27 foot Cat with OB or IO??

[n2otoofast4u]

Dave if you’re interested in IO, and want a deal, the silver/blue 28 at Horizon is BAD BITCH, and it’s priced right for a 150mph ride! I nearly pulled the trigger, but I cannot afford the insurance. I’m going to have to stick with the slow whacker boats, and I’m ok with that.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

I find this subject interesting. I don’t see the whole I/O “community” having I/O clubs or meetings, at the exclusion of O/B’s?

use to be we all just sorta boated together, regardless of what our whip was.

just find it interesting as I have no particular dog in this fight.

but why draw lines through the community for no apparent reason, other that what’s hangin off the back of your boat?

 

[ToMorrow44]

Its almost unanimous. Most people like the OB.

I was just wondering where this market was headed as if it wasn't obvious already.

Anyone have any dissenting opinions?

I’ll dissent too. I 100% see why everyone likes outboards, fuel efficiency, reliability, etc. my personal opinion though is that they are a fad. And fads die away eventually, not sure about this one, may be a while.

Nobody turns their heads when you fire up a pair of outboards at the marina and no one even bats an eye when you do a flyby of the sandbar. Little kids don’t do a double take of your outboards when they walk by on the dock. Now if you have a blown big block...

I will say that the inboard motors have a lot of room for improvement to make them a little more “idiot proof” like the outboards.

 

[Riverryder]

I find this subject interesting. I don’t see the whole I/O “community” having I/O clubs or meetings, at the exclusion of O/B’s?

use to be we all just sorta boated together, regardless of what our whip was.

just find it interesting as I have no particular dog in this fight.

but why draw lines through the community for no apparent reason, other that what’s hangin off the back of your boat?

I was waiting to see if you would chime in!

New boat with i/o motors!

Don’t think the op was trying to draw a line. Most the keyboard boaters are tho. Get out on the lake with your “chick”(king of hammers thread..) or wife and kids or family and make memories!


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[Skinny Tire AH]

I was waiting to see if you would chime in!

New boat with i/o motors!

Don’t the the op was trying to draw a line. Most the keyboard boaters are tho. Get out on the lake with your “chick”(king of hammers thread..) or wife and kids or family and make memories!


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Davec is a solid guy, no doubt.

However you cannot deny that there is an absolute division of “styles” at the very least.

with that, I’ll slide back to watching.

 

[DaveC]

I lost two summers because of my last fiasco. So reliability is high on my list this time.

Or at least repair-ability. Lol.

One of the two. I don’t care which I just want it to work this time.

now I know from experience stock inboards can be very reliable also. I had one for years and never a problem.

 

[RCDave]

Not all boats are the same. A little apples and oranges comparison but it would take a very stout engine in an I/O configuration to make my 22 cougar MTR run as fast as the existing 300xs. Low to mid 90's and great mpg at cruise (5-7 mph) is hard for a car engine I/O o match. Plus being able to RIP 5000-6000 cruising 70-80 for long periods. Fad, I think not....

 

[Riverryder]

Davec is a solid guy, no doubt.

However you cannot deny that there is an absolute division of “styles” at the very least.

with that, I’ll slide back to watching.

I agree they are trying to make a division. But I think it has to do with the fact that they are still trying to convince themselves that they made a good decision with opting to go OB instead of a big v8.

Case in point people Tesla’s have option for engine noise...

The division and these thread are the OB owners “engine noise”

Just like when someone copy’s another person and try’s to say they were the first one to doit...

Or the little yappers that bark all day but when someone gets close they stop..


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[Riverryder]

Not all boats are the same. A little apples and oranges comparison but it would take a very stout engine in an I/O configuration to make my 22 cougar MTR run as fast as the existing 300xs. Low to mid 90's and great mpg at cruise (5-7 mph) is hard for a car engine I/O o match. Plus being able to RIP 5000-6000 cruising 70-80 for long periods. Fad, I think not....

Proof? Or these internet claims?
(No disrespect)



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[DaveC]

I used to enjoy the old days where everyone would make fun of each other, then we would laugh and go boating and drinking together.

Remember those days? I do. good times.

I like to think we still do that.

Davec is a solid guy, no doubt.

However you cannot deny that there is an absolute division of “styles” at the very least.

with that, I’ll slide back to watching.

 

[RCDave]

Proof? Or these internet claims?
(No disrespect)



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Best I've seen is 94mph. Box stock merc 26xs prop, so there is more there.....

 

[Riverryder]

I used to enjoy the old days where everyone would make fun of each other, then we would laugh and go boating and drinking together.

Remember those days? I do. good times.

I like to think we still do that.

I always have a color full of boat sodas! And will share and talk boats with any and every one!

Not to long ago I saw someone roasting a family with a little boat(mexicans), with a bunch of coolers at the marina. Me being Mexican it pissed me off! I called everyone out saying instead of laughin at them how about help them trek there family in? Instead of maken fun of someone trying to make memories with family and friends?

My boat seats 10 adults and it’s usually me and my 2 kids and a friend or 2. If I ever see anyone less fortunate then me I’ll help them make there day on the lake easier!




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[Skinny Tire AH]

I used to enjoy the old days where everyone would make fun of each other, then we would laugh and go boating and drinking together.

Remember those days? I do. good times.

I like to think we still do that.

We do in fact. Can you in all honesty say there isn’t a “cliquish” or “hey I’m a convert” mentality to some extent.

oh, can you point me to the I/O church please?

 

[Riverryder]

Best I've seen is 94mph. Box stock merc 26xs prop, so there is more there.....



View attachment 834454

Nice! Internet [emoji112]


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[DaveC]

Lol

I used to be a card carrying member of the car-boat motor club

I think it all evolved from the bench racing days on hot boat. That was some funny shit. Lots of trash talking going on then. All in good fun

We do in fact. Can you in all honesty say there isn’t a “cliquish” or “hey I’m a convert” mentality to some extent.

oh, can you point me to the I/O church please?

 

[HighVoltage329]

Don't make more of the outboard club than it is. There's no excluding any type of boat or motor in the group we boat with (DLB).
I do find the discussion and decisions being made for power interesting.

 

[GRADS]

RDP's twin Outboard Crew. Just sayin'.....

 

[Riverryder]

RDP's twin Outboard Crew. Just sayin'.....

View attachment 834470

That the new 500? Hahah you need 2 tho!!


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[Flying_Lavey]

I do. The outboards are great, dont get me wrong, and I know that they do get better mileage and they're really easy to pluck off and swap out with a new one when theres an issue.

As a mechanic though, you notice things. And what I notice is that now in the short term, the outboards are better but what about cost of ownership in the long term. Outboards are low production specialty machines. Inboards and stern drives ( the engines at least) share about 75% of their parts with trucks making them part of a larger production family which will keep parts costs 10 years down the road at a reasonable number. Repair parts for 10 year old outboards are astronomical because of those low production numbers and very few aftermarket competitors, again because of the low numbers.

Short term: sure, the outboard wins hands down
Long term: take the inboard, there may be more regular maintenance intervals but as far as life of the engine overall in the boat and overall comfort of the hp (this part is my opinion) I dont think an outboard stands up.

I have been boating my entire life since i was 5yrs old (that's 25+ years) and have professionally mechanic'd exclusively on boats since I was right out of highschool from the very get go, I didnt play with any other professions. I have never seen a properly maintained and taken care of inboard "break down all the time" like these guys are saying. 95% of the time, breakdowns are due to neglect, abuse, and lack of use. The other 5% is bad luck.

And the talk about how they can beat on their outboards wide open while the guy with the inboard has to back off.... well, I would never beat on anything I own, I care far too much about the things I work my ass off for. So though that may be true, ask yourself do you really want to beat on something like that continuously? Because I never would no matter what I was told, even if it came from the engineers mouth who designed and built the thing.

Go play with a new Volvo LS platform package, they can "stand up" to the abuse and pack a pretty damn good punch as well.








I love outboards, I love stern drives, and I love inboards. No one is greater than the other. Outboards happen to be the in thing right now, THAT IS IT. The boats I professionally work on are mostly in the 10-20 year old range, the inboard is the lowest cost of ownership, the IO is next, the outboards are long gone and the customer has dropped some serious coins to repower with a newer engine(s).
And POD drives are just fuck-you money their entire lives

Huh....... Damn. I guess my 36 year old outboard didn't get the memo about being expensive. Never has had an internal component replaced. Just lower unit issues (my fault too). Battery dies, I just pull start the sumbitch. Trim pump motor dies..... Use the bypass valve. Pre-mix the ol' girl to 45:1 and she's happy as hell to spin up to 6700. And personally, a 2 stroke signing that high rpm song is as nice to my ears as a blown big block.

And btw, the new 300 and 450's have a killer V8 exhaust note as well.

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[Riverryder]

Huh....... Damn. I guess my 36 year old outboard didn't get the memo about being expensive. Never has had an internal component replaced. Just lower unit issues (my fault too). Battery dies, I just pull start the sumbitch. Trim pump motor dies..... Use the bypass valve. Pre-mix the ol' girl to 45:1 and she's happy as hell to spin up to 6700. And personally, a 2 stroke signing that high rpm song is as nice to my ears as a blown big block.

And btw, the new 300 and 450's have a killer V8 exhaust note as well.

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Pics of said boat? You post a lot but never see a picture of you running the boat?
I know I read you recently moved but where are the pics of being in the water?


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[Flying_Lavey]

Pics of said boat? You post a lot but never see a picture of you running the boat?
I know I read you recently moved but where are the pics of being in the water?


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I'm usually driving and enjoying what I'm doing so I don't take many pictures at all. I didn't get to use it this year as it just wasn't in the financial cards but hoping that'll be much different this coming year. These are about the only pictures I have of boating on my phone. They were taken about summer of '17 on Nacimiento. There were many days after those as well. I just don't take pictures of them.

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[G. Faulk]

It pains me to say this but OB's all the way. Cats 34 and under OB's, 35 and over inboards. Not knocking Eliminator at all love there boats, but if your thinking on the large side power single inboard I'd look at the Redline-Lavey before you drop the $ hammer.

 

[Riverryder]

I'm usually driving and enjoying what I'm doing so I don't take many pictures at all. I didn't get to use it this year as it just wasn't in the financial cards but hoping that'll be much different this coming year. These are about the only pictures I have of boating on my phone. They were taken about summer of '17 on Nacimiento. There were many days after those as well. I just don't take pictures of them. View attachment 834483 View attachment 834484

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Fuck yes! This is boating!! Glad to see your kid enjoying boating! My son at the controls and barking orders to his sister!!

Hope you and your family get a lot of use out of your boat this season!!


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[lake p.a.l.]

Proof? Or these internet claims?
(No disrespect)



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I'd be more than happy to take you out on my 30'8" 5000lb turd and prove how efficient the outboards are.
Truth be told, I would absofrickunlutely LOVE to own a twin blown big block but I can't afford it. We boat a LOT because we LOVE boating. No chance I could afford the fuel, maintenance, & time to clean after a day in the salt.

 

[mesquito_creek]

Huh....... Damn. I guess my 36 year old outboard didn't get the memo about being expensive. Never has had an internal component replaced. Just lower unit issues (my fault too). Battery dies, I just pull start the sumbitch. Trim pump motor dies..... Use the bypass valve. Pre-mix the ol' girl to 45:1 and she's happy as hell to spin up to 6700. And personally, a 2 stroke signing that high rpm song is as nice to my ears as a blown big block.

And btw, the new 300 and 450's have a killer V8 exhaust note as well.

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I have a 25 year old Mercury 200 EFI outboard on my Malibu barefooter with 1400 hours of pure abuse. Pulling 200+ lbs fat old barefooters with 2 or 3 passenger and a full cooler of beer. Its run its whole life on 87 octane pemex... Nothing but impellers and spark plugs it entire life. Boat will pull a footer 50+mph full of people and gas. Still runs great.

I have my eliminator Whaler getting the GM 350 pulled out for a full rebuild at the 1200 hour mark...

I love them both but the OB has killed all my other boats in terms of cost to operate.

Any real boater aspires to has one of everything, this is America... we don't have to limit our choices to just one.

 

[McKay]

I’ll dissent too. I 100% see why everyone likes outboards, fuel efficiency, reliability, etc. my personal opinion though is that they are a fad. And fads die away eventually, not sure about this one, may be a while.

Nobody turns their heads when you fire up a pair of outboards at the marina and no one even bats an eye when you do a flyby of the sandbar. Little kids don’t do a double take of your outboards when they walk by on the dock. Now if you have a blown big block...

I will say that the inboard motors have a lot of room for improvement to make them a little more “idiot proof” like the outboards.

A lot of us like to boat and not be seen. I try and boat when I think the lake is empty. For me personally boating 250-300 miles a day is not out of the norm. Doing that with whippled 700 SCI's is tough as you really need to plan your fuel stops. OB's are in my future as I can do that without the need to find fuel for the whole day.

 

[lake p.a.l.]

A lot of us like to boat and not be seen. I try and boat when I think the lake is empty. For me personally boating 250-300 miles a day is not out of the norm. Doing that with whippled 700 SCI's is tough as you really need to plan your fuel stops. OB's are in my future as I can do that without the need to find fuel for the whole day.

I couldn't agree more. I appreciate not being seen or heard.

 

[DaveC]

Thanks for all the takes everyone. It seems the vote is leaning towards OB but there is still a few IO diehards out there. That is what I figured but wanted to hear it from RDP

We can certainly keep bench racing if necessary

Our plan was to sell my IO instead of upgrading the engine to S/C and get a new 27 Speedster with OB. I think we will stick to that plan.

In talking about twins I thought about a slightly larger boat but would probably still do OB. Further in talking to friends we want to do either the 27 or skip right to 33. So we would skip over 28-31. My good buddy on the Delta has owned every size boat and advocates for the skip so he speaks from experience. We live near the Delta so it would be nice to have the OB boat to turn some miles because presently I cannot keep up with them. Gas is plentiful there so that’s not the problem. I have found from experience that the 27 can handle the Delta even on a rough day so I am good there. I would only go bigger if we wanted to add the bay to our runs. I don’t want a bigger boat because that would make it difficult to get into the lakes we frequent as the roads are small.

So 27 it’s is

 

[Dkahnjob]

I do. The outboards are great, dont get me wrong, and I know that they do get better mileage and they're really easy to pluck off and swap out with a new one when theres an issue.

As a mechanic though, you notice things. And what I notice is that now in the short term, the outboards are better but what about cost of ownership in the long term. Outboards are low production specialty machines. Inboards and stern drives ( the engines at least) share about 75% of their parts with trucks making them part of a larger production family which will keep parts costs 10 years down the road at a reasonable number. Repair parts for 10 year old outboards are astronomical because of those low production numbers and very few aftermarket competitors, again because of the low numbers.

Short term: sure, the outboard wins hands down
Long term: take the inboard, there may be more regular maintenance intervals but as far as life of the engine overall in the boat and overall comfort of the hp (this part is my opinion) I dont think an outboard stands up.

I have been boating my entire life since i was 5yrs old (that's 25+ years) and have professionally mechanic'd exclusively on boats since I was right out of highschool from the very get go, I didnt play with any other professions. I have never seen a properly maintained and taken care of inboard "break down all the time" like these guys are saying. 95% of the time, breakdowns are due to neglect, abuse, and lack of use. The other 5% is bad luck.

And the talk about how they can beat on their outboards wide open while the guy with the inboard has to back off.... well, I would never beat on anything I own, I care far too much about the things I work my ass off for. So though that may be true, ask yourself do you really want to beat on something like that continuously? Because I never would no matter what I was told, even if it came from the engineers mouth who designed and built the thing.

Go play with a new Volvo LS platform package, they can "stand up" to the abuse and pack a pretty damn good punch as well.








I love outboards, I love stern drives, and I love inboards. No one is greater than the other. Outboards happen to be the in thing right now, THAT IS IT. The boats I professionally work on are mostly in the 10-20 year old range, the inboard is the lowest cost of ownership, the IO is next, the outboards are long gone and the customer has dropped some serious coins to repower with a newer engine(s).
And POD drives are just fuck-you money their entire lives

I am probably biased because of what I own, but I prefer twin IO's. My 26' Eliminator has twin 6.2 Mercruisers (377 cubic inch small block chevys). They are a really great package.
The boat goes 80 mph (not super fast, but fast enough), and typically burns 8-10 GPH total for both engines.

 

[Riverryder]

What do you have currently?


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[DaveC]

This! It has a single inboard.

It is for sale presently.

What do you have currently?


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[Riverryder]

Oh my!!
Why buy a new one? That thing looks amazing!


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[PlanB]

Had a DCB with twin 2.5’s and one with a blown I/O. Also a 28 Skater with 300’s.

We are most likely going to build another boat in the next couple of years, and it will be an O/B boat.

We have even considered a new deck with twin O/B’s.

 

[HST4ME]

 

[bocco]

Oh my!!
Why buy a new one? That thing looks amazing!


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This ^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[beaverretriever]

Nothing sounds like a big block (or small block) with bitchen thru-hull exhaust but whackers are awesome too. I never forget the first time I went over a 100mph in Kilrtoy's DCB. Having those 300s scream behind your head sold me. I ordered up a new cat with Merc OB power not even a year later.

I think if you are buying a five to 20 year old pre-owned cat I don't think it matters, but if I were to buy something new cat wise it would have new whacker/whackers for sure. I actually love the way they look on a cat.

Kilrtoy's. Loved this old boat.

 

[PlanB]

^^^ Wait till you hear twin 450’s. They sound pretty good at speed.

 

[beaverretriever]

Hey, I don't side with either OBs or I/Os. I will take rides from anyone who offers. Shit, I have ridden in a Kachina for crying out loud.

Until we get (might not ever happen) a new boat, my wife and I are gonna bum rides. Well she will bum the ride and I will show up too

 

[Riverryder]

Hey, I don't side with either OBs or I/Os. I will take rides from anyone who offers. Shit, I have ridden in a Kachina for crying out loud.

Until we get (might not ever happen) a new boat, my wife and I are gonna bum rides. Well she will bum the ride and I will show up too

guess you missed the king of hammers thread...

Does your wife do any tricks?? Lol



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[DaveC]

Good plan. If yore wife showed up, with you, we would make sure you both had a ride.

Hey, I don't side with either OBs or I/Os. I will take rides from anyone who offers. Shit, I have ridden in a Kachina for crying out loud.

Until we get (might not ever happen) a new boat, my wife and I are gonna bum rides. Well she will bum the ride and I will show up too

 

[DaveC]

Say what?!!? Because we all hate our money and like to waste it.

Oh my!!
Why buy a new one? That thing looks amazing!


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J/K. More speed of course.

 

[Riverryder]

Say what?!!? Because we all hate our money and like to waste it.



J/K. More speed of course.

Haha figures! It sure is nice to sit back and watch other people spend money I wish I could spend haha.
How fast is the current beauty?


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[DaveC]

Max I have seen was 89.

Haha figures! It sure is nice to sit back and watch other people spend money I wish I could spend haha.
How fast is the current beauty?


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[beaverretriever]

@DaveC I had no idea the 27 Speedster you are possibly purchasing were running 200k to 300k! Can't wait to see it when it's done.

 

[H2O]

Kilrtoy's. Loved this old boat.

Did you ever spin out in the Reeds?

 

[DaveC]

SSSSHHHH. Don't tell my wife!!!

She thinks its $80K.

@DaveC I had no idea the 27 Speedster you are possibly purchasing were running 200k to 300k! Can't wait to see it when it's done.

Thats how much the last one cost too. Buy two stooopid.

 

[Boatmaster]

Do I really need to give you my opinion Dave!!!! Come on, there is really only one choice.

 

[SJP]

I have owned a few IO boats and a bunch of wacker boats over the years. I like them all, but the new technology of the 400 and now 450 is just unreal on the OB platform. The duty cycle and warranty that in itself closes it for me. I boat with a lot of people, different types of boats, and a lot of times just launch or go out by myself.

My DW32 has been nothing short of an unreal performance boat. Cost per hour / super low with warranty cards thru 2021. Speed into the 120s easy and no stress. Do I miss going 140+ and would I like to go faster? Maybe a little bit but not as much as I thought I would have. Missions and priorities change I guess with us all.

To the OP on an ELIM I would go with twin OB. Price and warranty still points to the 400s. I am stoked on nganga's build - what an awesome project! I have owned a 2 X 700 merc boat and they are really cool and was a great time. I think it is great for anyone that is able to make it out on the water with friends and family at any capacity. I have a feeling the waterways are going to be even more crowded this summer.

 

[DaveC]

Lol

Well actually there are a few choices. 300, 400, 450.

Do I really need to give you my opinion Dave!!!! Come on, there is really only one choice.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

Hey, I don't side with either OBs or I/Os. I will take rides from anyone who offers. Shit, I have ridden in a Kachina for crying out loud.

Until we get (might not ever happen) a new boat, my wife and I are gonna bum rides. Well she will bum the ride and I will show up too

You'd just be the creepy husband that shows up just in time to spoil the guys ambitions after seeing your wife. Lol!

guess you missed the king of hammers thread...

Does your wife do any tricks?? Lol



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He's posted many of pictures of her over the years. She doesn't need to do any "tricks". Lol!

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