"The" Life Jacket Debate thread - Videos / Pics / etc..

[RiverDave]

So everytime someone posts a vid and their hauling ass and not wearing a life jacket.. There are people that make comments in both directions. Those saying bad example for others, and then guys like me saying live your own life..

So this is the thread to have it out.. and in the future when those vids are posted, and those comments are made, we'll bounce them into this thread to maintain the "integrity" of the original thread..

Sleeper CP, would you care to start us off?

RD

 

[rivermobster]

So the rest of us have to wait until sleeper posts??

This thread sux....

:thumbsdown

 

[RiverDave]

So the rest of us have to wait until sleeper posts??

This thread sux....

:thumbsdown

Have at it.. I remember you had something to say?

RD <---- loading both barrels

 

[Sleeper CP]

Sure.

I believe that people have the right to do what they want. They have the right to do stupid things and die and I really wouldn't give a rats fat ass about it one way or another. I'd guess that a boat doing 160+ broke a drive or something drastic happened the boat could end-up crashing and a life vest won't much save you; it will however be easier on the rescue people to find your body.

If for no other reason than having enough of you found so your family can bury your stupid ass you should use the proper safety equipment. If safety equipment isn't effective then anyone should be able to show up at the Parker 400 or the Catalina Race and just go for it should they not ?

You may notice the Life-Line I'm wearing in my sig picture. I don't always wear it, but at the TPR deal in '08 I had just got done racing a friend and then did a few circle track laps. I kept the vest on because that water was damn cold and if I got thrown out I'd at least float.


S CP

 

[RiverDave]

Sleeper CP I want to take a look at a portion of your post here, not arguing the effectiveness of a life jacket, but something much simpler.

If for no other reason than having enough of you found so your family can bury your stupid ass------> you should use <---------the proper safety equipment. If safety equipment isn't effective then anyone should be able to show up at the Parker 400 or the Catalina Race and just go for it should they not ?

Do you see the relatively simple problem here?

RD

 

[Sleeper CP]

Do you see the relatively simple problem here?

RD

I don't see a problem, but as of yet vests aren't mandated but knowing government bureaucracies I could see it coming if a few people ended up dead and under 200' of water and can't be found.

People are not just putting their own lives at a higher risk but they are putting the free choices of others at risk. More than likely people would still be able to smoke at the beach if most smokers weren't such filthy idiots and left their sig butts behind. Now someone like me can't even enjoy a nice cigar on the beach. Same thing could/will happen here.

S CP

 

[rivermobster]

Have at it.. I remember you had something to say?

RD <---- loading both barrels

Already aiming at me eh???

Are we debating the current laws?

Or common sense??

 

[Tom Brown]

People are not just putting their own lives at a higher risk but they are putting the free choices of others at risk.

Are you suggesting we should all conform to the wishes of the authorities to maintain our freedoms?

More than likely people would still be able to smoke at the beach if most smokers weren't such filthy idiots and left their sig butts behind. Know someone like me can't even enjoy a nice cigar on the beach.

You're a smoker but don't consider yourself part of the smoking problem? Wake up, CP.

 

[RiverDave]

Already aiming at me eh???

Are we debating the current laws?

Or common sense??

Whatever your pleasure..

RD

 

[RiverDave]

I don't see a problem, but as of yet vests aren't mandated but knowing government bureaucracies I could see it coming if a few people ended up dead and under 200' of water and can't be found.

People are not just putting their own lives at a higher risk but they are putting the free choices of others at risk. More than likely people would still be able to smoke at the beach if most smokers weren't such filthy idiots and left their sig butts behind. Now someone like me can't even enjoy a nice cigar on the beach. Same thing could/will happen here.

S CP

Stupid laws get put on the books, when it becomes socially acceptable for people to tell other people how to live.. I.E. Seat Belt law.

"You should wear your seatbelt, blah blah"

Some politician.. You know we oughta make that a law?

Now whamo.. loss of freedom.

RD

 

[Yellowboat]

Stupid laws get put on the books, when it becomes socially acceptable for people to tell other people how to live.. I.E. Seat Belt law.

"You should wear your seatbelt, blah blah"

Some politician.. You know we oughta make that a law?

Now whamo.. loss of freedom.

RD

RD, driving ( and boating for that matter) is NOT a right.


My $.02 on this subject, and others like helmets on bikes and seat belts is simple.

its your choice, but if you get hurt and that safety device could have helped/saved you. You get zero help from the goverment. ZERO, no medical bill help, no disablity, no nothing.

 

[akakiller]

I dont wear a vest in my boat. We do have the little ones wear em though... law or not, if you can't swim it makes sense to wear one.

But then again, no one has accused my boat of "hauling ass" either...

 

[Sleeper CP]

Are you suggesting we should all conform to the wishes of the authorities to maintain our freedoms?

Suggesting that the use of common sense goes along way. I've been on motorcycle rides (dirt bikes) where some idiot has decided he didn't want to wear a helmet because we were just riding single track and not going fast. I've ridden dirt bikes with some for the best ever, they always wear helmets.

You're a smoker but don't consider yourself part of the smoking problem? Wake up, CP.

I smoke maybe 6-12 cigars a year and don't leave them behind. No I'm not part of the problem.

S CP

 

[Tom Brown]

I smoke maybe 6-12 cigars a year and don't leave them behind. No I'm not part of the problem.

Do you make any smoke with these cigars?

 

[Sleeper CP]

its your choice, but if you get hurt and that safety device could have helped/saved you. You get zero help from the goverment. ZERO, no medical bill help, no disablity, no nothing.

You'd get help being an organ donor.

S CP

 

[Yellowboat]

I dont wear a vest in my boat. We do have the little ones wear em though... law or not, if you can't swim it makes sense to wear one.

But then again, no one has accused my boat of "hauling ass" either...

If you can't swim, I'm not letting you on my boat, vest or not.

If something does happen, bad things are going to happen. You could die, you could also pull some one else under with you.

 

[Nordie]

I think it is all preference...i never wear my vest at all, but now with more hp, and knowing my boat can easily pitch me ill probably wear a vest on passes...but like i said that's me! Im not gonna be the one at the beach telling people to wear a vest, nor judge them on it! now if i see your 12 and under child w/out a vest i'll probably judge you as a parent

 

[SHEP]

I am a believer in letting people live as they please. If someone wants to go WOT by himself without a life jacket then have at it. However, if that same guy has a few passengers in his boat before he puts the wood to it he should at least give said passengers the option to put on some jackets. I try not to people my passengers in harms way as much as possible but then again we have a hamster on a wheel for a motor so........:blah:


SHEP

 

[Yellowboat]

You'd get help being an organ donor.

S CP

Ok thats fine, take the organs, but don't bother to sow them back up.

 

[Sleeper CP]

Do you make any smoke with these cigars?

Since I don't smoke at ball games or crowded areas when I do smoke I really don't see it as an issue. It could be to some ....... but then again the crap that's playing on most the kids Boom-boxes is far more offensive than a little smoke.

The biggest reason listed for banning smoking on San Diego beaches was because of the trash not "second hand smoke"

S CP

 

[Tom Brown]

People enjoy my music. I'll play it as loud as I damn well please. My boom box isn't a problem.

 

[500bbc]

Common sense 80+ = Lifeline.

Quick mash of the pedal and lift at least a ski vest (good one).

 

[Nordie]

This is the vest i am looking at getting, not a lifeline, but my jet will probably be just cracking 80...i figure better then nothing

http://www.mustangsurvival.com/products/product.php?id=407&mc=10

 

[Just Electric]

id like to ad a note if you dont have a vest at least have a kill switch lanyard so if you do get pitched who cares if you drown but i dont need your boat to come crashing into shore at me or my boat:skull

 

[Motor Boater]

I agree that the life jacket will not save you at 170 mph but on an average day in this boat I bet you only 3% of the running time would be at those kinds of speeds. I bet 70% of your time would be running anywhere from 80 ? 120 mph and who knows maybe the life jacket does save your life at that speed. Either way I think it?s a personal choice if you wear one or not. Personally I think it?s more important to wear a lanyard so nobody else gets killed by a runaway boat if you get pitched.

 

[RitcheyRch]

That looks like a nice vest.

This is the vest i am looking at getting, not a lifeline, but my jet will probably be just cracking 80...i figure better then nothing

http://www.mustangsurvival.com/products/product.php?id=407&mc=10

 

[Just Electric]

i run both but many times im without my jacket but atleast tie the saftey lanyard to my trunks so if and when it happens the innocent peeps dont get my rath plus the boat wont run without it so its a good reminder to clip to my trunks

 

[Kylemenz1]

Can someone please explain what exactly a "Lifeline" is. Thanks

 

[Just Electric]

Can someone please explain what exactly a "Lifeline" is. Thanks

http://www.lifelinejackets.com/
just a proven life vest that helps save lives i have ind love it

 

[spectras only]

Sure.
I kept the vest on because that water was damn cold and if I got thrown out I'd at least float.


S CP

Agree with sleeper on this one.

You can do whatever you want with your life .Noone can stop you commiting suicide if you're serious about it :skull .
The groups argument about the uselesness of a lifejacket maybe true if you're boating on the edge over 100 mph all the time. You don't have to travel those speeds to be knocked out if you're thrown from the boat or falling off a ski or tube at 50 or even 40 mph .Don't think it's legal to waterski without one in any state ! Water doesn't compress and it can knock the wind out of your lungs pretty quick.
Case in point ; years ago my son was tubing on Skaha Lake with friends and in one sharp turn the inertia thrown him off . He didn't wave that he's OK and we quickly turned around to pick him up. He was unconcious and would have sunk without a life jacket before we could reach him .
Not many could dive to the depths of our lakes to save someone :hmm

Also ,I wear the safety laynards all the time ! If I fall out of my boat with inexperienced guests ,they might panic and wouldn't even think of turning the ignition off. Toyota Prius syndrome ,lol!

 

[500bbc]

Can someone please explain what exactly a "Lifeline" is. Thanks

http://www.v-driveboat.com/showthread.php?4030-Echo-Lodge-2011

They make racing certified Lifejackets some with 'chutes, also "Poker Run" Jackets.

 

[Kylemenz1]

Thanks!

 

[footer]

Freedom. I wear a helmet 99.9% of the time on motorcycles, but I appreciate the fact that in WI I can legally get on a bike without one once in a while.

What's riskier and costlier, to both the individual and society, the occasional high speed boat ride without the latest safety devices, or a lifetime spent on the couch eating crap?

Tax the fat.

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

To each his own, as long as the person deciding not to wear one has health insurance then I am ok with it, otherwise I prefer not to fund the organ donation harvesting costs with my tax dollars.

My wife and I bought matching LifeLines last year for Desert Storm. We both like wearing them when we decide to crank it up, and she loves the way it keeps her :boobeyes: from bouncing at high speeds.

 

[sirbob]

RD, driving ( and boating for that matter) is NOT a right.


My $.02 on this subject, and others like helmets on bikes and seat belts is simple.

its your choice, but if you get hurt and that safety device could have helped/saved you. You get zero help from the goverment. ZERO, no medical bill help, no disablity, no nothing.

Yellow - you seem to have taken a position that makes your arguments look simple and a matter of black or white, yes or no. But these issues are not that simple.

My vote is wear one (vest, seat belt, helmet etc) or not its your choice. Period.

When you start saying things like - but if you get hurt and that safety device could have helped/saved you. You get zero help from the goverment -

Who is going to make that determination - I'll give you an example - (and I don't need to hear the I'm sorry replies this is not about that) - many years ago my brother was killed in a car accident when the Chevy blazer he was driving rolled over. He was wearing his seat belt. The girl in the back seat was wearing her seat belt and also died. The friend of his that was sitting in the front seat lived, he was not wearing his seat belt and was thrown from the truck out the window.

My point is its not always a simple as assuming that if you have you safety device on you would be better off - in this case the guy not wearing his seat belt lived because he was not wearing his seat belt.

Would this be the case in the majority of accidents? I would assume that statistics would prove this not to be the case - but in this case it was.

My point here is simply that these things are not simple black and white issues - and that is why I think the choice needs to go to the individual. I recognize that you are saying - its your choice - but you also put a qualifier on it that you would not receive certain benefits etc - I disagree with that.

I look forward to hearing other points of view.

 

[That Guy]

Freedom. I wear a helmet 99.9% of the time on motorcycles, but I appreciate the fact that in WI I can legally get on a bike without one once in a while.

What's riskier and costlier, to both the individual and society, the occasional high speed boat ride without the latest safety devices, or a lifetime spent on the couch eating crap?

Tax the fat.

You have to admit, that was funny....arty::skull

 

[Jet-Daytona]

In Arizona whenever a person dies in an accident they always make a point to say he was not wearing his seat belt,but never the other way around.

 

[Yellowboat]

It is black and white, you made a choice, the result of the choice was bad. You need to own up to that choice. I see no diffrence in this choice and a choice like saying "screw work i'm sleeping in" then getting fired becuase of it. Same thing, you should get no goverment help if that happens.

Yes, there is the odd story of some one not wearing a seat belt and being thrown clean and be ok, but there are many, many more storys out there where people were killed in low speed crashs becuase they didn't wear thier seat belt.

 

[OutCole'd]

Freedom. I wear a helmet 99.9% of the time on motorcycles, but I appreciate the fact that in WI I can legally get on a bike without one once in a while.

What's riskier and costlier, to both the individual and society, the occasional high speed boat ride without the latest safety devices, or a lifetime spent on the couch eating crap?

Tax the fat.

I'm clearly against this, I pay enough in taxes.

 

[Blubyu]

My view or at least in my boat is if we are doing any WOT runs not that my boat is in the 100+mph range but I can do 80+ is who ever is in it well have a vest on that's just my rule. Just cruising around I normally don't wear it but do have it out hanging on the back of my seat.

 

[AZJD]

I will say one thing! Having been in a few poker runs in some very big and fast boats, wearing life lines in bucket seats (suck as the ones found in skaters, spectre's and MTI's) and trying to see around you is IMPOSSIBLE! Therefore, lifelines are making it more dangerous and increasing the probability of an accident!!!

I adamantly believe that half the cut offs at high speed are due to lack of ability to see your surroundings.

 

[rivermobster]

There are 2 issues Dave.

The first is the illusion that you are actually free to do as you want. This is a false illusion. Break the speed limit? Your gonna pay. Make too much noise? Your gonna pay. Dont renew your drivers licence, your insurance? Your gonna pay. Dont make your house, boat, gas bill or credit card payments? Your gonna pay. Everything we do in this world is governed. In reality, we have absolutely no freedoms at all!!! Go take a dump on the sidewalk and see what that gets you. You cannot do what you want. Its all a well crafted illusion.

The other issue is, IF you do what you want (in this case, not wearing a life jacket at speed), your not only affecting yourself, but everyone that knows you, and/or will have to take care of you, after you distroy yourself. Joe blow doesnt wanna wear his saftey equipment. He gets in a situation that he woulda survived easily with it, and now he's a vegatable. Do you wanna pay his doctor bills Dave? I sure as fuck dont, i got enough bills of my own!!!

If your under the illusion that your actions Do Not affect anyone but you, now would be a good time to wake up.

 

[Some Kind Of Monster]

"Those who give up their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty nor security."

This quote can be tied into this debate.

If you don't want to wear a jacket, why should I care?

That said, if I'm running it hard, the jacket is always on. I usually have it on regardless, but I do appreciate the fact that I can cruise without it on when it's 115 degrees out too. I like my freedom, don't try to take it from me.

 

[AZJD]

There are 2 issues Dave.

The first is the illusion that you are actually free to do as you want. This is a false illusion. Break the speed limit? Your gonna pay. Make too much noise? Your gonna pay. Dont renew your drivers licence, your insurance? Your gonna pay. Dont make your house, boat, gas bill or credit card payments? Your gonna pay. Everything we do in this world is governed. In reality, we have absolutely no freedoms at all!!! Go take a dump on the sidewalk and see what that gets you. You cannot do what you want. Its all a well crafted illusion.

The other issue is, IF you do what you want (in this case, not wearing a life jacket at speed), your not only affecting yourself, but everyone that knows you, and/or will have to take care of you, after you distroy yourself. Joe blow doesnt wanna wear his saftey equipment. He gets in a situation that he woulda survived easily with it, and now he's a vegatable. Do you wanna pay his doctor bills Dave? I sure as fuck dont, i got enough bills of my own!!!

If your under the illusion that your actions Do Not affect anyone but you, now would be a good time to wake up.

That bill doesn't come directly to your house. You will never know the difference if 20 people are injured or saved by life vest when it comes to your pocket book.

 

[Tom Brown]

There are 2 issues Dave.

The first is the illusion that you are actually free to do as you want. This is a false illusion. Break the speed limit? Your gonna pay. Make too much noise? Your gonna pay. Dont renew your drivers licence, your insurance? Your gonna pay. Dont make your house, boat, gas bill or credit card payments? Your gonna pay. Everything we do in this world is governed. In reality, we have absolutely no freedoms at all!!! Go take a dump on the sidewalk and see what that gets you. You cannot do what you want. Its all a well crafted illusion.

The other issue is, IF you do what you want (in this case, not wearing a life jacket at speed), your not only affecting yourself, but everyone that knows you, and/or will have to take care of you, after you distroy yourself. Joe blow doesnt wanna wear his saftey equipment. He gets in a situation that he woulda survived easily with it, and now he's a vegatable. Do you wanna pay his doctor bills Dave? I sure as fuck dont, i got enough bills of my own!!!

If your under the illusion that your actions Do Not affect anyone but you, now would be a good time to wake up.

... so you're saying we live in a police state because we aren't free to shit on the sidewalk?

 

[oldschool]

Well, if you boat on Pine Flat lake this summer EVERYONE is required to wear a lifejacket. It is one of two lakes, don't know what the other is, that is a "test" lake for this. BULLSHIT IMO.
I feel that people should have the freedom to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't affect others. The thing is, like rivermobster said, that just about everything you do does or can affect others.

 

[Lavey29]

Stupid laws get put on the books, when it becomes socially acceptable for people to tell other people how to live.. I.E. Seat Belt law.

"You should wear your seatbelt, blah blah"

Some politician.. You know we oughta make that a law?

Now whamo.. loss of freedom.

RD

I believe the intent of the seatbelt law was based on statistical studies of accidents with and without seatbelts. A determination was made that injury was more likely to happen without seatbelts and this results in insurance money being paid out for medical care, lawsuits, car repair, etc... All this ends up in reflecting in higher insurance premiums for all of us, so by requiring the seatbelts which have been proven to help limit injuries in accidents, it is hoped that insurance premiums for everyone will not keep increasing to cover the payouts.

Not enough boat accidents to warrant madatory vests (except for minors) but common sense would dictate when you might want to consider wearing one especially if you have a very fast 100mph plus boat. It is of course a personal choice at this point. I don't wear one in my boat but I am not running in the triple digits either. My kid always have theirs on and I make it a point to never go over 65-70 when I have my family on board.

 

[oldschool]

... so you're saying we live in a police state because we aren't free to shit on the sidewalk?

I think he's saying that "your free to shit on the sidewalk" but shitting on the sidewalk may not be free.

 

[akakiller]

so you dont let kids on your boat??? Toddlers?

I will say the speeds are quite a bit different when kids are in the boats vs. by myself.

If you can't swim, I'm not letting you on my boat, vest or not.

If something does happen, bad things are going to happen. You could die, you could also pull some one else under with you.

 

[coz]

Stupid laws get put on the books, when it becomes socially acceptable for people to tell other people how to live.. I.E. Seat Belt law.

"You should wear your seatbelt, blah blah"

Some politician.. You know we oughta make that a law?

Now whamo.. loss of freedom.

RD

I know you're opposed to the seat belt laws from this and other posts but it's time to stop worrying about what RD wants and worry about what that new baby's gonna need.....a Dad. Seat belts DO save lives and It would suck real bad if something happened to you because you weren't wearing your belt and that child lost a father because he wanted his freedom :thumbsdown Just say'n