WELCOME TO RIVER DAVES PLACE

Texas Shootout

Duramax

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Messages
1,539
Reaction score
2,471
Our very own Gary Smith and Predator are there making some runs. 175 so far with a slipping transmission. You wanna talk about hp, I have never heard of a new Merc tranny slipping…ever.

Hopefully he can get it handled and bring it home.
 

Skinny Tire AH

This ain't all folks! Skater368
Joined
Oct 30, 2010
Messages
10,260
Reaction score
23,719
Our very own Gary Smith and Predator are there making some runs. 175 so far with a slipping transmission. You wanna talk about hp, I have never heard of a new Merc tranny slipping…ever.

Hopefully he can get it handled and bring it home.
So, he's up on the limiters if the tranny is slipping?
 

Duramax

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Messages
1,539
Reaction score
2,471
So, he's up on the limiters if the tranny is slipping?
He hit the tach recall after the run because he felt the boat sliding sideways. Kept in it and ran 175.

The Team Yahoo boat and Gary are the two fastest boats it sounds like.
 

Skinny Tire AH

This ain't all folks! Skater368
Joined
Oct 30, 2010
Messages
10,260
Reaction score
23,719
They have trans? I'm so confused.
Transmission

7D0C7236-1C0F-4427-9FFF-7151663EFD9F.jpeg
 

Thunderhead1

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 18, 2016
Messages
995
Reaction score
1,886
Our very own Gary Smith and Predator are there making some runs. 175 so far with a slipping transmission. You wanna talk about hp, I have never heard of a new Merc tranny slipping…ever.

Hopefully he can get it handled and bring it home.
well you should put your ear closer to the ground... Mother Merc is not as bullet proof as the marketing would suggest.
 

Skinny Tire AH

This ain't all folks! Skater368
Joined
Oct 30, 2010
Messages
10,260
Reaction score
23,719
What slips? Clutch? Torque converter? Thanks for the pic!
P3 runs different gear boxes. BAM I think. Mine are only rated at ~700-750. Guys that run 700’s up to stage 2-3 start to have issues.
 

SBMech

Fixes Broken Stuff
Joined
Jul 25, 2012
Messages
11,627
Reaction score
20,789
Interesting...it looks like stacked plates/clutches similar to a dragster?
 

Duramax

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Messages
1,539
Reaction score
2,471
Couple things....

@Tank - Gary used air assisted crash boxes in P2. They are bad ass but tough,

@ChrisV - Number 6's are not like Bravo, etc, the rely on a transmission inside the boat. Plates slip, etc.

@Thunderhead1 - I am well aware of Mercury's failures, I just don't hear too many regarding their new trannys.
 

Tank

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
20,954
Reaction score
49,823
Couple things....

@Tank - Gary used air assisted crash boxes in P2. They are bad ass but tough,

@ChrisV - Number 6's are not like Bravo, etc, the rely on a transmission inside the boat. Plates slip, etc.

@Thunderhead1 - I am well aware of Mercury's failures, I just don't hear too many regarding their new trannys.
For sure. They definitely have their down sides - specifically docking or getting on the trailer! HUGE pain in the ass. But for running hard...no slippy. :D
 

boatnam2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
13,686
Reaction score
7,240
I don't know of not one thing they goes fast that doesn't break stuff, hell even a rocket to the moon with the best of the best can go boom.
 

MK1MOD0

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2019
Messages
3,429
Reaction score
6,641
I’m actually suprised they don’t run multi speed transmissions like the European Class 1 boats.
 

Skinny Tire AH

This ain't all folks! Skater368
Joined
Oct 30, 2010
Messages
10,260
Reaction score
23,719
I’m actually suprised they don’t run multi speed transmissions like the European Class 1 boats.
There was a 40SS Skater, Out of Control” that had some crazy 3 speed in it. I think there’s a video on it here someplace. I won’t even try to find it on my phone.

It shifted long and RPMs dropped way off during shifts.

Al Burns owned it then.
 

MK1MOD0

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2019
Messages
3,429
Reaction score
6,641
There was a 40SS Skater, Out of Control” that had some crazy 3 speed in it. I think there’s a video on it here someplace. I won’t even try to find it on my phone.

It shifted long and RPMs dropped way off during shifts.

Al Burns owned it then.
Yea I remember that boat. I believe it had 2500 hp motors. NUTS ! I’m not actually sure how many gears the class 1 boats are running. 2-3 if I remember correctly.
 

wallnutz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2010
Messages
7,614
Reaction score
16,575
There was a 40SS Skater, Out of Control” that had some crazy 3 speed in it. I think there’s a video on it here someplace. I won’t even try to find it on my phone.

It shifted long and RPMs dropped way off during shifts.

Al Burns owned it then.
Correct Al Burns' Skater. Couldn't get a close enough ratio transmission, it would drop off the rpm and lose to much boost. Then it would hit hard and break something. At least that is what I was told by someone close to the family. I thought it was a good idea if the ratios were closer together to keep it in more of a linear boost.
 

Duramax

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Messages
1,539
Reaction score
2,471
I think it’s still one of my favorites to this day. Al really went all in with that boat, and was ONE of the first to run turbos. Dutweiler built the turbo motors, but back then it lacked a computer to adjust parameters to really make it work. It took them 2 years to get the boat on plane, and that’s the reason for the multi speed trans (they even tried NOS to spool the big turbos) He finally lost interest. First time on plane it blew the water pressure gauge off the dash (what I was told).
Big, bad ass ASD drives and a rudder!!! The deck sloped to the water. Tractor pipes!!! So sick.
When my 40 was getting work at Skater it was there and I crawled all over it.
 
Last edited:

Skinny Tire AH

This ain't all folks! Skater368
Joined
Oct 30, 2010
Messages
10,260
Reaction score
23,719
Al is/was a customer of mine. Back when he was fighting that thing, he would come in and buy hoses and fittings and tell me what he was trying to make happen.
 

wallnutz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2010
Messages
7,614
Reaction score
16,575
Our very own Gary Smith and Predator are there making some runs. 175 so far with a slipping transmission. You wanna talk about hp, I have never heard of a new Merc tranny slipping…ever.

Hopefully he can get it handled and bring it home.
Do they run again tomorrow? It would be great if they had a chance to do some tuning maybe to help with the slip. Also, is it a mile track there? I think it is, maybe even a bit longer.
 

hallett21

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2010
Messages
18,299
Reaction score
23,441
is there a way to make Turbo 400s work? Seems like that’s what all the big HP Schiadas run. I guess that’s pretty old tech vs todays stuff.

What distance are they running?
 

Duramax

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Messages
1,539
Reaction score
2,471
Do they run again tomorrow? It would be great if they had a chance to do some tuning maybe to help with the slip. Also, is it a mile track there? I think it is, maybe even a bit longer.
I don't think they run again. It sounds like it is a close one between Predator and Team Yahoo.

Team Yahoo with the old school PSI blowers topped with Dominators! Totally different power plants in the two boats but the same result!
 

Duramax

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Messages
1,539
Reaction score
2,471
Al is/was a customer of mine. Back when he was fighting that thing, he would come in and buy hoses and fittings and tell me what he was trying to make happen.
No matter what it was cool as shit.

I follow the guys who have it now. Made some changes I don't like, and the driver sits above the canopies, lol, but it's a runner now with Merc 1100's it looks like.
 

Skinny Tire AH

This ain't all folks! Skater368
Joined
Oct 30, 2010
Messages
10,260
Reaction score
23,719
No matter what it was cool as shit.

I follow the guys who have it now. Made some changes I don't like, and the driver sits above the canopies, lol, but it's a runner now with Merc 1100's it looks like.
Oh yea. Totally rad boat. He was Soooo frustrated. Wanted to be the first to 200
 
  • Like
Reactions: DWC

Skinny Tire AH

This ain't all folks! Skater368
Joined
Oct 30, 2010
Messages
10,260
Reaction score
23,719
No matter what it was cool as shit.

I follow the guys who have it now. Made some changes I don't like, and the driver sits above the canopies, lol, but it's a runner now with Merc 1100's it looks like.
Is it still an ASD boat?
 

steamin rice

No Bad Days....
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
4,009
Reaction score
2,451
I was in the area for business this week. I was able to make it to the street party last night and watch a few runs in the shootout this AM before heading to the airport to catch my flight home.

The street party was small, but still fun with some nice boats on display. I was able to see P3 and also the yahoo boat run in the shootout. Both looked pretty fast from shore.
 

02HoWaRd26

DCBroke
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
12,190
Reaction score
29,021
is there a way to make Turbo 400s work? Seems like that’s what all the big HP Schiadas run. I guess that’s pretty old tech vs todays stuff.

What distance are they running?
Idk myself I’ve always wondered why not even powerglides, short first gear to pull big wheels, with a real tall 2nd for the go baby go speed.
 

OLDRAAT

inadequate member
Joined
Oct 3, 2007
Messages
2,823
Reaction score
4,549
Didn't he have Weismann trans. in it initially?
 

Dog

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Messages
1,447
Reaction score
4,400
COURSE

  • Total length of Clear Lake is approximately 2.5 miles long
  • Course Length:
    • Approach is approximately 1/8 -1/4 mile to the course ENTRY buoys to allow for 40MPH entry speeds (verified by radar)
    • Official Shoot-Out Course Length is 3/4 Mile (end of ¾ distance is marked with course buoys)
    • Shut-down and turn off area extends for 1.25 Miles beyond the ¾ course end
    • Speed verified by event provided, on-board GPS units with Highest Speed Recall feature.
    • Racer must come off throttles (verified by Race Official by visual and audible confirmation of deceleration) at end of ¾ course distance or run will be disqualified
 

RaceTec

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
2,291
Reaction score
2,492
Awesome run! I always wondered why someone didn't just do a air shifted two speed Lenco's? Strong, compact, and fast shifting, now with all of the electronics you could even blip the throttle and save parts bun not lose boost at all!
 

Racey

Maxwell Smart-Ass
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
22,224
Reaction score
50,191
Interesting...it looks like stacked plates/clutches similar to a dragster?

It's essentially a velvet drive, borg-warner. Just modernized.

No different than a TH-400 but only has "high" gear. Forward is 1:1 hydraulic clutch lock. Reverse is 1:1 planetary set.

Some of the older stuff was running Chrylser Torqu-flight 2 speeds that were heavily modified, But they eventually got to a point where they couldn't handle the torque of big big power.

I'm not sure if Gary's boat is running the single speed velvet drive trans, or if they have 2 speeds.

Most of the skaters run the single speed velvet drive style.
 

Racey

Maxwell Smart-Ass
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
22,224
Reaction score
50,191
Idk myself I’ve always wondered why not even powerglides, short first gear to pull big wheels, with a real tall 2nd for the go baby go speed.

Powerglids 2nd gear is just 1:1 clutch lock, there is no gear ratio to change in high gear. Same as a TH-400

Overdrives cannot handle the shear torque made by these engines, the only reasonable solution if you wanted to up the ratio would be to run a Z drive between the drive and the trans.

When it comes to the Screw super charged engines, the best solution is to just keep turning the motor faster. I think Brummett's PSI motors they are turning upwards of 8,500RPM. They have a super advanced valve train blueprinting program that allows them to run up there and actually stay together reliably.
 

RiverDave

In it to win it
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
126,173
Reaction score
164,349
There was a 40SS Skater, Out of Control” that had some crazy 3 speed in it. I think there’s a video on it here someplace. I won’t even try to find it on my phone.

It shifted long and RPMs dropped way off during shifts.

Al Burns owned it then.

That thing was way over complicated and they couldn’t make it work right.. I went in the boat and made a for sale video on it

It actually functioned ok when I went on it but during a shift it blew a boost line off the compressor side of the turbo.. so we were just kinda getting into it and then had to turn back

Very cool boat that sold for cheap.
 

rrrr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
15,847
Reaction score
35,269
Yea, it’s cool but seems very inefficient. Huge lag time in shifting
I don't have a clue how the boat transmissions work, but that's never stopped me from posting about subjects which fit that description.

😁

But seriously, the transmission in the Spirit of Rett, the AA/FS I crewed on that set a new land speed record of 417.637 MPH in 2010, was a Liberty no-lift air shifted five speed with a five floater mutidisc clutch. It shifted fast and hard. It's a single engine vehicle, and the engine produced 2,370 HP on the Reher & Morrison Dyno.

To the best of my knowledge, there's never been an issue with excess slippage in the car's driveline.

So I was thinking about why and when transmission slippage would occur on the boats, and I'm guessing the answer might be the shocks produced by reentry into the water as the boat gets airborne. Even though the throttles are being manipulated, is there enough of a response lag by the throttleman that the reentry loads are significant? Or does the transmission slippage occur under constant load conditions?

Do those guys run realtime data gathering sensors? We had CANbus RPM sensors on the engine, transmission, and locked differential, and slippage was about 3% overall.
 

Duramax

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Messages
1,539
Reaction score
2,471
I don't have a clue how the boat transmissions work, but that's never stopped me from posting about subjects which fit that description.

😁

But seriously, the transmission in the Spirit of Rett, the AA/FS I crewed on that set a new land speed record of 417.637 MPH in 2010, was a Liberty no-lift air shifted five speed with a five floater mutidisc clutch. It shifted fast and hard. It's a single engine vehicle, and the engine produced 2,370 HP on the Reher & Morrison Dyno.

To the best of my knowledge, there's never been an issue with excess slippage in the car's driveline.

So I was thinking about why and when transmission slippage would occur on the boats, and I'm guessing the answer might be the shocks produced by reentry into the water as the boat gets airborne. Even though the throttles are being manipulated, is there enough of a response lag by the throttleman that the reentry loads are significant? Or does the transmission slippage occur under constant load conditions?

Do those guys run realtime data gathering sensors? We had CANbus RPM sensors on the engine, transmission, and locked differential, and slippage was about 3% overall.
The racing guys lose transmissions from re entry, that’s why a good throttle man is so important, also why most race boats run crash boxes.
Guys like Gary slip do to the power. His shootout tune is well past your land speed car hp wise. I would assume setting up sensors and such would be great, but he would also have to have somebody to read them, etc.
These new transmissions from Mercury SEEM to be holding up ok. Enough for him to deal with it I think.
 

rrrr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
15,847
Reaction score
35,269
I would assume setting up sensors and such would be great, but he would also have to have somebody to read them, etc.
These new transmissions from Mercury SEEM to be holding up ok. Enough for him to deal with it I think.
CANbus data on the streamliner was stored on an SD card and read after each run. In IndyCar, digital sensor telemetry data is sent to the pit box and stored on laptop hard drives, but also interpreted in real time by the race engineer. The engineer informs the crew chief about the info, and the crew chief decides what to do, for example, about moving the center of downforce pressure forward or aft by adjusting the front wing and tire pressures during pit stops.

The race engineer can also determine slip angle in the corners and make recommendations to the driver about adjusting the anti-roll bars and the LF and RR crossweight adjustments in the cockpit.

I think the boats could benefit from more data gathering and interpretation.
 

steamin rice

No Bad Days....
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
4,009
Reaction score
2,451
Congrats to Gary Smith in Predator for winning the 2022 Texas Shootout Challenge. Gary posted a speed of 175, which was over 10mph faster than second place, and a new all time Texas Shootout speed record.
That's awesome, congrats to Gary. What was the 2nd place boat? The yahoo skater looked pretty fast when I saw it run, but I was only able to see the first 15 or so boats since I needed to head to the airport.
 
Top