Two people hurt jumping from Topock bridge.

[oldschool]

Just remove the bridge.

or make it an underpass.

 

[Advantage 1]

or make it an underpass.

Problem solved!

 

[oldschool]

Problem solved!

Seems simple enough. Good work.

 

[buck35]

Joe, it's a kid that made a mistake and had some bad judgement.. There is no malicious intent here. While it sucks what happened, sometimes accidents do happen, even if there is negligence. Kids have to be afforded the opportunity to make mistakes. The fact that in the current era they aren't allowed to make any is part of the problem with society as a whole.
U
What you are suggesting could be applied to a hundred different scenarios.. Someone jumps off the top of a dune, and collides with someone else.. All of a sudden it's criminal because they didn't use good judgement by having a spotter? I'm not a dune guy so that's probably a shitty example, and for all I know it might be criminal.. i'm just saying it's a kid that jumped off something high.. Pretty sure he wasn't thinking a boat would be appearing beneath him. Shit happens.. Bad on the kid for sure, but I'm sure he's learning from his mistakes right now in the hospital.

Really have to agree with dave, a terrible thing happened, but no one knows a thing about the jumper. For all we know hes an eagle scout and all around great guy. He also may be a douchbag, but only time will tell and drawing and quartering him before hand really serves no purpose.

 

[PlumLoco]

Early reports on the jumper were that he had no feeling from his chest down. If his condition doesn't improve I don't think any court mandated jail sentence or financial restitution will compare to the life sentence he has given himself.

 

[BasilHayden]

Dave et al

My point was not as much lock the kid away because he broke the law, but DO NOT punish the rest of us with restrictions because some jack ass breaks an already established law. I am so far on your side its funny, but the gov't response is going to be to close the section of river below the bridge because some jackass could jump and therefore hurt us as we cross beneath lawfully.:mad2:

Just sick and tired of the overreach of the authorities because they can, and of course they are protecting us. :finger

 

[lbhsbz]

Early reports on the jumper were that he had no feeling from his chest down. If his condition doesn't improve I don't think any court mandated jail sentence or financial restitution will compare to the life sentence he has given himself.

You're absolutely right...yet because of his epic fuckup, we're all gonna be paying for his disability until he gives up.

He shoulda landed on his head.

 

[SRice]

You are absolutely right, she was assaulted by an idiot, he should be charged with attempted murder and put away. But unfortunately what tends to happen is "we should shut the river down so no one gets hurt by idiots jumping of the bridge" even though it is clearly illegal already.

You missed the point being made, instead of punishing the idiot, the powers that be will find a way to punish the rest of us who were playing the by the already too strict rules. SRice, I appreciate your willingness to come on and try to have the conversation, however I personally would like the conversation to start with, we the people own this federal land and as such have the right to enjoy it freely. It is not owned by those in the tower who we are paying. There is too little respect given to the public and way too much "authority" being abused.

Please spend a month dealing only with complete morons, not families just trying to have a nice day on the lake. Instead of DUI inspections, sorry "safety checks", pull over the idiot running 20 through Thompson bay, or the jet ski who just has to jump the wake in front of us, or even an idiot running the river at 120 who intentionally roosted the kayak (btw my guess is you won't find too many of those). Every one of us, including you I am sure, has been affected by these idiots every time we hit the water. The safety checks are not making the impact you are looking for. That safety check should be accomplished at the launch ramp and used as education not enforcement. The idiots, lets try enforcement there.

Please reread this before flaming; SRice, I appreciate your willingness to come on and try to have the conversation.

Let me just respond to part of this for now and when I'm not dead tired I'll give the rest some thought. The mistake I want to point out to you and Spectra is that "public land" does not always mean it was reserved for public recreation. I know that agencies like the BLM exist in large part to provide opportunities for public recreation, but the enabling legislation of Havasu NWR from the 1940s and the very mission of my agency is first and foremost to protect areas of wildlife habitat for wildlife. When Parker Dam and all the others were put in it effectively destroyed hundreds of miles of habitat. Congress decided to protect the remaining areas for the wildlife displaced by this action. McCulloch came along 25 years later and realized the effect of the dams and wildlife refuge was to create a place which would also be pretty attractive to people, and FWS is allowed to a open refuges to recreation as long as it is compatable with the reason Congress created the refuge- conservation. Ditto military land. It may all be owned by the Federal government and therefore "we the people", but it is land reserved for a very specific purpose and any secondary uses of the land must remain compatable with that legal mandate. I'll get back to you later on the rest- this will get me in enough trouble for one night. Thanks.

 

[SRice]

Dave et al

My point was not as much lock the kid away because he broke the law, but DO NOT punish the rest of us with restrictions because some jack ass breaks an already established law. I am so far on your side its funny, but the gov't response is going to be to close the section of river below the bridge because some jackass could jump and therefore hurt us as we cross beneath lawfully.:mad2:

Just sick and tired of the overreach of the authorities because they can, and of course they are protecting us. :finger

I don't think anybody is talking about further restricting boating due to this incident. There was prior discussion of how to keep people off the bridge and fact that swimmers in that area might be an obstacles to raising the current no wake speed limit, but no discussion of restricting boating over this that I recall.

 

[Reddy Too]

Joe I'm almost 40, and if I asked myself "what would be the worst that could happen if I got caught jumping off the Topock bridge". the answer would come back some bullshit misdemeanor ticket that I could pay out of what was in my wallet on the boat.. my primary concerns would be depth, possibly landing on a boat.. ear damage from the water.. not sticking the landing for the ultimate belly flop.. lol. a whole host of shit that would have nothing to do with running into some railroad chronie.. because if I made it to my boat Mr Railroad can kiss my ass.

Dave,

I don't post much here, however I will throw in my 2 cents. I think you are missing the point. The jumper was/is selfish and now is reaping what he sowed with the injuries sustained. The unfortunate boater who not only pulled the jumpers lifeless body out of swift moving water and had to deal with substantial injuries on his own vessel will ultimately be pulled into the frey of litigation. I firmly believe that if you were the unfortunate boater and your family incurred life threating injuries you would not dismiss the action of the jumper as a "my bad kind of moment".

 

[Icky]

Dave,

I don't post much here, however I will throw in my 2 cents. I think you are missing the point. The jumper was/is selfish and now is reaping what he sowed with the injuries sustained. The unfortunate boater who not only pulled the jumpers lifeless body out of swift moving water and had to deal with substantial injuries on his own vessel will ultimately be pulled into the frey of litigation. I firmly believe that if you were the unfortunate boater and your family incurred life threating injuries you would not dismiss the action of the jumper as a "my bad kind of moment".

I just like your reason for editing :thumbsup

 

[rcmike]

Let me just respond to part of this for now and when I'm not dead tired I'll give the rest some thought. The mistake I want to point out to you and Spectra is that "public land" does not always mean it was reserved for public recreation. I know that agencies like the BLM exist in large part to provide opportunities for public recreation, but the enabling legislation of Havasu NWR from the 1940s and the very mission of my agency is first and foremost to protect areas of wildlife habitat for wildlife. When Parker Dam and all the others were put in it effectively destroyed hundreds of miles of habitat. Congress decided to protect the remaining areas for the wildlife displaced by this action. McCulloch came along 25 years later and realized the effect of the dams and wildlife refuge was to create a place which would also be pretty attractive to people, and FWS is allowed to a open refuges to recreation as long as it is compatable with the reason Congress created the refuge- conservation. Ditto military land. It may all be owned by the Federal government and therefore "we the people", but it is land reserved for a very specific purpose and any secondary uses of the land must remain compatable with that legal mandate. I'll get back to you later on the rest- this will get me in enough trouble for one night. Thanks.

So yeah, it belongs to you, and we are lucky you let us look at it..

 

[Reddy Too]

I just like your reason for editing :thumbsup

You have to call a spade when it's a spade.

 

[rrrr]

Really have to agree with dave, a terrible thing happened, but no one knows a thing about the jumper. For all we know hes an eagle scout and all around great guy. He also may be a douchebag, but only time will tell and drawing and quartering him before hand really serves no purpose.

It's a shame the kid is twenty something and apparently hasn't learned to read, because I'm pretty sure there are BNSF signs of both ends of that bridge that say "Keep your ass off our bridge" in unambiguous language.

 

[BHC Vic]

Lol some of you guys are unreal

 

[Taboma]

Let me just respond to part of this for now and when I'm not dead tired I'll give the rest some thought. The mistake I want to point out to you and Spectra is that "public land" does not always mean it was reserved for public recreation. I know that agencies like the BLM exist in large part to provide opportunities for public recreation, but the enabling legislation of Havasu NWR from the 1940s and the very mission of my agency is first and foremost to protect areas of wildlife habitat for wildlife. When Parker Dam and all the others were put in it effectively destroyed hundreds of miles of habitat. Congress decided to protect the remaining areas for the wildlife displaced by this action. McCulloch came along 25 years later and realized the effect of the dams and wildlife refuge was to create a place which would also be pretty attractive to people, and FWS is allowed to a open refuges to recreation as long as it is compatable with the reason Congress created the refuge- conservation. Ditto military land. It may all be owned by the Federal government and therefore "we the people", but it is land reserved for a very specific purpose and any secondary uses of the land must remain compatable with that legal mandate. I'll get back to you later on the rest- this will get me in enough trouble for one night. Thanks.

With all due respect and coming from one who certainly appreciates both the need and beauty provided by NWR, here's a snip from the press release authored by Gavin Shire of FWS explaining the 2017 budget request for $ 1.6 BILLION. I've highlighted a couple of key statements which seem to indicate that recreating and supporting thousands of tourism related jobs is indeed part of the program. You don't suppose that aspect was included in this mission statement simply to help sell it do you ? So yes, it may have initially been all about protecting the critters, but in order to secure in excess of a $ Billion dollar annual budget, of which the animals contribute ZERO, you need some public support too :rolleyes

Exhibit "A"

 

[Mr. C]

Lol some of you guys are unreal

No shit! I wish i was as perfect as some seem to be.

 

[McRib]

Lol some of you guys are unreal

Unreal? About what? Not having sympathy for someone that gets hurt/maimed/or dead from doing something stupid? Loss of life is and always will be tragic. Would I be upset if it were my kid? Absolutely! The difference is I'd be upset at him and only him for putting himself in this situation. I wouldn't want laws changed to "prevent " this from happening again. What good does that do? Signage on any level on water or land is there for lawyers when shit like this goes to court and nothing more. People with their poor him poor them bleeding heart syndrome actually make these things worse all around.
You'll have to forgive me. My heart was encased in an impenetrable black shroud in 1995. I'm numb to shit like this.

 

[buck35]

What the guy did was indeed stupid.
In the video that was posted weren't there a bunch of people egging him on to jump? Shouldn't someone have yelled BOAT!
Not condoning his actions in any way but the other swimmers had to have seen the boat:eek

 

[Singleton]

What the guy did was indeed stupid.
In the video that was posted weren't there a bunch of people egging him on to jump? Shouldn't someone have yelled BOAT!
Not condoning his actions in any way but the other swimmers had to have seen the boat:eek

So now we blame everyone else and not the jumper.

 

[buck35]

So now we blame everyone else and not the jumper.

Not at all what I said !

 

[spectra3279]

Let me just respond to part of this for now and when I'm not dead tired I'll give the rest some thought. The mistake I want to point out to you and Spectra is that "public land" does not always mean it was reserved for public recreation. I know that agencies like the BLM exist in large part to provide opportunities for public recreation, but the enabling legislation of Havasu NWR from the 1940s and the very mission of my agency is first and foremost to protect areas of wildlife habitat for wildlife. When Parker Dam and all the others were put in it effectively destroyed hundreds of miles of habitat. Congress decided to protect the remaining areas for the wildlife displaced by this action. McCulloch came along 25 years later and realized the effect of the dams and wildlife refuge was to create a place which would also be pretty attractive to people, and FWS is allowed to a open refuges to recreation as long as it is compatable with the reason Congress created the refuge- conservation. Ditto military land. It may all be owned by the Federal government and therefore "we the people", but it is land reserved for a very specific purpose and any secondary uses of the land must remain compatable with that legal mandate. I'll get back to you later on the rest- this will get me in enough trouble for one night. Thanks.

It's not the fact of of closing off some of the wildlife areas, its the manner in which it's done. That's what makes it seem you ( the whole agency) are the sole proprietor. That negates the stewardship.

 

[SRice]

So yeah, it belongs to you, and we are lucky you let us look at it..

Nope, it doesn't belong to me. It belongs to the American people. But when your elected representatives established the refuge in the 1940s they said very specifically why it was being held as Federal property and what secondary uses were allowed (actually that part comes later under the Refuge Improvement Act). The White House belongs to the American people, Luke Airforce Base belongs to the American people, the Grand Canyon belongs to the American people- but the Federal government regulates how each is used. Same here.

 

[Taboma]

Nope, it doesn't belong to me. It belongs to the American people. But when your elected representatives established the refuge in the 1940s they said very specifically why it was being held as Federal property and what secondary uses were allowed (actually that part comes later under the Refuge Improvement Act). The White House belongs to the American people, Luke Airforce Base belongs to the American people, the Grand Canyon belongs to the American people- but the Federal government regulates how each is used. Same here.

Just don't forget those last two sentences in that FWS budget press release on page 12 of this thread :rolleyes

 

[rivermobster]

Unreal? About what? Not having sympathy for someone that gets hurt/maimed/or dead from doing something stupid? Loss of life is and always will be tragic. Would I be upset if it were my kid? Absolutely! The difference is I'd be upset at him and only him for putting himself in this situation. I wouldn't want laws changed to "prevent " this from happening again. What good does that do? Signage on any level on water or land is there for lawyers when shit like this goes to court and nothing more. People with their poor him poor them bleeding heart syndrome actually make these things worse all around.
You'll have to forgive me. My heart was encased in an impenetrable black shroud in 1995. I'm numb to shit like this.

Amen Andrew. Amen.

 

[BHC Vic]

I'm not saying poor him. Most everyone makes stupid choices. Lots of guys here will drink and boat that's a stupid choice. I'm just trying to look at myself before casting stones and I can't say I haven't jumped or i won't again. I've made it a habit to see what's below me before i jump but I've also made quite a few jumps. Cats eye and hermit falls pretty recently. Where's that fun police shirt [emoji12]

 

[BHC Vic]

And on another note i know I'll be hung for this but when I drive under the cats eye I am very aware people jump from there so I look up. If someone is up there I avoid crossing the area

 

[SRice]

With all due respect and coming from one who certainly appreciates both the need and beauty provided by NWR, here's a snip from the press release authored by Gavin Shire of FWS explaining the 2017 budget request for $ 1.6 BILLION. I've highlighted a couple of key statements which seem to indicate that recreating and supporting thousands of tourism related jobs is indeed part of the program. You don't suppose that aspect was included in this mission statement simply to help sell it do you ? So yes, it may have initially been all about protecting the critters, but in order to secure in excess of a $ Billion dollar annual budget, of which the animals contribute ZERO, you need some public support too :rolleyes

Exhibit "A"

View attachment 504503

I agree. However, by law the recreation we allow must be compatible with our primary purpose of wildlife conservation AND by law we must prioritize "wildlife dependent" recreation. Take a look at 50 CFR 26.31 and 26.32. https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/50/part-26/subpart-C

 

[oldschool]

I'm not saying poor him. Most everyone makes stupid choices. Lots of guys here will drink and boat that's a stupid choice. I'm just trying to look at myself before casting stones and I can't say I haven't jumped or i won't again. I've made it a habit to see what's below me before i jump but I've also made quite a few jumps. Cats eye and hermit falls pretty recently. Where's that fun police shirt [emoji12]

 

[Bigbore500r]

And on another note i know I'll be hung for this but when I drive under the cats eye I am very aware people jump from there so I look up. If someone is up there I avoid crossing the area

So you take your eyes off the water and stare at the sky while boating at speed ?

 

[BHC Vic]

So you take your eyes off the water and stare at the sky while boating at speed ?

It's hard to tell from the Instagram vid I saw but it looks like they were floating or wake less speed.and probably watching him. Edit isn't it a no wake zone?

 

[SoCalDave]

Mr. Delaney thinks he's a champ...

 

[Mr. C]

I take it you don't think he is?
He made a bad mistake/judgement call and paid for it big time. Probably has a long tough battle ahead of him. Yet most here seem to wish nothing but more suffering.
I wish we could get an update on the girl in the boat. Anybody have any news on her?

Mr. Delaney thinks he's a champ...

View attachment 504530

 

[RiverDave]

Dave,

I don't post much here, however I will throw in my 2 cents. I think you are missing the point. The jumper was/is selfish and now is reaping what he sowed with the injuries sustained. The unfortunate boater who not only pulled the jumpers lifeless body out of swift moving water and had to deal with substantial injuries on his own vessel will ultimately be pulled into the frey of litigation. I firmly believe that if you were the unfortunate boater and your family incurred life threating injuries you would not dismiss the action of the jumper as a "my bad kind of moment".

I would be very upset if it happened to me. And I suppose we could theorize all day long about the future ramifications of that if I were in the situation.. but rest assured the words "lock him up" wouldn't ever come out of my mouth.. That I can guarantee.

 

[Bigbore500r]

It's hard to tell from the Instagram vid I saw but it looks like they were floating or wake less speed.and probably watching him. Edit isn't it a no wake zone?

Yea thats a no-wake zone under the bridge. It looked to me like they were just emerging from under the bridge as the kid jumped. He probably looked down, didn't see a boat, and by the time he actually jumped the bow of that boat emerged from under the bridge and WHAM. The current right there is around 3mph or so, plus with the boat in gear figure you may be moving down river at 5-7mph combined at idle. I bet thats enough time for the boat to have traveled out from under the bridge and right into his jump zone.

 

[cofooter]

Mr. Delaney thinks he's a champ...

View attachment 504530

Dumb and Dumber........

 

[McRib]

I'm not saying poor him. Most everyone makes stupid choices. Lots of guys here will drink and boat that's a stupid choice. I'm just trying to look at myself before casting stones and I can't say I haven't jumped or i won't again. I've made it a habit to see what's below me before i jump but I've also made quite a few jumps. Cats eye and hermit falls pretty recently. Where's that fun police shirt [emoji12]

But it's not about the decision that was made by the injured. It's about the aftermath that effects the ones not making bad decisions. More rules will just harm the percentile that follows them cause no matter what there are rule breakers everyday. I've done a SHIT TON of stupid shit in my day. 98% unscathed. The times my "hold my beer and watch this" moments ended in failure I blamed no one but myself. We all know what's going to happen with this. All the law abiding citizens are gonna be stripped of more freedoms because of a handful of others. Mostly because agencies want to protect "us" lol. Let the weak weed themselves out. If that means a few more hours of paperwork or an agency then so be it. That's their job.

 

[BHC Vic]

I don't think anything will happen. I think it was an accident

 

[SRice]

BasilHayden,

I wanted to reply to the second part of your comment-

"Please spend a month dealing only with complete morons, not families just trying to have a nice day on the lake. Instead of DUI inspections, sorry "safety checks", pull over the idiot running 20 through Thompson bay, or the jet ski who just has to jump the wake in front of us, or even an idiot running the river at 120 who intentionally roosted the kayak (btw my guess is you won't find too many of those). Every one of us, including you I am sure, has been affected by these idiots every time we hit the water. The safety checks are not making the impact you are looking for. That safety check should be accomplished at the launch ramp and used as education not enforcement. The idiots, lets try enforcement there."

The trick for law enforcement is really finding these folks. Sure I see outrageously stupid boat operation on a regular basis, but there is far more that I do not see. Believe it or not, people drive and operate boats differently when they know a cop is watching and I see far more when I'm driving my personal vehicle than when I'm in a marked patrol car or boat. Furthermore, the very lack of speed limits, red lights, and double yellow lines makes detection of offenses like impaired operation of a boat far harder than impaired driving on the highway. We assist Arizona Game and Fish in 2-3 of their OUI checkpoints each year. My perception is that these are not money makers (they're hugely expensive and my agency at least does not make a penny on its citations or arrests). What they are is NEWSWORTHY and that means free advertising of the law and penalties. That's what every agency wants. Personally I think investing that same money in routine patrol would be better (and I have the same criticism of the SB sheriffs helo flying up and down the river), but AZGFD likes them and I'm just glad to have them on the water with us. So back to targeted stops, if I know that say 1 in 20 boaters is impaired at above .08 BAC ( the ratio was significantly higher at the last checkpoint) but I can't just stop folks for speeding, how do we find them? Well, we run the river looking for bow riding, looking for people running on the wrong side of the river, looking for people who aren't using lights after dark- because there is a higher prob that if you're drunk you will also do those things. But we also sit in no wake zones and look for boats ploughing through the water or displaying old registration stickers. Even a non safety violation gives us the probable cause we need (outside the very specific rules of a checkpoint) to make a stop. Do I care if you forgot to change your decal? No, not really- but once we come alongside I'm listening for slurred speech and watching your balance and smelling for alcohol. Every stop we make out there on the water (except hunting/fishing license checks) is an effort to find another drunk and take him off the water before he kills somebody. OUI and reckless operation is the whole point of our summer patrol. The law abiding family with a designated driver and all of the required safety equipment is inconvenienced for about five minutes and probably gets a verbal warning on the expired decal. This is how traffic enforcement works on both land and water for most agencies. The idiots you spoke of are exactly who we're targeting, we just need tools like this to increase our odds of finding them even when they are trying to hide from us. Thx.

 

[Advantage 1]

Dumb and Dumber........

x2

 

[Singleton]

I don't think anything will happen. I think it was an accident

Just the opposite.

Jumper's medical insurance will ask how did you do this and launch investigation. Medical insurance will reject claim after discovering idiot jumped from a bridge that was posted with "Do Not Trespass" signage all over the place. Jumper will hire lawyer and have to go after railroad to try and cover medical expenses (most likely over 750k when done). Railroad will pressure appropriate LEO to charge jumper with trespassing so they can get lawsuit dismissed.

Then injured girls family will have to sue boat owners insurance to get her medical expenses covered (this part sucks). Boat owner insurance will then go after jumper and his family to recoup money to get boat fixed and girls medical expenses covered.

Can't call this an accident, since jumper knew he was breaking a law (trespassing) as soon as he walked into bridge. Call it a mistake by the jumper and hold him accountable for the damage he did. If you don't think the jumper needs to be held accountable for boat repair and more importantly the injured girls medical expenses, then IMO you are part of the problem of not holding people accountable for their actions!

 

[BHC Vic]

Just the opposite.

Jumper's medical insurance will ask how did you do this and launch investigation. Medical insurance will reject claim after discovering idiot jumped from a bridge that was posted with "Do Not Trespass" signage all over the place. Jumper will hire lawyer and have to go after railroad to try and cover medical expenses (most likely over 750k when done). Railroad will pressure appropriate LEO to charge jumper with trespassing so they can get lawsuit dismissed.

Then injured girls family will have to sue boat owners insurance to get her medical expenses covered (this part sucks). Boat owner insurance will then go after jumper and his family to recoup money to get boat fixed and girls medical expenses covered.

Can't call this an accident, since jumper knew he was breaking a law (trespassing) as soon as he walked into bridge. Call it a mistake by the jumper and hold him accountable for the damage he did. If you don't think the jumper needs to be held accountable for boat repair and more importantly the injured girls medical expenses, then IMO you are part of the problem of not holding people accountable for their actions!

Trust me I know all about being accountable for my actions. You're barking up the wrong tree

 

[McRib]

I don't think anything will happen. I think it was an accident

I'll guarantee there are a minimum of 20 ambulance chasing lawyers chomping at the bit to turn this "accident" into money.

 

[Ziggy]

I'm curious where in the span he jumped from. Center? More Az, or Ca side?

 

[Joker]

I'm curious where in the span he jumped from. Center? More Az, or Ca side?

He jumped from the edge and looked to be in the center.

 

[Ziggy]

He jumped from the edge and looked to be in the center.

Center span eh.[emoji19]
Then without a doubt he should have had spotters. Most jumpers I see are closer to the rope swing side.

 

[Joker]

Center span eh.[emoji19]
Then without a doubt he should have had spotters. Most jumpers I see are closer to the rope swing side.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BI0IJIojtqC/

I think this shows him towards the center if the link works

 

[Ziggy]

. The idiots you spoke of are exactly who we're targeting, we just need tools like this to increase our odds of finding them even when they are trying to hide from us. Thx.

Slightly off the thread topic but I was wondering if the missing guy from a few weeks back was found that disapeared from the same bridge supposedly jumping?

 

[Ziggy]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BI0IJIojtqC/

I think this shows him towards the center if the link works

[emoji15] [emoji37]
Good grief[emoji20]

 

[Joker]

Slightly off the thread topic but I was wondering if the missing guy from a few weeks back was found that disapeared from the same bridge supposedly jumping?

Yup, found dead.