The great Debate Gas VS Diesel.

[petie6464]

Asking if there is a gas diesel debate raises concern within itself.

There is no further debate as a V-8 diesel is as a retarded answer to an even simpler question. The emissions have been the achilles heal to all moden diesel engines, however they have made headway.. Continued issue are more component quality failure related than design.

Cummins is the only answer. They are easy to work on, their emission system is a simple one and easily diagnosed and repaired. The engine isn't even an conversation point.

If you're not able to DIY well you're at the mercy of a sea of morons and you will take a beating even with the simplest of issues, knowledge is key.

 

[pronstar]

i think some of the “disappointment” in the GM 6.6 compared to the Vortec 8100 is the torque curve.

They make comparable torque…but the 8.1 makes peak torque at 3200 rpm. The 6.6L, like every LS/LT, has to rev and it doesn’t peak until 4K rpm…which is the hp peak for the 8.1

When most folks thing about “big block” V8 performance, they want torque at lower rpm.

The fact is, most folks aren’t comfortable towing with the motor spinning at 4K+ rpm for extended periods of time, even if that’s what it’s designed to do. The motor just feels less powerful because its working harder to make peak numbers.

 

[COCA COLA COWBOY]

Diesel rules! Gas sucks! Nuff Said!

 

[monkeyswrench]

i think some of the “disappointment” in the GM 6.6 compared to the Vortec 8100 is the torque curve.

They make comparable torque…but the 8.1 makes peak torque at 3200 rpm. The 6.6L, like every LS/LT, has to rev and it doesn’t peak until 4K rpm…which is the hp peak for the 8.1

When most folks thing about “big block” V8 performance, they want torque at lower rpm.

The fact is, most folks aren’t comfortable towing with the motor spinning at 4K+ rpm for extended periods of time, even if that’s what it’s designed to do. The motor just feels less powerful because its working harder to make peak numbers.

It was an odd feeling, driving a customer's loaded utility truck with a 6.6. The gear split is fast, but almost seamless. Being used to old school diesels, power below 2k, this thing was at 4k every shift. Loud exhaust on them would get old fast, like headers and glass packs on an old Class A coach.

 

[Cdog]

I suppose if you have to ask you probably don’t need a diesel.

Life for many isn’t about needs though. It’s about wants.

I really like the diesels I have owned. Seems like everything has its problems today. Lifters in the 7.3 gas. Cp4’s. Lifters in the GM gas engines. The theoretical scenario versus the actual.

 

[Your ad here]

I suppose if you have to ask you probably don’t need a diesel.

Life for many isn’t about needs though. It’s about wants.

I really like the diesels I have owned. Seems like everything has its problems today. Lifters in the 7.3 gas. Cp4’s. Lifters in the GM gas engines. The theoretical scenario versus the actual.

You said it well. A lot of stuff in life is about wants. If you have to ask, you probably don't need it... Everything does have its problems. It's the solutions you want to worry about.

 

[pronstar]

It was an odd feeling, driving a customer's loaded utility truck with a 6.6. The gear split is fast, but almost seamless. Being used to old school diesels, power below 2k, this thing was at 4k every shift. Loud exhaust on them would get old fast, like headers and glass packs on an old Class A coach.

They remind my of my old Gixxer 600…banging off super-fast shifts in rapid succession.

I’d like to check out a 5.3/10-speed combo, I bet that would be a sweet setup for most folks.

One thing I’m seeing anectdotaly, Ford owners seem to have a lot of trouble with the 10-speed…GM owners don’t seem to be reporting trouble?

 

[dribble]

I bought my 2007 5.9 Cummins in with 22K mikes 2009 for 27K. I will not get rid of that pickup. It has 144K now. The only repair I’ve done is an A/C clutch coil for $39.00. The rest is brakes, oil changes and fuel filters (every 15K religiously). The truck has been an ultra reliable workhorse.

 

[hallett21]

Also it’s seems like trucks that drive 5 out of 7 days for 100+ miles a day do just fine. Modern diesels need to work and get hot.

The biggest problems seem to come from people who let the truck sit for weeks and then hook 20k lbs and hit the road.

 

[ChrisV]

I love my 2005 Duramax, but after this weekend it struggled hard going up the grapevine. About 12-13k loaded. Would love to get a 2018 LP5. Of course it will be deleted. Who keeps stuff stock?

 

[hallett21]

I love my 2005 Duramax, but after this weekend it struggled hard going up the grapevine. About 12-13k loaded. Would love to get a 2018 LP5. Of course it will be deleted. Who keeps stuff stock? View attachment 1311877

Me! Lol.

 

[Xring01]

They remind my of my old Gixxer 600…banging off super-fast shifts in rapid succession.

I’d like to check out a 5.3/10-speed combo, I bet that would be a sweet setup for most folks.

One thing I’m seeing anectdotaly, Ford owners seem to have a lot of trouble with the 10-speed…GM owners don’t seem to be reporting trouble?

I owned a 5.3/8 speed for 18 months… no problems what so ever.
When I was shopping…. The Chevy forums lead me to believe the 8 speed had more issues than the 10 speed. But neither was perfect.

I bought during CV timeframe when there was zero inventory. If I wanted 5.3 4x4… I had two choices in all of SoCal at the time. Black 5.3/8sp or a Chili Pepper Red 5.3/8sp… I hate black vehicles when you live in the desert. Owe hell no. I went with the red one. If I wanted a 4 cyl turbo or the 3.0 Diesel, there where alot more avialable. But I ruled both of them out for different reasons.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

They remind my of my old Gixxer 600…banging off super-fast shifts in rapid succession.

I’d like to check out a 5.3/10-speed combo, I bet that would be a sweet setup for most folks.

One thing I’m seeing anectdotaly, Ford owners seem to have a lot of trouble with the 10-speed…GM owners don’t seem to be reporting trouble?

If I get a GMC next it will be a 5.3 10 speed deal. Seems pretty nice.

 

[PlanB]

5.3 / 10 speed is a nice combo. It works well.

 

[Cdog]

I love my 2005 Duramax, but after this weekend it struggled hard going up the grapevine. About 12-13k loaded. Would love to get a 2018 LP5. Of course it will be deleted. Who keeps stuff stock? View attachment 1311877

I jumped from a tricked out 06 LBZ to a 21 F350. They're not even in the same zip code. The F350 feels twice as powerful when towing. Way less stress while towing. It will go as fast as you want to spend your fuel milage. 60-65 up and over the grapevine towing 18k no problem. Pulls like a beast.

 

[monkeyswrench]

One thing I’m seeing anectdotaly, Ford owners seem to have a lot of trouble with the 10-speed…GM owners don’t seem to be reporting trouble?

I really think it's something in the programming, mixed with the vehicle options. I've run into two Chevy cutaways that have had trans gremlins...but not one "truck". It's really odd.

I think a lot of people never feel the gear splits down low. Unless you have some decent throttle angle on it, or watching the tach, it shifts smooth. Not having the bigger splits also means less friction overlap, less heat and wear. Pretty cool stuff.

 

[rivermobster]

I'm so out of it these days...

I had no idea that only new diesel trucks have emission equipment!

Pretty bitchen that gas trucks don't have that shit anymore.

No more stolen converters to worry about. This thread is quite...

Educational.

 

[NicPaus]

I wonder if you can tune the gas trucks? Don't have to worry about smog check for 8 years. Diesel smog every other year since new. My 2015 Duramax has been smogged 4 or 5 times and has 17k miles on it.

 

[lake p.a.l.]

I've had a bunch of diesels & LOVE the torque.
I had a 2022 GMC 3500 dually 4 door with 6.6 gas & 6 speed. Ran great & pulled pretty well.
Dealer bought it back after 53k miles because they couldn't fix a speed sensor problem.
Now have a 2024 same setup but with Allison 10 speed & it's MUCH better. Have 14k on it & love it. I shake my head every time at gas station when diesel is $1-1.50 more per gallon then you have to add that fuckin snake oil Def.
Ya I miss the torque but 10k in pocket to start goes a long way for a broke ass like me.

 

[pronstar]

I wonder if you can tune the gas trucks? Don't have to worry about smog check for 8 years. Diesel smog every other year since new. My 2015 Duramax has been smogged 4 or 5 times and has 17k miles on it.

There’s not a lot left on the table for an NA motor IMHO…below elevated rpm near redline, certainly nothing that flexing your right foot a bit more can’t accomplish.

There might be some drivability improvements by auditing trans shifting. But even then, different doesn’t always mean better.

Tuning anything with forced induction, on the other hand…

 

[pronstar]

Here’s my half-ton rant…

So it’s been a while since I’ve ridden in a bone-stock truck.

I had to get an Uber a few days ago, driver had a brand new F150 Platinum. Very nice truck, I’m sure it cost a ton of dough. Suitability of this truck for an Uber driver probably deserves its own thread…

At any rate, it was a local trip on roads that I’m familiar with..and the truck rode like garbage. I drive these roads nearly every day in our Suburban (Fox 2.0) and Silverado (King 2.5/deavers) picking up my oldest from school…I’m not going to say you don’t feel the crappy roads, but it’s just significantly less jarring.

I’m sure the big wheels/smaller sidewall of the F150 play a big role, but if I was the average Joe and took a truck on a test ride over these roads, I wouldn’t buy it. And it sounded like the interior was going to fall apart.

I haven’t been in a newer Ram or GM truck recently, but I’m wondering if I’m getting spoiled in my old age with Gucci suspension, or if every bone-stock new truck with 20”+ wheels rides like crap….

Even my neighbor’s 4 year old Ram 1500 with coils in back and 20’s rides like garbage. But he’s got the 3.0 diesel and surprisingly has had zero issues in 110k miles…go figure LOL

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Here’s my half-ton rant…

So it’s been a while since I’ve ridden in a bone-stock truck.

I had to get an Uber a few days ago, driver had a brand new F150 Platinum. Very nice truck, I’m sure it cost a ton of dough. Suitability of this truck for an Uber driver probably deserves its own thread…

At any rate, it was a local trip on roads that I’m familiar with..and the truck ride like garbage. I drive these roads nearly every day in our Suburban (Fox 2.0) and Silverado (King 2.5) picking up my oldest from school…I’m not going to say you don’t feel the crappy roads, but it’s just significantly less jarring.

I’m sure the big wheels/smaller sidewall of the F150 play a big role, but if I was the average Joe and took a truck on a test ride over these roads, I wouldn’t buy it. And it sounded like the interior was going to fall apart.

I haven’t been in a newer Ram or GM truck recently, but I’m wondering if I’m getting spoiled in my old age with Gucci suspension, or if every bone-stock new truck with 20”+ wheels rides like crap….

Even my neighbor’s 4 year old Ram 1500 with coils in back and 20’s rides like garbage. But he’s got the 3.0 diesel and surprisingly has had zero issues in 110k miles…go figure LOL

My truck is on stock shocks, and went from factory 20s to 17s on 33" tires.. The ride is pretty decent, and we have some rough roads as well.

I noticed I have a leaking rear shock last week, so time for a light upgrade most likely.

Still eying a RAM 1500 for the next truck and I will do the Carli setup with Kings on day 1.

 

[hallett21]

Here’s my half-ton rant…

So it’s been a while since I’ve ridden in a bone-stock truck.

I had to get an Uber a few days ago, driver had a brand new F150 Platinum. Very nice truck, I’m sure it cost a ton of dough. Suitability of this truck for an Uber driver probably deserves its own thread…

At any rate, it was a local trip on roads that I’m familiar with..and the truck rode like garbage. I drive these roads nearly every day in our Suburban (Fox 2.0) and Silverado (King 2.5/deavers) picking up my oldest from school…I’m not going to say you don’t feel the crappy roads, but it’s just significantly less jarring.

I’m sure the big wheels/smaller sidewall of the F150 play a big role, but if I was the average Joe and took a truck on a test ride over these roads, I wouldn’t buy it. And it sounded like the interior was going to fall apart.

I haven’t been in a newer Ram or GM truck recently, but I’m wondering if I’m getting spoiled in my old age with Gucci suspension, or if every bone-stock new truck with 20”+ wheels rides like crap….

Even my neighbor’s 4 year old Ram 1500 with coils in back and 20’s rides like garbage. But he’s got the 3.0 diesel and surprisingly has had zero issues in 110k miles…go figure LOL

You have a Gucci ride lol.

Go do those roads in a stock 3/4 ton and tell us how bad the 1/2 ton is lol

 

[Roaddawg]

I forget what year but the dodges had such a bad run with the CP4 pump
They switched back to the CP3. Maybe the dodge boys can elaborate what year. But I think 2020 or 2021.

I have a 2020 Ram 3500 and they changed mine back to a CP3 on a recall

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

You have a Gucci ride lol.

Go do those roads in a stock 3/4 ton and tell us how bad the 1/2 ton is lol

This and Fords are all always overdamped.

 

[sintax]

I love my 2005 Duramax, but after this weekend it struggled hard going up the grapevine. About 12-13k loaded. Would love to get a 2018 LP5. Of course it will be deleted. Who keeps stuff stock?

you checked the old girl for boost leaks?? Might have some slight leaks, pretty common

 

[pronstar]

You have a Gucci ride lol.

Go do those roads in a stock 3/4 ton and tell us how bad the 1/2 ton is lol

I threw the Carli catalog at my 3/4-ton Ram…zero desire to knock the fillings out of my teeth with a stock 3/4 ton

 

[Your ad here]

When comparing towing performance I believe it's not the engine that's made it better. It's the transmission. 10 speeds now. That's 10 options for an engine to be performing at peak torque. Helps a lot with gas engines. Turbo diesels can have a wider spread in gears and still perform well.

 

[pronstar]

…Fords are all always overdamped.

That’s exactly what it felt like.
I guess I had high expectations for a top of the line pickup…but that the price I’m certain the guy paid, expectations should be high.

Now a Raptor, on the other hand…those ride amazingly well.

I really want to check out a new GM pickup with the DSSV shocks…curious how the ride quality is compared to a truck with 2.5”+ Kings or Foxes

 

[Sportin' Wood]

I'm sorry, I don't want to make this another I hate California post, but I want to point out this example.

Californians, you often wonder why the other states don't like you. It is not you personally, but the collective that allows California's policy to influence the rest of the states. This thread is one example. There are many examples of poor performance and increased costs caused by emission equipment, which is driven by California policy and made to be adopted by other states.
I remember growing up in SoCa with poor air quality, and I believe the changes improved air quality. However, it seems these improvements are never considered, just the never-ending demand for more strict compliance.

This is only one example of many ways California drives federal policy.

Under federal law, the state of California is allowed to promulgate more stringent vehicle emissions standards (subject to EPA approval), and other states may choose to follow either the national or California standards. California had produced air quality standards prior to EPA, with severe air quality problems in the Los Angeles metropolitan area. LA is the country's second-largest city, by population, and relies much more heavily on automobiles and has less favorable meteorological conditions than the largest and third-largest cities (New York and Chicago).[26][27]

California's emissions standards are set by the California Air Resources Board (CARB). By mid-2009, 16 other states had adopted CARB rules;[28] given the size of the California market plus these other states, many manufacturers choose to build to the CARB standard when selling in all 50 states. CARB's policies have also influenced EU emissions standards.[29]

California is attempting to regulate greenhouse gas emissions from automobiles, but faces a court challenge from the federal government. The states are also attempting to compel the federal EPA to regulate greenhouse gas emissions, which as of 2007 it has declined to do. On 19 May 2009, news reports indicate that the Federal EPA will largely adopt California's standards on greenhouse gas emissions.[30]

California and several other western states have passed bills requiring performance-based regulation of greenhouse gases from electricity generation.

In an effort to decrease emissions from heavy-duty diesel engines faster, CARB's Carl Moyer Program funds upgrades that are in advance of regulations.

The California ARB standard for light vehicle emissions is a regulation of equipment first, with verification of emissions second. The property owner of the vehicle is not permitted to modify, improve, or innovate solutions in order to pass a true emissions-only standard set for their vehicle driven on public highways. Therefore, California's attempt at regulation of emissions is a regulation of equipment, not of air quality. Vehicle owners are excluded from modifying their property in any way that has not been extensively researched and approved by CARB and still operate them on public highways.

Even if states choose not to adopt California emissions regulations, New vehicles are manufactured to meet these regulations for all states. Just like the stupid Prop 65 stickers that are put on almost every new product shipped regardless of where it is shipped or what it is.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

I really want to check out a new GM pickup with the DSSV shocks…curious how the ride quality is compared to a truck with 2.5”+ Kings or Foxes

I've got the DSSV shocks on my ZR2; I previously had SwayAway bypass shocks on my JK, and the DSSVs don't seem much to brag about; I would rather have a King or Fox properly tuned. I hear that they make a tuneable DSSV, but the stock ones are not.

 

[ChrisV]

you checked the old girl for boost leaks?? Might have some slight leaks, pretty common

Yeah. Its all new piping and couplers. Truck is just getting worn out. Almost 400k

 

[rivermobster]

Here’s my half-ton rant…

So it’s been a while since I’ve ridden in a bone-stock truck.

I had to get an Uber a few days ago, driver had a brand new F150 Platinum. Very nice truck, I’m sure it cost a ton of dough. Suitability of this truck for an Uber driver probably deserves its own thread…

At any rate, it was a local trip on roads that I’m familiar with..and the truck rode like garbage. I drive these roads nearly every day in our Suburban (Fox 2.0) and Silverado (King 2.5/deavers) picking up my oldest from school…I’m not going to say you don’t feel the crappy roads, but it’s just significantly less jarring.

I’m sure the big wheels/smaller sidewall of the F150 play a big role, but if I was the average Joe and took a truck on a test ride over these roads, I wouldn’t buy it. And it sounded like the interior was going to fall apart.

I haven’t been in a newer Ram or GM truck recently, but I’m wondering if I’m getting spoiled in my old age with Gucci suspension, or if every bone-stock new truck with 20”+ wheels rides like crap….

Even my neighbor’s 4 year old Ram 1500 with coils in back and 20’s rides like garbage. But he’s got the 3.0 diesel and surprisingly has had zero issues in 110k miles…go figure LOL

Something was wrong with that truck...

My BIL has a brand new, loaded to the gils F150 and it's quiet as a mouse and rides freaking sweet.

Tell your Uber driver to stop putting 80psi in his tires!

 

[LakeMead Boater]

I love my 2005 Duramax, but after this weekend it struggled hard going up the grapevine. About 12-13k loaded. Would love to get a 2018 LP5. Of course it will be deleted. Who keeps stuff stock? View attachment 1311877

Saw you cruising around Orange yesterday. I thought this set up looked familiar.

 

[Sharky]

A lot of the small shops I've seen are buying "week" subscriptions from GM. If you have a laptop or scanner with the J-tool, you can buy a limited time using their software. I haven't done it yet myself. A few times, I've done tranny swaps and just paid the 200$ to have the dealer do the programming. Two weeks ago my buddy rolled the dice, and paid for the "credits" on HP Tuners...he figured out how to program a trans that way. Basically same cost as dealer charge, but truck didn't need to be taken to dealer.

Yea, I've been using the 3 day package when needed.

Kicked around the idea of getting an Opus Mongoose3 just for GM. About 1/2 the price of the MDI and is supposed to work very well with GM SPS/GDS. Not sure if it supports DBDT (Data Buss Diagnostic Tool) but, the MDI does. Anymore, there are 100 times the amount of "U" codes versus "P" codes and the DBDT is incredible for testing & monitoring the data streams.

You get better tech support with a OEM Bosch MDI through GM if you run into a problem. Nice to have that support so you don't have to deal with finger pointing if something goes south.

 

[ChrisV]

Saw you cruising around Orange yesterday. I thought this set up looked familiar.

Yah. Live and work in orange.

 

[mash on it]

I love my 2005 Duramax, but after this weekend it struggled hard going up the grapevine. About 12-13k loaded. Would love to get a 2018 LP5. Of course it will be deleted. Who keeps stuff stock? View attachment 1311877

What do you define as struggle?

Dan'l

 

[ChrisV]

What do you define as struggle?

Dan'l

Have to keep a momentum of 40mph in 3rd gear. If someone cuts me off, I’m fucked.

 

[mash on it]

Over the grapevine, n/b, 3 different trucks, same 12k equipment trailer.
'86 C20/350 35 mph
'88 C30/454 45 mph
'96 F350/7.3 psd 55 mph
That '96 has 630k on the clock.

Dan'l

 

[ChrisV]

Over the grapevine, n/b, 3 different trucks, same 12k equipment trailer.
'86 C20/350 35 mph
'88 C30/454 45 mph
'96 F350/7.3 psd 55 mph
That '96 has 630k on the clock.

Dan'l

I need to install my higher gears. Would bring it back to stock ratio. Should definitely help.

 

[MooreMoney]

Ive driven the Ford 6.7L stock and it pulls 14K pounds pretty easily. I also thought the truck acted like a gas truck around town.

 

[77charger]

I wonder if you can tune the gas trucks? Don't have to worry about smog check for 8 years. Diesel smog every other year since new. My 2015 Duramax has been smogged 4 or 5 times and has 17k miles on it.

I have an 04 gm6.0 I got a blackbear tuned ecu it really made a difference in power. Improved low end you can actually feel.

I kept my oem ecu also vs turning in for a core if I ever need it I have it. My uncle also has same engine in his class c I told him about the ecu and he got one too said noticeable as well.he’s in ca and just had to get smog and he had no issues with the tuned ecu. I’m in az and they just put truck on rollers. It was cleaner with tuned ecu.

I’m sure they could do the 6.6 but I hear on mine don’t bother with the canned tunes get the ecu tuned vs the plug in deal.

 

[Sharky]

I have an 04 gm6.0

Yea but, you have one of the best damn GM LS truck motors ever made. . . . the mighty LQ4.

Have the same one in my 06. No AFM or VVT. Cast iron block the way God intended a truck engine to be.

 

[77charger]

Yea but, you have one of the best damn GM LS truck motors ever made. . . . the mighty LQ4.

Have the same one in my 06. No AFM or VVT. Cast iron block the way God intended a truck engine to be.

I don’t plan on getting rid of it. It’s 200k on engine.someday I’ll rebuild it do a cam swap to improve the torque and drive it more. I’ve done my own work on it it’s fairly easy (water pump,knock sensors,exhaust manifold and bust changed ac system this year.)

I had a 3500 flatbed same engine it had 335k when oil pump was going out company sold truck I ended up with a 2013 2500 9 ft flatbed. I had 315k on that one when I left. Was solid too ran strong never mechanical problems. No oil leaks etc.

 

[monkeyswrench]

Yea, I've been using the 3 day package when needed.

Kicked around the idea of getting an Opus Mongoose3 just for GM. About 1/2 the price of the MDI and is supposed to work very well with GM SPS/GDS. Not sure if it supports DBDT (Data Buss Diagnostic Tool) but, the MDI does. Anymore, there are 100 times the amount of "U" codes versus "P" codes and the DBDT is incredible for testing & monitoring the data streams.

You get better tech support with a OEM Bosch MDI through GM if you run into a problem. Nice to have that support so you don't have to deal with finger pointing if something goes south.

I'm lucky and unlucky....I do a lot of older stuff that other (younger) guys fear. The modern stuff bugs me. I like all the cool stuff, but it can be a pain. I'm learning as I go with it...upgrading tools as needed. Putting aside some money for a laptop of my own with diesel software, Cummins and Isuzu primarily.

 

[Sharky]

Hey 77charger, look into a GM PN# 12491857.

It's a replacement LQ4/LQ9. 3 year, 36K mile warranty from GM.

Quick cam swap and plug & play. With no AFM (like yours & mine have), its a simple cam swap and not have to change lifters on a new engine.

I'm tempted to get one and just keep it sitting in a crate in case GM goes full woke and stops selling gas engines over the parts counters. That day is coming when you won't be able to purchase a replacement gas engine from GM.

 

[Sharky]

I'm lucky and unlucky....I do a lot of older stuff that other (younger) guys fear. The modern stuff bugs me. I like all the cool stuff, but it can be a pain. I'm learning as I go with it...upgrading tools as needed. Putting aside some money for a laptop of my own with diesel software, Cummins and Isuzu primarily.

Yea, the modern stuff is really rocket science. Everything is on a network and has a module these days.

Heck, back in 2010 GM went to global A. Modules have to be programmed with a VIN# and possible global inentifier. Replace a driver door window switch. . . . . that has to be programmed.



My Tech2 has served me well for 20+ years. Not anymore.

 

[monkeyswrench]

Yea, the modern stuff is really rocket science. Everything is on a network and has a module these days.

Heck, back in 2010 GM went to global A. Modules have to be programmed with a VIN# and possible global inentifier. Replace a driver door window switch. . . . . that has to be programmed.



My Tech2 has served me well for 20+ years. Not anymore.

Tech2 works good in my world!

 

[Sharky]

Tech2 works good in my world!

Yup!

Can even do a Saturn. Old reliable. . . .

 

[Ct5]

It would be hard to go back to a gasser after having a diesel. The power delivery in general is so much better, and towing there is no comparison. Listening to a gasser scream at 5-6k up every hill and hearing it shift at those rev’s is not a good feeling….But I haven’t driven a gasser with a 10 speed either.