Who will protect us ?

[jonnyd]

Once again some monster has attacked and killed innocent people for no apparent or logical reason. I guess each of us has someone or something to blame, whether its video games, guns, drugs, mental illness or whatever we can imagine. In the coming days we will hear about it from all the news agencies and once again the monster that perpetrated the awful crime will be given exactly what he wants, to become some sort of legend. It makes my blood boil just to see his pathetic name and picture plastered all over the news. I cannot find any one thing to blame for any of these sickening attacks that we witness time and again. I think we look for a cause so that we can some how control it. I dont believe that we can.
My two kids are essentially the same age as many of these young victims that were shot down in cold blood. I can only imagine how scary it must have been for these young people. I cant imagine how hurt their parents and loved ones must be right now and so my thoughts and prayers are with them. So what will we do ? Who will protect us and our loved ones. It seems almost impossible to think that we can, or somehow law enforcement can be every where at once, but I refuse to live in fear or worry.
I know that sometimes people don't like to hear anything religous, but I do know where my peace comes from and I know who protects me and my family. Some have said and will use the phrase pure evil when describing this stone hearted killer. And this is why I rely on my faith in Jesus for protection of my loved ones. These are my beliefs. I don't say them to try and bring people to my faith, but rather to share the comfort and security I enjoy by knowing my place in christ.

 

[Hammer]

I do not follow one religion or the other, I do have morals, integrity and standards I hold myself too ( I do make mistakes) . However I respect everyone's beliefs and religions, who am I to judge anyone...

I have a hypothetical (respectful)question for you, what if your kids were some of the victims ? Would your faith falter ? Did whoever your higher power decide it was time to take your loved ones from you ? IMO , I don't agree with that justification because good people die everyday from cancer, disease, murder, etc.etc........

What about murders rapists and other people who don't deserve to breathe? Did the higher power choose that they should live in jail and eat 3 meals a day ? Life isn't fair sometimes, bad things happen to good people.

Again not knocking anyone's religion or beliefs. Just a question .

What would you do ? How would you react ?

 

[pronstar]

That's sorta the problem a lot of people have with religion.

To play Devil's advocate...
How can God take all the credit for good things, and none of the blame for bad things?

Only the president of the United States can do that

 

[HOOTER SLED-]

That's sorta the problem a lot of people have with religion.

To play Devil's advocate...
How can God take all the credit for good things, and none of the blame for bad things?

Only the president of the United States can do that

think for yourselves folks.

 

[RiverDave]

Once again some monster has attacked and killed innocent people for no apparent or logical reason. I guess each of us has someone or something to blame, whether its video games, guns, drugs, mental illness or whatever we can imagine. In the coming days we will hear about it from all the news agencies and once again the monster that perpetrated the awful crime will be given exactly what he wants, to become some sort of legend. It makes my blood boil just to see his pathetic name and picture plastered all over the news. I cannot find any one thing to blame for any of these sickening attacks that we witness time and again. I think we look for a cause so that we can some how control it. I dont believe that we can.
My two kids are essentially the same age as many of these young victims that were shot down in cold blood. I can only imagine how scary it must have been for these young people. I cant imagine how hurt their parents and loved ones must be right now and so my thoughts and prayers are with them. So what will we do ? Who will protect us and our loved ones. It seems almost impossible to think that we can, or somehow law enforcement can be every where at once, but I refuse to live in fear or worry.
I know that sometimes people don't like to hear anything religous, but I do know where my peace comes from and I know who protects me and my family. Some have said and will use the phrase pure evil when describing this stone hearted killer. And this is why I rely on my faith in Jesus for protection of my loved ones. These are my beliefs. I don't say them to try and bring people to my faith, but rather to share the comfort and security I enjoy by knowing my place in christ.

You unknowingly answered your own question in your post.. The police can't be everywhere, only the citizens can be everywhere because we are everywhere. So the answer is the citizens must protect ourselves.

Your faith in god is just that.. But it reminds me of the drowning man.. A ship passes by and the man says, I am ok god will save me. A boat passes by and the same, this continues on. He finally drowns and at heavens gates he asks why god did you save me? God said "I sent you a ship, I sent you a boat.. I can't help you if you don't help yourself.".

God gave our framers the wisdom to include the right to bear arms. To out it bluntly there's your boat.. Don't let it pass you by. Faith in Jesus is great but it does not stop the strong from devouring the weak. If you think it does then you missed the entire point of the story.. Jesus got nailed to the cross, not the Romans..

 

[jonnyd]

RD, I will disagree with you in that I cant be with my family all of the time, thats the point. I do own guns and their not for hunting. I was a police officer and do believe in protecting myself and my family. We have taught our children self defense and I will defend my family, friends, and neighbors till I take my last breath. I also believe in helping yourself just as you do. I always have and always will. When my Dad died a couple of years ago I remember what some of his retired police friends said about him. That he was a warrior, that he was always the first one through the door and that he was the one you wanted in your corner when the shit hit the fan. My dad was also the nicest Christian man I have ever known.

 

[RiverDave]

RD, I will disagree with you in that I cant be with my family all of the time, thats the point. I do own guns and their not for hunting. I was a police officer and do believe in protecting myself and my family. We have taught our children self defense and I will defend my family, friends, and neighbors till I take my last breath. I also believe in helping yourself just as you do. I always have and always will. When my Dad died a couple of years ago I remember what some of his retired police friends said about him. That he was a warrior, that he was always the first one through the door and that he was the one you wanted in your corner when the shit hit the fan. My dad was also the nicest Christian man I have ever known.

Well said, and I'm sure I'm missing a lot of the conversation because it's in text.. But from the post, I would suggest teaching your family to protect themselves so that you don't have to defend them or worry while you are not around?

Either way, good conversation.. I feel the answer to "Who will protect us" is ourselves. I believe that we keep taking that further and further away from our society and more and more of this stuff keeps happening.

RD

 

[02Essex]

One person in that theatre with a CCW could have changed everything ... Liberals will paint the picture of the opposite that guns led to this travesty. But a gun also could have saved more or possibly everyones life ...i believe in god and gods will ... And there is a reason for everything , but I also believe that god has equipped me with enough common sense to do my best to protect my family .... San bernadino county is one of the only places in ca. That encourage CCW licenses ... That why I have one ...

 

[RiverDave]

One person in that theatre with a CCW could have changed everything ... Liberals will paint the picture of the opposite that guns led to this travesty. But a gun also could have saved more or possibly everyones life ...i believe in god and gods will ... And there is a reason for everything , but I also believe that god has equipped me with enough common sense to do my best to protect my family .... San bernadino county is one of the only places in ca. That encourage CCW licenses ... That why I have one ...

Guy was wearing full body armor.. How good of a shot do you have to be to hit someone (moving target?) in the face in a dark theater?

RD

 

[Enen]

I spent some time talking with our kids this morning. My oldest daughter is 13, and my son is 11.
I am actually taking Emilee (13 year old) to the movies with her friends in the next hour.
I asked her what she would do if something like that happened while she was at a movie.
We talked about situational awareness, and what she could do in this situation to survive.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RiverDave]

I spent some time talking with our kids this morning. My oldest daughter is 13, and my son is 11.
I am actually taking Emilee (13 year old) to the movies with her friends in the next hour.
I asked her what she would do if something like that happened while she was at a movie.
We talked about situational awareness, and what she could do in this situation to survive.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Other then push your ass down there stairs towards the shooter.. What did she say?

RD

 

[Guest]

Guy was wearing full body armor.. How good of a shot do you have to be to hit someone (moving target?) in the face in a dark theater?

RD

Body armor may (or may not) keep a bullet from penetrating you, but I would bet If he got hit anywhere center mass, he would be on the floor vomiting, and struggling to breathe....and not shooting any others..

 

[02Essex]

Guy was wearing full body armor.. How good of a shot do you have to be to hit someone (moving target?) in the face in a dark theater?

RD

So do you think that it ended better without some one returning fire???
I think the kids is obviously a coward he surrendered to the cops with out going down in a blaze of glory so maybe a few bullets down range at him might have changed his mind ..... and all body armor isn't 100% effective ..... it might not have changed a thing but if it saved one life or allowed people to get out of the theater while it broke his concentration way from the execution style killings then I would rather take that option....

 

[RiverDave]

Body armor may (or may not) keep a bullet from penetrating you, but I would bet If he got hit anywhere center mass, he would be on the floor vomiting, and struggling to breathe....and not shooting any others..

Maybe with the Judge.. Not with the pea shooters most people I know carry around..

RD

 

[OutCole'd]

Body armor may (or may not) keep a bullet from penetrating you, but I would bet If he got hit anywhere center mass, he would be on the floor vomiting, and struggling to breathe....and not shooting any others..

:thumbsup

 

[RiverDave]

So do you think that it ended better without some one returning fire???
I think the kids is obviously a coward he surrendered to the cops with out going down in a blaze of glory so maybe a few bullets down range at him might have changed his mind ..... and all body armor isn't 100% effective ..... it might not have changed a thing but if it saved one life or allowed people to get out of the theater while it broke his concentration way from the execution style killings then I would rather take that option....

Absolutely Not.. I wish it would not have happened to begin with.. But given the scenario, I wish someone would have taken him down, ripped that helmet off his dome, and beat him to death.. Maybe even curb the f'er on the stairs while doing it given the opportunity. If they shot him and hurt him through the armor a couple times before hand, that'd just be a bonus..

RD

 

[STV_Keith]

Guy was wearing full body armor.. How good of a shot do you have to be to hit someone (moving target?) in the face in a dark theater?
RD

Just because a bullet doesn't penetrate the garment, doesn't mean the force of that bullet can't do some damage. At close range, there is energy behind that round and blunt force trauma is effective. If nothing else, you get his attention in a big hurry, that he now has a threat. Maybe he decides to turn and run. Lots of what-ifs.

 

[Captain Dan]

Pray to god, but row for shore.

God helps them who help themselves, I was always taught.

 

[jonnyd]

Hammer,
I've heard these questions asked before. We wonder why God did not stop a tragedy from happening. Did we ask him to prevent it from happening ? It seems that just the mention of God these days illicits a negative reaction from many. I believe that our society has made it very difficult to even mention the name of Jesus. If we don't want him in our lives and ask him for protection then how can we blame him when something bad does happen. God gave us free will. The decision to do right, or wrong. I believe he wanted us to decide whether, or not to choose to believe in him. It wouldn't be very interesting if he controlled us completely. As for the question of how would I react if my child was a victim. I hope I never have to go through that, but I would find comfort knowing where they are going.

 

[LowRiver2]

Body armor may (or may not) keep a bullet from penetrating you, but I would bet If he got hit anywhere center mass, he would be on the floor vomiting, and struggling to breathe....and not shooting any others..

Precisely,

ReRead the shooting report of the North Hollywood Bank Robbery, .45's would have Knocked those two over, the 9's and .38's did not. We got authorized to carry .45's within 2 weeks of that incident.

Glock 30 and 36, both .45, very compact, and the 30 accepts 21's 13 rd. mags.

That's for knocking over body armor, much more to this incident though, obviously.

 

[02Essex]

Well I think we all agree this kid doesn't need to go to trial ........

 

[Enen]

Other then push your ass down there stairs towards the shooter.. What did she say?

RD

Crawl under the theater seat.

 

[460]

Maybe with the Judge.. Not with the pea shooters most people I know carry around..

RD

Your telling my a round from a .40 or .45 is a pee shooter? Lol come on

 

[RiverDave]

Your telling my a round from a .40 or .45 is a pee shooter? Lol come on

You carry a .45?

RD

 

[LowRiver2]

fits in Dickies shorts pockets: 11 rounds .45:thumbsup

 

[pronstar]

Precisely,

ReRead the shooting report of the North Hollywood Bank Robbery, .45's would have Knocked those two over, the 9's and .38's did not. We got authorized to carry .45's within 2 weeks of that incident.

Glock 30 and 36, both .45, very compact, and the 30 accepts 21's 13 rd. mags.

That's for knocking over body armor, much more to this incident though, obviously.

I'm not so sure that's true? While a .45 has stopping power, the force of a .45 bullet hitting body armor isn't necessarily going to knock you over.

Action = reaction.
The bullet flies in one direction, and an equal force is applied to the shooter in the form of recoil via the buttstock or handgrip. We don't see shooters falling over backward when they fire an 870 or a .44 revolver (or any other weapon that doesn't have a recoil mechanism).

The velocity of a round, combined with a small surface area, penetrates a person, and a wound cavity is created. But the force of the bullet isn't like someone hitting you with a baseball bat or steel pipe.

When you shoot ballistic gelatin, or a humnlike shooting mannequin, they don't just get knocked over or go flying backward. They do get penetrated, though.

 

[LowRiver2]

I go off real world LAPD shootings Pronstar, I can name 4 off the top of my head that the suspect fell back, lost mobility of an arm (strong side) with body armor, by being hit by a .45.

Gelatin ABSORBS a round, does not react to all the nerves/ muscle reflexes the hit of a .45 does impact on a human, true stories.

 

[LowRiver2]

The velocity of a round, combined with a small surface area, penetrates a person, and a wound cavity is created. But the force of the bullet isn't like someone hitting you with a baseball bat or steel pipe.

I have a couple of my old Level IIA vests you can put on and get hit with my .45 to prove that otherwise if you like:skull

 

[HolyMoly]

Lucas oil is all the protection I need. If it ever shows up. :grumble:

 

[460]

You carry a .45?

RD

I carry a glock 23 .40cal and when in Arizona I have it very very close by.

 

[pronstar]

I go off real world LAPD shootings Pronstar, I can name 4 off the top of my head that the suspect fell back, lost mobility of an arm (strong side) with body armor, by being hit by a .45.

Gelatin ABSORBS a round, does not react to all the nerves/ muscle reflexes the hit of a .45 does impact on a human, true stories.

Yeah I definitely don't have the real-world experience that you do, but let me clarify what I'm saying.

An assailant can collapse in reaction to a bullet's penetration.

But I'm not convinced an armor-wearing man will get knocked down due to transfer of energy, with no penetration.

Youtube videos aren't exactly courtroom proof, but some of them reinforce a lot of what I've read and studied (I was pre-med at UCI and we studied some of this).

Here's a video (looks Canadian ) of a man with steel plate armor, standing on one leg, getting shot point blank with a 7.62 NATO rifle round, no doubt carrying more energy than a .45
He definitely reacts to the shot, but doesn't get "knocked down."

Bullets do not knock down or throw people through the air - YouTube



And this guy is shot with a .40 and he's not falling over, either.

Discreet Body Armor: Live Fire Demonstration - DBA Computer Case - YouTube


I dunno, I've shot a lot of things with some heavy rounds, and even things that the bullet doesn't exit (so all of the energy is transferred to the heavy target) don't seem to react with the force I would equate to simply knocking a grown man down.
But it would leave a pretty damned big hole in the guy, that's for sure, and his reaction to that would surely be to collapse.

At any rate, I definitely have never seen a grown man, wearing body armor, get shot in the real world.
Book smarts ain't the same as street smarts.

 

[Dettom]

That's sorta the problem a lot of people have with religion.

To play Devil's advocate...
How can God take all the credit for good things, and none of the blame for bad things?

Only the president of the United States can do that

Pronstar, I think many people forget that among the many gifts God has given us, is the gift of freewill. Were it not for freewill, our existence would be very mundane and boring. Everything would be the same everyday. Freewill gives you the ability to believe or not, to rationalize or not. To use it for good or bad, or not...just sayin'

 

[Deleted Account]

At any rate, I definitely have never seen a grown man, wearing body armor, get shot in the real world.
Book smarts ain't the same as street smarts.

If I had to shoot somebody, I would burn him down to the ground. Not hey, I hit you once, go play dead. I mean as many chest shots as I could get, if the head shots weren't getting it too.:skull Training with LEO versus military guys you see a difference. Military guys don't get sued...

 

[Carlson-jet]

Delusions of grandeur. Visions of splendor.

I love these threads.

 

[The Doctor]

Interesting thread indeed and some interesting information to boot.
I believe a single citizen with a weapon does make a difference of how far something like this will go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t5f5AwkkiY

Also lots of talk about God but not much heard about Satan? I wonder why? Both exist and both influence people that allow their influence.

I also know that such a tragedy is exponentially experienced when it becomes personal. A young lady in our Church lost her brother in that shooting this morning. I spent part of the afternoon over with them and I can assure you that it becomes far more than a story line, news cast or forum discussion when you are preparing for a funeral for your brother as she now is. I can assure you that family wishes there could have been a defensive shooter as well there while the perpetrator continued to reload his weapons then empty them.

 

[The Doctor]

If I had to shoot somebody, I would burn him down to the ground. Not hey, I hit you once, go play dead. I mean as many chest shots as I could get, if the head shots weren't getting it too.:skull Training with LEO versus military guys you see a difference. Military guys don't get sued...

I was carefully trained very early on in the use and care of firearms. I was also trained to never even consider taking a human life unless it was in self defense at which point the sequence is "two to the body, one to the head, repeated until reloading was necessary or the job was done beyond doubt."

 

[Carlson-jet]

Doc, I hate to point this small fact out, but there are absolutly "0" similarities between the video you posted and what happened in Aurora. Having a gun drawn on you at point blank range while firing away in the dark in an extremely crowded area with hundreds of inocent bystanders is so far removed it's not right to post such an obscure video.

My own thoughts:
I've had 2 weapons pulled on me at point blank in my short life. Both times there was never a second when I thought about fumbling for a concealed weapon, flipping the safety then loading a round into the chamber before being able to be "Armed". Why, because there were other people around me who did not feel the same way I do towards self defense. I did excatly what flight or fight told me to do. Shut the fuck up, remain calm and come back a better soldier, which I did. Both perps got what was comming to them when the time was right on my terms.
Personally I don't advocate CCW. I think if all were to have a sidearm in plain view at all times, aholes would be a hell of a lot less likely to engage in such pathetic behavior. To me, the constitution says I'm able to own a trident sub for my own personal protection. That is a different thread though.
I don't disagree with the right for one to protect themselves, I never have and never will. But IMO NOBODY has the right nor my approval in the name of self defense to open fire in such time and place as a dark crowded theater unless they are 2 inches from the target or they are defending the constitution. If folks are that concerned about protection then they would be a hell of a lot better off wearing personal protection or accept that some fuknut might come bursting through a side door and shooting at random. I have a few more thoughts but I don't want to come off as a completely uncompassionate psycho.

 

[rivermobster]

What REALLY gets to me about this thread is...

We have a retired LEO asking "who is going to protect us?"


Really??? How fucking sad is that???

 

[LowRiver2]

Here's a video (looks Canadian ) of a man with steel plate armor, standing on one leg, getting shot point blank with a 7.62 NATO rifle round, no doubt carrying more energy than a .45
He definitely reacts to the shot, but doesn't get "knocked down."


Bullets do not knock down or throw people through the air - YouTube

You're missing a BIG difference, those guys EXPECTED the hit. Most attackers (civillian, non war time), are not expecting or anticipating getting hit, and many (proven shootings in LAPD), once hit, go to flight mode, or, at least, give enough delay time to make a better shot placement and take out the threat.

Hell, I can take a full 5 second taser shot and still stand, IF I'm anticipating it.


As for single shots making guys "fly", again, you ever seen a man hit with 450 GRAINS of Federal 12 gauge slug at 20 feet? I have, yes, they "fly":skull

 

[Guest]

As for single shots making guys "fly", again, you ever seen a man hit with 450 GRAINS of Federal 12 gauge slug at 20 feet? I have, yes, they "fly":skull

...bnag!

 

[LowRiver2]

...bnag!

Exactly,

coupled with the 14" barrel of a Benelli M4 with rifled barrel.....Mission Accomplished:thumbsup

 

[jonnyd]

Rivermobster,
So far this thread has really brought up some good questions and view points. One of the points I was trying to make is something nobody has even addressed, and that is that these monsters if even in their own mind become almost media sensations. Their pictures and life stories become the main focus of the story and they become a legend. I think that this is part of the reason they perpetrate these crimes is to receive the attention they have never gotten before. The title of the thread was also to share what I believe. We live in some crazy times. We are witnessing more of these kinds of incidents and I will always encourage others to be aware and be ready to defend themselves. Law Enforcement cannot be everywhere. Sometimes it does just take one brave person to save the day, or end a situation such as this one. I do have a strong belief in God. That helps me to not live in fear, not so much for my own safety, but for my loved ones that are out there where situations can arise. Just my belief!!

 

[t&y]

Guy was wearing full body armor.. How good of a shot do you have to be to hit someone (moving target?) in the face in a dark theater?

RD

Just got back from a week on the water. Had no idea anything went down until we saw flags at half staff in Baker. The very first thing that popped into my mind was how many people in the theater had a weapon and why is the guy not dead. It's not that hard in CO. to get a CCW. Of course not having been there it's not really fair to play monday night quarter back so I'll leave it at that.

More than likely he is in the "spray and pray" realm and there is no way can he focuss on everyone at once. Also remember body armor doesn't prevent pain and or injury from the impact of the bullets hitting you, it only prevents (if it's working properly) the bullet from penetrating.

My plan would be get as much concealment as I can, smooth steady press, and watch him fall. With my 2" revolver I can hit 10 ring from 25 yards out, better with the compact 9. Should be enough to cover the distance in a theater.

Not claiming to be rambo, and I full well know once I fire if he's paying any attention at all I will draw return fire. I'm willing to take that chance and if I don't take him out, hopefully my actions give some other brave soul in there the opportunity to charge and take him down, shoot him, or get the F' out.

No absolutes in any of it, but that is and would be the plan. I go over shit like this in my head daily.

 

[SydneyRaysDad]

Guy was wearing full body armor.. How good of a shot do you have to be to hit someone (moving target?) in the face in a dark theater?

RD

RD If somebody was puttin rounds on that guy I guarantee he would have been thinking a lot less about shooting and more about getting out of the there. Body armor doesn't stop you from feeling pain, it only keeps the bullet from penetrating your hide.

This POS was living out some sick fantasy and I promise you someone shooting back wasn't in his plans! He would have done everything in his power to make himself scarce!

 

[Carlson-jet]

That really didn't seem to be the case of the 1997 North Hollywood shootout. I don't remember those guys running away so fast. I'm thinking there were a few moments of clarity going on that day for some LEO. :headscratch:

 

[t&y]

That really didn't seem to be the case of the 1997 North Hollywood shootout. I don't remember those guys running away so fast. I'm thinking there were a few moments of clarity going on that day for some LEO. :headscratch:

Two different scenario's. North HollyWood you had two guys going into a bank to rob it at gun point. Pretty sure anybody out there old enough to purchase body armor and a gun already knows banks have direct lines and silent alarms which will trigger a police response. Many have armed guards. Those guys went in expecting to meet resistance.

This fucking coward went to a late night showing of a movie based off of a comic book. Not even close to robbing a bank or the North HollyWood shooters.

 

[Lavey29]

Lot of good points brought up in the thread about a tragic incident. I have a few comments. I am a firm believer in the 2nd amendment and believe honest law abiding citizens have the right to bear arms and I have no problems with them using that right in a CCW capacity as well. I feel if you are going to take on that level of responsibility then you should be responsible enough to train and be familiar with your weapons and be able to respond (if you choose to) a situation like that happened in Co. Someone just blasting away in a crowded dark theater like that at the suspect could cause additional injuries even though they were just trying to help by taking out the dirtbag.

Now of course additional problems could develop if you (the good guy) are armed with your handgun when they first cops arrive on scene. They are not going to know you are the good guy and not the bad guy so that is another consideration that needs to be planned for in advance.

This dirtbag is probably insane and apparently only acquired his weapons a few months prior. I am a firm believer in thorough background checks and waiting periods for gun purchases but there is no single way to prevent (100% of the time) people such as this from acquiring guns. Now the gun hating anti 2nd mostly California living liberals will be screaming for even more tighter gun control and limited access. Which may lead to even further government limitations of your 2nd amendment right.

My thoughts and prayers go out for those killed or injured especially the children and their families.

 

[LowRiver2]

That really didn't seem to be the case of the 1997 North Hollywood shootout. I don't remember those guys running away so fast. I'm thinking there were a few moments of clarity going on that day for some LEO.

COMPLETELY DIFFERENT:

Those two had already taken on, KILLED two ARMED VAULT truck operators, had ALREADY robbed two banks in TAKEOVER style.

They TOOK drugs prior to incident to CALM down, not go to adreneline when they got shot at, took rounds.

Most lone wolf gunmen out to KILL people as their PRIORITY will CEASE fire or RETREAT when confronted. NORTH HOLLYWOOD BANK ROBBERS KNEW they would encounter US and were ready to do BATTLE


CAPS intended, my dept. you're talking about, I might just know a LITTLE about the incident, and am friends with the Glendale Cop that busted them a year earlier and had to deal with the F'ing judge that GAVE the SAME guns back at trial for the possession of robbery tools case my buddy got them on.

Too bad, N. Hollywood would have never happened if that judge had the STONES to take those A'holes's guns/ balistic suits away a year prior

Little known FACT.

 

[PolarBearKing]

The reason I don't carry isn't because its illeagal, its because it is a whole lot of responsibility. I also haven't felt threatened enough....but that may be changing in the near future.

Having said that, wasn't it Jesus who said you should turn the other cheek? If that's the case, where does that leave the armed Christian?

 

[Froggystyle]

Guy was wearing full body armor.. How good of a shot do you have to be to hit someone (moving target?) in the face in a dark theater?

RD

Easy shot. Point blank, with his gun after tackling him from behind because he can't see very well through a gas mask.

I have shot, no shit, 20,000 rounds wearing a gas mask. It sucks. Your situational awareness is garbage, and the only way you can work is to run a wall and trust you buddy next to you to run his.

I don't want to sound like a keyboard tough guy... but you would have found me moving toward the gunfire for sure.

So... to answer the OP's question. I'll protect you... and others like me.