Wheel balancing issue

[702sandman]

So I bought the wife a Benz for us to play with and of course I had to put rims on it well I didn’t like anything in the stock 21” size so I went with a optional 22” size that Mercedes recommends. I bought the rims from audio city in Cali and the Michelins thru a friend here in vegas, I didn’t skimp on the tires since I didn’t want a shitty ride. Well after 3 different shops trying to balance them I still have a little annoying bounce around 70 mph and above. Up to that point they ride amazing and feel perfect. We have done the road force balance also but nothing seems to affect the high speed area. The shitty part is that since I didnt buy them as a set from a company I can’t just take them back and say fix them. Any experts on here with some additional suggestions ?

 

[ChrisV]

So I bought the wife a Benz for us to play with and of course I had to put rims on it well I didn’t like anything in the stock 21” size so I went with a optional 22” size that Mercedes recommends. I bought the rims from audio city in Cali and the Michelins thru a friend here in vegas, I didn’t skimp on the tires since I didn’t want a shitty ride. Well after 3 different shops trying to balance them I still have a little annoying bounce around 70 mph and above. Up to that point they ride amazing and feel perfect. We have done the road force balance also but nothing seems to affect the high speed area. The shitty part is that since I didnt buy them as a set from a company I can’t just take them back and say fix them. Any experts on here with some additional suggestions ?


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Get it road force balanced.

 

[fishing fool]

Have you tried to balance just the wheels, to see if that is the issue?
Maybe play with air pressure to see if that helps.

 

[JD D05]

This is the most annoying shit ever. I have had to deal with this a few times mostly with dually's. I put a wider wheel on my Raptor with the same tires and had the exact same deal at 70 ish. I had 2 shops try and fail, the second shop didn't even actually try and fix didn't even take the wheels off just said they did. Went to a 3rd shop talked to the manager and laid $100 bill on the counter and said that a tip for the guy in back that can actually balance these so I don't blow my head off and they got it perfect.

 

[702sandman]

This is the most annoying shit ever. I have had to deal with this a few times mostly with dually's. I put a wider wheel on my Raptor with the same tires and had the exact same deal at 70 ish. I had 2 shops try and fail, the second shop didn't even actually try and fix didn't even take the wheels off just said they did. Went to a 3rd shop talked to the manager and laid $100 bill on the counter and said that a tip for the guy in back that can actually balance these so I don't blow my head off and they got it perfect.

The 3rd shop was a friends shop and he personally said he did the road balance and said they first took the tires off and checked the wheels for run out and they were good. Then they re did the road Balance and said it took half the weight and we’re right in specs. At this point I’m willing to go where ever I need to in order to get it right. Seems like it needs a high speed balance, or I’ve read some people can balance on the car so they can run up to 100+ mph. If worse case scenario I’ll just buy a set of 21” wheels and go back with the stock tires.

 

[monkeyswrench]

If the wheels are true, and the tires balance, is there a chance it's something in a drive axle or wheel bearing causing a vibration? Usually if it's one tire, you can change positions and it will move. If all four are goofy, will rattle your teeth.

 

[702sandman]

If the wheels are true, and the tires balance, is there a chance it's something in a drive axle or wheel bearing causing a vibration? Usually if it's one tire, you can change positions and it will move. If all four are goofy, will rattle your teeth.

They are staggered front to rear, so I can only go side to side. As a test I put the stock 2 front tires on it to isolate front to rear shimmy and it rode perfect so it’s definitely coming from the 2 fronts As far as I can tell.

 

[Crazyhippy]

AWD? Staggered being slightly different sizes could be causing binding at speed?

 

[702sandman]

AWD? Staggered being slightly different sizes could be causing binding at speed?

The stock wheels are staggered also , I went with same set up just 1” bigger wheels

 

[outboard_256]

maybe try balance beads. They only work at high speeds but seems like that is what you need.

 

[02HoWaRd26]

Have you tried a different prop ?

 

[lbhsbz]

Are the center pilot holes the correct size?

 

[riverroyal]

Balance beads on this size won't get it right.
Hub centric rings needed? A tire shop would know that.
Dismount and check wheel balance for sure.
IF road force was done the tire should have been spun on the wheel to get it right. Not just keep adding weights.
You may need to find a specialty shop that does high end.

I went though this in December. 2 full sets of toyos and finally ended up with nittos.
8 attempts before gosch ford got the truck. They got it right finally.

F ing made me insane

 

[Flying_Lavey]

I n hoping they did a multi-point balance since you are having the vibration issue. When I worked at Big Brand some of the larger, more high end wheels needed weights along the inner and outer beads of different amounts and locations.

 

[Long Way Home]

At the time I had a F250 and went to Costco for tires, purchase new BFG , they could not get two of the tires to balance, kid doing it said he was having problems, my stock wheels were most likely bent, so they put the wheels on the balancer with no problems, it was the tire, they put two of my old tires back on and reordered some new BFG's.

 

[702sandman]

Are the center pilot holes the correct size?

Yes they have the hub centric centering rings installed I verified that.

 

[702sandman]

Balance beads on this size won't get it right.
Hub centric rings needed? A tire shop would know that.
Dismount and check wheel balance for sure.
IF road force was done the tire should have been spun on the wheel to get it right. Not just keep adding weights.
You may need to find a specialty shop that does high end.

I went though this in December. 2 full sets of toyos and finally ended up with nittos.
8 attempts before gosch ford got the truck. They got it right finally.

F ing made me insane

That’s my next step is to find maybe a high end place to get it handled

 

[702sandman]

Have you tried a different prop ?

Lol Pete I even went up to a cleaver and it didn’t make any difference

 

[TimeBandit]

I knew the owner of a Euro shop who had one of the first Hunter "road force" balancers.

He would check rims before he mounted the tires and said 25% of the aftermarket rims were failing.

It's been years since I had a true balance problem, lately it's flat spots from not driving the cars enough.

They put beads in my front motorcycle tire at the last swap, no issues, feels "balanced" to 90+

 

[DaveH]

Yes they have the hub centric centering rings installed I verified that.

and this is likely the problem. rings are BS. if you didnt buy the correct hub centric wheel for your application that doesnt need rings, you will never get it to balance.

 

[monkeyswrench]

and this is likely the problem. rings are BS. if you didnt buy the correct hub centric wheel for your application that doesnt need rings, you will never get it to balance.

For those of us that aren't in the know on these types of wheels, is the hub-centric adapter a slip on ring type deal? I know the factory type wheel is damn near a press fit, they get stuck pretty good with some oxidation. If the ring drops on, and the wheel basically drops on to that, then there are at least two points that could allow movement?

 

[DaveH]

For those of us that aren't in the know on these types of wheels, is the hub-centric adapter a slip on ring type deal? I know the factory type wheel is damn near a press fit, they get stuck pretty good with some oxidation. If the ring drops on, and the wheel basically drops on to that, then there are at least two points that could allow movement?

hub centric wheels do NOT use the studs/lugs to center the wheel. Instead, as you pointed out, hub centric wheels use a very precise fit machined into the wheel and hub. the lugs are there to just keep the wheels bolted on the car.

the rings are for NON hub centric wheels to be able to fit on these cars.

you would be surprised how many OEM vehicles (even trucks) use hub centric wheels. the rings are nothing more then the aftermarket trying to sell you a wheel that isnt designed for your car.

some have gotten away successfully using the ring adapters, but there are countless stories like this...... The OP has already stated the issue goes away when he goes back to OEM wheels.

 

[rrrr]

Call them wheels instead of rims, vato. Other than that I got nothing.

 

[77charger]

I had two tires on my truck replaced recently. New rears drove around town all was fine. They were aired to 65psi. I got on fwy and about 60 I started getting a vibration got worse at 70 drove to where I was going anyways. Got there decided to drop tires to 45 where I run rears and it got smoother went back to discount tire to rebalance.

Guy tell me one was slightly off but not much get on fwy again with 65 psi only slightly better again drop pressure gets better no doubt. Haven’t taken back since but weird it only acts out of balance with more psi. Weird thing I tow my trailer air up to 70 and now out of balance feel but no trailer get the shakes again

 

[rivermobster]

hub centric wheels do NOT use the studs/lugs to center the wheel. Instead, as you pointed out, hub centric wheels use a very precise fit machined into the wheel and hub. the lugs are there to just keep the wheels bolted on the car.

the rings are for NON hub centric wheels to be able to fit on these cars.

you would be surprised how many OEM vehicles (even trucks) use hub centric wheels. the rings are nothing more then the aftermarket trying to sell you a wheel that isnt designed for your car.

some have gotten away successfully using the ring adapters, but there are countless stories like this...... The OP has already stated the issue goes away when he goes back to OEM wheels.

What he said. ^^^

When I worked at BMW, you literally had to take a pry bar to a factory wheel, to get it off the hub the first time. The wheels are on the hub TIGHT!

We Always hand wire brushed the hubs and wheel centers clean, and reinstalled em with a thin coat of white grease.

Aftermarket wheels seldom fit like factory wheels do.

 

[CoolCruzin]

Just a thought- slime in the tire will do this sometimes.

 

[702sandman]

It very well could be the hub centric thing so I wonder if it can be balanced on the car, I have seen some videos of this being done. But if I ever take the wheels off it might come right back. I’m wondering if giovana could do a specific hub centric set that matches my car exactly.

 

[575cat]

On car balancer

 

[81Sprint]

I literally just went through this, bought some aftermarket Asanti staggered wheels for my wife's BMW. From Audiocity as well, and was getting vibration on the freeway over 70. I took it back to Discount and had them rebalance the tires friday, kid as he's telling me it is done says hey you don't have any hub rings on those wheels. Nice to know as they put the tires on for me a month ago, or maybe who did it didn't pay attention. I ordered them right then and put them on last night, vibration was gone driving to work this morning.

 

[Bigbore500r]

Check if it has hub centric wheels from the factory, and if the new rims are hub or lug centric

Another possible thing, if that doesn't lead to an answer -
Should'nt need to do balance beads for a performance car like this Benz, but then again - big heavy 22" wheels aren't the best for performance, and with the huge width of the tires on those Benz SUV's im sure the wheel / tire are a heavy SOB. Balance beads may be the ticket. It's the only thing that fixed my wifes Jeep, she has super heavy 20x12 wheels with real heavy 35x12x20 tires, and despite being rebalanced 4 times every which way from sunday, it would vibrate over 70. Balance beads fixed it 100% and I can run 90+ (as fast as i've tried.....lol) with zero vibration

 

[Jay Dub]

As other have suggested, I think its a hub-centric versus lug-centric issue. Some think hub rigs work others disagree.

 

[Ace in the Hole]

What he said. ^^^

When I worked at BMW, you literally had to take a pry bar to a factory wheel, to get it off the hub the first time. The wheels are on the hub TIGHT!

We Always hand wire brushed the hubs and wheel centers clean, and reinstalled em with a thin coat of white grease.

Aftermarket wheels seldom fit like factory wheels do.

I'm religious about this on mine...you are exactly right.

 

[702sandman]

So I found this place in Texas that makes billet hub Centric rings and ordered a set that is exactly to my specs that I measured. The little plastic ones that are on the car have space on both bore sides so they are absolutely doing nothing to center my wheels on the bore. so fingers crossed this will solve my issue.

 

[DaveH]

So I found this place in Texas that makes billet hub Centric rings and ordered a set that is exactly to my specs that I measured. The little plastic ones that are on the car have space on both bore sides so they are absolutely doing nothing to center my wheels on the bore. so fingers crossed this will solve my issue.


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wait....tire shops couldnt see the play and plastic rings? i have lost all faith in any professionals anymore.

 

[702sandman]

wait....tire shops couldnt see the play and plastic rings? i have lost all faith in any professionals anymore.

I’m convinced there are not many people out there that actually can do a correct job anymore

 

[81Sprint]

wait....tire shops couldnt see the play and plastic rings? i have lost all faith in any professionals anymore.

Discount put tires on the new wheels out the box and put them on the car, never even mentioned I needed or was missing the hub rings. Until I went back for the rebalance

 

[Bajastu]

Balance beads are for 33", 35", and 37"+ tires. A Euro car should never need beads to correct a hub centric issue.

 

[702sandman]

Some good news update. I ordered the hub centric rings, installed them and took it for a drive. The freaking rings actually were the problem and the hobble/bounce at 65 plus in now gone!! best 100 bucks I’ve spent yet lol hopefully this info helps someone in the future

 

[Jay Dub]

Some good news update. I ordered the hub centric rings, installed them and took it for a drive. The freaking rings actually were the problem and the hobble/bounce at 65 plus in now gone!! best 100 bucks I’ve spent yet lol hopefully this info helps someone in the future

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great news. congrats!

 

[HALLETT BOY]

wait....tire shops couldnt see the play and plastic rings? i have lost all faith in any professionals anymore.

Ha , my Son took his truck to one of a thousand tire shops on Thousand Oaks Blvd in TO ,for a tire plug , hears a bang in the waiting room , his truck fell about 1.5 ft off the rack . Gets home and calls me and says Tpms light is still on , I say check air pressure , it had like 12lbs in it ! These are the new generation auto techs , dealers from what I hear aren’t much better .

 

[rivermobster]

Ha , my Son took his truck to one of a thousand tire shops on Thousand Oaks Blvd in TO ,for a tire plug , hears a bang in the waiting room , his truck fell about 1.5 ft off the rack . Gets home and calls me and says Tpms light is still on , I say check air pressure , it had like 12lbs in it ! These are the new generation auto techs , dealers from what I hear aren’t much better .

Dealership techs will depend on the Shop Forman for guidance and the service manager, willing to Pay for good people. Good techs don't work cheap.

Not all dealerships are the same.

Tire jockeys in a tire store? You're Guaranteed nothing but bone heads, unless its a private/family owned store.

HTW gets all of my business.

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