We're having a property line dispute

[2FORCEFULL]

That is another type of easement that we dealt with for years on a property in apple Valley. Been around forever.

The one I posted is something I just learned and very frustrating. Might only be a CA thing as it is such bullshit. But having a friend just go through it and Me being faced with the same issue was a eye opener. If they use your land for 5 years or more they have prescriptive easement rights to it. Any purchase of property from here on out I will check every fence line location.

I just went through this on the nelson property....

 

[MSum661]

They can not take it. But they can use it and not be stopped in CA. I lost a lot of sleep over this earlier this year. And learned something new. If in CA you need to say no or stop them from using your land or they gain rights to it.

This won't go out five years as adverse possession since the OP is already on the issue now.
Should be interesting to see what his lawyer says.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

again.... there is not enough info to reply an answer.... and like i said,.. can be figured out real easy....

 

[sprintcvx]

As far we can tell so far no permits were pulled on this current remodel. We live in a pretty rural area and most likely there wasn't any permits for the garage either when it was built 30+ years ago. We have talked with flipper many times and have always been friendly with her. The flipper had a survey done and we we're told we could be present when that happened but we never told. She very vague about where the survey marks where and we never received a report. All of this was just dropped in our lap a week ago so we're still trying to get shit figured out.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

This won't go out five years as adverse possession since the OP is already on the issue now.
Should be interesting to see what his lawyer says.

If he walks in a lawers office and gets an answer..... other than you need to get the property surveyed first to see whats going on....

 

[MSum661]

If he walks in a lawers office and gets an answer..... other than you need to get the property surveyed first to see whats going on....

The property was surveyed. Read what the OP has been saying.

 

[NicPaus]

Without permits the flipper should be ready to work with you on this. She might not of known how far off it was until the survey. That's why she offered to buy the land from you in question. Sounds like the ball is in your court. Keep us updated.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

As far we can tell so far no permits were pulled on this current remodel. We live in a pretty rural area and most likely there wasn't any permits for the garage either when it was built 30+ years ago. We have talked with flipper many times and have always been friendly with her. The flipper had a survey done and we we're told we could be present when that happened but we never told. She very vague about where the survey marks where and we never received a report. All of this was just dropped in our lap a week ago so we're still trying to get shit figured out.

if you can find out the surveyers name... they can give you a plot plan that shows where the pins are.... also... when they do it they will put stakes and feathers... if you don't see them.... they never got it surveyed

 

[NicPaus]

This won't go out five years as adverse possession since the OP is already on the issue now.
Should be interesting to see what his lawyer says.

Yeah. Not sure how they could prove the previous owners used Hs property for the 3 years prior. 7 year easementmentionedin WA. Unless the driveway is on satellite images and on His property.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

The property was surveyed. Read what the OP has been saying.

he said, she said, and now you are saying????


you never answered my land question???

 

[2FORCEFULL]

I have many talents,.. but the best one is to know what i'm talking about...

heres a land question for you..

the land owner allows a horse, a deer, and a cow to Graise in his lot...
the cow shits in pies, the deer shits berrys, and the horse in clumps....how come???

so no answers here????

 

[MPHSystems]

. just because you put up a fence, it doesn't change the property line...

Actually, it can depending on jurisdiction and if property changes hands or time in place.

 

[MSum661]

Yeah. Not sure how they could prove the previous owners used Hs property for the 3 years prior. 7 year easementmentionedin WA. Unless the driveway is on satellite images and on His property.

Yup, and for a court to grant a prescriptive easement they would need to prove a start date of possession. Otherwsie everybody would do it.

 

[evantwheeler]

That is another type of easement that we dealt with for years on a property in apple Valley. Been around forever.

The one I posted is something I just learned and very frustrating. Might only be a CA thing as it is such bullshit. But having a friend just go through it and Me being faced with the same issue was a eye opener. If they use your land for 5 years or more they have prescriptive easement rights to it. Any purchase of property from here on out I will check every fence line location.

After you posted the terminology about prescriptive easement, it rang a bell. That's the term my title company used to assure me that my fence could stay where it is, regardless of what any future owner wanted to do about it. Fence had existed 3' onto neighbors property for 30+ years with no disputes.

I read up on the prescriptive easement laws of CA since you posted, and its pretty scary really as a property owner. Any squatter could lay claim to your land. Any idea if making your property a legal "homestead" does anything to protect you more from crap like this?

 

[DC-88]

Yup, and for a court to grant a prescriptive easement they would need to prove a start date of possession. Otherwsie everybody would do it.

From my experiences Access + Ingress+ egress really factor into if a prescriptive easement sticks or not. If those can be proven for 7 years then it is an issue for sure. As far as fences, walls, foliage etc we cut that stuff out of the way on almost everything I build once the corners are re marked. The old surveyor's chain being replaced by the total station / gps doesn't seem to give the right to keep boundaries in the wrong place in most cases, at least where we work in Ca.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Why should OP bear any costs in this fiasco? He certainly should NOT pay for any efforts of moving the fence if it is indeed over the property line on his property. Flipper chose to build the fence, for his benefit and property improvements. This is all on the flipper.

If OP pays for a survey, finds dipshit flipper built fence on OP's property, can OP take flipper to small claims court for the cost of the survey?

it's a simple code violation, and he has to take it down...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

The property was surveyed. Read what the OP has been saying.

so when did I think, become it was????

and still didn't answer my land question...

heres a land question for you..

the land owner allows a horse, a deer, and a cow to Graise in his lot...
the cow shits in pies, the deer shits berrys, and the horse in clumps....how come???

 

[NicPaus]

From my experiences Access + Ingress+ egress really factor into if a prescriptive easement sticks or not. If those can be proven for 7 years then it is an issue for sure. As far as fences, walls, foliage etc we cut that stuff out of the way on almost everything I build once the corners are re marked. The old surveyor's chain being replaced by the total station / gps doesn't seem to give the right to keep boundaries in the wrong place in most cases, at least where we work in Ca.

From what I learned you just do it don't ask. Let them try and prove it. That's why I tore out the fence and built the wall. Let them lawyer up. My friend asked the neighbor. They lawyered up immediately and he had to hire a lawyer. Neighbor had some plants on his property he had been watering for years. It's a tricky one. But from what l learned you get survey first. Mention Nothing to the neighbors. So they can't get pictures or a lawyer. Scrape your land of anything and build a wall or fence where the survey shows.

 

[NicPaus]

Yup, and for a court to grant a prescriptive easement they would need to prove a start date of possession. Otherwsie everybody would do it.

In my situation the neighbor told me he recently built the fence. When they were gone that fence ands it footing was removed in 5 minutes with my skidsteer. I had the new temporary posts on property line before he returned. He tried claiming the fence was the lot line as it was there for 40 years. I replied you told me you just built the fence? Neighbor intervened and he backed off on getting a lawyer. Now he got a free block wall. And is asking when I will build the wall on the rest of property line. Free walls must be nice.

 

[pronstar]

In my situation the neighbor told me he recently built the fence. When they were gone that fence ands it footing was removed in 5 minutes with my skidsteer. I had the new temporary posts on property line before he returned. He tried claiming the fence was the lot line as it was there for 40 years. I replied you told me you just built the fence? Neighbor intervened and he backed off on getting a lawyer. Now he got a free block wall. And is asking when I will build the wall on the rest of property line. Free walls must be nice.

My neighbor down the street put a fence 1’ on his property so the neighbors couldn’t do anything but look at it.

He told them “if it bothers you, I left you room to build your own fence so you don’t have to look at mine”

His neighbor across the street complained that the fence ruined her view…problem is, her view was his backyard.

 

[HCP3]

It seems like there are at least three property line disputes going on in this thread.

 

[stephenkatsea]

are you sure thats not a P.U.E. area????

also,... why did you marry the lots???? IMO it devalued the property... all you did was create a bunch of unwanted zone laws...


my property on nelson was this way,.. I made the seller change it back before I would buy it, it also had property line disputes.... I handled it all my self,... and now when I go there we sit and drink cold beers with the neighbor...

Your P.U.E. comment is spot on. The flag lot which adjoins our RV garage lot is a 3 sided piece of property, with a long drive way running from that triangle and out to the street. The previous owner, the man from whom we purchased our RV garage lot, wanted me to also buy that flag lot. I really wasn't interested. But, when I found that triangular shaped lot had P.U.E on all 3 sides, I for sure didn't want it. The rear of our both of our lots have P.U.E. The rear of our main lot has a previously built, per P.U.E. specs, large retaining wall. The rear of our adjoining RV garage lot was excavated with the 2:1 slope, also per P.U.E. specs. Attached is a drawing of the flag lot. The slope

of our RV garage lot abuts the 151' side of the flag lot.

 

[ChumpChange]

so no answers here????

I’m waiting for the answer. Just post it.

 

[nameisbond]

I'd get a lawyer. Look up adverse possession and your state's laws.

 

[SBMech]

Jesus. It's GRAZE you fucking dumb fuck.

Stop making mechanics look stupid.

And, btw, RDP celebrity or not, you are being a dick.

 

[HCP3]

I’m waiting for the answer. Just post it.

Basically it means you can't talk about the topic "if you don't know shit."

 

[2FORCEFULL]

I’m waiting for the answer. Just post it.

looks like he don't know shit.... and wants to be on the internet quoting R e laws... and real good at spell check...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Jesus. It's GRAZE you fucking dumb fuck.

Stop making mechanics look stupid.

And, btw, RDP celebrity or not, you are being a dick.

LOL... I own my shop, i own the building and all the equipment and inventory free and clear, in 40 years I have yet to have to take a spelling test..... I fuck every chance i get.... so i'm a fucking dumb fuck that can't spell.... is that good or bad???

 

[SBMech]

LOL... I own my shop, i own the building and all the equipment and inventory free and clear, in 40 years I have yet to have to take a spelling test..... I fuck every chance i get.... so i'm a fucking dumb fuck that can't spell.... is that good or bad???

Who gives a fuck? How does that make you know shit about shinola? You don't have to be a dick while attempting to help give advice.

 

[angiebaby]

The property was surveyed. Read what the OP has been saying.

Allegedly. OP has not seen a survey report. There are no markers and the flipper gives vague responses.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Who gives a fuck? How does that make you know shit about shinola? You don't have to be a dick while attempting to help give advice.

just being funny,.. go get laid and have a beer.... happy holidays... all I'm saying if I know the problem,... I can figure out what to do, or if you can do anything,... all with out paying a lawyer... it;s kinda like , my motors making a noise, what should i do??? there's a wealth of knolage on this board.... but first you have to know the problem to fix it...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Jesus. It's GRAZE you fucking dumb fuck.

Stop making mechanics look stupid.

And, btw, RDP celebrity or not, you are being a dick.

calling people names on the internet is very childish.... so no cupcakes for you....

 

[SBMech]

calling people names on the internet is very childish.... so no cupcakes for you....

Yes I was a few cups in last night when I typed that haha!

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Yes I was a few cups in last night when I typed that haha!

LOL.... good to hear alls good....

 

[Go-Fly]

Our house is just over 1 acre of propriety that we bought over 30 years ago. Owner neighbor died a few years back and the family sold it to a flipper for $345k. The flipper just put a cubic ton of money into a remodel, including a ton of landscaping and a new fence, that we come to find out, it's all on our propriety. The flipper is very vague about the survey and there is no "stake" because of the new asphalt and wants to know if we want - #1 They pay us a little portion then we adjust the boundary line to match the new fence #2 - Remove the fence and adjust the boundary line to match the new survey #3 - Leave the fence and just let the new owners know. It's 4-6K sq ft and would take our property below the acre line. Entrance to their property is basically our property and the line is 10 feet from the corner of their garage( there's 35 ft. set backs). There has been more than one sub upset; stories within themselves. Just listed for $2.5 MIL. Enough red flags have been raised for us to wonder - What other options do we have and what should our next steps be to protect our property?
I know there's quite a few RE people on this board and wondering what our options were.

So, how did this turn out?

 

[4Waters]

So, how did this turn out?

X2

 

[DLC]

X 3
@sprintcvx

 

[CLdrinker]

I know of a company that uses the shit out of prescriptive rights.

I also know about a thing called land vision...
And someone that has access to it.

 

[Go-Fly]

X4 I just wanted to get back in line.

 

[rivermobster]

X4 I just wanted to get back in line.

+1

 

[sprintcvx]

Latest Update: Met with lawyer, who rang the flipper and left a message that he represents us and we would like a copy of the survey to determine which course of action works best for us. She didn't respond to our lawyer, but has been texting and ringing my wife, who answered this Friday, and met with her again and took a picture of the "draft survey" on her phone with our fence sketched in. "No stakes because of the recent paving" and wants to know if we want to do a BLA so "we" can save money; with the idea she wouldn't need to pay for the survey she had done, or I guess almost done. She says she stated on the listing that the boundary line is currently being looked at (confirmed by our realtor friend) and, on another note, the HOA is harassing her because she fenced off the end of the HOA ROW (DOH!). At the beginning of the conversation, she had a couple of lawyers on retainer - business you know, and at the end of the conversation, she hired a lawyer for this and we should be receiving a letter by mail, and never mentioned the voice mail from our attorney. My wife told her she's going to compare and do some area calculations based upon the draft/picture measurements to the GIS satellite layer from the County and thanked her for the information. The longer the house is on the market, the more she may pay for access to her garage, no?

 

[Go-Fly]

Latest Update: Met with lawyer, who rang the flipper and left a message that he represents us and we would like a copy of the survey to determine which course of action works best for us. She didn't respond to our lawyer, but has been texting and ringing my wife, who answered this Friday, and met with her again and took a picture of the "draft survey" on her phone with our fence sketched in. "No stakes because of the recent paving" and wants to know if we want to do a BLA so "we" can save money; with the idea she wouldn't need to pay for the survey she had done, or I guess almost done. She says she stated on the listing that the boundary line is currently being looked at (confirmed by our realtor friend) and, on another note, the HOA is harassing her because she fenced off the end of the HOA ROW (DOH!). At the beginning of the conversation, she had a couple of lawyers on retainer - business you know, and at the end of the conversation, she hired a lawyer for this and we should be receiving a letter by mail, and never mentioned the voice mail from our attorney. My wife told her she's going to compare and do some area calculations based upon the draft/picture measurements to the GIS satellite layer from the County and thanked her for the information. The longer the house is on the market, the more she may pay for access to her garage, no?

Do a BLA to maintain the same square footage of your lot, let her move the fence, pay off your attorney and have a Merry Christmas.

 

[Ace in the Hole]

Latest Update: Met with lawyer, who rang the flipper and left a message that he represents us and we would like a copy of the survey to determine which course of action works best for us. She didn't respond to our lawyer, but has been texting and ringing my wife, who answered this Friday, and met with her again and took a picture of the "draft survey" on her phone with our fence sketched in. "No stakes because of the recent paving" and wants to know if we want to do a BLA so "we" can save money; with the idea she wouldn't need to pay for the survey she had done, or I guess almost done. She says she stated on the listing that the boundary line is currently being looked at (confirmed by our realtor friend) and, on another note, the HOA is harassing her because she fenced off the end of the HOA ROW (DOH!). At the beginning of the conversation, she had a couple of lawyers on retainer - business you know, and at the end of the conversation, she hired a lawyer for this and we should be receiving a letter by mail, and never mentioned the voice mail from our attorney. My wife told her she's going to compare and do some area calculations based upon the draft/picture measurements to the GIS satellite layer from the County and thanked her for the information. The longer the house is on the market, the more she may pay for access to her garage, no?

You guys shouldn't be speaking with her at all....thats the attorney's job. Hi mr homeowner, oh hi ms flipper...you need to call my attorney regarding this, not my wife. Be a dick if they don't get the message. Also make sure your Atty knows about that call.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

so,.... for those reading this,... some ol timer advise and things to look for when buying,... and things that can be done now...first... buying.... never buy re that has stuff added after the oG contractor w/o a permit history... to get the permit they have to do a plot placement showing set backs...and a whole lot more now... this situation is real easy...contact the listing agent...disclose the dispute... then they have to disclose it to any potential buyer.... request a permit history....sounds like the garage was done without a permit,... but if it was there would be a variance permit on record...... with the plot plan survey, there's monuments to get a close idea of property line....and adding a garage there would have to be a placement survey showing set backs... you can't get the permit without.... 4-6k sq ft????? thats huge....

as for this deal, it's just too vague of a discription,... I'd start with a demand letter to have them remove the fence, or you will on their dime... and cc the letter to the RE agent.... re agents do permit history all the time.... and must disclose if there are buildings with no permits if they know... this is why you have to do spuds on a sell...

but....first you have to know what you know to be true..

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Latest Update: Met with lawyer, who rang the flipper and left a message that he represents us and we would like a copy of the survey to determine which course of action works best for us. She didn't respond to our lawyer, but has been texting and ringing my wife, who answered this Friday, and met with her again and took a picture of the "draft survey" on her phone with our fence sketched in. "No stakes because of the recent paving" and wants to know if we want to do a BLA so "we" can save money; with the idea she wouldn't need to pay for the survey she had done, or I guess almost done. She says she stated on the listing that the boundary line is currently being looked at (confirmed by our realtor friend) and, on another note, the HOA is harassing her because she fenced off the end of the HOA ROW (DOH!). At the beginning of the conversation, she had a couple of lawyers on retainer - business you know, and at the end of the conversation, she hired a lawyer for this and we should be receiving a letter by mail, and never mentioned the voice mail from our attorney. My wife told her she's going to compare and do some area calculations based upon the draft/picture measurements to the GIS satellite layer from the County and thanked her for the information. The longer the house is on the market, the more she may pay for access to her garage, no?

another easy thing to do,...file a complaint with code enforcement,.. state that the garage is in the set back and now they put a fence on your property... the code enforcement will pull permit history right then... and let you know if it was done with a permit,.. as soon as you find the propery line and that the fence is on yours,... hire some guys from walk and don't walk and remove it... I had this same thing happen on my last build... of course I knew for sure where the line was so I hooked a chain to the fence and yanked it out...

when you put up a fence on someone elses property,.. you have to have a notarized signed permission form thats turned into the building permit dept....


agaain... all this can be handled w/o a lawyer..... in fact ... I would not have responded to the attorney either if it was me who put up the fence... I have a special file for letters from attorneys....