WTF GE & China

[Gramps]

Probably should be in the political section but oh well........

Yesterday I just caught the tail end of a news story about GE & China forming a partnership to build commercial airliners and going into competition with Boeing. WTF is with GE. I'll never buy a GE product again.

 

[Flyinbowtie]

Yup, all over the bizz sites and market info places today.
And, to rub salt in the wound, GE's CEO is the prez.'s personal leader and on his advisory council....for job creation in the U.S.

The gall of these people is amazing.

 

[RitcheyRch]

I have an engineer buddy working in China right now on the Comac 919 aircraft.

Comac C919 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Comac_C-919.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/8b/Comac_C-919.jpg/300px-Comac_C-919.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@en/thumb/8/8b/Comac_C-919.jpg/300px-Comac_C-919.jpg

 

[Gramps]

Jeffery Immelt should be hung for treason.

 

[Tom Brown]

Why are you upset about this, like you've just been sold out? Free trade and globalization is the hallmark of the party you vote for. It has been for coming up on 30 years now.

Q2/11 was the first quarter in which the US was not the largest market for computer products. Any guesses who is number one? Your next fortune cookie is going to read, "We numbew one now, round eyes!"

It's no longer about whether to partner with China/India/Vietnam/Philippines/etc. Now, if you don't partner, you don't get the biggest slice of those markets.

Anyway, it's good to see GE put their 3.2 billion dollar tax refund money to good use. I suppose it isn't really a refund since GE didn't pay any tax. They just got a government check.

Good things happen when you put money in the hands of "job creators". This will undoubtedly create a lot of jobs. lol! :thumbsup

 

[Flyinbowtie]

Well Tom,
I am upset because the environment in this country for producing anything is so toxic that stuff like this has been happening for years and our politicos won't fix it.

I am upset because the same people that are claiming they are doing everything can to bring jobs to the country are doing everything they can to make it impossible for people to get by without leaning on the gov't.

I am upset because the P.T.B. have so dulled the senses of most Americans that they do not feel the outrage over this nonsense that I do, that many of my fellow citizens have become nothing more than sheeple, waiting for the gov't. to handle everything, and regulate everything, from cradle to grave.

I am upset because both parties in the federal gov't have trampled on the Constitution seizing authority not granted to them by the law of the land. While both share responsibility, one is responsible for the active destruction of the American Economy, and the other is responsible for not having the balls to step up to the plate and say, No, no more.

I am upset because this crap has been going on for decades, and now we watch as they point fingers at each other. While a small group of people has stepped up and declared that there is an iceberg dead ahead in the course of our ship of state, the rest of the bastards are still dancing in the ballroom, and won't complain until the water begins lapping at their feet.

I am upset....you get the picture.

 

[Tom Brown]

Well Tom,
I am upset because the environment in this country for producing anything is so toxic that stuff like this has been happening for years and our politicos won't fix it.

No shit.

That's what blows my mind about the political evangelicals crying out, "My party is the way forward." I know a few people who rammed that shit down my throat for years, switched parties, and then started ramming the other party down my throat. WTF?

 

[Yellowboat]

You will find it very hard to not buy GE products... they make just about every thing.

 

[Gramps]

You will find it very hard to not buy GE products... they make just about every thing.

I realize that. If their brand isn't on an item, they probably have parts inside of it. And if not you can bet part of it is made in China.

As I get older both major political parties are pissing me off more. Now is seems that the best choice is the lesser of two evils.

 

[2Driver]

Just about every Aerospace company is trying to be a vendor to china in this project because it means billions of dollars of business. The choice is to watch your competition get the supplier business and put you under.

One of China's rules is if you want to be a vendor you need to be a partner and keep an open book to your designs and technology. Translated tell us how you do it.

I didn't see Foxes deal on this but they are always trying to kick GE's ass for one thing or another. a lot of it has to do with NBC being such liberal POS network.

 

[thetub]

I realize that. If their brand isn't on an item, they probably have parts inside of it. And if not you can bet part of it is made in China.

As I get older both major political parties are pissing me off more. Now is seems that the best choice is the lesser of two evils.

Yep,both parties are not what they once were.They are all in it for themselves now.Globalization means that we are going to end up with a very Rich elite group(both party of politicians ,ceos of publicly traded co.,bankers) and a very poor group,with a very small middle class.The elite of the world are running the show and keeping everyone else fighting with each other ,while they are laughing their way to the bank.

 

[Outnumbered]

Why are you upset about this, like you've just been sold out? Free trade and globalization is the hallmark of the party you vote for. It has been for coming up on 30 years now.

Q2/11 was the first quarter in which the US was not the largest market for computer products. Any guesses who is number one? Your next fortune cookie is going to read, "We numbew one now, round eyes!"

It's no longer about whether to partner with China/India/Vietnam/Philippines/etc. Now, if you don't partner, you don't get the biggest slice of those markets.

Anyway, it's good to see GE put their 3.2 billion dollar tax refund money to good use. I suppose it isn't really a refund since GE didn't pay any tax. They just got a government check.

Good things happen when you put money in the hands of "job creators". This will undoubtedly create a lot of jobs. lol! :thumbsup

You have to get over this party thing Tom. You assume all conservatives are die hard Republicans. We fiscal conservatives are sick and tired of the same thing you are. The Democrat and RINO globalist greed mentality is what is wrecking this country. I think FBT sums it up well in his post. And yes, putting the money in the hands of the job creators is a good thing, especially as an alternative to letting the government piss that tax money away. Unfortunately, examples like this deal here with GE and China demonstrates the corruption and good ol' boy network that is prevalent on both sides of the aisle. You cannot write off the benefits of a less restrictive business environment just because the leaders in Washington have become corrupt. We need to clean house, kick out the career politicians, and go back to the principles that made this country great.

Well Tom,
I am upset because the environment in this country for producing anything is so toxic that stuff like this has been happening for years and our politicos won't fix it.

I am upset because the same people that are claiming they are doing everything can to bring jobs to the country are doing everything they can to make it impossible for people to get by without leaning on the gov't.

I am upset because the P.T.B. have so dulled the senses of most Americans that they do not feel the outrage over this nonsense that I do, that many of my fellow citizens have become nothing more than sheeple, waiting for the gov't. to handle everything, and regulate everything, from cradle to grave.

I am upset because both parties in the federal gov't have trampled on the Constitution seizing authority not granted to them by the law of the land. While both share responsibility, one is responsible for the active destruction of the American Economy, and the other is responsible for not having the balls to step up to the plate and say, No, no more.

I am upset because this crap has been going on for decades, and now we watch as they point fingers at each other. While a small group of people has stepped up and declared that there is an iceberg dead ahead in the course of our ship of state, the rest of the bastards are still dancing in the ballroom, and won't complain until the water begins lapping at their feet.

I am upset....you get the picture.

That about sums it up:thumbsup

No shit.

That's what blows my mind about the political evangelicals crying out, "My party is the way forward." I know a few people who rammed that shit down my throat for years, switched parties, and then started ramming the other party down my throat. WTF?

These people are not well informed. You don't vote party, you vote principles, you vote based on the candidate's record. Ron Paul comes to mind as one who stands out from the crowd.

 

[Dettom]

Just about every Aerospace company is trying to be a vendor to china in this project because it means billions of dollars of business. The choice is to watch your competition get the supplier business and put you under.

One of China's rules is if you want to be a vendor you need to be a partner and keep an open book to your designs and technology. Translated tell us how you do it.

I didn't see Foxes deal on this but they are always trying to kick GE's ass for one thing or another. a lot of it has to do with NBC being such liberal POS network.

You're right..The chinese always work a deal where we have to give them access to our technology.. We're in deep shit, people. It does seem ironic that Imelt ,who is Obie's Jobs and Competitiveness Czar is taking his own company to the Chicoms..

 

[Outnumbered]

You're right..The chinese always work a deal where we have to give them access to our technology.. We're in deep shit, people. It does seem ironic that Imelt ,who is Obie's Jobs and Competitiveness Czar is taking his own company to the Chicoms..

It is not irony, it is greed and corruption:thumbsdown

 

[OCMerrill]

Why are you upset about this, like you've just been sold out? Free trade and globalization is the hallmark of the party you vote for. It has been for coming up on 30 years now.

Q2/11 was the first quarter in which the US was not the largest market for computer products. Any guesses who is number one? Your next fortune cookie is going to read, "We numbew one now, round eyes!"

It's no longer about whether to partner with China/India/Vietnam/Philippines/etc. Now, if you don't partner, you don't get the biggest slice of those markets.

Anyway, it's good to see GE put their 3.2 billion dollar tax refund money to good use. I suppose it isn't really a refund since GE didn't pay any tax. They just got a government check.

Good things happen when you put money in the hands of "job creators". This will undoubtedly create a lot of jobs. lol! :thumbsup

JBB can you ban this troll?

 

[whiteworks]

We cannot afford to manufacture in this country any more. Seriously we are not even competitive with china on this stuff, it all boils down to price point to the end consumer and by the time everyone in the US system gets there hand in the till the price is to high. game over. Granted there human rights violations and wages of workers is the underlying success to there game. workers health care basically consists of a water cooler in the corner of the factory and if the workers give them any problems at all they are gone and there spot is filled before they leave the building. You try and pull that in the USA and see what happens. The writing is on the wall and has been for sometime, The USA is out of the game and has zero chance of getting back in. Unless we were to nationalize everything, throw all human rights and regulations out the window and have an entire class of drone workers that live solely to produce we will not be able to compete. On top of that we are now outsourcing brain power, you can get 5 indian engineers for the price of one american engineer, same with most other IP fields. we are just no longer relative in this game:thumbsdown

 

[DaveC]

I agree with this. Both parties are corrupt and saying big business is the best thing for us all the time totally misses the point.

Of course Brown is just fawking with us, but I'm sure he knows we are just supporting the lesser of two evils as we see it. (or at least I think he does)

You have to get over this party thing Tom. You assume all conservatives are die hard Republicans. We fiscal conservatives are sick and tired of the same thing you are. The Democrat and RINO globalist greed mentality is what is wrecking this country. I think FBT sums it up well in his post. And yes, putting the money in the hands of the job creators is a good thing, especially as an alternative to letting the government piss that tax money away. Unfortunately, examples like this deal here with GE and China demonstrates the corruption and good ol' boy network that is prevalent on both sides of the aisle. You cannot write off the benefits of a less restrictive business environment just because the leaders in Washington have become corrupt. We need to clean house, kick out the career politicians, and go back to the principles that made this country great.


.

I am generally a supporter of Globalization. However we do not have a level playing field with China. They do not recognize our intellect property rights/laws and refuse to change to accomodate. Its not within their legal framework to do so. Our IT laws is what makes our country great, considering we don't manufacture much anymore. They just copy our ideas and mass produce them (i.e. they are a copy-cat)

As someone mentioned already, when there is a partnership with China, it always comes down to our companies trading our intellectual property for the right to distribute our products/services in their rather large and emerging market. Thats the deal. Give us your secrets and we will let you play in our sandbox. If not, go fawk off.

Its basically a deal with the devil.:thumbsdown

China needs to work on basic changes to intellectual property rules. They talk about it, but nothing is ever done.

 

[thetub]

I agree with this. Both parties are corrupt and saying big business is the best thing for us all the time totally misses the point.

Of course Brown is just fawking with us, but I'm sure he knows we are just supporting the lesser of two evils as we see it. (or at least I think he does)



I am generally a supporter of Globalization. However we do not have a level playing field with China. They do not recognize our intellect property rights/laws and refuse to change to accomodate. Its not within their legal framework to do so. Our IT laws is what makes our country great, considering we don't manufacture much anymore. They just copy our ideas and mass produce them (i.e. they are a copy-cat)

As someone mentioned already, when there is a partnership with China, it always comes down to our companies trading our intellectual property for the right to distribute our products/services in their rather large and emerging market. Thats the deal. Give us your secrets and we will let you play in our sandbox. If not, go fawk off.

Its basically a deal with the devil.:thumbsdown

China needs to work on basic changes to intellectual property rules. They talk about it, but nothing is ever done.

It gets tuff to demand change from your biggest lender.We put ourselves in a vulnerable position.

 

[whiteworks]

It gets tuff to demand change from your biggest lender.We put ourselves in a vulnerable position.

I tend to think that china is a bit more vulnerable as a lender than most relize. If we default they are fucked propper like, hell of a strategy if you think about it. We stop sending the check and back to the 1400's they go LOL. As it sits everyone says , hey those are our jobs. However no one is willing to work for $12.00 a week nor can they afford to.

 

[dego_red]

We are no longer governed by government, we are governed by big business.....:swear


red

 

[thetub]

I tend to think that china is a bit more vulnerable as a lender than most relize. If we default they are fucked propper like, hell of a strategy if you think about it. We stop sending the check and back to the 1400's they go LOL. As it sits everyone says , hey those are our jobs. However no one is willing to work for $12.00 a week nor can they afford to.

Its catch 22 I guess... If we default (the new American way),who knows what happens.. They are aligning themselves with Russia,Pakistan and everyone else who is jealous of the US. They are building up their military arsenal. I dont think we will see world war III in my lifetime ,but who knows.If they cripple us financially,which we are on the brink... devalue the dollar,not being the world currency anymore...

 

[pronstar]

I don't see what the big deal is.

If you want to succeed in China- which is a huge growth market - then you have to partner with the Chinese. Better to have GE do it and succeed, that some non-US company.

If you want to stay away from companies that partner with the Chinese government - one way or another the govt. is behind all large industry in China - then you'd better stay away from:
Ford
GM
VW
Volvo/Land Rover
Fiat/Chrysler
Daimler/Mercedes-Benz
BMW
Toyota
Nissan
Hyundai
...basically every automaker.
And these are just from the auto industry, every industry is like this.

 

[Gramps]

I don't see what the big deal is.

The big deal is they are going to be in direct competition with Boeing. If GE (an American company) wants to get in the airliner building business why don't they partner up with an American group? Immelt, the CEO of GE, is Oblama's, "make jobs for the U.S. czar". Isn't this Chinese thing sorta hypocritical?

 

[pronstar]

The big deal is they are going to be in direct competition with Boeing. If GE (an American company) wants to get in the airliner building business why don't they partner up with an American group? Immelt, the CEO of GE, is Oblama's, "make jobs for the U.S. czar". Isn't this Chinese thing sorta hypocritical?

I see what you're saying...

GE is already a supplier to Boeing and other aircraft makers, and they're getting a foothold with the Chinese now.

GE/Boeing won't have the market access that you need for China.
If you don't partner with the Chinese, you're shut out of the market.

Boeing already has Chinese suppliers, as well as joint ventures & subsidiaries that are partnered with the Chinese. So if the headlines don't say "Boeing partners with the Chinese" then they may as well say "Boeing subsidiaries are partnering with the Chinese" or "Boeing creates joint venture with the Chinese"...IMHO it's all the same thing, so in effect GE is late to the party.

Either way, it's better for a US company to reap the benefits, versus a company from another country.

 

[Gramps]

Either way, it's better for a US company to reap the benefits, versus a company from another country.

Exactly The part of the story that I did hear is that GE is sinking BILLIONS of $$$$$ in China...........that's money that is not going into the US

 

[pronstar]

Exactly The part of the story that I did hear is that GE is sinking BILLIONS of $$$$$ in China...........that's money that is not going into the US

It's really more of a capital investment that will reap profits for GE down the road.

Think of it this way, as an analogy:
Honda invests hundreds of millions to open a US factory.
Cars are made in America, by American workers, and are sold to Americans.
Profits go to the corporation, distributed among shareholders around the world.

So:
GE spends billions to open a Chinese factory.
Planes are made in China, by Chinese workers, and are sold to Chinese (and potentially non-Chinsese) airlines.
Profits go to the corporations in the partnership (one of which is GE), distributed among shareholders around the world.