WELCOME TO RIVER DAVES PLACE

Tiger Will He or Will He Not.

Crazyhippy

Haters gonna Hate
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
6,971
Reaction score
5,783
26-1. Relief For Ball In Water Hazard
It is a question of fact whether a ball that has not been found after having been struck toward a water hazard is in the hazard. In the absence of knowledge or virtual certainty that a ball struck toward a water hazard, but not found, is in the hazard, the player must proceed under Rule 27-1.
If a ball is found in a water hazard or if it is known or virtually certain that a ball that has not been found is in the water hazard (whether the ball lies in water or not), the player may under penalty of one stroke:
a. Proceed under the stroke and distance provision of Rule 27-1 by playing a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or:

b. Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or

c. As additional options available only if the ball last crossed the margin of a lateral water hazard, drop a ball outside the water hazard within two club-lengths of and not nearer the hole than (i) the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard or (ii) a point on the opposite margin of the water hazard equidistant from the hole.
When proceeding under this Rule, the player may lift and clean his ball or substitute a ball.

THE DECISION
33-7. Disqualification Penalty; Committee Discretion
A penalty of disqualification may in exceptional individual cases be waived, modified or imposed if the Committee considers such action warranted.
Any penalty less than disqualification must not be waived or modified.
If a Committee considers that a player is guilty of a serious breach of etiquette, it may impose a penalty of disqualification under this Rule.

THE RATIONALE
33-7/4.5. Competitor Unaware of Penalty Returns Wrong Score; Whether Waiving or Modifying Disqualification Penalty Justified
Q. A competitor returns his score card. It later transpires that the score for one hole is lower than actually taken due to his failure to include a penalty stroke(s) which he did not know he had incurred. The error is discovered before the competition has closed.
Would the Committee be justified, under Rule 33-7, in waiving or modifying the penalty of disqualification prescribed in Rule 6-6d?
--Generally, the disqualification prescribed by Rule 6-6d must not be waived or modified.
However, if the Committee is satisfied that the competitor could not reasonably have known or discovered the facts resulting in his breach of the Rules, it would be justified under Rule 33-7 in waiving the disqualification penalty prescribed by Rule 6-6d. The penalty stroke(s) associated with the breach would, however, be applied to the hole where the breach occurred.

For example, in the following scenarios, the Committee would be justified in waiving the disqualification penalty:
-- A competitor makes a short chip from the greenside rough. At the time, he and his fellow-competitors have no reason to suspect that the competitor has double-hit his ball in breach of Rule 14-4. After the competitor has signed and returned his score card, a close-up, super-slow-motion video replay reveals that the competitor struck his ball twice during the course of the stroke. In these circumstances, it would be appropriate for the Committee to waive the disqualification penalty and apply the one-stroke penalty under Rule 14-4 to the competitor's score at the hole in question.

-- After a competitor has signed and returned his score card, it becomes known, through the use of a high-definition video replay, that the competitor unknowingly touched a few grains of sand with his club at the top of his backswing on a wall of the bunker. The touching of the sand was so light that, at the time, it was reasonable for the competitor to have been unaware that he had breached Rule 13-4. It would be appropriate for the Committee to waive the disqualification penalty and apply the two-stroke penalty to the competitor's score at the hole in question.

-- A competitor moves his ball on the putting green with his finger in the act of removing his ball-marker. The competitor sees the ball move slightly forward but is certain that it has returned to the original spot, and he plays the ball as it lies. After the competitor signs and returns his score card, video footage is brought to the attention of the Committee that reveals that the ball did not precisely return to its original spot. When questioned by the Committee, the competitor cites the fact that the position of the logo on the ball appeared to be in exactly the same position as it was when he replaced the ball and this was the reason for him believing that the ball returned to the original spot. As it was reasonable in these circumstances for the competitor to have no doubt that the ball had returned to the original spot, and because the competitor could not himself have reasonably discovered otherwise prior to signing and returning his score card, it would be appropriate for the Committee to waive the disqualification penalty. The two-stroke penalty under Rule 20-3a for playing from a wrong place would, however, be applied to the competitor's score at the hole in question.

A Committee would not be justified under Rule 33-7 in waiving or modifying the disqualification penalty prescribed in Rule 6-6d if the competitor's failure to include the penalty stroke(s) was a result of either ignorance of the Rules or of facts that the competitor could have reasonably discovered prior to signing and returning his score card.

For example, in the following scenarios, the Committee would not be justified in waiving or modifying the disqualification penalty:
-- As a competitor's ball is in motion, he moves several loose impediments in the area in which the ball will likely come to rest. Unaware that this action is a breach of Rule 23-1, the competitor fails to include the two-stroke penalty in his score for the hole. As the competitor was aware of the facts that resulted in his breaching the Rules, he should be disqualified under Rule 6-6d for failing to include the two-stroke penalty under Rule 23-1.

-- A competitor's ball lies in a water hazard. In making his backswing for the stroke, the competitor is aware that his club touched a branch in the hazard. Not realizing at the time that the branch was detached, the competitor did not include the two-stroke penalty for a breach of Rule 13-4 in his score for the hole. As the competitor could have reasonably determined the status of the branch prior to signing and returning his score card, the competitor should be disqualified under Rule 6-6d for failing to include the two-stroke penalty under Rule 13-4. (Revised)

Yup, I hate lawyers...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2
 

djunkie

Broke mo fo
Joined
Sep 24, 2007
Messages
32,821
Reaction score
4,275
Haters. I hope he wins it. LOL


Sent from my iPad using Tap That Ass
 

djunkie

Broke mo fo
Joined
Sep 24, 2007
Messages
32,821
Reaction score
4,275
X2, sadly he has a lot of ground to make up.

Ya. And he's gonna have to keep it in the fairway that's for sure. Playing around in the trees ain't gonna cut it.


Sent from my iPad using Tap That Ass
 

460

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
18,545
Reaction score
3,930
Haters. I hope he wins it. LOL


Sent from my iPad using Tap That Ass
Today isn't his day. But I bet you he wrecks shop the rest of the season.
 

Eli

Banned
Joined
Jun 6, 2012
Messages
3,798
Reaction score
851
Driving to SD can someone give me an update?
 

djunkie

Broke mo fo
Joined
Sep 24, 2007
Messages
32,821
Reaction score
4,275
Tigers out. -2 right. No way to catch up.
 

rvrmom

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
3,298
Reaction score
444
What happened to the young Asian kid? He choke?

Funny... the other day I said to Ryan.. hey come here... look this kid's only 14 and playing in the Master's. I said that could be you buddy. He said dead straight. Mommy you know that's not gonna happen LOL

I like Bubba but ... no dice
 

underpressure

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2008
Messages
2,266
Reaction score
1,686
Great finish! Loved it that Scott "won" it when Cabrera missed his birdie by an inch and Scott rolled it in for win!
 

BajaMike

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
6,402
Reaction score
3,267
Great Masters, but that Green Jacket thing makes me gag...I can't watch that shit. The whole "Butlers Cabin" thing is pretty gay. I can see a bunch of Atlanta boys "gettin together in the cabin". :)

Who would ever wear one of those "green jackets"??

It was a great golf match! In the rain and all.
 

Sleek-Jet

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
13,377
Reaction score
16,889
Great Masters, but that Green Jacket thing makes me gag...I can't watch that shit. The whole "Butlers Cabin" thing is pretty gay. I can see a bunch of Atlanta boys "gettin together in the cabin". :)

Who would ever wear one of those "green jackets"??

It was a great golf match! In the rain and all.

If I won that tournament and they handed me a big ass check and green jacket I'd wear the motherfucker every day. :D

That was a great final round.
 

Old Texan

Honorary Warden #377 Emeritus - R.I.P.
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
24,479
Reaction score
25,980
The saga continues on "The Drop"......The local Augusta Chronicle shows 2 pictures, original shot and 2nd shot, with Tiger basically in the same spot. In the heat of the moment it appears Tiger's drop was in the correct spot. Hmmmmmmm.....

His post round comments said without thinking may be what did him in as the better thought out pictures showing correct camera angles may prove that he actually dropped correctly no matter what his later thoughts on his intent.

Personally I think any after the fact "fan" spotted discrepancies should be ignored. The sport has officials on site and the player is in full view of his playing partner(s) who also monitor play and actions. TV cameras views are not at all accurate as far as depth perception and the relationship of divots, sprinkler heads, or other markers may not be within the context of reality. Also players not under constant camera view like Tiger have an advantage.

Too much has been made of this with many trying to make Tiger a bad guy and wrongly questioning his integrity. He did what the rules committee and officials told him to do and he gave no argument. He is at a disadvantage in the respect that no other golfer on the leader board at the time likely would have been analyzed and interviewed causing the same result on this one issue. Now from the Augusta Chronicle's work, we see that Tiger may have been wrongly penalized.


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/golf--...-deserved-a-two-stroke-penalty-204353354.html
 

Motor Boater

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
4,421
Reaction score
3,885
The saga continues on "The Drop"......The local Augusta Chronicle shows 2 pictures, original shot and 2nd shot, with Tiger basically in the same spot. In the heat of the moment it appears Tiger's drop was in the correct spot. Hmmmmmmm.....

His post round comments said without thinking may be what did him in as the better thought out pictures showing correct camera angles may prove that he actually dropped correctly no matter what his later thoughts on his intent.

Personally I think any after the fact "fan" spotted discrepancies should be ignored. The sport has officials on site and the player is in full view of his playing partner(s) who also monitor play and actions. TV cameras views are not at all accurate as far as depth perception and the relationship of divots, sprinkler heads, or other markers may not be within the context of reality. Also players not under constant camera view like Tiger have an advantage.

Too much has been made of this with many trying to make Tiger a bad guy and wrongly questioning his integrity. He did what the rules committee and officials told him to do and he gave no argument. He is at a disadvantage in the respect that no other golfer on the leader board at the time likely would have been analyzed and interviewed causing the same result on this one issue. Now from the Augusta Chronicle's work, we see that Tiger may have been wrongly penalized.


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/golf--...-deserved-a-two-stroke-penalty-204353354.html

Wrongfully penalized? Tiger said point blank he was wrong and made a mistake? He admitted to an incorrect drop so its not a conspiracy to keep the man down.
 

TPC

Wrenching Dad
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
31,865
Reaction score
25,840
Augusta is one bad ass course.
Hell of a lot tougher than it looks evidently.
How come no Blimp shots?
Tradition with golf isn't it?
 

Old Texan

Honorary Warden #377 Emeritus - R.I.P.
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
24,479
Reaction score
25,980
Wrongfully penalized? Tiger said point blank he was wrong and made a mistake? He admitted to an incorrect drop so its not a conspiracy to keep the man down.

My point is more about the cameras and interviews making him more visible than the unknown player who is anonymous until he plays into contention. Tiger made comments right after the round that may not have been accurate to what actually happened. His admission came later on and still may have been more self incriminating than factual. Plus he admitted after the fact of the event and was not of the opinion he'd committed a violation until well after the round and the calls came in. He did what he was told to do and obeyed the governing committee's decision. Yet many want his blood and insist his integrity is flawed because he didn't withdraw.

Did you bother to look at the Augusta Chronicle article? Did he really make an incorrect drop? Were his thoughts on going a yard or two back really accurate or was he saying he needed to take a couple yards off the shot? I maintain even he can't answer that question as it was a heat of the moment decision and from the appearance of the new photos, he very well did everything right instinctively.

My opinions here are far more objective than Nick Faldo who questioned Tiger's character and integrity on the early Saturday Golf Channel, than did a complete 180 on his views of the decision on the preround analysis on the CBS live broadcast......Maybe Faldo had a change of heart, or maybe the powerful Master's committee told him his opinions must not question the committee's ruling. Is anyone contesting Faldo's "integrity" for "following orders"?
 

Old Texan

Honorary Warden #377 Emeritus - R.I.P.
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
24,479
Reaction score
25,980
Augusta is one bad ass course.
Hell of a lot tougher than it looks evidently.
How come no Blimp shots?
Tradition with golf isn't it?

The Masters may not allow it. There have been years they did not allow any sponsors or advertisers for reasons of their own. Augusta National membership committee has control of everything.
 

Motor Boater

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
4,421
Reaction score
3,885
Agreed tiger gets more coverage than say Ricky fowler but that's part of the deal if your at the top and the biggest name in golf. As far as the drop yes I read the article and still don't understand the issue, if tiger says he screwed up, he admits he pulled the ball back 2 yards and tried to make the same swing, he admits he's seen the photos and says he was clearly behind the original spot. Tigers not mad about it, tiger doesn't think there's a conspiracy but everyone else insists there is???? He should be mad people are questioning his integrity because I agree the rules are flawed and all he is doing is following the rules and what the committee told him to do. The PGA has 2 conflicting rules and that's not tigers fault, they need to fix the rules.
 

Sleeper CP

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
2,725
Reaction score
31
What happened to the young Asian kid? He choke?[/B]

Funny... the other day I said to Ryan.. hey come here... look this kid's only 14 and playing in the Master's. I said that could be you buddy. He said dead straight. Mommy you know that's not gonna happen LOL

I like Bubba but ... no dice



Interesting....

The fact that the 14yr old was the only amateur to make the cut, there is no such thing as "choke". That kid kicked ass and Phl beat him by only 3 strokes and he beat 3 pro's.
 

Sleeper CP

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
2,725
Reaction score
31
My opinions here are far more objective than Nick Faldo who questioned Tiger's character and integrity on the early Saturday Golf Channel, than did a complete 180 on his views of the decision on the preround analysis on the CBS live broadcast......Maybe Faldo had a change of heart, or maybe the powerful Master's committee told him his opinions must not question the committee's ruling. Is anyone contesting Faldo's "integrity" for "following orders"?


I hear ya.


It was a great finish. Lots of class from the two

Jon
 

PVHCA

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
9,806
Reaction score
3,025
I'm no Tiger fan by any stretch, but he's head and shoulders better than any golfer playing. As for the drop issue, he had 3 options to play after the shot on 15, he chose for comfort level to go back to the original location, rules clearly state ball must be dropped as close to the original spot without going any closer to the hole. Most golfers cringe at this for fear of the ball coming to rest in the divot from the original shot. He dropped behind the original spot whether it be two feet or two yards it was against the rules and he knows the rules and if he didn't than he should have called his playing partner or an official over to verify. IMO he knowingly broke a rule and played the ignorance card and took advantage of the new ruling that doesn't DQ him after signing an incorrect card. An argument can easily be made but golf is about integrity and class, something IMO he lacks in on both stages.

One more thing, with all his money can't he get that front tooth fixed? I couldn't believe he's got a badly stained left front big tooth, LOL!!
 

Paul65k

Schiada Baby.......Yeah!!
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Messages
13,512
Reaction score
6,922
My opinions here are far more objective than Nick Faldo who questioned Tiger's character and integrity on the early Saturday Golf Channel, than did a complete 180 on his views of the decision on the pre-round analysis on the CBS live broadcast......Maybe Faldo had a change of heart, or maybe the powerful Master's committee told him his opinions must not question the committee's ruling. Is anyone contesting Faldo's "integrity" for "following orders"?
EXACTLY.....we probably all remember just how vindictive Augusta National can be as Gary McCord hasn't been welcome back to Augusta since his infamous "Bikini Wax" comment more than 10 years ago.

Faldo must have explained why he changed his position at least 10 times over the weekend. I saw his interview live on Saturday and he was ADAMANT that Tiger should DQ himself what a change by the time CBS went on the air!

At least Brandel Chamblee had the backbone to stick by his convictions and remain steadfast that Tiger should have DQ'd (Either voluntarily or by action of the Committee).

my .02
 

Sleeper CP

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
2,725
Reaction score
31
EXACTLY.....we probably all remember just how vindictive Augusta National can be as Gary McCord hasn't been welcome back to Augusta since his infamous "Bikini Wax" comment more than 10 years ago.

Faldo must have explained why he changed his position at least 10 times over the weekend. I saw his interview live on Saturday and he was ADAMANT that Tiger should DQ himself what a change by the time CBS went on the air!

At least Brandel Chamblee had the backbone to stick by his convictions and remain steadfast that Tiger should have DQ'd (Either voluntarily or by action of the Committee).

my .02


A rule is a rule. no one is asking the guys with long putters to DQ themselves today are they? When the rule changes they will have to.

I guess I'm one of those people who always read the rule as " no closer" not that you couldn't drop it back two feet or twenty feet if you wanted. :eek
 

Old Texan

Honorary Warden #377 Emeritus - R.I.P.
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
24,479
Reaction score
25,980
Agreed tiger gets more coverage than say Ricky fowler but that's part of the deal if your at the top and the biggest name in golf. As far as the drop yes I read the article and still don't understand the issue, if tiger says he screwed up, he admits he pulled the ball back 2 yards and tried to make the same swing, he admits he's seen the photos and says he was clearly behind the original spot. Tigers not mad about it, tiger doesn't think there's a conspiracy but everyone else insists there is???? He should be mad people are questioning his integrity because I agree the rules are flawed and all he is doing is following the rules and what the committee told him to do. The PGA has 2 conflicting rules and that's not tigers fault, they need to fix the rules.

Just one point I don't understand in your statements. What conspiracy? My whole point is it's a bad and unfair rule for golfers getting TV coverage to be susceptible to penalties others down the board are not because they aren't on national TV. You've brought up conspiracy twice and I have no idea whare that view comes from.

I have no issues with the result except it may not been a fair ruling if the spot was as depicted by the Augusta Chronicle. I'm discounting Tiger's statement after the round as this to was not part of the actual drop. And he has made no statement on the AC's photos, just the ones from ESPN/CBS. Other than that we're pretty much in agreement as I read your comments.

I don't know if you recall, but several years ago the Masters had live coverage without announcers. It was rather pleasant to see golf without the opinions of "experts" claiming to know what's going on in another golfers head.......I'd prefer Dave Feherty and Jim Nantz to give some color and a few calls than to get the inside tips from Faldo and Miller on how some guy misclubbed or misread a green 'cause he was looking at some pussy in the gallery and lost his line. Unless they flashed a shot at the pussy involved of course......;):skull
 

Paul65k

Schiada Baby.......Yeah!!
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Messages
13,512
Reaction score
6,922
A rule is a rule. no one is asking the guys with long putters to DQ themselves today are they? When the rule changes they will have to.

I guess I'm one of those people who always read the rule as " no closer" not that you couldn't drop it back two feet or twenty feet if you wanted. :eek
Except that the rule in question is NOT "No Closer" the rule in question is "As close as possible to the point where the original shot was played"......those are 2 different things.

I've already stated my position on the fact that there are 2 clear positions here and the Committee chose to take a stand to go with the new rule 33-7, so beit but it is anything but cut and dry here with regard to which rule prevails in any and all cases.

The cool thing about Golf is that there are books and books on the decisions that go along with the rules of golf, so it's not always cut and dry.
 
Last edited:
Top