's, we are very happy for now. We went with outboards on our new build for a new experience, to get out on the ocean and to cut down on maintenance costs. We can run 100 to 125 all day and not worry about the higher RPM's tearing up the valve train. We now get twice the fuel milage and I can trim them out of the salt water at night to flush with fresh water.
Great set up for our current boating plans. I think we will see more and more OB boats and OB Power increases over the next decade.

Cheers,

Bo

 

[New to boating]

What does everyone think about the pros and cons of building a NEW boat with either an I/O OR twin OB's, with current motors options? As in which motor option would you rather do and why? What do we think the trend will be going forward?

Specifically the 27 Speedster but any builder for that matter in this size range.

I can see the trend has been toward many more twin OB builds in recent years. EB has produced way more OB than I/O in the 27 Speedster.

Everyone's opinions here will be telling come re-sale time.

I am currently doing an upgrade but I am curious as to the general consensus of RDP of this issue.

There are no wrong answers here only opinions and I want to hear them all.

TYIA

Twin OB's would be the better choice I think - awful lot of weight on the back of a 27 but overall I think would be a really fun boat, and Eliminator is doing a really nice job with the 27 and 28 speedsters - very sleek looking piece and fit and finish is really nice.

 

[lake p.a.l.]

Don't buy twin outboards!! You will not have any excuses why you can't come boating. You won't have excuses why you can't see ALL of the Delta. You might even go boating in SF Bay and trips to Petaluma & Napa by boat really suck. You can always paint an aluminum trailer to look all fancy if that's a must. My opinion, buy a 27ish with 300R's & run 87 octane with HUGE warranty. It will be plenty fast & just another twin OB that flies by me.

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

I dont think outboards can be beat for sustained high rpm / high speed running. I come up against alot of boats that are faster than mine, but they eventually have to lift because they cant run 100-110 for 25 plus miles at a time. I have had many fast IO boats and while running into the 100's I would be watching the temps starting to climb and eventually I would always have to lift or things would get expensive. Even with oil coolers and everything else I did to keep them cool, the temp ultimately starts to climb.

One other thing is cost of performance upgrades, I had my ECU's re-flashed and gained 35 hp per engine for $800 and engine, cheap in the grand scheme of things for 35 additional hp.

 

[n2otoofast4u]

Don't buy twin outboards!! You will not have any excuses why you can't come boating. You won't have excuses why you can't see ALL of the Delta. You might even go boating in SF Bay and trips to Petaluma & Napa by boat really suck. You can always paint an aluminum trailer to look all fancy if that's a must. My opinion, buy a 27ish with 300R's & run 87 octane with HUGE warranty. It will be plenty fast & just another twin OB that flies by me.

Rob brings up a GREAT point on the 300R program. Everyone wants to jump right to the 400 or 450 game, but they all fail to remember the 87 octane requirements on the 300s. The fuel requirement is something to REALLY consider when selecting power. I REALLY WANT 450s on my new ride, but every time I put reality back into the equation, I end up back at the 300s because of where I boat, and the fuel that is available!

 

[DaveC]

That new 33R with 450's and that new 28R. Whats not to like?!?!! Just beautiful!!

One Day!!

What? ..... Buy a DCB with twin 450R's and be smiling every time you hit the start buttons...

 

[DaveC]

But I like to leave a trail of car-boat motor oil behind me or filling up my bilge from the breathers.

Don't buy twin outboards!! You will not have any excuses why you can't come boating. You won't have excuses why you can't see ALL of the Delta. You might even go boating in SF Bay and trips to Petaluma & Napa by boat really suck. You can always paint an aluminum trailer to look all fancy if that's a must. My opinion, buy a 27ish with 300R's & run 87 octane with HUGE warranty. It will be plenty fast & just another twin OB that flies by me.

I thought that was the plan? Chasing after you guys on the Delta.

 

[prorider]

Rob brings up a GREAT point on the 300R program. Everyone wants to jump right to the 400 or 450 game, but they all fail to remember the 87 octane requirements on the 300s. The fuel requirement is something to REALLY consider when selecting power. I REALLY WANT 450s on my new ride, but every time I put reality back into the equation, I end up back at the 300s because of where I boat, and the fuel that is available!

450r only needs 87 also

 

[DaveC]

Its almost unanimous. Most people like the OB.

I was just wondering where this market was headed as if it wasn't obvious already.

Anyone have any dissenting opinions?

 

[beaverretriever]

Twin 300s on a 27 would be bitchen. I mean twin 450s would be more bitchener, but it's all about what you want and need. I love to go fast, but my wife and I are at a point we just want to be able to do 50 to 70 safely and have a comfortable boat to hang out on.

I just looked up pricing on our Merc site and 300s are about half the price of 450s. You literally can save 50 to 60k or so depending on what you pay for them. 60k isn't a lot of money to some of the ballers on here, but that is huge to me.

 

[RCDave]

Resale on O/B's is strong too. Great for new power plants to refresh or increase power down the road.

 

[Tony DCB Boats]

450r only needs 87 also

The 450R has a three year warranty and need a minimum of 89 octane.

 

[DaveC]

I think I would only do 450's if I went to a bigger boat. Like the Eliminator 30 or DCB 33. The 450's are key on those I think. That DCB 33 with 450's from the boat show was the ticket.

For the 27 the 400's or 300's are good. EB gets 120+ MPH with the 400's. To me thats hauling ass.

 

[Lavey5150]

27 Sabre Lavey, I'm biased and it's never been done w/blenders.

 

[FreeBird236]

I think I would only do 450's if I went to a bigger boat. Like the Eliminator 30 or DCB 33. The 450's are key on those I think. That DCB 33 with 450's from the boat show was the ticket.

For the 27 the 400's or 300's are good. EB gets 120+ MPH with the 400's. To me thats hauling ass.

After reading all this, I think OB is the way to go, now you need to figure out the type of ride you want. 100", 108" or 118", and if the money difference will work for you.

 

[DaveC]

I should mention that I already have an order in with Eliminator for a new 27 Speedster with 400's. I am just waiting.

While I am waiting I was thinking about my boat and re-powering the I/O. Probably not.

I was just wondering about the resale of I/O versus OB and where the market is heading.

I can get the 30 Speedster or 33 DCB with OB's but I have no need for such a large boat. We have some other things we want to do so we don't want to drop $350k+ on a boat we only use 4 months of the year.

Months back Preston had a nice DCB M31 with 700's that he could have got me into at the right price. But thats just not for me.

 

[DaveC]

I know about the price difference of the 300/400 vs the 450. Isn't that pricing crazy?

When the rumors first starting flying about the 450 I figure there would be a 25% bump in price. Not almost double

I can't figure out how the 450 is almost double that of the 300/400. The boats I am looking at range from 27 to 28 feet and haul ass with the 400. It doesn't make much sense doubling the engine budget for a few MPH more over 120 mph for those sized boats.

Now I figure the 450 and its extra torque really helps larger and heavier boats so they make more sense in 30 foot and over.

Twin 300s on a 27 would be bitchen. I mean twin 450s would be more bitchener, but it's all about what you want and need. I love to go fast, but my wife and I are at a point we just want to be able to do 50 to 70 safely and have a comfortable boat to hang out on.

I just looked up pricing on our Merc site and 300s are about half the price of 450s. You literally can save 50 to 60k or so depending on what you pay for them. 60k isn't a lot of money to some of the ballers on here, but that is huge to me.

 

[KingofBeers]

..... on a boat we only use 4 months of the year.

Being that you are so close to the Delta this is the most troubling statement in this thread so far.

 

[monkeyswrench]

I know about the price difference of the 300/400 vs the 450. Isn't that pricing crazy?

When the rumors first starting flying about the 450 I figure there would be a 25% bump in price. Not almost double

I can't figure out how the 450 is almost double that of the 300/400. The boats I am looking at range from 27 to 28 feet and haul ass with the 400. It doesn't make much sense doubling the engine budget for a few MPH more over 120 mph for those sized boats.

Now I figure the 450 and its extra torque really helps larger and heavier boats so they make more sense in 30 foot and over.

The difference in price between 400 and 450...here's what I have heard from what few people I know that are pretty "knowledgeable", and from what I have read through hours of trying to be more versed in the clamp on things...They are saying the 450 is a new building block of sorts, and that it will be the basis for newer, more powerful setups. If so, maybe the tuning, intake tract or exhaust will be interchangeable with the current 450's? Maybe a 450 will be an upgradeable piece in the puzzle. There is some logic to the pricing, if that is the case...

I was hoping the 450 craze would flood the market with 300's...didn't happen though

 

[Shlbyntro]

Its almost unanimous. Most people like the OB.

I was just wondering where this market was headed as if it wasn't obvious already.

Anyone have any dissenting opinions?

I do. The outboards are great, dont get me wrong, and I know that they do get better mileage and they're really easy to pluck off and swap out with a new one when theres an issue.

As a mechanic though, you notice things. And what I notice is that now in the short term, the outboards are better but what about cost of ownership in the long term. Outboards are low production specialty machines. Inboards and stern drives ( the engines at least) share about 75% of their parts with trucks making them part of a larger production family which will keep parts costs 10 years down the road at a reasonable number. Repair parts for 10 year old outboards are astronomical because of those low production numbers and very few aftermarket competitors, again because of the low numbers.

Short term: sure, the outboard wins hands down
Long term: take the inboard, there may be more regular maintenance intervals but as far as life of the engine overall in the boat and overall comfort of the hp (this part is my opinion) I dont think an outboard stands up.

I have been boating my entire life since i was 5yrs old (that's 25+ years) and have professionally mechanic'd exclusively on boats since I was right out of highschool from the very get go, I didnt play with any other professions. I have never seen a properly maintained and taken care of inboard "break down all the time" like these guys are saying. 95% of the time, breakdowns are due to neglect, abuse, and lack of use. The other 5% is bad luck.

And the talk about how they can beat on their outboards wide open while the guy with the inboard has to back off.... well, I would never beat on anything I own, I care far too much about the things I work my ass off for. So though that may be true, ask yourself do you really want to beat on something like that continuously? Because I never would no matter what I was told, even if it came from the engineers mouth who designed and built the thing.

Go play with a new Volvo LS platform package, they can "stand up" to the abuse and pack a pretty damn good punch as well.








I love outboards, I love stern drives, and I love inboards. No one is greater than the other. Outboards happen to be the in thing right now, THAT IS IT. The boats I professionally work on are mostly in the 10-20 year old range, the inboard is the lowest cost of ownership, the IO is next, the outboards are long gone and the customer has dropped some serious coins to repower with a newer engine(s).
And POD drives are just fuck-you money their entire lives

 

[Riverryder]

I do. The outboards are great, dont get me wrong, and I know that they do get better mileage and they're really easy to pluck off and swap out with a new one when theres an issue.

As a mechanic though, you notice things. And what I notice is that now in the short term, the outboards are better but what about cost of ownership in the long term. Outboards are low production specialty machines. Inboards and stern drives ( the engines at least) share about 75% of their parts with trucks making them part of a larger production family which will keep parts costs 10 years down the road at a reasonable number. Repair parts for 10 year old outboards are astronomical because of those low production numbers and very few aftermarket competitors, again because of the low numbers.

Short term: sure, the outboard wins hands down
Long term: take the inboard, there may be more regular maintenance intervals but as far as life of the engine overall in the boat and overall comfort of the hp (this part is my opinion) I dont think an outboard stands up.

I have been boating my entire life since i was 5yrs old (that's 25+ years) and have professionally mechanic'd exclusively on boats since I was right out of highschool from the very get go, I didnt play with any other professions. I have never seen a properly maintained and taken care of inboard "break down all the time" like these guys are saying. 95% of the time, breakdowns are due to neglect, abuse, and lack of use. The other 5% is bad luck.

And the talk about how they can beat on their outboards wide open while the guy with the inboard has to back off.... well, I would never beat on anything I own, I care far too much about the things I work my ass off for. So though that may be true, ask yourself do you really want to beat on something like that continuously? Because I never would no matter what I was told, even if it came from the engineers mouth who designed and built the thing.

Go play with a new Volvo LS platform package, they can "stand up" to the abuse.








I love outboards, I love stern drives, and I love inboards. No one is greater than the other. Outboards happen to be the in thing right now, THAT IS IT. The boats I professionally work on are mostly in the 10-20 year old range, the inboard is the lowest cost of ownership, the IO is next, the outboards are long gone and the customer has dropped some serious coins to repower with a newer engine(s).
And POD drives are just fuck-you money their entire lives

Thank you!
The out boards are cool don’t get my wrong. But holy crap watching all the sheep fall in lines is getting old.

Like bully posted the other day. Why can’t people get out and fix there boats or use the dam things!

I see a lot of people talking about 300, 400 and 450s like they are in the know. Then post in another thread about there “shit box” that doesn’t run or needs something..

99 days boys! Get your boats ready!

Congrats to OP on the new purchase. Hope we get lucky enough to share with us the build and experience!



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[Singleton]

To be honest in the 25-27’ range, I think twin 300R’s would be the ticket.

600hp in my 26 Deck is more then enough. Don’t want more then that

 

[GRADS]

If you want to sound like two bass boats racing to a fishing hole then get OB's. If you want to attract chicks and sound like a man's boat then get a big block.

 

[DaveC]

You know what’s worse. The boat is store in Antioch on Auto Center/Fourth. Like two blocks from the launch ramp.

But it’s not my fault. I had technical problems past couple of years. I just got it fixed

plus like Rob said I need an OB to do what you guys do

Being that you are so close to the Delta this is the most troubling statement in this thread so far.

 

[lake p.a.l.]

Being that you are so close to the Delta this is the most troubling statement in this thread so far.

He MIGHT be converted soon...........

 

[lake p.a.l.]

Thank you!
The out boards are cool don’t get my wrong. But holy crap watching all the sheep fall in lines is getting old.

Like bully posted the other day. Why can’t people get out and fix there boats or use the dam things!

I see a lot of people talking about 300, 400 and 450s like they are in the know. Then post in another thread about there “shit box” that doesn’t run or needs something..

99 days boys! Get your boats ready!

Congrats to OP on the new purchase. Hope we get lucky enough to share with us the build and experience!



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We run the HELL out of our outboards in the Delta. I've had a few small setbacks & lost a powerhead last summer. They are SO easy to get back up & running & my big turd runs 100+ mph with 4 people almost every time out.

 

[lbhsbz]

You can service outboards whilst standing up.


....and we have a church

 

[DaveC]

Says the guy who drives a ghey ass Smart Car and rolls an overgrown family truckster of a boat.

At least I am still getting a cat. I may even drive it without a life vest

If you want to sound like two bass boats racing to a fishing hole then get OB's. If you want to attract chicks and sound like a man's boat then get a big block.

but I agree on the sound

 

[DaveC]

How many hours did that poor thing have on it? A million?

How do you guys stay warm running around in the winter cold in yore boat?

We run the HELL out of our outboards in the Delta. I've had a few small setbacks & lost a powerhead last summer. They are SO easy to get back up & running & my big turd runs 100+ mph with 4 people almost every time out.

 

[GRADS]

Says the guy who drives a ghey ass Smart Car and rolls an overgrown family truckster of a boat.

Hell, my Smart car sounds cooler than a bass boat. And let's face it, OB's are the smart cars of boat engines.

 

[DaveC]

Stop kidding yourself. Can you even hear it?

I drive a corvette. That fart car sounds like shit

Hell, my Smart car sounds cooler than a bass boat.

funny I asked EB about a 28 Speedster with twin 520’s

 

[lake p.a.l.]

How many hours did that poor thing have on it? A million?

How do you guys stay warm running around in the winter cold in yore boat?

It only had 400+ hours but it sat a LOT its 1st10 years of life.
We layer up on clothes, run full helmets with face shields & gloves. We ENJOY boating in all weather.

 

[DaveC]

I saw your polar bear run pictures and froze just looking at them. And I was in Tahoe

I thought someone forgot to tell Rob it’s time to go snow skiing.

It only had 400+ hours but it sat a LOT its 1st10 years of life.
We layer up on clothes, run full helmets with face shields & gloves. We ENJOY boating in all weather.

 

[Riverryder]

We run the HELL out of our outboards in the Delta. I've had a few small setbacks & lost a powerhead last summer. They are SO easy to get back up & running & my big turd runs 100+ mph with 4 people almost every time out.

I’m not saying they aren’t cool. I like boats. Any boat! Bayliners, bass boats, poontoons! Just seems like there is so many people just falling in line with the crazy. I see so many people giving their opinion about the 300s,400s and 450s. And have yet to even see a picture of them using their boat!


I see the post! You running that thing all the time! Hats off to you! I don’t think I have ever seen a bad post come from you. Always positive! Hats off to you my man! You seem like a kickass person to be around!

You towing the big turd( your words not mine) in 99 days?



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