What happened to the affordable family performance boat?

[hallett21]

I wonder?

What’s the difference in comparable drive train price between then and now?

What’s the difference in price between the old standard fuel tanks and today’s CARB compliant tanks?

Then there’s the old school gauge package vs today’s digical screens and the ridiculous price of the wiring harnes to run it vs the old school hand made wiring?

A ton of variables to consider.

I think if you just do one screen you break even or save money vs the amount of gauges (and more importantly labor) to give the driver the same info.

Tach
Speedometer
Water pressure
Motor temp
Trim gauge
Hour meter
Oil pressure
Volt meter
Trim tabs (arguable since not every boat has them)

Of course we need 4 screens so every passenger can read the boat info lol.

 

[Wicky]

Biden is working on destoying the middle class. Affordable family performance boat is just an oxymoron, now. It's as if the boat industry knows there won't be a middle of the road for much longer. That said, look into an Allison XB21 with a 250 or 300. 300 you will run triples with the prosport.

 

[C-Ya]

Just some food for thought……..

The Baby Boomer generation is retiring in droves right now. These newly retired have had an influence in just about every leisure market. Travel, RV’s, Collector Cars, Boats, and any other retirement goody. They buy 2nd homes in trendy places, then outfit the shit out of them. That market isn’t going anywhere in the near future. It will probably continue to put pressure on all leisure products. It is definitely having an effect.

I live in SoFlo, where it looks like A LOT of people, especially retirees, have money to burn! A full blown dumpster fire of cash would hardly effect them. It’s humbling! Lol I feel SO POOR, compared to others, in my neighborhood. But that is the way it is in South Florida. Ostentatious wealth……… Everywhere!

 

[Shlbyntro]

Just some food for thought……..

The Baby Boomer generation is retiring in droves right now. These newly retired have had an influence in just about every leisure market. Travel, RV’s, Collector Cars, Boats, and any other retirement goody. They buy 2nd homes in trendy places, then outfit the shit out of them. That market isn’t going anywhere in the near future. It will probably continue to put pressure on all leisure products. It is definitely having an effect.

I live in SoFlo, where it looks like A LOT of people, especially retirees, have money to burn! A full blown dumpster fire of cash would hardly effect them. It’s humbling! Lol I feel SO POOR, compared to others, in my neighborhood. But that is the way it is in South Florida. Ostentatious wealth……… Everywhere!

ya but you have a dock

 

[JLG614]

One thing that has not been discussed is profit per boat. In my head thats what I would consider. Why build 20-30 small, medium boats per year for 10% profit each when I can build 10 large boats per year for 20-30% profit. I have no idea what the margins are on boats I'm just throwing numbers as an example. Its really simple business practice. Less work, less people to deal with, less staff ect, Same profit at the end of the day. I'm sure after 08 all the manufacturers stepped back and rethought their business model

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

One thing that has not been discussed is profit per boat. In my head thats what I would consider. Why build 20-30 small, medium boats per year for 10% profit each when I can build 10 large boats per year for 20-30% profit. I have no idea what the margins are on boats I'm just throwing numbers as an example. Its really simple business practice. Less work, less people to deal with, less staff ect, Same profit at the end of the day. I'm sure after 08 all the manufacturers stepped back and rethought their business model

Yep. Less customers to deal with, less work overall. That is what most every custom boat builder has realized in the last 10 years. The longer their lines get, the higher the prices get.

 

[GRANT@FUNCO]

So much to unpack here

Ultimatley the MARKET/CONSUMER dictates expandable income product demand.

 

[was thatguy]

Nothing happened to them.
They’re just $250K now.

 

[RiverDave]

There’s very little difference in price to build a 21’ boat or a 25’ boat.. but there is a major difference in retail.

Quite simply the larger boats bring better profit margins.

Lee at Schiada is one of the few if you build a 20’ - 24’ the price is the same as far as hull interior etc

 

[white tortilla]

Here’s 30 years ago.

 

[SOCALCRICKETT]

He is a copy of the original receipt for my schiada...


Times have changed for sure

 

[Kenboat]

In 1990 built a 22 Talon with 2.5 Merc off shore, jackplate, trailer, custom graphics.
Spent 24K and grossed 85K. Boat would run 95 with just myself and low 80's with four.
It was a tough to afford it and then at 65 hours a fuel injector failed at 6000 rpm and toasted the block.
Warranty then was 50 hours on Merc Racing engines.
$6500 for a new long block then sold it, wish I had just slapped a 225 ProMax on it from the start probably would still have it.

 

[530RL]

 

[Wave Hi]

View attachment 1207814

Damn , and a deep discount...

 

[hallett21]

View attachment 1207814

One thing that has not been discussed is profit per boat. In my head thats what I would consider. Why build 20-30 small, medium boats per year for 10% profit each when I can build 10 large boats per year for 20-30% profit. I have no idea what the margins are on boats I'm just throwing numbers as an example. Its really simple business practice. Less work, less people to deal with, less staff ect, Same profit at the end of the day. I'm sure after 08 all the manufacturers stepped back and rethought their business model

That dealer discount .

That’s a healthy profit margin.

 

[Devilman]

View attachment 1207814

I like the delivery note... A.S.A.P.

 

[FreeBird236]

I've had a long running bias, I don't consider their products bad, but I blame Mercury Marine more than anyone for todays boat prices. One year you could buy a boat for fifty thousand, a couple years later their engine and outdrive alone was fifty thousand. They started it about 15 years ago and now every manufacture has jumped on the bandwagon.

 

[Bpracing1127]

I've had a long running bias, I don't consider their products bad, but I blame Mercury Marine more than anyone for todays boat prices. One year you could buy a boat for fifty thousand, a couple years later their engine and outdrive alone was fifty thousand. They started it about 15 years ago and now every manufacture has jumped on the bandwagon.

Yep they didn’t help. All in all the cost of doing business in the southwest is extremely high. Think about so cal. You need a guy to rig the boat. Well he has to be able to afford to live in so cal. So you need to pay him a decent wage. Then add taxes, regulations insurance ect. Cost are way up.

Someone else said it but why build 100 boats for 10 mil in profit when you can “downsize “ and operation with less risk and build 10 boats with 10 mil in profit. Using fake #’s. But same point.

What I don’t get is the boat builders are not all high end. They are “river” guys like us. I’m surprised that they havnt catered to us “river” guys in years. Kinda odd money took over at some point that’s for sure

 

[spectras only]

while it isn't a small boat, it's affordable. It's a rare model 31,4'Mirage, big brother to my 25'7 .
I'd jump on it if didn't already have the affordable model myself. Only a handful were made. Owner Kyle is the administrator on the Mirage Boat owners website on Facebook

1998 Mirage 314sz (31'4") Twin Mercury Marine 502mpi MAG engines w/ Bravo 1 Stern Drives (approx. 875 hours) Top Speed is around 70. Have seen best of 72 on GPS. Tri-axle Eagle Trailer Converted to Electric Over Hydraulic (EOH) brakes and all 3 axles in 2021 Captains Call Exhaust Full Hydraulic Steering Drive Tie Bar Drive Showers Stainless Steel Props Trim Tabs Shore Power Battery Charger 4 Batteries Dual Simrad Go9 units at the dash JL Audio Media Master Stereo System 2 Wired Remotes w. screens 4 JL speakers, 2 JL subs, and amp for cockpit 2 JL speakers and amp for swim platform area Ship to Shore VHF Radio Custom Sunbrella Bimini Top and Camper Enclosure Custom Sunbrella Cockpit Cover Custom SoftTouch Travel Cover Newer Cockpit Upholstery New Infinity LWV Flooring in Cockpit New GatorStep Flooring for Swim Platform and Cockpit Steps (not shown) New Headliner in Cabin New Cabin Upholstery (in progress currently) Custom Memory Foam Mattress in Cabin (bed is about 6' long) Asking $49,900 Call/Text/Message with any questions Kyle [hidden information]

 

[farmo83]

One thing that has not been discussed is profit per boat. In my head thats what I would consider. Why build 20-30 small, medium boats per year for 10% profit each when I can build 10 large boats per year for 20-30% profit. I have no idea what the margins are on boats I'm just throwing numbers as an example. Its really simple business practice. Less work, less people to deal with, less staff ect, Same profit at the end of the day. I'm sure after 08 all the manufacturers stepped back and rethought their business model

I would think the profit margins on boats would be pretty high. 10 boats is a lot to put a business on.

 

[JLG614]

I would think the profit margins on boats would be pretty high. 10 boats is a lot to put a business on.

You would think so but who knows. I have alot more knowledge when it comes to sand cars and even when a new sand car from funco or tatum is $250k plus it still doesn't pencil out to that big of a profit. 50k motor, 35k trans, 20k in motec and electronics, 15k in paint, 5k in seats, 10k in shocks, plus all the other odds and ends that add up fast, hubs alone are 15k. Then add in the metal for the car, paying someone to cut it all if you don't do it in house, Labor for someone to weld it together, Then you have building over head, insurance, the list goes on. These are amazing sports and hobbies I just don't get how these companies can get it done and still make a healthy profit at the end of the day

 

[Gelcoater]

I've had a long running bias, I don't consider their products bad, but I blame Mercury Marine more than anyone for todays boat prices. One year you could buy a boat for fifty thousand, a couple years later their engine and outdrive alone was fifty thousand. They started it about 15 years ago and now every manufacture has jumped on the bandwagon.

It’s been at least 15, maybe 20 years ago a wise man told me
“If you don’t sell the boat for at least 3 times the cost of the drivetrain, you didn’t make any money”

That ratio may have changed to 4x by now?

 

[traquer]

Might not go down well with some here, but why doesn't someone build custom boats overseas and just add power and some final rigging here? With inflation and material costs that's the only viable option I see now for the small performance boat market.

 

[traquer]

It’s been at least 15, maybe 20 years ago a wise man told me
“If you don’t sell the boat for at least 3 times the cost of the drivetrain, you didn’t make any money”

That ratio may have changed to 4x by now?

This is the real answer. Boats are simpler than cars, besides the drivetrain the rest on boats is all custom stuff that can be fabbed or sourced as cheap or as expensive as you want.

 

[SOCALCRICKETT]

This is the real answer. Boats are simpler than cars, besides the drivetrain the rest on boats is all custom stuff that can be fabbed or sourced as cheap or as expensive as you want.

Isn't that what thrasher boats (the center console company) is doing?

 

[hallett21]

You would think so but who knows. I have alot more knowledge when it comes to sand cars and even when a new sand car from funco or tatum is $250k plus it still doesn't pencil out to that big of a profit. 50k motor, 35k trans, 20k in motec and electronics, 15k in paint, 5k in seats, 10k in shocks, plus all the other odds and ends that add up fast, hubs alone are 15k. Then add in the metal for the car, paying someone to cut it all if you don't do it in house, Labor for someone to weld it together, Then you have building over head, insurance, the list goes on. These are amazing sports and hobbies I just don't get how these companies can get it done and still make a healthy profit at the end of the day

.

The motor, trans, paint etc all has a 10-20% margin built in.

Everyone says it’s not but it is lol.

Not directed at you but.

Current boat pricing is fair as far as I’m concerned. They are now being run as businesses and not robbing Peter to pay Paul.

People want to compare garage builds to Nordic or Eliminator lol. The amount of money to exists as a legitimate business is staggering to most. So why risk 500k-1million a year for no profit?

The bigger issue is that this industry is built up with back room favors and buddy deals. That’s the advertising etc. But eventually you need to make big dollar sales to keep everything going.


10 person payroll, shop space, material overhead, etc. it all adds up fast.

 

[JLG614]

Might not go down well with some here, but why doesn't someone build custom boats overseas and just add power and some final rigging here? With inflation and material costs that's the only viable option I see now for the small performance boat market.

Thats what Dale Dondel (Racer Engineering) Was doing with Victory powerboats. He would get the blank hull and finish them here. They are badass boats and the fit and finish looked nice but something happened with that deal and he's no longer building the victory. I think his new boat is Racer X boats or something like that

 

[ltbaney1]

not boat related but still shocking the prices. here is the build sheet from Don Long for the Baney - Prudhomme car that became the shelby super snake. this would have

the Shelby super snake car. $900 for a top fuel chassis

 

[Fabhouse]

In 1989 a 1 ton Chevy extended cab was just shy of 18k
“ “ “ hallett vector loaded w trailer was right about 38k

add about 300% to both and that’s pretty much same costs of today on either

I remember clearly my dad writing an 18500.00 check for a 1989 extended cab dually-out the door. Red w/ gray cloth. The next week it was lowered on Alcoas with a shell. Pretty sure I have a photo-i'll go look.

 

[Fabhouse]

 

[NicPaus]

View attachment 1207978

My first real truck looked exactly like that but blue. 89. I added everything Edelbrock made for it including the multi port injection kit. There is one on my block now the same color.

 

[Kenboat]

Guys check out J-Kraft ski boats in Canada. They make a 21 ft outboard powered ski boat with hand laid balsa coring. I priced one up with 250 Yamaha SVO with trailer at about 105K. S

 

[C-Ya]

After reading this thread…….. The Freedom Boat Club is beginning to sound like it’s almost FREE.

For $400 per month. No tow vehicle, No storage bill, No boat maintenance bill. No boat payment. I’d ad in no headaches, but the FBC reservation system can be a pain in the ass. Lol

 

[riverrat707]

February 1993 Hot Boat