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The Pardons are void

Mini Kat

Mini Kat

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I was watching a thing about that about a week ago and it was showing all of that when it was happening. And that particular pen was handed to a guy that was standing to the right side of Joe Biden as if it was his Handler. They also were doing comparison signatures to all the ones that were on the pardons and apparently the ones on the pardons were done with auto-pen.
 
Deckin Around

Deckin Around

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JL95 said:
Is this real or just bait
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It's real but Trump doesn't know about Biden's level of involvement, that's all speculation. To say "he didn't know anything about them" is reaching to a level where people see the falsity.

Sandlord said:
I think you might have meant to post this in the political section.
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It's a legal issue and we don't have that forum;)
 
Done-it-again

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Tank said:
Although, I agree with his sentiment 100%, I don't think the pardons are void just because Trump says so. lol Kind'a like half the shit he says, just because he says it, doesn't make it true.
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But they are looking at how many documents that were signed by autopen under Biden and who exactly was doing that. If Biden knew, he would have signed all documents himself.
 
Tank

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Done-it-again said:
But they are looking at how many documents that were signed by autopen under Biden and who exactly was doing that. If Biden knew, he would have signed all documents himself.
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Yeah, I get it. But there will have to be confirmation and an investigation. This is typical Trump fashion and one of the things people can't stand about him. Just throwing out "all pardons are void" is irresponsible and in fact not true...yet.

For the record, I have ZERO doubt he's right! I knew Biden was in full dementia when he was running for president and rapidly progressed into full blown Alzheimer half way through his presidency. anyone that has actually watched a family member or loved one suffer from that disease saw the tell tail signs immediately and without question from the moment he started campaigning. The stare, the gate, the speech, the moments of anger...Classic dementia / Alzheimer's stuff. NOTHING that guy did was actually him. We had a shell standing there and those around him were running the show with zero accountability.
 
530RL

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Done-it-again said:
But they are looking at how many documents that were signed by autopen under Biden and who exactly was doing that. If Biden knew, he would have signed all documents himself.
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Most all documents in government and the private sector are signed electronically now.

Just as the welfare checks during Covid with Trump's auto signed signature were perfectly valid, so are legal contracts, legislation and other official documents.

I can't remember the last time I manually signed a document. It is all electronic now.
 
Deckin Around

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Done-it-again said:
But they are looking at how many documents that were signed by autopen under Biden and who exactly was doing that. If Biden knew, he would have signed all documents himself.
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Agreed.
When the guy 3rd in line for the Presidency under Biden verifies the president was unaware of signing an executive order weeks earlier that was counterproductive to US interests, that can lead off the investigation.

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DILLIGAF

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Tank said:
Although, I agree with his sentiment 100%, I don't think the pardons are void just because Trump says so. lol Kind'a like half the shit he says, just because he says it, doesn't make it true.
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I think he has a tad bit more info than you...so there is that
 
Tank

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530RL said:
Most all documents in government and the private sector are signed electronically now.

Just as the welfare checks during Covid with Trump's auto signed signature were perfectly valid, so are legal contracts, legislation and other official documents.

I can't remember the last time I manually signed a document. It is all electronic now.
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Dude, come on, the issue isn't using an electric signature, the issue is the knowledge (or lack there of) of what it was used for and by whom.

DILLIGAF said:
I think he has a tad bit more info than you...so there is that
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Cool. Changes nothing of what I wrote.
 
530RL

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Tank said:
Dude, come on, the issue isn't using an electric signature, the issue is the knowledge (or lack there of) of what it was used for and by whom.
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Fine. Let’s look at the practical reality.

Pick a date at which one believes he lacked “knowledge”. And then invalidate every action he took subsequent to that time as one can not pick and choose.

Now think of all the government actions, all the government spending, all the contracts entered into and examine them for whether or not the legislation authorizing them was prior to or after this date of knowledge and the signing by him making them enforceable.

That isn’t going to happen and trying to prove it will be impossible as there will be plenty of witnesses that will testify he had knowledge.

America has some real problems to attend to, I’m not sure this should be high up on the action item list. 🤷
 
Deckin Around

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530RL said:
Most all documents in government and the private sector are signed electronically now.

Just as the welfare checks during Covid with Trump's auto signed signature were perfectly valid, so are legal contracts, legislation and other official documents.

I can't remember the last time I manually signed a document. It is all electronic now.
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I learned it's not an electronic sig that can be passed around and pasted on a PDF. It's a F'n machine holding a real pen doing a wet signed signature.
 
was thatguy

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530RL said:
Fine. Let’s look at the practical reality.

Pick a date at which one believes he lacked “knowledge”. And then invalidate every action he took subsequent to that time as one can not pick and choose.

Now think of all the government actions, all the government spending, all the contracts entered into and examine them for whether or not the legislation authorizing them was prior to or after this date of knowledge and the signing by him making them enforceable.

That isn’t going to happen and trying to prove it will be impossible as there will be plenty of witnesses that will testify he had knowledge.

America has some real problems to attend to, I’m not sure this should be high up on the action item list. 🤷
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So you just reworded the same reply you posted in the dungeon?
That it’s really not a high priority?
Pardoning criminal behavior while probably not knowing what planet you’re on?
Or more accurately, whomever has the pen just arbitrarily decides for the president, who doesn’t remember his own name?
Yeah, your right, nothing to see here…🙄

Strange departure from your “rule of law” gospel that you normally preach?
 
W

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was thatguy said:
So you just reworded the same reply you posted in the dungeon?
That it’s really not a high priority?
Pardoning criminal behavior while probably not knowing what planet you’re on?
Or more accurately, whomever has the pen just arbitrarily decides for the president, who doesn’t remember his own name?
Yeah, your right, nothing to see here…🙄

Strange departure from your “rule of law” gospel that you normally preach?
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The pretzel machine never stops.....it's on a .......roll.
 
Tank

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530RL said:
Fine. Let’s look at the practical reality.

Pick a date at which one believes he lacked “knowledge”. And then invalidate every action he took subsequent to that time as one can not pick and choose.

Now think of all the government actions, all the government spending, all the contracts entered into and examine them for whether or not the legislation authorizing them was prior to or after this date of knowledge and the signing by him making them enforceable.

That isn’t going to happen and trying to prove it will be impossible as there will be plenty of witnesses that will testify he had knowledge.

America has some real problems to attend to, I’m not sure this should be high up on the action item list. 🤷
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Lotta conjecture in that answer.

You think trying to prove it will be impossible? Ok.

Let me run a scenario by you since we're throwing out "pick a date" what-ifs:

Investigation into it and they call Biden to the stand to reflect on his memory of what was signed, when and why. yeah, how's that gonna pan out? I would conjecture myself, not so well.

Either way, you know and I know and EVERYONE knows, he had no clue WTF was going on, especially last year of his presidency. Does that null and void what his signature is on? I'll go back to my first post here....Not for Trump or anyone else to decide. It's for the courts and an investigation to decide.
 
regor

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Tank said:
Lotta conjecture in that answer.

You think trying to prove it will be impossible? Ok.

Let me run a scenario by you since we're throwing out "pick a date" what-ifs:

Investigation into it and they call Biden to the stand to reflect on his memory of what was signed, when and why. yeah, how's that gonna pan out? I would conjecture myself, not so well.

Either way, you know and I know and EVERYONE knows, he had no clue WTF was going on, especially last year of his presidency. Does that null and void what his signature is on? I'll go back to my first post here....Not for Trump or anyone else to decide. It's for the courts and an investigation to decide.
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The DOJ stated he didn't know what was going on and wouldn't stand trial for the classified documents he had, BUT he was clear enough to issue pardons!!! 🤣


Confused Biden .gif
 
530RL

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Tank said:
Lotta conjecture in that answer.

You think trying to prove it will be impossible? Ok.

Let me run a scenario by you since we're throwing out "pick a date" what-ifs:

Investigation into it and they call Biden to the stand to reflect on his memory of what was signed, when and why. yeah, how's that gonna pan out? I would conjecture myself, not so well.

Either way, you know and I know and EVERYONE knows, he had no clue WTF was going on, especially last year of his presidency. Does that null and void what his signature is on? I'll go back to my first post here....Not for Trump or anyone else to decide. It's for the courts and an investigation to decide.
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All fair points.

All I know is the under federal law there is a presumption of sound mind at the time of the act. Subsequent incapacitation is not relevant to a prior act. He could be a vegetable today, and that would not be relevant to his prior conduct. The burden of proof, assuming one could get by the standing issue, would be on the asserting party. Further, the party asserting incapacity must present substantial evidence of incapacitation and must also prove that the signing was not made during a lucid interval. Establishing incapacity goes beyond a showing of extreme sickness or old age, and would require, for example, insane delusion.

We all remember the liberals trying to do the same thing with Reagan. It was simply unsuccessful.

Maybe this works, who knows? But no matter what the ruling, America is being instructed by its leadership to ignore court decisions or orders one disagrees with, so it will solve nothing. 🤷‍♂️


 
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R

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I think your effective date could easily be stated as that June debate. 49% of the country already thought he was gone before that. The other 50.9999% figured it out that night.

Anything after that, that did not have the overwhelming support of the legislature, well..
 
lbhsbz

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530RL said:
All fair points.

All I know is the under federal law there is a presumption of sound mind at the time of the act. Subsequent incapacitation is not relevant to a prior act. He could be a vegetable today, and that would not be relevant to his prior conduct. The burden of proof, assuming one could get by the standing issue, would be on the asserting party. Further, the party asserting incapacity must present substantial evidence of incapacitation and must also prove that the signing was not made during a lucid interval. Establishing incapacity goes beyond a showing of extreme sickness or old age, and would require, for example, insane delusion.

We all remember the liberals trying to do the same thing with Reagan. It was simply unsuccessful.

Maybe this works, who knows? But no matter what the ruling, America is being instructed by its leadership to ignore court decisions or orders one disagrees with, so it will solve nothing. 🤷‍♂️


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So, from the day that the decision was made that he was unfit to stand trial....everything that happened after that?
 
530RL

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lbhsbz said:
So, from the day that the decision was made that he was unfit to stand trial....everything that happened after that?
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I think you should take a look at that report yourself.

If anything the report would be to the benefit of his defense as it actually lays out facts and conclusions of law that could be used to demonstrate that he did not in fact meet the legal definition of incapacitated, but was an old forgetful man.
 
was thatguy

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530RL said:
I think you should take a look at that report yourself.

If anything the report would be to the benefit of his defense as it actually lays out facts and conclusions of law that could be used to demonstrate that he did not in fact meet the legal definition of incapacitated, but was an old forgetful man.
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You just can’t do it, can you?
 
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