Vegas tragedy, how do we stop the violence?????

[was thatguy]

There seems to be no indication that this fuck showed any warning signs of being mentally unstable.
Yeah, crazy bastards do crazy stuff...but as crazy and insane as his act was, the person himself did not fit that bill before his killing spree.
IMO, This is an act of war by a committed individual who reached the point, in his mind, to do what he did.
I think he figured he would accomplish 3 things.
Attack what he considered a enemy rich crowd, martyr himself to motivate others in his cause to take action, and put his enemy on the defensive as far as gun control and pressure on Trump.
I think he took it as seriously as an Isis or al-qaeda terrorist takes their suicide missions.

I think that this is where our Country is now. We are so devided and full of anger and hate at the "other side" that politically based internal terrorism is becoming a reality.

A 64 year old dude likely doesn't play many video games.
All of this talk about mental health and video games is hokum in this case.

This dude was politically motivated and antifa will strike again with "lone wolf" crazy's going off.
The media won't touch it. They most DEFINITELY have a hand in fostering this shit.
Mocking the truth has been the MO of lefty fucks for a long time now. And this thread demonstrates that it's still their go to move

This is all just my opinion, but I think it's more right than wrong.

 

[copterzach]

Luckily I picked up my .22,.30, and .40 caliber suppressors last week.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Luckily I picked up my .22,.30, and .40 caliber suppressors last week.

Criminal!

 

[copterzach]

Criminal!

Yup. Only took 3 months to get approved.

 

[New to boating]

Yeah, I TOTALLY disagree. Those countries don't have it "figured out". They live in constant fear and intimidation. Searching everybody everytime they walk into a building or searching every car everytime they go into a parking structure...... sounds more like a prison and less of a society that's doing well.

I heave heard that argument "we are not going to live in fear"..... its a lame argument and living in fear is not the sense you get when you are there (other, smarter countries) - they don't live in fear at all......they live in the "real world" instead of the world where everyone forms a prayer circle, sings "Kumbaya" and "hopes for the best"........ the implimentation of those security measures does not make you scared or nervous, quite the contrary - it make you more at ease that "some is thinking about what might happen and doing something about it".

 

[buck35]

I just have to wonder if this professional gambler , lost a fortune in vegas and wanted to make the city pay for it . I wonder if that suite he was in was comped so he could make another donation. Sick bastard at any rate, and we may never know.

 

[SBMech]

There is nothing you can do to stop these events. If someone is intent on mass destruction like this they can always find a way.

Sad to say that it's actually a good thing he was so simple in his attack, a loaded semi barreling through the center or a few vest bombers could have done far more damage to hundreds or thousands more people.

I believe that we are about to regress backwards to a certain extent, when all states allow CC and open carry, along with simple adjustments like recognizing possible situations or scenarios like these and taking proper steps to protect the public.

Pro-active going forward, yes having "airport" type security is a PITA, but I, for one, would certainly suffer through if it only meant 1 life was saved from a tragic event like this.

The reality is that there are many people who are simply unaware of how dangerous the real world is. Do they even teach first aid and crisis awareness in schools anymore?

The dumbing down of society is a real problem. The fact that there is "social media" that has nothing social about it, why have a block party when you can chat with everyone on douchebook?

Why save someone's life when you can film them dying and get "viral"?

It starts at home, with the people you love and trust, encourage your friends, family to reach out and BBQ more, go to the lake more, hit up the internet less.

How many of us live next door to neighbors you don't even know? We need to become community driven again, more real life social, less internet.

The Irony is palpable as I type this....:rolleyes

 

[Old Texan]

how many shooting style games are sold each year? Its absolutely staging. There is a connection.

No idea, for the most part I don't think it is really an issue for most. But it only takes one kid to play that game normalize it and execute. You can even run people over in the streets etc on them.

Video games? How about shooting galleries?

Hunting? I mean the target is a living animal.

How about paintball games, where a person is actually the target?

Human are complex, intelligent creatures, I am pretty sure they know the difference.

Humans have also been killing each other for one reason or another since the beginning of time.

I was raised in a time and place where close to every household had a gun or guns of some sort. Mostly hunting weapons but plenty of hand guns and military weapons. When in gradeschool we played cowboys and indians, cops and robbers, and war. At home and at school. We learned to play dead and we learned how to fake killing. I recall of not one kid that ever later became a mass murderer or even a single murder.

What we all did know was gun safety and how real weapons worked and the respect they needed to treated with in everyday life. We also knew the value of human life and could distinguish between reality and fantasy. So what has changed outside of fear and trying to keep even play weapons at a minimum?

The dorm I lived in my freshman year of college had numerous shotguns and large and small caliber hunting rifles. Never and incident. Now no guns and who knows the number of gun incidents. So what has changed?

I doubt it's video games. But something maddening has changed from what we see as regular violence on campuses around the nation.

And those who talk about us being behind in hotel and overall security. Look back at many of these cities/nations and you will find they are in secure mode due to open violence in their nations. London has been a no gun zone for decades, yet they have had numerous violent acts involving bombs, knives and guns. Security helps but doesn't eliminate it.

Mass shootings, bombings, etc have been worldwide issues forever in spite of heavy security measures......We're back to square one from what I can see, we have to figure out the mental link and how societal changes have made violence seem to increase. Gonna be long and hard is all I know.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

I heave heard that argument "we are not going to live in fear"..... its a lame argument and living in fear is not the sense you get when you are there (other, smarter countries) - they don't live in fear at all......they live in the "real world" instead of the world where everyone forms a prayer circle, sings "Kumbaya" and "hopes for the best"........ the implimentation of those security measures does not make you scared or nervous, quite the contrary - it make you more at ease that "some is thinking about what might happen and doing something about it".

Really? You're telling me Isreal has no fear of a sudden missile attack from Palestine? They have no fears of their children being attacked and killed because they are Israeli and the region they live in? They are such a secure country they just make every able-bodied young adult enlist in the military?

Do you even have ANY clue where you are talking from?

 

[Cole Trickle]

There is no answer to events like this and they will continue......Everyone wants the hey LAM (some do it with there Instagram feed some do it by committing horrible acts)

Like previously mentioned bad people have been doing bad things since the beginning of time. Half of this country is mentally disturbed and there is no way in hell you are changing anything on that front with the amount of $$$ that the pharmaceutical companies are pumping into politics.

You know how many people in this country are on some sort of serious anti anxiety or anti depression drugs and they have never had anything bad happen to them aside from there dad not loving them enough. We are a generation of sissy's being raised by a generation of parents that were more worried about $$$$ and keeping up with the Jones's than actually being good parents. This has only gotten worse in the computer and cell phone era.

We are a busy ,successful group of like minded people that enjoy adventure and getting outdoors....Do you ever talk to people you know and wonder WTF they are doing in life. Seriously I/we all know people that have zero hobbies and do nothing but sit on there couch and surf the internet and post on facebook while being terribly unhappy......This is the society we live in.

Go home hug your kids and tell your wife you love her and enjoy life everyday to the fullest extent you can.

 

[FreeBird236]

We, as a society, have been completely desensitized thanks to the media.

And pitting us against one another for years with outright lies, but even worse lately.

Imo they're going to find a sore loser, we will see.
'

 

[530RL]

The gun law arguments are interesting to me with respect to a couple points.

People who argue that talking about gun regulation and gun safety issues after a mass shooting is insensitive and inapproriate, seems to me to be the equivalent of making the argument that we should not talk about aircraft regulation and aircraft safety issues after an airline crash. My, admittedly broken brain, kind of goes to the thought that those topics are exactly what we should talk about after a mass shooting or an airline crash. :headscratch:

Doesn't mean one should change the rules, but it certainly would point to the logic of having a rational discussion given new facts and circumstances.

With respect to the gun restriction argument, it would seem to me that those who argue the second amendment is what it is, and gun control advocates are wrong, we all should therefore be able to own post 86 as well as pre 86 fully automatic weapons, without background checks or tax stamps. After all, if gun control does not work, why would gun advocates, and especially LE argue that citizens should not have the ability to stop down at Walmart and pick up a couple fully automatic weapons and a couple spare M240 squad automatic weapons to place in the corner of the bedroom for self defense? After all, gun control does not work, who doesn't want an M240?

Which brings us to the corollary which is maybe "some" restrictions are rational and sensible. I suspect most LE I don't think we should all have at ready an M240 squad automatic weapon lying around and as such, some gun restrictions are probably appropriate even for the most die hard 2nd amendment supporters.

So the question remains, why not have a conversation about whether or not someone who just got out of a mental institution, or just got out of prison, should be able to go to a gun show and buy as many guns as they want without a background check of any kind in some states? Maybe the answer is no, gun control does not work, and so mentally ill people and felons should have easy access to weapons via gun shows because they can get them anyways via other routes, but it still might be a worthwhile conversation and it should probably be done around the tight confines of that specific situation.

Would it have stopped this situation, absolutely not. Would have it stopped other situations, who knows. But if it is logical to attempt to keep M240's out of every home that wants one, it is logical to close the gun show loophole? Who knows but it seems to me that people of good faith should at least be able to have a rational discussion about that sole topic period.

With respect to Israel, that is an interesting topic with respect to gun control.

Israel has some of the toughest gun ownership laws in the world and unless you are a little left of Nancy Pelosi, you are probably not going to like Israel's gun rights.

Israel limits gun ownership to security workers, people who transport valuables or explosives, residents of the West Bank, and hunters. People who don't fall into one of those categories cannot obtain a firearm permit. Moreover, Israel rejects 40 percent of firearm permit applicants, the highest rejection rate in the Western world. Both Switzerland and Israel require yearly (or more frequent) permit renewals to insure that the reasons are still applicable.

I am just guessing but I doubt the right is going to sign on with Israels gun restrictions?

 

[JD D05]

I was raised in a time and place where close to every household had a gun or guns of some sort. Mostly hunting weapons but plenty of hand guns and military weapons. When in gradeschool we played cowboys and indians, cops and robbers, and war. At home and at school. We learned to play dead and we learned how to fake killing. I recall of not one kid that ever later became a mass murderer or even a single murder.

What we all did know was gun safety and how real weapons worked and the respect they needed to treated with in everyday life. We also knew the value of human life and could distinguish between reality and fantasy. So what has changed outside of fear and trying to keep even play weapons at a minimum?

The dorm I lived in my freshman year of college had numerous shotguns and large and small caliber hunting rifles. Never and incident. Now no guns and who knows the number of gun incidents. So what has changed?

I doubt it's video games. But something maddening has changed from what we see as regular violence on campuses around the nation.

And those who talk about us being behind in hotel and overall security. Look back at many of these cities/nations and you will find they are in secure mode due to open violence in their nations. London has been a no gun zone for decades, yet they have had numerous violent acts involving bombs, knives and guns. Security helps but doesn't eliminate it.

Mass shootings, bombings, etc have been worldwide issues forever in spite of heavy security measures......We're back to square one from what I can see, we have to figure out the mental link and how societal changes have made violence seem to increase. Gonna be long and hard is all I know.

I grew up the same way in a tiny town called Baker Idaho. I am 34 and I just missed the video game stuff but my younger bro had all of them. I played them occasionally I even at the age of 12 thought it was a little fucked up playing grand theft etc. That is just what my personal thoughts were.

 

[530RL]

I grew up the same way in a tiny town called Baker Idaho. I am 34 and I just missed the video game stuff but my younger bro had all of them. I played them occasionally I even at the age of 12 thought it was a little fucked up playing grand theft etc. That is just what my personal thoughts were.

We had an awesome video game when we were kids..........

[video=youtube;fiShX2pTz9A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiShX2pTz9A[/video]

 

[mbrown2]

I would say this thread is a good example, within 7 posts we are calling each other names, somewhere in the first 25 someone will say we should kill all <fill in the blank> .

We also do a very good job as a society of dehumanizing those we disagree with.

I think this is exactly right and very well said.

It is not the media's fault or someone else's fault, it is simply what America has become today and what many American's and their leaders want as the fabric of our culture. A great deal of Americans want a cultural conflict in America, and then stand shocked and aghast at the natural outcomes and events.

When a country has 330 million people and the normal behavior to anyone whom with one disagrees is to attack them, attempt to publicly humiliate them and dehumanize them as Sleek stated, it is just a matter of time before more and more people simply engage in revenge.

These but also disagree in that I do see the media has a part in the fix as well...on both sides they point the finger and blame and thus those that listen carry that message. If media outlets started spending more time dialoguing about unity and meeting in the middle, more about changing the tone/message then people would carry that message as well. Being better American's starts at home but also every person and company start to figure out how to be more respectful of our fellow man. That is not going to solve the issue with mentally unstable people but may help people from snapping.

 

[Tank]

The gun law arguments are interesting to me with respect to a couple points.

People who argue that talking about gun regulation and gun safety issues after a mass shooting is insensitive and inapproriate, seems to me to be the equivalent of making the argument that we should not talk about aircraft regulation and aircraft safety issues after an airline crash. My, admittedly broken brain, kind of goes to the thought that those topics are exactly what we should talk about after a mass shooting or an airline crash. :headscratch:

Doesn't mean one should change the rules, but it certainly would point to the logic of having a rational discussion given new facts and circumstances.

With respect to the gun restriction argument, it would seem to me that those who argue the second amendment is what it is, and gun control advocates are wrong, we all should be able to own post 86 as well as pre 86 fully automatic weapons, without background checks or tax stamps. After all, if gun control does not work, why would gun advocates, and especially LE argue that citizens should not have the ability to stop down at Walmart and pick up a couple fully automatic weapons and a couple spare M240 squad automatic weapons to place in the corner of the bedroom for self defense? After all, gun control does not work, who doesn't want an M240?

Which brings us to the corollary which is maybe "some" restrictions are rational and sensible. I suspect most LE I don't think we should all have at ready an M240 squad automatic weapon lying around and as such, some gun restrictions are probably appropriate even for the most die hard 2nd amendment supporters.

So the question remains, why not have a conversation about whether or not someone who just got out of a mental institution, or just got out of prison, should be able to go to a gun show and buy as many guns as they want without a background check of any kind in some states? Maybe the answer is no, gun control does not work, and so mentally ill people and felons should have easy access to weapons via gun shows because they can get them anyways via other routes, but it still might be a worthwhile conversation and it should probably be done around the tight confines of that specific situation.

Would it have stopped this situation, absolutely not. Would have it stopped other situations, who knows. But if it is logical to attempt to keep M240's out of every home that wants one, it is logical to close the gun show loophole? Who knows but it seems to me that people of good faith should at least be able to have a rational discussion about that sole topic period.

With respect to Israel, that is an interesting topic with respect to gun control.

Israel has some of the toughest gun ownership laws in the world and unless you are a little left of Nancy Pelosi, you are probably not going to like Israel's gun rights.

Israel limits gun ownership to security workers, people who transport valuables or explosives, residents of the West Bank, and hunters. People who don't fall into one of those categories cannot obtain a firearm permit. Moreover, Israel rejects 40 percent of firearm permit applicants, the highest rejection rate in the Western world. Both Switzerland and Israel require yearly (or more frequent) permit renewals to insure that the reasons are still applicable.

I am just guessing but I doubt the right is going to sign on with Israels gun restrictions?

Once you refuse to even attempt to understand "the other sides" viewpoint, there is no discussion. That's where our political parties are at on gun regulations and unfortunately most other topics. So we, the citizens of the US suffer because of BOTH parties bullheadedness, egos and lack of willingness to work together.

I personally agree with you, certain regulations are necessary. Your example of an M240 is prime example. However, in THIS situation, gun control is irrelevant. Hillary posting non-sense about silencers and pathetic dip shits like jimmy kimmel crying about gun control isn't going to change this event and it isn't going to stop someone from mass killing in the future. People like that are using these tragedies to further their political agenda...Nothing more. That is the difference I believe.

 

[was thatguy]

We had an awesome video game when we were kids..........

[video=youtube;fiShX2pTz9A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiShX2pTz9A[/video]

I loved Pong! Later on when the drag racing game came out I held the official record for a time. Controller had one button and a joystick...
A buddy and me were the "Galaga" champions at the local bar...:thumbsup:thumbsup

 

[New to boating]

Really? You're telling me Isreal has no fear of a sudden missile attack from Palestine? They have no fears of their children being attacked and killed because they are Israeli and the region they live in? They are such a secure country they just make every able-bodied young adult enlist in the military?

Do you even have ANY clue where you are talking from?

Easy Cowboy.... there is no reference to a "Missile Attack" anywhere in my post - my post refers to the actual event that took place and the fact set (as it known at this time) about this particular event. You comments would be a lot more effective if you could actually read what is written and respond to the content at hand....

And I can assure you, your not getting AN ARSENAL OF WEAPONS AND AMMO into a high rise hotel in the Philippines or Isreal - not gonna happen - your not getting past the parking lot security generally set up 1/4 mile from the property with Police that hvae fully automatic weapons and bomb sniffing dogs.... and your not getting into a shopping center either.....

 

[rivermobster]

I don't believe gun control works...

When I was a kid, I worked at a Lincoln-Mercury dealership. If there was no work, you found something to do to keep yourself busy.

Know what I did? I reloaded shot gun shells at my bench! I had my reloader in a locked cabinet and all my powder, ammo and shot stored under my bench. I could reload a case of shells in an hour, and since I was shooting 2-3 times a week back then, I reloaded shells every couple of weeks!

Nobody cared. Nobody complained. I could have been arraigning flowers for all that it mattered. We all just did what we wanted to do on our spare time!

Now can you imagine that happening today????????????

Fuck no. All of our Personal freedoms have been removed....

You can't to this. You can't do that. Somebody else might not like it!!!!!!!!!!!

And we wonder why everyone is walking around so pissed off all the time. Why people snap. Why mass killings are common occurrence these days. I don't recall this kina shit happing back in the 70's.

And what can we do about it?? Nothing. It's the way this country is going, and there is NO turning back. There was almost zero gun control when I was a kid, and there were a lot less shooting going on.

Those that preach tolerance, have zero tolerance for anything other than what They want to do. They sure as fuck wouldn't be tolerant of me reloading shells in the work place today, so I can't do that anymore. Everyone has to be in everyone else's business these days, when the fuck did this become the norm??

Control of any kind does not work. No one likes being controlled!!! (no matter what it is that you do) It is gonna get worse before it gets better, and it's because of all the control. Being controlled just pisses people off, I don't care who you are.

Enforce existing laws. Enforce the death penalty. Give the criminals something to fear, other than a slap on the wrist! Isn't it weird that that's how it was, back in the 70's as well???

Too bad there is no going back. "Forward the light brigade!"

 

[Flying_Lavey]

Easy Cowboy.... there is no reference to a "Missile Attack" anywhere in my post - my post refers to the actual event that took place and the fact set (as it known at this time) about this particular event. You comments would be a lot more effective if you could actually read what is written and respond to the content at hand....

And I can assure you, your not getting AN ARSENAL OF WEAPONS AND AMMO into a high rise hotel in the Philippines or Isreal - not gonna happen - your not getting past the parking lot security generally set up 1/4 mile from the property with Police that hvae fully automatic weapons and bomb sniffing dogs.... and your not getting into a shopping center either.....

Hey cowboy..... re-read what I said in response to what you said. I said those countries live in fear. You said they dont. I responded back with examples of relatively common events that happen in the "smarter" country of Isreal you used as an example. Everything I have wrote was a direct example and response to what you have said.

And if those countries are "smarter" as per your metrics, then North Korean must be the smartest fucking nation in the world! They have that shit on lock down!!

 

[DLC]

Every sick person that does something like this has their plan and no laws will inhibit the plan, so passing more laws about Guns or back ground checks / mental checks isn?t going to stop these.

I believe that society in general has played a big roll in these type of shootings here in America, we are a divided country, every body talks about unity and America needs to come together! However unity doesn?t get the laws passed, the wall built, Heath Care addressed, taxes reduced, there are so many special interest groups that want/need the division to get their agendas addressed.

Some issues are
Illegal immigration
NFL take a knee
Build a wall

I think our country is going down the wrong path and will take some time to get back on course. It will only get back on course if we the people rise up and make changes to our own lives.

 

[WhatExit?]

The politicians are going to have to make it look like they are actually earning their salaries. And we all know what means - even more restrictions on the sale of country music. Because that guy must have really hated country music.

 

[ArizonaKevin]

I have a couple comments on this subject.

As a CCW holder who carries his firearms all day, everyday, this situation has been messing with my head. In all of the previous mass shootings that have happened, I have felt as though that I would have a better than not chance of making it out alive because these fuckers don't expect return fire. (To be clear, I am not talking about being a hero or being Rambo, I am talking about effectively facilitating myself, and my families escape from the situation) But in this one, the sheer amount of helplessness that there was is mind boggling. I can pull off a 200yd suppressive fire shot with my pistol but it looks like this guys was probably 500+yd out. No way anyone who was getting shot at could have returned fire without endangering everyone else in the hotel. Going forward, I am adding another tourniquet and another pack of hemostatic clotting agent to my current ankle medical setup.

Now how to stop these things from happening. The root of all of this falls back to mental health issues, little known fact that we only have 10% of the people institutionalized today than we did 60 years ago and our population has more than doubled in that time. In the late 60s and early 70s, there was a push that the people who are crazy, are not crazy and just "free spirits and existentialists" and let many of them out. Now, our mental health problem, homeless problem, and senseless mass violence problem have steadily increased since the crazies got let out. This is one of the few areas in life where I feel like the Govt actually has useful role.

Now about what was being discussed with an M240. As a responsible armed citizen, I am accountable for every round that I fire during a defensive shooting situation, I can't pull that off with a 240 on full-fun-switch. Because of that, even if a 240 was attainable at Walmart (as eluded to earlier) I wouldn't buy it as a defensive firearm because it is useless. Squad Automatic Weapons are designed to lay down suppressive fire in the heat of battle, nothing more, nothing less, that is why many responsibly armed citizens (myself included) don't really mind that they are difficult to obtain. This may be unpopular, but we are lucky that he used fully auto instead of semi auto accurately aimed fire. If you watch videos you can see that many of the rounds were striking the ground and not people.

On the suppressor front, suppressors are designed to protect the hearing of those operating the firearm. The loudest part of any gunshot is the round breaking the sound barrier. If he had a can, would it have been quieter on the ground? Slightly but not much. If he did have a can on his gun, it would have melted the can, caused heat damage to his barrel and fire control group and caused his weapon to malfunction and be incredible inaccurate.

As normal people, what can we doing going forward to help our survivability factor in a situation like this? GET MEDICAL TRAINING!!! There have been conflicting reports of how long it took to bring the shooter down from 20 minutes up to 1hr. During that time, no medical personal would be allowed in the "kill zone" and it would have to be up to you to control your bleeding while you wait for more qualified people to show up. If you live in the PHX metro area, there is a training class being put on by Dark Angel Medical at Scottsdale Gun Club the first weekend of November. The owner of Dark Angel is a retired USAF PJ, a civilian paramedic, and civilian trauma nurse who puts on training classes all over the country on how to render self aid and to people around you if you are involved in a shooting/trauma type situation.

In closing, always remember Ben Franklin's quote, "He who chooses security over liberty deserves neither security nor liberty."

What do I know, I'm just a millennial :skull:skull:skull

 

[SBMech]

The gun law arguments are interesting to me with respect to a couple points.

People who argue that talking about gun regulation and gun safety issues after a mass shooting is insensitive and inapproriate, seems to me to be the equivalent of making the argument that we should not talk about aircraft regulation and aircraft safety issues after an airline crash. My, admittedly broken brain, kind of goes to the thought that those topics are exactly what we should talk about after a mass shooting or an airline crash. :headscratch:

Doesn't mean one should change the rules, but it certainly would point to the logic of having a rational discussion given new facts and circumstances.

With respect to the gun restriction argument, it would seem to me that those who argue the second amendment is what it is, and gun control advocates are wrong, we all should therefore be able to own post 86 as well as pre 86 fully automatic weapons, without background checks or tax stamps. After all, if gun control does not work, why would gun advocates, and especially LE argue that citizens should not have the ability to stop down at Walmart and pick up a couple fully automatic weapons and a couple spare M240 squad automatic weapons to place in the corner of the bedroom for self defense? After all, gun control does not work, who doesn't want an M240?

Which brings us to the corollary which is maybe "some" restrictions are rational and sensible. I suspect most LE I don't think we should all have at ready an M240 squad automatic weapon lying around and as such, some gun restrictions are probably appropriate even for the most die hard 2nd amendment supporters.

So the question remains, why not have a conversation about whether or not someone who just got out of a mental institution, or just got out of prison, should be able to go to a gun show and buy as many guns as they want without a background check of any kind in some states? Maybe the answer is no, gun control does not work, and so mentally ill people and felons should have easy access to weapons via gun shows because they can get them anyways via other routes, but it still might be a worthwhile conversation and it should probably be done around the tight confines of that specific situation.

Would it have stopped this situation, absolutely not. Would have it stopped other situations, who knows. But if it is logical to attempt to keep M240's out of every home that wants one, it is logical to close the gun show loophole? Who knows but it seems to me that people of good faith should at least be able to have a rational discussion about that sole topic period.

With respect to Israel, that is an interesting topic with respect to gun control.

Israel has some of the toughest gun ownership laws in the world and unless you are a little left of Nancy Pelosi, you are probably not going to like Israel's gun rights.

Israel limits gun ownership to security workers, people who transport valuables or explosives, residents of the West Bank, and hunters. People who don't fall into one of those categories cannot obtain a firearm permit. Moreover, Israel rejects 40 percent of firearm permit applicants, the highest rejection rate in the Western world. Both Switzerland and Israel require yearly (or more frequent) permit renewals to insure that the reasons are still applicable.

I am just guessing but I doubt the right is going to sign on with Israels gun restrictions?

There is no going back. There is no possible way that you can change where we are now.

Force everyone to register? Welcome to anarchy.

Force everyone to turn them in? Welcome to the destruction of America as we know it. No one will willingly surrender their weapons at this point, shit is too crazy.

A focus on regulations or altering the 2nd is absolutely worthless IMO. If anything if every family HAD a maw deuce or an M60 or M240 available in the garage or "laughably" like you said setup in the living room, I feel there would be FAR LESS crime period.

If you were more concerned about dying when you assaulted, raped, or robbed someone, I am fairly certain that there would be a rapid decline in criminal activity.

My point is that guns do not kill people. Crazy motherfuckers like this guy do. No gun control would have stopped him. He could have used a truck, or bombs, or hell even an RPG to light this off if he needed or wanted.

Guns keep everyone one safer IMO. Lets say that this scenario happened and the people next door were armed, would it have changed things? Quite possibly. American bravery cannot be counted out.

If that WAS a part of the scenario, when he only had seconds or a few minutes instead of the 15 or 20 he actually did have, maybe things would have been different.

Going forward, we shall see.

 

[Yellowboat]

trying to stop insane people,
from doing insane things is insane

 

[530RL]

Once you refuse to even attempt to understand "the other sides" viewpoint, there is no discussion. That's where our political parties are at on gun regulations and unfortunately most other topics. So we, the citizens of the US suffer because of BOTH parties bullheadedness, egos and lack of willingness to work together.

I personally agree with you, certain regulations are necessary. Your example of an M240 is prime example. However, in THIS situation, gun control is irrelevant. Hillary posting non-sense about silencers and pathetic dip shits like jimmy kimmel crying about gun control isn't going to change this event and it isn't going to stop someone from mass killing in the future. People like that are using these tragedies to further their political agenda...Nothing more. That is the difference I believe.

All fair points.

However I would like to point out how the absolute validity of your first paragraph, which I completely agree with, is then followed up in your second paragraph with exactly that which you point out.

The culture of America and the culture of our leadership today is when one disagrees with another person, as opposed to advocating a position, citizens resort to personal attacks, or attacks about an individuals' moral or ethical motives. Pathetic dip shits, people crying, snowflakes, homos, retards, poofters, libtards, imbeciles, jack booted thugs, Nazis, Racists.....pick the term either side uses to go right after the messenger as their very first and primary retort, as opposed to refuting the argument. It is not an attempt to have a discussion, it is an attempt to dehumanize, attack the integrity and belittle the other person as an individual as opposed to discuss the policies.

With respect to your second paragraph, I can assure you with great certainty that if you hooked up Mrs. Clinton, Mr. Kimmel, or even Ms. Giffords who engaged in the same conduct yesterday to a lie detector test, that they honestly believe that greater gun control will cut down on gun violence. They may be wrong but until people attempt to understand it is not a political agenda, but their honest belief, it will forever be impossible, as you pointed out in your first paragraph, to have a discussion.

This is not the fault of the media, it is not the fault of "political correctness" it is a result of the fact that our society has changed. We are doing it to each other, no one else is responsible for it, and the one thing that is clear me is that not all of the 330 million Americans are going to be able to keep it together during this very personalized culture war that appears to have no end in sight and is ramping up as opposed to cooling off.

 

[Ziggy]

Mental health issues are ignored by our system.....my belief is because it's expensive to treat/care for these folks. Check your insurance and they'll laugh at you for even asking. Until a change in this environment takes place mental health issues will persist and go untreated or unnoticed until too late.

 

[oldschool]

Mental health issues are ignored by our system.....my belief is because it's expensive to treat/care for these folks. Check your insurance and they'll laugh at you for even asking. Until a change in this environment takes place mental health issues will persist and go untreated or unnoticed until too late.

Health insurance companies don't care about health, they care about profits.

 

[RiverDave]

If someone wants to hurt a lot of people they are going to do it.. In this particular instance the man used guns. Lets "magically" remove all 300+ million guns from America real quick. Lets just pretend there isn't any for a 1/2 a second.

If the guy flew a cessna (he was a pilot after all) into the crowd the death toll would likely even be greater. So lets remove the idea of a plane because not everyone can afford one of those (event though this guy could). The guy could walk into a supermarket and walk out with enough chemicals to create bombs, and or gasses (2.00 you call it). The guy could go to a feed store and purchase salt peter, and to a gas station (Timothy McVeigh) and it isn't much of a step to Oaklahoma City. So lets remove the chemicals out of the stores and anything you can potentially make something deadly with (Impossible in itself, but lets pretend). Well then you move onto poison's.. The guy could go buy a keg of budlight or coorslight. He could purchase a bunch of (again 2.00 you call it there's so many ways to make deadly shit), he could insert the poison in the keg and drop it off even with a shitty costume at any of the vendors and they'll wheel that son of a bitch right in there for him. So lets remove the poison idea and just take all that off the shelf. Now the guy goes and gets into his 1 ton dually, and just runs that little fence right over and unlike Paris and Santa Barbara doesn't hesitate or stop but whacks the gas.. I'd bet he'd get at least 60 by the time he hit the stage.

The method is irrelevant, it's the cause and rooting that out before someone acts, or somehow detecting it before it happens. The detecting before it happens then opens up another debate about privacy etc..

Our Education system has failed us.. Our lifetime politicians are failing us (term limits), and more over the media is playing a large roll (I believe) in creating this. The weak minded, the sheeple if you will are listening to these whack jobs (on both sides) and buying it hook line and sinker. The modern generation believes there is a place for everyone in society. If you don't fit in here, you can fit in there.. If you can't get a chick? No problem (don't try try again) you can become gay and be accepted instantly overnight. If you don't fit in there there's a 100 other different directions you can go now to the point that you can just "identify" as whatever the fuck you want to be so that you are comfortable. That's great in a utopian world, but there is contempt and a lot of it being harbored by all of the groups towards one another.

When I say all the groups I mean all of them..

The Blacks now hate the whites.. They call it white privilege, they call it inequality, they call it racism. I recently got into a conversation with one of these nut jobs on FB. I asked one question "Can you point out which inequality in America that you have been subjected too?" Obviously that person couldn't so it turned to them calling me a racist.. "Can you point out anything that I have done that is racist?" Which turned into "White privilege".. "Can you tell me when the meeting happened where I got my white privilege?"

The LGBT community is probably the most tolerant but also have some deep routed contempt as well. There is a reason that this whole thing is being pushed so heavily. There is a reason why literally every single gay couple is making out in public, or it's on every single TV show known to man during prime time. That's there "fuck you" to the group they weren't assimilated into when they were young. That's their fuck you to those that didn't accept them, ranging from school to the parents.

The AntiFa community is just brainwashed and ignorant. These people are angry at life and are ironically enough the very thing they profess to despise. They are the epitome of fascists themselves (a fact I just can't get over.. I mean seriously WTF?).

I could go on and on.. The point of it is the world is polarized, and people are "getting in where they fit in" and intolerant of any other group, lifestyle, thought process, or logic. Invariably all the groups are using emotion and not logic or thought processes. They are all angry about some social injustice that happened to them when they are younger, and they are all looking for some kind of retribution. Invariably they all blame the white American male as well for their problems.

These people are so lazy and angry that if you disagree with any of them on any level they just call you a bigot, a racist, a white privileged asshole. Ask them any kind of simple question though and their heads explode. They are so fucking lazy that they won't even research their supposed cause. If it's online they'll just google something real quick and you can bet it will be in the top 5 search results every time. LOL It's pretty surreal.

Nobody knows the trials and tribulations they had to go through in life... Nobody knows the pain and the anger.. The point they are all missing (from left to right, straight to gay, from race to religion) is nobody cares.. The world doesn't owe you shit. Your life is yours, and you get one good chance to make what you want of it. There's homeless that have gone to riches. There's slaves that have risen to power. There's minorities that created a civil movement for rights and are now equal! There's gays that have changed the landscape of society and government.

It's done!! The fight is literally over.. Now they are trying to swing the pendulum not for equality but rather inequality so that society favors each individual sect. The very thing the pioneers set out to destroy the modern generations are working to bring back! It's sad, disturbing, and ignorant all at the same time.

Do you think if Dr. King lived in 2017 he'd be fighting for civil rights? There's nothing left to fight for.. It's over. What to do with all that passion now and anger.. Who to blame except ourselves?

RD

 

[JD D05]

If someone wants to hurt a lot of people they are going to do it.. In this particular instance the man used guns. Lets "magically" remove all 300+ million guns from America real quick. Lets just pretend there isn't any for a 1/2 a second.

If the guy flew a cessna (he was a pilot after all) into the crowd the death toll would likely even be greater. So lets remove the idea of a plane because not everyone can afford one of those (event though this guy could). The guy could walk into a supermarket and walk out with enough chemicals to create bombs, and or gasses (2.00 you call it). The guy could go to a feed store and purchase salt peter, and to a gas station (Timothy McVeigh) and it isn't much of a step to Oaklahoma City. So lets remove the chemicals out of the stores and anything you can potentially make something deadly with (Impossible in itself, but lets pretend). Well then you move onto poison's.. The guy could go buy a keg of budlight or coorslight. He could purchase a bunch of (again 2.00 you call it there's so many ways to make deadly shit), he could insert the poison in the keg and drop it off even with a shitty costume at any of the vendors and they'll wheel that son of a bitch right in there for him. So lets remove the poison idea and just take all that off the shelf. Now the guy goes and gets into his 1 ton dually, and just runs that little fence right over and unlike Paris and Santa Barbara doesn't hesitate or stop but whacks the gas.. I'd bet he'd get at least 60 by the time he hit the stage.

The method is irrelevant, it's the cause and rooting that out before someone acts, or somehow detecting it before it happens. The detecting before it happens then opens up another debate about privacy etc..

Our Education system has failed us.. Our lifetime politicians are failing us (term limits), and more over the media is playing a large roll (I believe) in creating this. The weak minded, the sheeple if you will are listening to these whack jobs (on both sides) and buying it hook line and sinker. The modern generation believes there is a place for everyone in society. If you don't fit in here, you can fit in there.. If you can't get a chick? No problem (don't try try again) you can become gay and be accepted instantly overnight. If you don't fit in there there's a 100 other different directions you can go now to the point that you can just "identify" as whatever the fuck you want to be so that you are comfortable. That's great in a utopian world, but there is contempt and a lot of it being harbored by all of the groups towards one another.

When I say all the groups I mean all of them..

The Blacks now hate the whites.. They call it white privilege, they call it inequality, they call it racism. I recently got into a conversation with one of these nut jobs on FB. I asked one question "Can you point out which inequality in America that you have been subjected too?" Obviously that person couldn't so it turned to them calling me a racist.. "Can you point out anything that I have done that is racist?" Which turned into "White privilege".. "Can you tell me when the meeting happened where I got my white privilege?"

The LGBT community is probably the most tolerant but also have some deep routed contempt as well. There is a reason that this whole thing is being pushed so heavily. There is a reason why literally every single gay couple is making out in public, or it's on every single TV show known to man during prime time. That's there "fuck you" to the group they weren't assimilated into when they were young. That's their fuck you to those that didn't accept them, ranging from school to the parents.

The AntiFa community is just brainwashed and ignorant. These people are angry at life and are ironically enough the very thing they profess to despise. They are the epitome of fascists themselves (a fact I just can't get over.. I mean seriously WTF?).

I could go on and on.. The point of it is the world is polarized, and people are "getting in where they fit in" and intolerant of any other group, lifestyle, thought process, or logic. Invariably all the groups are using emotion and not logic or thought processes. They are all angry about some social injustice that happened to them when they are younger, and they are all looking for some kind of retribution. Invariably they all blame the white American male as well for their problems.

Nobody knows the trials and tribulations they had to go through in life... Nobody knows the pain and the anger.. The point they are all missing (from left to right, straight to gay, from race to religion) is nobody cares.. The world doesn't owe you shit. Your life is yours, and you get one good chance to make what you want of it. There's homeless that have gone to riches. There's slaves that have risen to power. There's minorities that created a civil movement for rights and are now equal! There's gays that have changed the landscape of society and government.

It's done!! The fight is literally over.. Now they are trying to swing the pendulum not for equality but rather inequality so that society favors each individual sect. The very thing the pioneers set out to destroy the modern generations are working to bring back! It's sad, disturbing, and ignorant all at the same time.

Do you think if Dr. King lived in 2017 he'd be fighting for civil rights? There's nothing left to fight for.. It's over. What to do with all that passion now and anger.. Who to blame except ourselves?

RD

What is your position on the role of government in supporting innovation in the field of biotechnology?

 

[RiverDave]

What is your position on the role of government in supporting innovation in the field of biotechnology?

[video=youtube_https;_yYDzLUH1NE]https://youtu.be/_yYDzLUH1NE[/video]

 

[Tank]

All fair points.

However I would like to point out how the absolute validity of your first paragraph, which I completely agree with, is then followed up in your second paragraph with exactly that which you point out.

The culture of America and the culture of our leadership today is when one disagrees with another person, as opposed to advocating a position, citizens resort to personal attacks, or attacks about an individuals' moral or ethical motives. Pathetic dip shits, people crying, snowflakes, homos, retards, poofters, libtards, imbeciles, jack booted thugs, Nazis, Racists.....pick the term either side uses to go right after the messenger as their very first and primary retort, as opposed to refuting the argument. It is not an attempt to have a discussion, it is an attempt to dehumanize, attack the integrity and belittle the other person as an individual as opposed to discuss the policies.

Very valid and fair point. And I would agree with you on that, with a caveat that I'm not a politician, I'm stating a personal viewpoint of an entertainer who I have zero respect for and who's job is not to comment on social issues but to entertain the masses. I just want him to do his job and entertain, not try to be a social spokesperson or deliver the news. My feeling is that all commentary from Hollywood does is create more of a divide. Thus, I think Jimmy Kimmel is a huge dipshit. Now, would I call someone a dip shit I was attempting to work on and resolve and issue with? No, I would not. I believe you are correct (if I may expand a bit) that politicians or anyone in a professional capacity need to have mutual respect to resolve issues and name calling should not be tolerated. There's definitely a lack of common decency and courtesy in this country that has been deteriorating since after WWII.

With respect to your second paragraph, I can assure you with great certainty that if you hooked up Mrs. Clinton, Mr. Kimmel, or even Ms. Giffords who engaged in the same conduct yesterday to a lie detector test, that they honestly believe that greater gun control will cut down on gun violence. They may be wrong but until people attempt to understand it is not a political agenda, but their honest belief, it will forever be impossible, as you pointed out in your first paragraph, to have a discussion.

I revert back to my last statement. It's not the job of entertainers to push political beliefs. And I'm sorry but Hillary Clinton is irrelevant. She doesn't have a political job. She lost the presidency race. It's over. Kind've on the same thought pattern as calling names is unprofessional, so is (in my opinion) stating irrelevant beliefs (we need to outlaw suppressors, etc) that just further pushes the divide. Not to mention, I think that you can honestly believe in all your heart that gun control will stop gun violence but there's a time and a place to talk about it (that's on the senate floor while trying to get laws past) and it is a moot point whether it's their honest belief or not, it's 100% a political agenda and push.

This is not the fault of the media, it is not the fault of "political correctness" it is a result of the fact that our society has changed. We are doing it to each other, no one else is responsible for it, and the one thing that is clear me is that not all of the 330 million Americans are going to be able to keep it together during this very personalized culture war that appears to have no end in sight and is ramping up as opposed to cooling off.

I would say to this that there is blame from many different sources but in the end, we are responsible for our own actions, no one else.

 

[Tank]

What is your position on the role of government in supporting innovation in the field of biotechnology?

Holy shit!! First smile today. Thank you.

 

[Ballyhoo]

I don't believe you can compare the US to other countries when it comes to all kinds of issues, we simply have a different culture and issues. When it comes to guns Australia had to "buy back" 600K or something like that, I think the US is 90 Million or some insane number. That is simply a number that is impossible to overcome.

The U.S. also has that pesky constitution and bill of rights to deal with.

 

[JD D05]

The U.S. also has that pesky constitution and bill of rights to deal with.

Well ya, my post was just focusing on the impossible task of a round up from just a numbers point. "Are you going to invade"? "No there is a gun behind every blade of grass".

 

[Ballyhoo]

Yeah, I TOTALLY disagree. Those countries don't have it "figured out". They live in constant fear and intimidation. Searching everybody everytime they walk into a building or searching every car everytime they go into a parking structure...... sounds more like a prison and less of a society that's doing well.

100% right. We live in a free country and stuff like that will never happen. Even in tightly controlled countries, countries under socialist/communist rule, folks get murdered. China recently had 11 school kids muredered by a knife wielding guy. You can legislate things but you just cant legislate crazy people or people for that matter, at least not in the USA.

 

[92562]

I was raised in a time and place where close to every household had a gun or guns of some sort. Mostly hunting weapons but plenty of hand guns and military weapons. When in gradeschool we played cowboys and indians, cops and robbers, and war. At home and at school. We learned to play dead and we learned how to fake killing. I recall of not one kid that ever later became a mass murderer or even a single murder.

What we all did know was gun safety and how real weapons worked and the respect they needed to treated with in everyday life. We also knew the value of human life and could distinguish between reality and fantasy. So what has changed outside of fear and trying to keep even play weapons at a minimum?

The dorm I lived in my freshman year of college had numerous shotguns and large and small caliber hunting rifles. Never and incident. Now no guns and who knows the number of gun incidents. So what has changed?

I doubt it's video games. But something maddening has changed from what we see as regular violence on campuses around the nation.

And those who talk about us being behind in hotel and overall security. Look back at many of these cities/nations and you will find they are in secure mode due to open violence in their nations. London has been a no gun zone for decades, yet they have had numerous violent acts involving bombs, knives and guns. Security helps but doesn't eliminate it.

Mass shootings, bombings, etc have been worldwide issues forever in spite of heavy security measures......We're back to square one from what I can see, we have to figure out the mental link and how societal changes have made violence seem to increase. Gonna be long and hard is all I know.

I think the main difference between then and now is the amount of hate and anger. I am sure it will come out that this guy was really angry about something, just like the guy who shot Steve Scalise a few months ago. My Dad grew up in Inglewood in the 40s and 50s. He was a member of the high school rifle team and walked to and from school with a rifle often. When you got to school, it was put in a cabinet that was UNLOCKED. No mass shootings, not one! You were taught basic firearm safety in school. Most people don't know but most of the High Schools on LA have indoor shooting ranges below the gym. I bet other cities across the country have the same. Today, they are used for storage. Back then you did not have the media barraging people with bias filled hate 24-7. Or "memes" that lack a basis in fact taken by many as the truth. Mental illness is also an issue, but why is it so much worse now than 60 years ago? Sorry, I have no solutions, just an opinion...

 

[Chili Palmer]

What is your position on the role of government in supporting innovation in the field of biotechnology?

Recent research has shown that empirical evidence for globalization of corporate innovation is very limited and as a corollary the market for technologies is shrinking. As a world leader, it's important for America to provide systematic research grants for our scientists. I believe strongly there will always be a need for us to have a well-articulated innovation policy with emphasis on human resource development.

Thank you.

You've got to add some levity in this thread - it's getting F'n depressing, this country is really screwed up because all these little special interest groups have been getting too much attention the last 10 years and now that someone is telling them that their 15 minutes is up they're all getting uppity now.


Edit - Damn it, too late, someone beat me posting this - too many people came into my office to see me before I could complete this and post it.

 

[Old Texan]

Hey cowboy..... re-read what I said in response to what you said. I said those countries live in fear. You said they dont. I responded back with examples of relatively common events that happen in the "smarter" country of Isreal you used as an example. Everything I have wrote was a direct example and response to what you have said.

And if those countries are "smarter" as per your metrics, then North Korean must be the smartest fucking nation in the world! They have that shit on lock down!!

The conflict I see going on here, is in Israel one is relatively safe from a random gunman shooting citizens out of a hotel window. BUT it's far more likely those same citizens sitting in a street side coffee shop could be blown to smithereens by an incoming Scud missile.:yikes

At the end of the day I'm going to take my chances in the US mores so than Israel. Israel isn't so much smarter as they are more diligent due to dangers from surrounding enemies committed to exterminating all Israeli citizens. They damned sure live in fear from what I see anyway.:skull

 

[Old Texan]

I have a couple comments on this subject.

As a CCW holder who carries his firearms all day, everyday, this situation has been messing with my head. In all of the previous mass shootings that have happened, I have felt as though that I would have a better than not chance of making it out alive because these fuckers don't expect return fire. (To be clear, I am not talking about being a hero or being Rambo, I am talking about effectively facilitating myself, and my families escape from the situation) But in this one, the sheer amount of helplessness that there was is mind boggling. I can pull off a 200yd suppressive fire shot with my pistol but it looks like this guys was probably 500+yd out. No way anyone who was getting shot at could have returned fire without endangering everyone else in the hotel. Going forward, I am adding another tourniquet and another pack of hemostatic clotting agent to my current ankle medical setup.

Now how to stop these things from happening. The root of all of this falls back to mental health issues, little known fact that we only have 10% of the people institutionalized today than we did 60 years ago and our population has more than doubled in that time. In the late 60s and early 70s, there was a push that the people who are crazy, are not crazy and just "free spirits and existentialists" and let many of them out. Now, our mental health problem, homeless problem, and senseless mass violence problem have steadily increased since the crazies got let out. This is one of the few areas in life where I feel like the Govt actually has useful role.

Now about what was being discussed with an M240. As a responsible armed citizen, I am accountable for every round that I fire during a defensive shooting situation, I can't pull that off with a 240 on full-fun-switch. Because of that, even if a 240 was attainable at Walmart (as eluded to earlier) I wouldn't buy it as a defensive firearm because it is useless. Squad Automatic Weapons are designed to lay down suppressive fire in the heat of battle, nothing more, nothing less, that is why many responsibly armed citizens (myself included) don't really mind that they are difficult to obtain. This may be unpopular, but we are lucky that he used fully auto instead of semi auto accurately aimed fire. If you watch videos you can see that many of the rounds were striking the ground and not people.

On the suppressor front, suppressors are designed to protect the hearing of those operating the firearm. The loudest part of any gunshot is the round breaking the sound barrier. If he had a can, would it have been quieter on the ground? Slightly but not much. If he did have a can on his gun, it would have melted the can, caused heat damage to his barrel and fire control group and caused his weapon to malfunction and be incredible inaccurate.

As normal people, what can we doing going forward to help our survivability factor in a situation like this? GET MEDICAL TRAINING!!! There have been conflicting reports of how long it took to bring the shooter down from 20 minutes up to 1hr. During that time, no medical personal would be allowed in the "kill zone" and it would have to be up to you to control your bleeding while you wait for more qualified people to show up. If you live in the PHX metro area, there is a training class being put on by Dark Angel Medical at Scottsdale Gun Club the first weekend of November. The owner of Dark Angel is a retired USAF PJ, a civilian paramedic, and civilian trauma nurse who puts on training classes all over the country on how to render self aid and to people around you if you are involved in a shooting/trauma type situation.

In closing, always remember Ben Franklin's quote, "He who chooses security over liberty deserves neither security nor liberty."

What do I know, I'm just a millennial :skull:skull:skull

Your post should be required reading for every editor that allows inacurate articles and every idiot politician and talk show host that spews nonsense.:thumbsup

Facts make the majority of their rhetoric into nothing but bullshit.

 

[dribble]

Yeah, I TOTALLY disagree. Those countries don't have it "figured out". They live in constant fear and intimidation. Searching everybody everytime they walk into a building or searching every car everytime they go into a parking structure...... sounds more like a prison and less of a society that's doing well.

100% right. We live in a free country and stuff like that will never happen. Even in tightly controlled countries, countries under socialist/communist rule, folks get murdered. China recently had 11 school kids muredered by a knife wielding guy. You can legislate things but you just cant legislate crazy people or people for that matter, at least not in the USA.

Ok I have to weigh in on this one.

About three years ago my neighbor did a one month house exchange with a family from the French Countryside near Paris. When the Paris mother found out that the American family was sleeping with the windows open she flipped out and called and told them not to do that because bandits will break in. I mean it was a big deal. I was talking to her and told her that that does not happen like that here. We sleep with our windows open. She said why? I said why do you think? and she said guns? I said yes guns. We all have them here and told her about castle laws and how it's legal to shoot someone dead in your occupied home, even in California.

She said she would prefer that to the way they have to live. Doors locked windows closed and always worried about bandits.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

Ok I have to weigh in on this one.

About three years ago my neighbor did a one month house exchange with a family from the French Countryside near Paris. When the Paris mother found out that the American family was sleeping with the windows open she flipped out and called and told them not to do that because bandits will break in. I mean it was a big deal. I was talking to her and told her that that does not happen like that here. We sleep with our windows open. She said why? I said why do you think? and she said guns? I said yes guns. We all have them here and told her about castle laws and how it's legal to shoot someone dead in your occupied home, even in California.

She said she would prefer that to the way they have to live. Doors locked windows closed and always worried about bandits.

This is exactly my point. When people refer to other country's "security measures" as examples for what should be done here they never look at what those citizens feel like with those measures. They speak from a visitors perspective. Well that perspective is tainted because you get to leave when you wish and return relative safety and much more freedom.

 

[530RL]

Ok I have to weigh in on this one.

About three years ago my neighbor did a one month house exchange with a family from the French Countryside near Paris. When the Paris mother found out that the American family was sleeping with the windows open she flipped out and called and told them not to do that because bandits will break in. I mean it was a big deal. I was talking to her and told her that that does not happen like that here. We sleep with our windows open. She said why? I said why do you think? and she said guns? I said yes guns. We all have them here and told her about castle laws and how it's legal to shoot someone dead in your occupied home, even in California.

She said she would prefer that to the way they have to live. Doors locked windows closed and always worried about bandits.

Let's take a look at the intentional homicide rates per 100,000 inhabitants. Gun or not, dead is dead.

It is 4.88 per 100,000 in the US, yet only 1.58 per 100,000 in France.

Want to take a charter boat to the BVI, well it is 8.37 per 100,000. How about a house in the US Virgin Islands, well better get nervous because the homicide rate there is 52.64 per 100,000 people. eek:eek

In any event, I always find data interesting as it always brings out some interesting things I never would have thought true.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

 

[Old Texan]

Mental health issues are ignored by our system.....my belief is because it's expensive to treat/care for these folks. Check your insurance and they'll laugh at you for even asking. Until a change in this environment takes place mental health issues will persist and go untreated or unnoticed until too late.

The problem with mental health is we are dealing with issues not as specifically and accurately diagnosed as physical issues. Insurance is indeed a money business and mental health is not a static issue they can chart from a time and treatment standpoint.

You are right on it has to be a more static predictable cost in order for those companies to be able to deal with across the board.

If government gets involved we will have opened a whole new can of worms on how a person with mental issues is labeled from that point forward. The person will no doubt lose personal rights and freedoms as the person is deemed "damaged merchandise".......For every simple solution there seems to be a complex opposite reaction.

 

[Ziggy]

The various types of mental illness are endless as well, many not easy to diagnose or recognize.
Regardless, treatment for people with a mental issue is often ignored by families due to cost.
Sad [emoji20]

 

[sloboat76]

There is no answer to events like this and they will continue......Everyone wants the hey LAM (some do it with there Instagram feed some do it by committing horrible acts)

Like previously mentioned bad people have been doing bad things since the beginning of time. Half of this country is mentally disturbed and there is no way in hell you are changing anything on that front with the amount of $$$ that the pharmaceutical companies are pumping into politics.

You know how many people in this country are on some sort of serious anti anxiety or anti depression drugs and they have never had anything bad happen to them aside from there dad not loving them enough. We are a generation of sissy's being raised by a generation of parents that were more worried about $$$$ and keeping up with the Jones's than actually being good parents. This has only gotten worse in the computer and cell phone era.

We are a busy ,successful group of like minded people that enjoy adventure and getting outdoors....Do you ever talk to people you know and wonder WTF they are doing in life. Seriously I/we all know people that have zero hobbies and do nothing but sit on there couch and surf the internet and post on facebook while being terribly unhappy......This is the society we live in.

Go home hug your kids and tell your wife you love her and enjoy life everyday to the fullest extent you can.

This here would help anyone. Also I think somewhat the pussification taking place that has got us here. I did bad shit at school, I got my ass whipped at school and when I got home. My neighbors would jerk my ass up and whip me if I stepped out of line, and then get an ass whipping at home when my parents found out. I whip my kids and ask for them to be whipped at school(never going to happen due to pussies fucking that up trying to sue the school) and tell friends parents to treat them as you do your own. The lefties always scream it takes everyone, well don't bitch when I jerk up your demon spawn and whip his ass when they impugn on my peace and happiness. When I grew up we had guns and respected them and their power and knew it was a privilege to use one, we also played cops and robber(actually cowboys and injuns) and due to the values my parents and community instilled in me, I have never let those lessons falter not one bit. I have a 4 year old and a 6 year old and they both already shoot real guns and has respect for that privilege. I want them to be confident in the ability to protect themselves and their future family and hope they pass it down to their families as well. Burn me if you want for using my 2nd Amendment but I would refer you back to the first and tell you to kiss my ass.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

I honestly think he was rational. Rational people can commit horrible acts. I think we will find, in the fullness of time, that this was a man who decided to step outside of society's bounds and make a statement.

Loughner was crazy, McVeigh was not in other words.

While it takes some sort of mental deficiency to attempt to kill hundreds of people, it doesn't mean he was "crazy" in the sense we think of, certainly not the kind that most anyone can spot on the street.

 

[Taboma]

Let's take a look at the intentional homicide rates per 100,000 inhabitants. Gun or not, dead is dead.

It is 4.88 per 100,000 in the US, yet only 1.58 per 100,000 in France.

Want to take a charter boat to the BVI, well it is 8.37 per 100,000. How about a house in the US Virgin Islands, well better get nervous because the homicide rate there is 52.64 per 100,000 people. eek:eek

In any event, I always find data interesting as it always brings out some interesting things I never would have thought true.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Interesting, but doesn't one need to consider as an example --- the entire population of the BVI is around 30K with the vast majority (24K) living on one island, Tortola. So what, a couple of bar brawls and you've satisfied that statistic.

US Virgin Island, yea fun to shop for the day then jump on the ferry back to the BVI

We all know where to stay away from in the USA :eek

 

[rivrrts429]

Interesting, but doesn't one need to consider as an example --- the entire population of the BVI is around 30K with the vast majority (24K) living on one island, Tortola. So what, a couple of bar brawls and you've satisfied that statistic.

US Virgin Island, yea fun to shop for the day then jump on the ferry back to the BVI

We all know where to stay away from in the USA :eek

None of it makes sense. Today on my way home I was three times more likely to die in an auto accident than I was by a gun but nobody is writing legislation to go back to riding horses and stagecoaches.

 

[DaveC]

The answer is to shoot back effectively