Trans Question - Not Bud Light Kind

[ChiliPepperGarage]

No trans weirdos here.

I have a '71 El Camino, 425HP 454 GM Performance crate motor, 12 bolt with 4.10 gear and Turbo 400, 28" tall rear tires but might replace them and go down a couple inches.

I need an overdrive. I'm running about 4K RPM at 65. The Drag Week guys like to run Gear Vendors but the cost is $3200.

I could go with a 700R4 or 4L80. I think I'd prefer the 4L80 as it would be a stronger unit. Not sure where to source one though. I checked TCI and they get near $4K for one.

What say the inmates here? Which way to go and where to source a replacement?

 

[Fastdadtsmith]

My old boss built a '69 Chevelle with a 502 making an estimated 550 hp. Bowtie Overdrive in Hesperia build him a 700r4, and then another, and then another, and then another. Last I heard it was sitting on a lift in his office.

 

[monkeyswrench]

4l80 is the way. There are a couple standalone setups you can use, and even a full manual deal. The internals are the same as a 400, in terms of frictions and steels, can even put in the straight cuts out of HD's. Tunnel may need some mods though. You could find a later core with the better cooler paths, and have it built by a good trans guy.

 

[Riverbottom]

I abused a Gear Vendors for over 150,000 miles before I sold the truck. Pretty hard to beat a 400 and a Gear Vendors. I would pull the Indio grade towing under boost. I would split every gear at full throttle. Passed everyone in sight. Disclaimer: Never passed a 100 cars on Rice Road.

 

[monkeyswrench]

I abused a Gear Vendors for over 150,000 miles before I sold the truck. Pretty hard to beat a 400 and a Gear Vendors. I would pull the Indio grade towing under boost. I would split every gear at full throttle. Passed everyone in sight. Disclaimer: Never passed a 100 cars on Rice Road.

Gear Vendors seem to be pretty bullet proof. I don't think I've heard of one breaking unless something really stupid was done.

 

[Lumpy]

I abused a Gear Vendors for over 150,000 miles before I sold the truck. Pretty hard to beat a 400 and a Gear Vendors. I would pull the Indio grade towing under boost. I would split every gear at full throttle. Passed everyone in sight. Disclaimer: Never passed a 100 cars on Rice Road.

What he said…had a 33’Holliday Rambler 454/400/Gear Vendor towing a 1979 23’ SleekCraft Executive…ran that shit across the desert twice a year...
Pass anything but a gas station.

 

[Shlbyntro]

All youz guys are wrong. Tremec TKO

 

[Lumpy]

Gear Vendors seem to be pretty bullet proof. I don't think I've heard of one breaking unless something really stupid was done.

LOL! When ya overheat em they don't like to shift…just give her a few miles to cool down…figured that out on the Nipton Rd/Joshua Hwy 164. That grade climb outa Nipton up and over into Nevada in 2nd/vendor over was pure bliss.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

All youz guys are wrong. Tremec TKO

You spelled t56 Magnum incorrectly. This is RDP, only the most expensive option, paid for in cash is acceptable.

 

[Shlbyntro]

You spelled t56 Magnum incorrectly. This is RDP, only the most expensive option, paid for in cash is acceptable.

he only said he needed 1 OD though

 

[rivermobster]

I've had Leo at Remac build more than one trans for me that was well over three thousand dollars.

How much did you say a gear vendor is?

The one in my truck is bad azz.

 

[Baja 252]

I vote Gear Vendors, if you ever sell the car you can take it out and sell it or use it in your next car. No fitting a new transmission, shifter etc.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

he only said he needed 1 OD though

Who cares what he asked for, this is RDP. People ask what boat is best for them, the answer is always to buy 5 boats.

 

[HALLETT BOY]

If your doing 4K at 65 mph , a single OD trans will only drop it 500 rpm’s , I’d go at least 6 speed maybe 8 .

 

[Bugginout]

No trans weirdos here.

I have a '71 El Camino, 425HP 454 GM Performance crate motor, 12 bolt with 4.10 gear and Turbo 400, 28" tall rear tires but might replace them and go down a couple inches.

I need an overdrive. I'm running about 4K RPM at 65. The Drag Week guys like to run Gear Vendors but the cost is $3200.

I could go with a 700R4 or 4L80. I think I'd prefer the 4L80 as it would be a stronger unit. Not sure where to source one though. I checked TCI and they get near $4K for one.

What say the inmates here? Which way to go and where to source a replacement?

I bought my 4l80 from Jake’s in Texas. They have a great reputation especially for Drag and drive and drag racing. Mine was not cheap. I did go with the auto shift with a D1 trans brake. I’m using the US shift quick 4 controller. They built me a billet triple disk converter capable of WOT lock up. I would definitely give them a call.

 

[mash on it]

If your doing 4K at 65 mph , a single OD trans will only drop it 500 rpm’s , I’d go at least 6 speed maybe 8 .

More like 1100 rpm drop.

TH400 at 65 is ~3517 rpm.

4L80E with .75:1 OD at 65 is ~2398.5 rpm.

TH400 + Gear Vendors .778:1 OD at 65 is ~2736 rpm. (800 rpm drop)

Dan'l

 

[Gelcoater]

No trans weirdos here.

I have a '71 El Camino, 425HP 454 GM Performance crate motor, 12 bolt with 4.10 gear and Turbo 400, 28" tall rear tires but might replace them and go down a couple inches.

I need an overdrive. I'm running about 4K RPM at 65. The Drag Week guys like to run Gear Vendors but the cost is $3200.

I could go with a 700R4 or 4L80. I think I'd prefer the 4L80 as it would be a stronger unit. Not sure where to source one though. I checked TCI and they get near $4K for one.

What say the inmates here? Which way to go and where to source a replacement?

I think I’d lean towards the GV, but I have questions too.

As I do not know, are the first 3 gears in both of the trans you consider the same ratios as your current setup?
And, if they are different would it help or hurt your current setup when making a pass?

What is the weight of these trans vs the T400 you have now?
What’s the weight added by running the GV?
Which will weigh more is what I’m getting at here.

The trans in it now. Is it good? Need a rebuild soon? That alone could steer you in the direction of a trans swap.

 

[ChiliPepperGarage]

I think I’d lean towards the GV, but I have questions too.

As I do not know, are the first 3 gears in both of the trans you consider the same ratios as your current setup?
And, if they are different would it help or hurt your current setup when making a pass?

What is the weight of these trans vs the T400 you have now?
What’s the weight added by running the GV?
Which will weigh more is what I’m getting at here.

The trans in it now. Is it good? Need a rebuild soon? That alone could steer you in the direction of a trans swap.

I'm not drag racing the car. It is just a street car that I want to have a little fun with but still be able to drive to town (35 miles one way) and maybe some road trips of a couple hundred miles. I'd like to be able to cruise at 65 to 70 at around 2500 RPM.

I don't know the difference in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear ratios between the T400 and a 4L80. I don't think it really makes that much difference for my application.

There is nothing wrong with the T400 I have now. I do need to alter the shift kit that is in it though. It currently won't upshift until 4K RPM and when it does shift, it shifts pretty hard. It is fun to romp on it but not so great as a driver. I don't know the stall speed of the converter either.

If I replace it with a different trans, I'll use the T400 behind the 392 Hemi I'm putting in my '34 coupe so it won't go to waste.

 

[Gelcoater]

I'm not drag racing the car. It is just a street car that I want to have a little fun with but still be able to drive to town (35 miles one way) and maybe some road trips of a couple hundred miles. I'd like to be able to cruise at 65 to 70 at around 2500 RPM.

I don't know the difference in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear ratios between the T400 and a 4L80. I don't think it really makes that much difference for my application.

There is nothing wrong with the T400 I have now. I do need to alter the shift kit that is in it though. It currently won't upshift until 4K RPM and when it does shift, it shifts pretty hard. It is fun to romp on it but not so great as a driver. I don't know the stall speed of the converter either.

If I replace it with a different trans, I'll use the T400 behind the 392 Hemi I'm putting in my '34 coupe so it won't go to waste.

What about a simple axle ratio swap?

 

[monkeyswrench]

What about a simple axle ratio swap?

Because 4.11's are fun!

 

[hman442]

Might not matter in your application, but the 4L60 has a lower 1st gear than your T400. The 4L80 first is the same as your 400. Seems like the 700R4 trans, cable controlled, we're never adjusted "just right". I like the idea of the module controlled 4L60 & 80 better.

 

[gottaminute?]

I'm not drag racing the car. It is just a street car that I want to have a little fun with but still be able to drive to town (35 miles one way) and maybe some road trips of a couple hundred miles. I'd like to be able to cruise at 65 to 70 at around 2500 RPM.

I don't know the difference in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear ratios between the T400 and a 4L80. I don't think it really makes that much difference for my application.

There is nothing wrong with the T400 I have now. I do need to alter the shift kit that is in it though. It currently won't upshift until 4K RPM and when it does shift, it shifts pretty hard. It is fun to romp on it but not so great as a driver. I don't know the stall speed of the converter either.

If I replace it with a different trans, I'll use the T400 behind the 392 Hemi I'm putting in my '34 coupe so it won't go to waste.

you mentioned "converter". the 400 doesn't have a lock up converter like the 4l80. If it is a higher stall version, as you lower the rpm it will slip more, building heat. in a light load, non towing situation it may not matter but just something to consider. the newer controllers to run a 4l80 allow a lot of customization for shift points, harshness, converter slip when dropping into gear etc.

 

[Bugginout]

Also forgot to mention that the 4l80e may not fit into your trans tunnel without modification. The trans is bigger than a 400. Your cross member will have to move as well. The 4l80e weighs more than a 400. I wasn't recommending jake's because you were going to race your car. Only because they build a quality trans. TCI and some others have really become more of a mill of sorts that just turn out tons of products without the quality that they once had. Gear vendors are really good products as well. Whichever way you go I hope it turns out well.

 

[DRYHEAT]

I've had Leo at Remac build more than one trans for me that was well over three thousand dollars.

How much did you say a gear vendor is?

The one in my truck is bad azz.

Did he used to be on the corner of white and arrow Highway? That name sounds familiar.

 

[ChiliPepperGarage]

Because 4.11's are fun!

This! ^

 

[mjc]

since you are not going to race it(even if you did) I would go 700r4 with a rear gear change. The 700r4 has a lower first gear to go with high rear end to get launch back. The 700r4 does no need any computer to make it shift. I just got one out of a suburban with transfer case for $600 and am just going to bolt it in my 54 Willys wagon.

 

[Bugginout]

since you are not going to race it(even if you did) I would go 700r4 with a rear gear change. The 700r4 has a lower first gear to go with high rear end to get launch back. The 700r4 does no need any computer to make it shift. I just got one out of a suburban with transfer case for $600 and am just going to bolt it in my 54 Willys wagon.

This is a really good idea. This trans rebuilt with good parts will do everything you need.

 

[Bugginout]

The 4l80 or the gear vendor are the strongest options available.

 

[bonesfab]

4l80 Is my choice but a gear vendor would be the cheaper way. Gear vendor will require some floor massaging to fit. I am a dealer for gear vendor if you end up going that way.

 

[monkeyswrench]

If you should do a 700, either have the trans shop install it and set the cable, or get a good line pressure gauge to set up the throttle/valve cable. It's not hard to do if you have the gauge, just be sure to do it before it leaves the garage.

Without any form of traction adders or real sticky tires, a 700 may not be bad in an Elco. The tires will tend to break loose with 4.11's and street tires. That lessens the stress on the trans itself. If you plan on changing things for better launches, better to build a strong trans before it is needed though...been there, done that

 

[Bugginout]

If you should do a 700, either have the trans shop install it and set the cable, or get a good line pressure gauge to set up the throttle/valve cable. It's not hard to do if you have the gauge, just be sure to do it before it leaves the garage.

Without any form of traction adders or real sticky tires, a 700 may not be bad in an Elco. The tires will tend to break loose with 4.11's and street tires. That lessens the stress on the trans itself. If you plan on changing things for better launches, better to build a strong trans before it is needed though...been there, done that

Yes sir!

 

[ChiliPepperGarage]

If you should do a 700, either have the trans shop install it and set the cable, or get a good line pressure gauge to set up the throttle/valve cable. It's not hard to do if you have the gauge, just be sure to do it before it leaves the garage.

Without any form of traction adders or real sticky tires, a 700 may not be bad in an Elco. The tires will tend to break loose with 4.11's and street tires. That lessens the stress on the trans itself. If you plan on changing things for better launches, better to build a strong trans before it is needed though...been there, done that

Yeah, like I said, not a drag car. If it was, I'd just leave it like it is. I may tow my boat with it occasionally but it doesn't weight much (19' jet).

I like the idea of the 700 because I think they are fairly inexpensive and I don't think I'd have to hammer the trans tunnel for it to fit. Just modify the cross member and shorten the drive shaft.

The Gear Vendor would be easy as well although I'd probably pull the trans to install it. I have a 4 post lift so if I go that route I'd try to do the install while in the car. I'd want to change the shift kit in the T400 though. 4K RPM shifts are fun but a pain for just cruising around.

Any good sources for a 700r?

 

[Bugginout]

Yeah, like I said, not a drag car. If it was, I'd just leave it like it is. I may tow my boat with it occasionally but it doesn't weight much (19' jet).

I like the idea of the 700 because I think they are fairly inexpensive and I don't think I'd have to hammer the trans tunnel for it to fit. Just modify the cross member and shorten the drive shaft.

The Gear Vendor would be easy as well although I'd probably pull the trans to install it. I have a 4 post lift so if I go that route I'd try to do the install while in the car. I'd want to change the shift kit in the T400 though. 4K RPM shifts are fun but a pain for just cruising around.

Any good sources for a 700r?

Just remember what @monkeyswrench said about adjusting the TV cable with the 700r4 if you are doing it yourself.

 

[bonesfab]

Or Tci makes a constant pressure valve body that helps with the cable issue

 

[monkeyswrench]

Yeah, like I said, not a drag car. If it was, I'd just leave it like it is. I may tow my boat with it occasionally but it doesn't weight much (19' jet).

I like the idea of the 700 because I think they are fairly inexpensive and I don't think I'd have to hammer the trans tunnel for it to fit. Just modify the cross member and shorten the drive shaft.

The Gear Vendor would be easy as well although I'd probably pull the trans to install it. I have a 4 post lift so if I go that route I'd try to do the install while in the car. I'd want to change the shift kit in the T400 though. 4K RPM shifts are fun but a pain for just cruising around.

Any good sources for a 700r?

They are definitely less expensive to build, and decent cores are everywhere. There are a bunch of "GM Updates" to help them out, as well as aftermarket. They fit pretty well in a lot of the earlies. I don't really have a good source for builds...my guy is a retired GM trans guy, and literally does stuff in a barn. A lot of people out here use Hughes in Phoenix with good luck.

 

[rivermobster]

Did he used to be on the corner of white and arrow Highway? That name sounds familiar.

Pretty much. He closed that shop. Now he just has the one in Upland.

We built a 700hp LS at JMS and Leo built the trans. Ran and shifted flawless when it was done.