19' Schiada V-Drive V-Hull Project

[jayteetrotter]

Got the new trailer under the boat. Tows like a dream...

 

[rivergames]

Looks fuckin rad man

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

 

[steveo143]

What have you done in the prop area since we tried the ones I had?

 

[CampbellCarl]

Where'd the gay-assed air scoop come from?..............................

 

[jayteetrotter]

What have you done in the prop area since we tried the ones I had?

not much. tried the 11 1/4 x 16 from ron hill last weekend. I had the old prop cleaned up a bit but aside from that still trying to find the right prop.

 

[jayteetrotter]

Where'd the gay-assed air scoop come from?..............................

Carl, from your closet of course... :rolleyes

I am looking to put a dooley scoop or just an air filter set up like I had on it before the restore in the picture below, I just need someone to rework or make a new tray to fit the carbs of this new motor.

 

[jayteetrotter]

This might actually turn into a 100 mph boat after all. There is a real nice Blown BBC for sale with 0 hours built by Obnoxious001 and started by my boy JSTNOC that should do the trick. Too many projects and not enough time.

Finishing up the 1973 Chevy tow rig project and going blown is a tall order for sure... http://www.performanceboats.com/pb-open-water/165233-sick-73-crew-new-project.html

We will see by needles February. Blown would be good though.

 

[jayteetrotter]

Here is the era specific truck and boat rig... 1973 Chevy Crew Cab bagged all the way around and the 1974 Schiada V-Hull...

 

[Froggystyle]

This might actually turn into a 100 mph boat after all. There is a real nice Blown BBC for sale with 0 hours built by Obnoxious001 and started by my boy JSTNOC that should do the trick. Too many projects and not enough time.

Finishing up the 1973 Chevy tow rig project and going blown is a tall order for sure... http://www.performanceboats.com/pb-open-water/165233-sick-73-crew-new-project.html

We will see by needles February. Blown would be good though.

If that hull is anything like mine... Power ain't gonna be the thing that keeps it from going fast.

 

[jayteetrotter]

If that hull is anything like mine... Power ain't gonna be the thing that keeps it from going fast.

I am not following. what hull do you have? what power are you running?

I have 469 c.i. now with 10.5/1 compression with a pretty tall cam and getting about 85 mph all day long. With my heavy foot and that kind of power it should be a pretty good combo for 100 mph.

 

[LV R SCHIADA'S]

:thumbup:11 1/4 x 15 SS 2 Blade from Bergeron......:thumbup::thumbup:

 

[Froggystyle]

I am not following. what hull do you have? what power are you running?

I have 469 c.i. now with 10.5/1 compression with a pretty tall cam and getting about 85 mph all day long. With my heavy foot and that kind of power it should be a pretty good combo for 100 mph.

My boat is a 19' Spectra, which I believe is more similar than different to the Schiada. I have an 1100+hp twin turbo in it, and power ain't the problem.

The hull gets real ornery around 100, with 106 being essentially terrifying. Worse is pedaling it... Which causes it to freak out in a left turn/chine walk 1-2 combo. I'm not even in boost yet before the boat gets wooly.

I figure I have about 300 hp too much.

I'm gonna put some through hull exhaust, take a ton of advance out and try to lose a bunch of power before next season. It comes on so hard that it is just untenable.

 

[CampbellCarl]

I am not following. what hull do you have? what power are you running?

I have 469 c.i. now with 10.5/1 compression with a pretty tall cam and getting about 85 mph all day long. With my heavy foot and that kind of power it should be a pretty good combo for 100 mph.

My boat is a 19' Spectra, which I believe is more similar than different to the Schiada. I have an 1100+hp twin turbo in it, and power ain't the problem.

The hull gets real ornery around 100, with 106 being essentially terrifying. Worse is pedaling it... Which causes it to freak out in a left turn/chine walk 1-2 combo. I'm not even in boost yet before the boat gets wooly.

I figure I have about 300 hp too much.

I'm gonna put some through hull exhaust, take a ton of advance out and try to lose a bunch of power before next season. It comes on so hard that it is just untenable.

Next February Needles Boat Show, park them side by side, let me put blind folds on both of you, spin you in a circle and then by touch, each of you pick 'YOUR' boat from the other.........(exclude the motors/trailers etc).............

 

[HighVoltage329]

My boat is a 19' Spectra, which I believe is more similar than different to the Schiada. I have an 1100+hp twin turbo in it, and power ain't the problem.

The hull gets real ornery around 100, with 106 being essentially terrifying. Worse is pedaling it... Which causes it to freak out in a left turn/chine walk 1-2 combo. I'm not even in boost yet before the boat gets wooly.

I figure I have about 300 hp too much.

I'm gonna put some through hull exhaust, take a ton of advance out and try to lose a bunch of power before next season. It comes on so hard that it is just untenable.

Are you having to put a lot of wheel in it to go straight under power?

 

[Froggystyle]

Are you having to put a lot of wheel in it to go straight under power?

Like you read about. Probably 45-60 degrees or so. And if you back out of it without unwinding, it wants to flip the boat.

I've only had the stones to stay in it to 106 on the GPS up river, and I wasn't even in boost. Boat is spooky fast.

 

[AzGeo]

"Don't ever put too much power in a V-drive boat".

 

[Froggystyle]

"Don't ever put too much power in a V-drive boat".

I didn't know that was a thing. You can put all the power you want to into a jet.

 

[AzGeo]

"I figure I have about 300hp too much"

 

[Froggystyle]

"I figure I have about 300hp too much"

I get that I have done it... I think that's clear. I just didn't know you could do it.

 

[hallett21]

.

 

[jayteetrotter]

Steveo143 has the identical hull to mine and claims to have a twin turbo motor that puts out 1100 HP and takes his boat about 110-111 mph. I know the schiada is perfectly capable of handling the power for sure. My boat, in its past life had a blown alky motor setup in it. Not sure the top speed, but I am sure it was exciting.

While I know my current motor does not put out nearly as much HP as some, I just wonder if feeling the boat flex in certain conditions is normal. There have been a few times when I have been in the throttle that I thought I have felt the boat almost twist and flex.

 

[Froggystyle]

Steveo143 has the identical hull to mine and claims to have a twin turbo motor that puts out 1100 HP and takes his boat about 110-111 mph. I know the schiada is perfectly capable of handling the power for sure. My boat, in its past life had a blown alky motor setup in it. Not sure the top speed, but I am sure it was exciting.

While I know my current motor does not put out nearly as much HP as some, I just wonder if feeling the boat flex in certain conditions is normal. There have been a few times when I have been in the throttle that I thought I have felt the boat almost twist and flex.

I don't feel any flex at all... All of my senses are number by terror though.

 

[AzGeo]

I get that I have done it... I think that's clear. I just didn't know you could do it.

but I do understand why you are having the control problems with your boat. You are at the point where the 'thrust of the shaft angle and balance of the mass', have the entire weight of your boat riding on the 'rounded keel' V-section behind the center strakes. With 'no strakes or pad' to ride on, the angled (rounded) bottom has the control properties of a 'snow bowl'. Back when your boat was built it was on the leading edge of everything that was available, in an era of very few REAL 1000 HP engines and even fewer props good enough to harness that kind of power. There is a member here who has a Howard on the east coast, he has lowered his shaft angle and rebalanced the boat mass in an effort that gained him about 10% more controllable top end. Steveo's new DiMarco will have a redesigned bottom, because he already knows what to expect if he does not control the lift and drag on the rear half of the keel line. Often small gains can be made by 'fine tuning' a true wedge rudder, by equalizing the drag of each side. Some times a deeper rudder (longer blade 14"-16") will change/lower the 'polar moment of drag' and actually let the boat go faster (with control) by adding more drag in the correct spot. I suggest that anything that: 'lifts the tail/lowers the attack angle, reduces uncontrollable (round bottom) v-section drag', will help you improve your top speed control issues.

 

[Froggystyle]

but I do understand why you are having the control problems with your boat. You are at the point where the 'thrust of the shaft angle and balance of the mass', have the entire weight of your boat riding on the 'rounded keel' V-section behind the center strakes. With 'no strakes or pad' to ride on, the angled (rounded) bottom has the control properties of a 'snow bowl'. Back when your boat was built it was on the leading edge of everything that was available, in an era of very few REAL 1000 HP engines and even fewer props good enough to harness that kind of power. There is a member here who has a Howard on the east coast, he has lowered his shaft angle and rebalanced the boat mass in an effort that gained him about 10% more controllable top end. Steveo's new DiMarco will have a redesigned bottom, because he already knows what to expect if he does not control the lift and drag on the rear half of the keel line. Often small gains can be made by 'fine tuning' a true wedge rudder, by equalizing the drag of each side. Some times a deeper rudder (longer blade 14"-16") will change/lower the 'polar moment of drag' and actually let the boat go faster (with control) by adding more drag in the correct spot. I suggest that anything that: 'lifts the tail/lowers the attack angle, reduces uncontrollable (round bottom) v-section drag', will help you improve your top speed control issues.

That's all awesome advice. I'm not gonna do any of it though.

I'm gonna reduce the power to try to make it a bit less of an on/off switch, call 106 good and just hope that nobody clears my speedo to be a dick.

When I want to go fast, I'll build another Trident. 107 with a fraction of the horsepower I have now, and brainless handling. It was exciting, but absolutely calm and consistent... Rock solid.

 

[AzGeo]

extra power, is always the motto of the V-drive owner. So it seems as though you just wasted time and money working on the old style Spectra, when you should have built one of your Tridents in the first place. (since you knew they were faster) Continuing to 'demo' your own personal 107 MPH Trident seems like the best place to be VS rebuilding an old V-drive and hanging around with the V-drive crowd. Just speaking as a business minded position, your dalliance into old V-drives seems to be doing nothing to advance the Trident Brand name nor it's image to the boating public. Are you considering a 'V-drive Trident' ? Otherwise this Spectra project is just another excuse to not have your own Trident for a family boat as well as a demo boat. If you are financially able, you should have a number of new models cruising the channel each a different price level than the other.

 

[Froggystyle]

extra power, is always the motto of the V-drive owner. So it seems as though you just wasted time and money working on the old style Spectra, when you should have built one of your Tridents in the first place. (since you knew they were faster) Continuing to 'demo' your own personal 107 MPH Trident seems like the best place to be VS rebuilding an old V-drive and hanging around with the V-drive crowd. Just speaking as a business minded position, your dalliance into old V-drives seems to be doing nothing to advance the Trident Brand name nor it's image to the boating public. Are you considering a 'V-drive Trident' ? Otherwise this Spectra project is just another excuse to not have your own Trident for a family boat as well as a demo boat. If you are financially able, you should have a number of new models cruising the channel each a different price level than the other.

I can't afford a Trident. Never owned one myself. I worked for free for almost seven years building them.

If I had taken every dollar I spent on this project, I couldn't have bought a drive and steering for a Trident. I couldn't have paid half of what the motor cost.

I could have bought an interior though...

I built this because I am on a budget and had the pieces... Plus a strong yen to see what the whole V-drive thing is all about.

I figured it out. If you want a noisy, vibration riddled, expensive tuning nightmare, with unsafe handling and impossible to safely drive in low water conditions... A very high powered V-drive is the clear choice.

I'll be trying to sell it when the season comes to try to get something that isn't trying to kill me every time I romp on it. Would trade it for a late model tournament ski boat, or my old Ultra closed bow in a heartbeat. Turns out I prefer boating to making sure my will is in order.

The boat is clown-shoes... And in all honesty is happiest on a trailer being checked out by dudes. It's like a man-magnet.

When I am financially able... I will be building myself a Trident. It is superior in literally every possible metric.

Except attracting motorheads. This has the Revolution covered up.

This boat is exactly like a hard tail chopper. Loud, beautiful, expensive, hard to drive fast, dangerous, bottoms out on anything... And absolutely the perfect cure for a mid-life crisis.

 

[AzGeo]

I am sorry that you could not afford the product you produced (for a limited time) and you are now struggling to find a 'spot' for your interests in power boating today. I would still suggest that the 19' Spectra could be improved on, and in a very safe manner. (without backing it down) I just don't understand why you went through all the efforts to bring the TRIDENT to market, and then let it fade away so quickly. If it performed so well 'as you stated', then I (as the only controlling party) would not have ever spent another cent on anything else but that boat design. To me 'business trumps party' and 'TRIDENT' should have been the only business for you ? After all the politics of this post settles down, let me also add these thoughts. "Some like to travel 500 MPH in a personally modified P-51 Mustang, others opt for the 500 MPH ride in a stock Lear Jet". Many people own V-drives, some actually understand what they are all about. I personally know many here who will never allow the shortcomings of an old V-drive boat, to limit their goals. I feel that choosing your own personal level of 'limited' participation does not allow you to make qualified blanket negative statements about the breed. I wish you success with your Trident, but please don't disrespect V-drives when you have only a couple of years working with them. PS; with no disrespect, you did not figure out anything, (on V-drives) you need to actually build (not rebuild running boats) 100 different boats and spend another 40 years of testing on them, before you even get a clue as to what they are all about. When I read in another thread that you were 'financially upside down' in your boat business, I was sad. But when you come over here and ask V-drive performance questions, then throw BS Trident performance numbers at us, I must call BS. You are a smart guy and if your boat was so GD good, why don't you have one for a demo ?

 

[Froggystyle]

PS; with no disrespect, you did not figure out anything, (on V-drives) you need to actually build (not rebuild running boats) 100 different boats and spend another 40 years of testing on them, before you even get a clue as to what they are all about.

If it takes 100 boats and 40 years to amass enough knowledge to make them safe handling... It's a poor inherent design. My more than basic understanding of marine propulsion should allow me to dial it in with ease. Which is likely why they have been moved away from as a drive choice almost completely.

Bob Teague, who I would wager has rigged a V-drive or two, and who rigged my V-Drive, told me that the boat would not go faster than 100 safely. Dave Sammons, who I think the world of had a similar sentiment. He has been all over this boat with a tape measure and determined that he "wouldn't move anything 1/16"... It's set up perfectly".

The boat with that drive isn't up to it. Too many dynamics coming into play too quickly, and the time I could spend testing and evaluating what I have determined is an unsafe combination could be spent boating... Which I plan on doing.

...But when you come over here and ask V-drive performance questions, then throw BS Trident performance numbers at us, I must call BS. You are a smart guy and if your boat was so GD good, why don't you have one for a demo ?

Not sure what you mean by BS numbers there bubba. The Trident was the fastest boat at the time, regardless of hull size, to ever rig a 550 Ilmor (93 mph) a 625 Ilmor (100 mph) or a 710 Ilmor (107 mph). That may have changed, but with a Bravo drive, we had a 7% slip at over 90 mph, which speaks volumes with regard to the efficiency of the hull form, to speak nothing of the weight advantage.

I didn't ask a question... I made a statement. I mentioned specifically that if he has more than adequate power, that won't be the limiting factor, the hull will be. My point was specifically that don't bother putting over 1000 horsepower to it... It's been my experience that the hull can't take it.

I didn't own a demo because I couldn't afford one. I don't own a Trident now because I can't afford one. If I could, I assure you it would be in my stable.

And I have two Tridents in the yard BTW. And if I sold this Spectra for $75k I could buy an engine and drive for one, but nothing else. But, I won't get $30k for it, because the boat is a novelty, that requires someone that has rigged 100 boats and has 40 years in the business to square away, a feat that some good, knowledgable friends of mine have determined is an unlikely eventuality.

 

[jayteetrotter]

:fsakes take it to PM's.
I think the reality is there are few under 20' v hull boats that can go much faster than 100 mph and all of them have a diminishing marginal return of safety by the time they reach 110 mph. just sayin. Nice spectra and 107 mph is respectable and all there is to be said about powering down is that you live and learn. Just like putting a 400 c.i. sbc in a 19' Schiada and blowing it up with only a running hours.

As for my boat, I am sure 100 mph is possible with this motor set up, I probably need to add a little more boost to get the HP where it needs to be to be a runner next to some of the other fast under 20' v-hulls out on the river right now. We will see.

 

[Froggystyle]

:fsakes take it to PM's.
I think the reality is there are few under 20' v hull boats that can go much faster than 100 mph and all of them have a diminishing marginal return of safety by the time they reach 110 mph. just sayin. Nice spectra and 107 mph is respectable and all there is to be said about powering down is that you live and learn. Just like putting a 400 c.i. sbc in a 19' Schiada and blowing it up with only a running hours.

As for my boat, I am sure 100 mph is possible with this motor set up, I probably need to add a little more boost to get the HP where it needs to be to be a runner next to some of the other fast under 20' v-hulls out on the river right now. We will see.

I think you'll hit a hundred easily. Like I said... Power ain't gonna be the problem...

I think you will have a better combo in any case. As I recall, the Schiada has a more pointed keel than the Spectra, and should handle a bit more speed.

 

[Froggystyle]

Any updates?? Needles approacheth.

 

[HolyMoly]

Any updates?? Needles approacheth.

When is the needles event? I'm thinking of dragging my Schiada Flatty out to advertise.

 

[jayteetrotter]

Any updates?? Needles approacheth.

The motor just got to the dyno. we are making a few minor adjustments to make sure she is ready to run tops. Obnoxious1 is working through a few minor changes on the motor and we should be all good to go. everyone is doing their best to try and get this thing in the boat for the show on the 22nd. Time only tells right now.

Some pictures of the motor on the dyno.

 

[wishiknew]

The motor just got to the dyno. we are making a few minor adjustments to make sure she is ready to run tops. Obnoxious1 is working through a few minor changes on the motor and we should be all good to go. everyone is doing their best to try and get this thing in the boat for the show on the 22nd. Time only tells right now.

Some pictures of the motor on the dyno.

Barry Is The Man !!!!!!!!!!

 

[HighVoltage329]

Looks bad ass :thumbup::thumbup:

 

[jayteetrotter]

Looks bad ass :thumbup::thumbup:

did you see those valve covers and carbs :yikes...??? just right. lol... Thanks again.

you gonna make it to needles?

 

[Backlash]

Jayteetrotter it looks beautiful! You are killing it! Nice frigging job my friend!!

This 19 will undoubtedly fly!

Henry

 

[HighVoltage329]

did you see those valve covers and carbs :yikes...??? just right. lol... Thanks again.

you gonna make it to needles?

Not going to make Needles. Wish it wasn't so far. Did the carbs work well? Require many changes?

 

[jayteetrotter]

Not going to make Needles. Wish it wasn't so far. Did the carbs work well? Require many changes?

needed all new gaskets etc... they were pouring fuel straight through at first. they should be perfect now.

 

[jayteetrotter]

So after the needles show I have had zero time to tinker on the boat between putting together my baby girls nursery and getting prepared to be a dad... Now she is here,:champagne: and its dirty diapers and no sleep.


With that said, I am making head way... Some recent photos of the new motor in the boat. I got it into the boat just in time for needles,


but I have not yet started the motor. I had to relocate the battery which is now done. Next, I am moving away from the magneto I was running and moving to an msd set up so I have had to consider an alternator. I will probably run a head mounted BBC alternator bracket until I can figure out exactly how and where to mount the alternator down lower.

Going to head back to the dyno shop in the next week or so to get a real indication on power on both race fuels and pump gas. Barry did a real good job getting the motor back together, just unfortunate I have had so little time to finish more quickly. I guess all good things are worth waiting for. Finally, I am now seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. Thanks GOD!

Still, so sad. Where does all the time go:hmm????

 

[jayteetrotter]

SO I got the motor back out of the boat and down to Vrbancic Bros. Racing in Ontario for a day session to Dyno and tune the new motor built by Obnoxious 1 (Barry Obler).
After the last go around at Westech and getting charged a half a day fee for about 60 seconds of run time with no love at all when I wanted to come back in and put the motor on the dyno the second time, I decided to explore alternative avenues. I spoke to one of the local speed shops in Rancho Cucamonga who turned me on to Don at Mountain View Motorsports who just put into their shop a state of the art dyno. Don was full of knowledge and offered an affordable day on the dyno for only $600.00. Pretty good I thought and was very interested in the opportunity but just not very convinced.
A few days later I was in the neighborhood and thought I would stop by Prime Marine and pick Mikey's brain for a minute. While I know he barely knows me, he was very friendly and open to share some of his knowledge at which point he suggested Vrbancic brothers Racing in Ontario, CA. I called them the next day and started talking with George about their cost to Dyno which was only $500.00. Jeez, a bargain I thought. I explained to them that this is the first blower deal and how this will now be the 3rd motor going into the boat etc. George was super friendly and knowledgeable. We decided to schedule a day and 6.7.14 was it. I just have to say, the day turned out really good. Both George and Bob were great! They have a wealth of knowledge and without the ego some of these other shops have to lug around. Needless to say, I would gladly dyno every motor from here forward with them knowing that I am getting a great product, a wealth of knowledge and a couple of cool old guys that have been around a long time. :thumbsup





The best pull of the day on the dyno sheet below. The motor is a pump gas 734 HP with strong torque from 3800-6000 rpms. She may do 100 mph on pump gas but if she doesn't she will get to her top speed pretty quick. Should be fun no matter what, that's for sure.

 

[jayteetrotter]

This was the best pull of the day, I just did not get the full video...
[video=youtube;9UDmx4TIEBs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UDmx4TIEBs[/video]

[video=youtube;SXjqI8BG9es]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXjqI8BG9es[/video]
Tuning and breaking in.
[video=youtube;ct_nO8u12YQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct_nO8u12YQ[/video]

 

[djunkie]

What are the details on that motor?

 

[obnoxious001]

What are the details on that motor?

It's a 496, with less than optimal condition 8-71 blower that held back it's full potential. It's not Jeremy's fault (nor mine), he bought into the project near the end, boost was only about 5 lbs. Torque curve looks pretty darn good!

 

[djunkie]

It's a 496, with less than optimal condition 8-71 blower that held back it's full potential. It's not Jeremy's fault (nor mine), he bought into the project near the end, boost was only about 5 lbs. Torque curve looks pretty darn good!

Sounds like it's got a lot of potential to make even more power then. My 496 made 665hp with a single 850 on top and only 10.5-1 comp. so I know that things gotta be capable of way more.

 

[obnoxious001]

Sounds like it's got a lot of potential to make even more power then. My 496 made 665hp with a single 850 on top and only 10.5-1 comp. so I know that things gotta be capable of way more.

5 lbs of boost on top of 8.5-1 compression ratio gives a theoretical compression of just over 11-1

 

[Racey]

That tow rig is focking badass :thumbsup

 

[jayteetrotter]

That tow rig is focking badass :thumbsup

1973 Chevy Crew Cab C/30. Best part is that I actually towed all the way to Needles from So Cal. Era specific tow rig was the idea. 1973 Chevy Truck and 1974 Schiada V-Drive.


The truck doesn't lay frame, but pretty close. Just put a new set of 22" wheels. I am pretty stoked how it turned out...

 

[jayteetrotter]

Sounds like it's got a lot of potential to make even more power then. My 496 made 665hp with a single 850 on top and only 10.5-1 comp. so I know that things gotta be capable of way more.

what sort of torque does that motor you have put out?

 

[djunkie]

what sort of torque does that motor you have put out?

665hp and 655tq