The Down Pedal - A Brief Overview of the Left Pedal in a V-drive

[Moneypit]

Its a Horizon , ya it's going to be a custom plate set up .The tabs are just to slow at speed.

Yep, those elec/hydro tab set ups were the best way to fix the semi deep "V" Horizon Jet's porpoising problems.. Those were "trim tabs" vs actual Cav plates....
Ray

 

[Tpltrbl303]

Great read but i have the same setup in my jetboat...

 

[Willie B]

... My Hallett Flat has an adjustable plate with a lockout handle...the boat came from the factory in 1963 with a fixed plate and was a porposing mofo,...most likely because of the engine placement ...
Now with an adjustable plate w/lockout handle...big improvement...

...My Sanger Runner has a three pedal set up...Gas,...up and down... Before getting in the boat I always make a mental note to myself,...under no circumstances step on the up pedal... Most guys set up their plates so that there is no need for an up pedal and they actually remove the up pedal...

... Big fun skipping across the lake playing with the down pedal and throttle trying to keep the attitude of the boat exact...

 

[Rickybobby]

As the boat starts coming up on speed the acceleration will lessen and so does the bow lift, and at some point you would want to release the down pedal entirely, and you would be crossing over into an area where you want to pull the plates up, helping to carry the nose of the boat. This is where the up pedal would come into play. You could now push the up pedal and start to carry the nose to get even a little more out of it on the big end.

The whole reason for the up pedal stems from water adhesion. If you set the plates all the way up, and you were running a fast boat, the water would actually run across the bottom of the boat and suck the plates down to just above neutral. How far above neutral would depend upon how much return spring pressure you had on the down pedal, and how fast you were going. So somebody put a pedal on the other side and now you could adjust it with your foot if you needed up trim.

Like this ???

 

[AzGeo]

Thanks Dave, for the informative article and all the photos of boats with my lock out handles and shoe shaped foot controls . Thanks also to the gold jet boat photos, did a lot of those for Hondo and DiMarco .

Even though I appreciate the engineering that goes into 'power assisted controls', I have always tried to keep things VERY SIMPLE, and thus VERY RELIABLE .

There is no reason why a manual foot control system cannot be EASILY DEPRESSED without any outside assist, it just takes a simple knowledge of LEVERAGE, and I understand the Great Pyramids were built using the same kind of leverage we can use today.

I've also learned that often boats will break levers, or turnbuckle ends on high performance boats . These problems brought about 'huge sized cross shafts, and over sized turnbuckles', all of which should not be required on a properly built and rigged V-drive boat . I have found that over 80% of those failures were due to 'mis-matched leverage, or travel' . For example; on ONE cav plate, the set up used a 1 1/2" long lever to move it's turnbuckle, the center used a 1 3/4" lever, and the outer lever (on the same plate) used a 2" lever .

With the plate mounted to the hull bottom with 2 rows of staggered bolts, there is no way in hell that aluminum plate will be able to CORRECTLY TRAVEL with all 3 DIFFERENT LEVER LENGTHS . So something must give somewhere, and it always does .

Our shop has always used 'mechanical methods' to control cavitation plates and steering, because it is the most solid, reliable, and predictable . We enjoy the great efforts of others, bringing power assisted plates and steering, and we hope that some day they will be as predictable and reliable as the 'old school' mechanical methods have been for so many boaters ..........

Thanks again for an informative presentation .

 

[twocents]

Denis Porter and his hydraulic cav plate over-ride system invention was mentioned earlier in this thread. I was fortunate to visit Denis once at Lake San Antonio and briefly drove his 1979 Hondo flatty (formerly the famous California Shaker drag boat) that had his original hydraulic over-ride system installed. It was a blast. Just as Denis had said, it removed about 90 percent of the muscle effort out of the plate operation (which was a necessity because Denis' left knee and hip were in bad shape from numerous motorsports accidents and injuries). And Denis was a master flatbottom driver and fearless. His Hondo was also the ultimate sleeper -- BBC with a small blower, single 4-barrel carb and wet aluminum log type exhaust manifolds. The boat was a rocket. I didn't feel comfortable putting the hammer all the way down, but I'd estimate I made a couple of 90+ mph passes. Denis said he could run 105+ and I didn't doubt it. Anyway, if you want to read my complete story about the system with photos -- here's the link http://classiccustomboats.com/pedal-power/ Sadly, Denis was fatally injured in the Hondo about a year after I did the story -- great guy and a mechanical genius.

 

[steveo143]

Denis Porter and his hydraulic cav plate over-ride system invention was mentioned earlier in this thread. I was fortunate to visit Denis once at Lake San Antonio and briefly drove his 1979 Hondo flatty (formerly the famous California Shaker drag boat) that had his original hydraulic over-ride system installed. It was a blast. Just as Denis had said, it removed about 90 percent of the muscle effort out of the plate operation (which was a necessity because Denis' left knee and hip were in bad shape from numerous motorsports accidents and injuries). And Denis was a master flatbottom driver and fearless. His Hondo was also the ultimate sleeper -- BBC with a small blower, single 4-barrel carb and wet aluminum log type exhaust manifolds. The boat was a rocket. I didn't feel comfortable putting the hammer all the way down, but I'd estimate I made a couple of 90+ mph passes. Denis said he could run 105+ and I didn't doubt it. Anyway, if you want to read my complete story about the system with photos -- here's the link http://classiccustomboats.com/pedal-power/ Sadly, Denis was fatally injured in the Hondo about a year after I did the story -- great guy and a mechanical genius.

I have one of the production systems in my 19GN Schiada. My 71 year old legs need all the help they can get. Rankin's K69 K boat has one also.

 

[jeteater1]

Ya. But I don't think there would be any point in having them anywhere besides the center sponson. The gurus can correct me if I'm wrong but from what I took from Dave's article here is that the plates rely on the water's attraction to the boats running surface to properly work. The tunnels should have mostly air under them and the outer sponsors should be out of the water when up and running. Might be able to run a standard plate/rod set-up just narrow for just the center sponson.

Well that i can do , but was thinking it would want to rock from side to side. The center section is only 24" wide .

 

[Flying_Lavey]

Well that i can do , but was thinking it would want to rock from side to side. The center section is only 24" wide .

Looks like the center sponson has a flat bottom. I believe with the flat bottom and the tunnels on either side, it should keep it pretty stable. But, I'm no expert.

 

[farmo83]

Great Article. Always love learning something new on this site.

 

[RiverDave]

Nice article great pics. Any more pics of the wood deck schiada around ? Please point me in the right direction if so .....thanks Dan

Hey Dan, it took me awhile but I finally found where we had written up the wood deck Schiada.. It was in one of the newsletters. The link to it can be found here, and it will be our throwback article of the week on RDP.


http://www.joomag.com/magazine/rdp-august-2014-volume-1/0709125001405458345?short


RD

 

[DtB]

Thank you Dave

 

[pwcon]

Always good to see anything about v drives as they are becoming rarer down here. Only see a few on the river now days Great article thanks

 

[RiverDave]

I did an article on the air assist system after this that got zero traction.. I might have gone too far down the rabbit hole.

 

[Taboma]

I did an article on the air assist system after this that got zero traction.. I might have gone too far down the rabbit hole.

Where ? Never saw it :headscratch:

 

[Taboma]

Nevermind, I see it's on the front page ---- I need to remind myself to check there occasionally :thumbsup

 

[RiverDave]

Nevermind, I see it's on the front page ---- I need to remind myself to check there occasionally :thumbsup

It was in the lounge as well.. LOL went straight down page 1, 2, 3, 4... LOL

RD

 

[Taboma]

Excellent write up Dave :thumbsup :thumbsup

Great job of writing up a rather complicated system, yet making it understandable. Perhaps in the future, opening the pics in Photoshop or equivalent and using numbers or arrows to indicate parts might simplify identifying the various components.

Must be somewhat disheartening when so many of us chime in requesting more technical articles in RDP, only to watch them disappear with barely a notice or comments. I missed it plain and simple, I'm really glad you brought it up and I found it on the Front Page --- Thanks

If you happen by the Front page, I did leave a couple of questions. Since I no longer own a flattie, hardly pressing, but Oh God, I'd love to own one again. I can't honestly find one shred of a reason to do so, other than just to feel that feeling and hear that V-drive screaming one more time :bowdown: AND NO, there's no way I'm riding shotgun in one, screw that :yikes

 

[MOUZER]

just saw this post on google.....ive got one sitting around really nice with 3 polished bottles...

 

[outboard_256]

good info

 

[River Runnin]

No shit?? They work fine on my cell phone / computer etc. anyone else having problems?

Ya!!! ...They're ALL Thumbnails! :smackHead:

 

[RiverDave]

Ya!!! ...They're ALL Thumbnails! :smackHead:

This was previous to the software upgrade. I can make them full-size when we get some time.

 

[fmo24]

If you want to see a driver working the down pedal watch Lynch’s video. It’s a great video

 

[76 Hondo]

Great read but i have the same setup in my jetboat...

My jet boat set up is little more old school

 

[Shlbyntro]

Got asked on more than one occasion why my Howard has a clutch pedal

 

[done]

I think Lenard from finish line engineering came up with the lockout handle......

 

[buck35]

What a great read! Never been around these type boats.

 

[checkrd past]

Thanks for the time you put in this article. answered alot of questions

 

[Nanu/Nanu]

@RiverDave this is a good article. Recently you had the thread just asking about things to make the forum better. Maybe try to go through and refresh/bump these cool old articles. I thought it was super cool but maybe that makes me weird for wondering about flat-bottomed boats. Just a thought and thanks for a good forum and article.

 

[SoCalDave]

Great article RD.

 

[Dana757]

@RiverDave this is a good article. Recently you had the thread just asking about things to make the forum better. Maybe try to go through and refresh/bump these cool old articles. I thought it was super cool but maybe that makes me weird for wondering about flat-bottomed boats. Just a thought and thanks for a good forum and article.

I think it makes you pretty f'in cool but I'm admittedly biased on the subject.

 

[LazyLavey]

 

[Nanu/Nanu]

@Dana757 thanks, the video you posted the other day sparked my interest. I showed it to my wife and we both agreed that you're pretty f'in cool too. My wife "you know your boats fast when you wear a life jacket setup like hers"

 

[Sharp Shooter]

@Dana757 thanks, the video you posted the other day sparked my interest. I showed it to my wife and we both agreed that you're pretty f'in cool too. My wife "you know your boats fast when you wear a life jacket setup like hers"

You know your boat’s dangerous when your life jacket comes with a parachute.