Tesla reveals semi-truck and new sports car

[rrrr]

Out of Elon's presentation...

I'd love to see how they arrived at their claims. I just don't believe it.

The $0.07 per kWH thing just doesn't fly according to multiple references I have found.

In 2016 Musk claimed they had 276,000 Model 3 deposits and that they would be building something like 10,000 per month by now. This is why I'm skeptical about their claims:




Tesla Model 3 production reached ~440 units to date last month, sources say
Fred Lambert

- Nov. 9th 2017 5:33 am ET



@FredericLambert



FEATURE


694 Comments
As Tesla CEO Elon Musk made clear during the company’s conference call with financial analysts last week, Model 3 production is still very much in “production hell” – so much so that Musk refused to confirm how many Model 3 vehicles they produced in October.

He said that “people would just read too much into it.”

Now we have looked into it and at the end of last month, Tesla had built just over 440 Model 3 vehicles since the start of production in July, according to sources familiar with the matter.


https://electrek.co/2017/11/09/tesla-model-3-production-numbers/

 

[Sleek-Jet]

The Megachargers for the Semi's will be solar which will charge the batteries 80% (400 miles) in 30 minutes. Just repeating what I heard and read. I will double check the wholesale price of $.07 per kWh.

Unfortunately power costs at this level aren't just price per/kWh, there are demand charges and what not that are going to be difficult for a trucking company to get around not paying.

Unless Solar City starts buying utilities wholesale where these Megachargers are going to be located, trucking companies aren't going to get close to 7 cents per kWh. I did a little more math and figure it will be close to $.10 kWh here based on our large industrial rates and some very generous assumptions on how often the chargers get used.

 

[crzy2bealive]

That roadster is badass. I'm not even a big fan of electric cars. I work for Spacex and half of my department is obsessed with Elon.

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[crzy2bealive]

That roadster is badass. I'm not even a big fan of electric cars. I work for Spacex and half of my department is obsessed with Elon.

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[crzy2bealive]

That roadster is badass. I'm not even a big fan of electric cars. I work for Spacex and half of my department is obsessed with Elon.

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[crzy2bealive]

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[Sleek-Jet]

Boy, you can say that again!

 

[Sleek-Jet]

Not to mention who’s going to pay for all infrastructure .

We most likely would have to issue debt if our current utility plant couldn't feed the load and we had to do an expansion at a substation. That is an expense on our annual budget which is baked into the rates for the duration of the bond. The short answer is everyone.

The transformers and such at the Megacharger site would be paid for by whoever wants to build one and the only expense that would show up is depreciation.

 

[wallnutz]

I am not a trucker but disagree with the 500 mile deal for most routes.I would think that this range would dis courage most long haul companies due to distance and recharge times. However on the other hand I could see companies going this route as a way to maintain a safe work environment for truck drivers so they arent exceeding allowable drive time/shift. After 500 miles is up, truck gets recharged, driver sleeps and once charged can go back out on the road type deal.

I would also say that these will be introduced with a hefty price tag and would drive up shipping charges to the consumer.

I️ imagine they mean local daily routes, like restaurant deliveries and such. No way could they mean long over the road routes. But like everything electric, what are you saving by the time it charges, and the resources to charge them.

 

[pronstar]

Focusing only on long-range freight is missing out in the larger picture.

80% of freight that's trucked in the US, travels 250 miles or less.

 

[spectras only]

Before long haul trucking became the norm since the late 70's[ Vancouver-Calgary or Edmonton> 750 miles ], transporting goods were done by trains, goods distributed by smaller trucks throughout cities. With the explosion of trucking business taken over by east indians [ 9 out of 10 truckers in British Columbia ] who work for less, don't maintain their rigs as should, so I don't see Tesla trucks will be seen here for decades. Adding extremely long grades to the haul through the Rockies as well. I did a trip between Vancouver and Kelowna alongside a guy with a Tesla. He had to conserve power on all the grades to make it through the Coquihalla if he didn't want to run out of juice in the 250 mile stretch so I had to slow down to his pace,lol. My car holds only 19 US gallon and I made it without stopping for refuel. Not bad for a 8 liter engine. I'd say, the electric transport truck business is a viable option in an urban city network with mega charger stations,but what about these 500-750 mile trips with hardly any cities in between to make it profitable for transport companies to invest? Transporing stuff is nothing new since the early twenties using catenary systems in Europe where there's a city every 10-20 kilometers in between. Cheapest transport is still done by trains on long distances.

 

[hallett21]

I wonder if there's a parallel between the diesel tax increase and Tesla's semi here in CA.

Is there a reason no truck company ever tried replicating locomotive technology into semi trucks? Meaning diesel powerunning electric motors.

 

[pronstar]

I wonder if there's a parallel between the diesel tax increase and Tesla's semi here in CA.

Is there a reason no truck company ever tried replicating locomotive technology into semi trucks? Meaning diesel powerunning electric motors.

Efficiency is lost every time you convert from one form of energy, to another.

Locomotives are what they are because of the way electric motors make power. Getting a mile of freight moving from a stop would be hell on a clutch, for example...and was a limiting factor with steam locomotives.

Plus you can put electric motors into a truck (wheel setup on a locomotive) so each wheel gets power...mechanically distributing a diesel engine's power to all of those wheels would introduce a lot of mechanics loss.

Even so, rail is an incredibly efficient way to move freight overland and great distances.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

There's no fuggin way that battery is going to charge in 30 minutes. It has to be four or five times bigger than a Model S battery, which weighs 1,200 lbs and takes a bit over an hour to charge.

The heat generated by running that much current into the truck battery would be huge. Li-po or Li-ion or whatever they're using would overheat quickly. I'm not making this up, trying to charge the battery in 30 minutes would burn it down. Basic electrical engineering calculations make this a fact. The laws of physics don't care who Tesla or Elon Musk is.

I wouldn't be surprised if they had to design a glycol battery cooling system to run during a charge taking several hours. That means running a glycol pump and a heat exchanger pump and fan.

That estimated weight of 5,000 lbs makes the battery swap idea suspect. That's a hella bunch of work if the operator is running a fleet of 100 trucks. Not only that, the operator would have to buy a second battery for each truck. It'll cost at least $20-30 grand, if not more.

Then there's the manpower and money needed to pull that 5,000 lb battery and replace it during a maintenance shift. The operator of a hundred truck fleet would have to hire about 200 new employees, buy at least 30 lifts that'll move 5,000 lbs, purchase at least 35 480 volt 3 phase chargers, install the 3-4 mW electrical service, and 35 200 amp branch circuits to power the chargers.

The infrastructure would easily cost $20-30 million. Sure, the operator could stagger battery swaps and reduce the cost, but remember, many city distribution center routes run during the daytime to coincide with the operating hours of retail outlets.

Taking all this into consideration shows the hurdles ahead of this enterprise. I suppose Tesla carried out extensive market studies and determined there are companies interested in the truck, but Jeezus it sounds like a fucking huge investment would be required to run a fleet of them.

I appreciate the work Sleek Jet did to determine some of the electrical requirements for a substantial installation.

Tesla has developed special lifts just for removing and replacing the batteries in the S. Safe to say they have, or are in the process of, developing a lift for the same process for the Semi's. All these EV's already have liquid cooled battery packs. Developing liquid cooled charging lines is not difficult or out of the question at all. Or just sone big ass cables.

Back when I did large commercial refrigeration, whenever there was a period of extended power outage, the stores would rent 1,500kw gensets and they would be connected by 6 large cables (don't know what gauge they were but they were about 1" in diameter). Im thinking if they could power entire stores pulling a few hundred amps (2 typical refrigeration racks can pull around 200KVA while trying to pull down case tenps as well on the condensers and lighting, etc, etc)

My point being, I don't see them having an issue charging a large battery that fast assuming they have the power available and the technology inside the battery is capable of such.

 

[HALLETT BOY]

What about repair and maintenance ? Tesla requires only them to repair cars right now , some people wait weeks for a repair ...not exactly what a trucker wants to hear .

 

[Yellowboat]

I can see a electric semi working for small, local routs, but I can not see it happening for long haul. way too much infrastructure needed.

all this is assuming that there is actually decent cost savings over diesel.

lets just do some basic math. diesel has ~147k btu per gallon. if you can average say 8 mpg( not likely, but it makes math easy) you are using 18375 btus per mile and 1 pint of diesel. there is ~3400 btu per kwh which means ~ 6 kwh per mile.

lets assume a diesel cost of say $4/gal that means that mile cost you $.50 in fuel. that means you would need a kwh of $.0833 to break even. even at the proposed $.07 is only $.08 per mile saved. assuming they have the same maint costs. you would need to drive 1.25 million miles to break even if the semi cost $100k more. some of the people that drive trucks here can give us diesel maint costs, but things like driver, tires, brakes and etc are going to be the same. so the only difference is going to be the drive train. even if the cost of maint is $.10/mile a 100k cost difference will still take 555k miles to make up assuming you get that magic 500 miles a day that is still a 3 year break even point if the truck is driven every day. all this is based on that every low enegery cost. if it ends up being the same cost as diesel( which remember we have at $4/gallon which is about $1 more then the national average.) you are still looking at a million mines or just under 6 years for pay back. using the current national average for fuel(2.83) your power would have to be under $.06 to be competitive if the maintance cost are the same.

in other words, not going to happen.

 

[Rvrluvr]

FUCK CARB!!!

 

[cnj]

FUCK CARB!!!

YES!!!!!!

 

[arch stanton]

The all electric truck is there city truck Tesla is also developing hydrogen fuel cell electric trucks called Nicola one and Nicola two these are there long haul trucks hear is there specs

• 100% ZERO EMISSIONS
• HYDROGEN POWERED
• 800 - 1,200 MILE RANGE
• 15 MINUTE REFILL TIME
• NEVER PLUG IN
• 100% ELECTRIC DRIVE
• THE END OF DIESEL ENGINES
• 1/2 THE OPERATING COST COMPARED TO DIESEL
• 2,000 FT. LBS TORQUE
• 1,000 HORSEPOWER
• 320 kWh BATTERY
• 1 MILLION MILES FREE* HYDROGEN FUEL
• REGENERATIVE BRAKING
• NO COMPETITION

 

[spectras only]

So, Bob Lutz has his opinion on Tesla. Of course he doesn't have the wisdom of Elon Musk,haha
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/com...former-gm-exec-bob-lutz/ar-BBF6UCk?li=AAggFp5

in an interview with "Power Lunch."

Among the issues facing the electric-car maker are fixed costs that are out of control, an inefficient manufacturing operation and no dealership network, Lutz said.
"There is no secret sauce in Tesla. They use the same lithium-ion batteries as everybody else."
In fact, he thinks GMGM might even have an advantage because its batteries are arguably more capable and lower cost.
Lutz believes the announcements were a way to deflect from the company's financial troubles.

"They are hemorrhaging cash. They're going to have to go for another capital raise," he said.

 

[rrrr]

Tesla has developed special lifts just for removing and replacing the batteries in the S. Safe to say they have, or are in the process of, developing a lift for the same process for the Semi's. All these EV's already have liquid cooled battery packs. Developing liquid cooled charging lines is not difficult or out of the question at all. Or just sone big ass cables.

Back when I did large commercial refrigeration, whenever there was a period of extended power outage, the stores would rent 1,500kw gensets and they would be connected by 6 large cables (don't know what gauge they were but they were about 1" in diameter). Im thinking if they could power entire stores pulling a few hundred amps (2 typical refrigeration racks can pull around 200KVA while trying to pull down case tenps as well on the condensers and lighting, etc, etc)

My point being, I don't see them having an issue charging a large battery that fast assuming they have the power available and the technology inside the battery is capable of such.

.

The difference being those cables are a type of fine strand conductor called DLO cable, and the insulation is rated for 90 degree C when run in open air. They can carry around twice the current of the similar sized standard 75 degree rated building wire that's installed in EMT conduit.

In my data center construction days, i had to load bank test 2mW gensets during facility acceptance testing. I used 4 paralleled DLO373 conductors per phase. That would carry 2,360 amps per phase.

It's obvious from the Tesla press release they have figured out all the issues I raised in my earlier posts. I hafta say I'm quite surprised about that. I'm apparently stuck in the Stone Age.

It remains to be seen if their claim the truck costs less to run per mile than a diesel truck holds up.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

Curious how those cable were connected, I'm guessing they were bolted?

 

[530RL]

So, Bob Lutz has his opinion on Tesla. Of course he doesn't have the wisdom of Elon Musk,haha
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/com...former-gm-exec-bob-lutz/ar-BBF6UCk?li=AAggFp5

in an interview with "Power Lunch."

Among the issues facing the electric-car maker are fixed costs that are out of control, an inefficient manufacturing operation and no dealership network, Lutz said.
"There is no secret sauce in Tesla. They use the same lithium-ion batteries as everybody else."
In fact, he thinks GMGM might even have an advantage because its batteries are arguably more capable and lower cost.
Lutz believes the announcements were a way to deflect from the company's financial troubles.

"They are hemorrhaging cash. They're going to have to go for another capital raise," he said.

Lutz was at GM from 2001 - 2010 and was amongst other things, head of product development. GM went bankrupt in 2009 and took 12 billion from all of us (10.5 for GM and 1.5 for their finance arm Ally). And Bob was right up there as a direct report to the CEO.

So I guess he does know something about bankruptcy.....

Just as diesel and ICE will continue to improve in efficiency and reliability, so will electric and electrical storage. There is room and markets for all of these technologies and the more competition amongst companies and technologies the better off all of us are as consumers.

 

[JDKRXW]

Lutz was at GM from 2001 - 2010 and was amongst other things, head of product development. GM went bankrupt in 2009 and took 12 billion from all of us (10.5 for GM and 1.5 for their finance arm Ally). And Bob was right up there as a direct report to the CEO.

So I guess he does know something about bankruptcy.....
.

You're not quite right with the $12 billion.
They also took and additional $3.5 billion from the gov't of Canada too.

 

[rrrr]

Curious how those cable were connected, I'm guessing they were bolted?

.
The 50' cables were linked with 90 degree rated quick connects, and the termination cable had a 90 degree rated 2 hole lug that was bolted to the bus.

Anytime I was putting that much heat into the cables I would make sure everything was rated for 90 degree C operation.

 

[78Southwind]

So I was watching a video of some of the Youtubers I follow that cover Tesla and one of the Youtubers that was at the launch event said that the founders series Roadster was almost sold out that night. They didn't mention any actual numbers but I know the founder series is 1,000 Roadsters at $250,000 per car ($250,000,000). The cars have to be paid up front too. Seems like a lot of cars to be sold in one night I am going to see if I can find another source with the same info.

 

[AzGeo]

Well, you can blame the Viper cars, and Pontiac Solstice on Bob, but you can't blame him personally for the demise of GM . So stop insinuating it .

If you knew how GM worked internally, you would recognize where the problem started, grew, and finally bled to death .

Bob Lutz is a very smart guy, and has good, current information on the US car industry .

I never had confidence in Musk and his "government sponsored everything", no matter what he PROJECTED, but slowly tried to produce .

How many of us could have produced a viable product with all the Billions Musk has gotten from the federal government ?

I am no longer in the market for any more "perpetually powered unicorns", not even on a Trump tax level ...........

 

[WhatExit?]

Right after Tesla doesn't deliver the Model 3 cars they can start not delivering the trucks, sports cars and the pickup trucks Musk just said they'd make. Of course he said it'll be a gamechanger.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...ckup-truck-said-he-dying-build-one/983694001/

 

[getreal]

https://newatlas.com/nikola-trucks-salt-lake-city-launch/46796/

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

View attachment 610139 View attachment 610140 https://newatlas.com/nikola-trucks-salt-lake-city-launch/46796/

That thing is going to kill any electric truck.

 

[getreal]

And this also:
https://nikolamotor.com/nzt

 

[Uncle Dave]

Right after Tesla doesn't deliver the Model 3 cars they can start not delivering the trucks, sports cars and the pickup trucks Musk just said they'd make. Of course he said it'll be a gamechanger.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...ckup-truck-said-he-dying-build-one/983694001/

Except he's up to about 5K model 3's a week now - or where he was supposed to be a few months ago.
Teslas almost always late- but ultimately they get there.

We know this by polling the supply chain for orders and looking at whats rolling out of the factory.

Hydrogen is a pipe dream - you take water, add massive electricity to it to crack the "H" from the H20 - store the result in the form of hydrogen - ...wait for it..........to make electricity again. Even taking out distribution the total chain is massively inefficient.

At least with electricity there exists a grid structure today at some level.



UD

 

[Taboma]

Quoted from Uncle Dave "At least with electricity there exists a grid structure today at some level. "
At some level is right, to hear it from the CA power providers on a warm day --- keep your house warm, don't run appliances until after 10 PM, conserve electricity, yada yada yada. So sure, I'm going to conserve so folks can charge their electric cars ? Fat Chance !! Power providers screaming for us to conserve while politicians are pushing towards using more electricity, at the same time throwing up roadblocks for any new generating plants. It all makes perfect sense

 

[Uncle Dave]

The load on everything in cali seems maxed.
We are being told to conserve natural gas as well and the US has that in nearly unlimited amount.
Its funny because we build shopping center after shopping center all needing their own substations just to run the AC but no one ever shuts that off or limits it.

the big problem we have with the status quo of big oil is twofold -

#1 the cost to protect oil - we spend about a TRILLION on defense of oil. EVERY YEAR.
#2 the loopholes subsidies and tax breaks that oil gas and energy companies make while making record profits

Imagine what kind of infrastructure we could have if we didn't have to pay for the 5th fleet to park in straights of Hormuz?

Electrification of transportation at a sensible pace is the only long term solution to reducing and or eventually elimination these horrific costs


UD

 

[pronstar]

While the electrical load is maxed-out during the day, CA makes too much electricity at night.

The idea is to balance the load by encouraging people to charge at night.

Which will make evening rates skyrocket as demand skyrockets, something the utilities obviously want.

EVs with decent range won't need to charge at the workplace during the day.

That's the plan anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[spectras only]

Elon Musk must use his brain figuring out, how to create an oscillator, powered by zero point radiation, then he can enter into fame being a genius. Now, he's only reaping the benefits of the hard work of Tesla.

 

[Taboma]

While the electrical load is maxed-out during the day, CA makes too much electricity at night.

The idea is to balance the load by encouraging people to charge at night.

Which will make evening rates skyrocket as demand skyrockets, something the utilities obviously want.

EVs with decent range won't need to charge at the workplace during the day.

That's the plan anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

OK, but in the summer we're not asked to conserve until dark, but 10 PM, not sure how we're going to control that little detail.
Just discussing, personally we haven't paid a power bill in 7 years and I'll use what I want and when. At least until there's some coordination between all the various entities and appropriate money is spent towards infrastructure to support their pipe dreams.

 

[AzGeo]

Right after Tesla doesn't deliver the Model 3 cars they can start not delivering the trucks, sports cars and the pickup trucks Musk just said they'd make. Of course he said it'll be a gamechanger.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...ckup-truck-said-he-dying-build-one/983694001/

Bob Lutz also says "it'll be a game changer for Tesla" . Bob is writing Tesla's eulogy right now .

Deposits on cars he can't deliver, then trucks he can't deliver , and he will NEED to go to Mars, to get away from his angry customers ...........

 

[Uncle Dave]

Bob Lutz....has little to no credibility ..anymore.

Tesla hansnt yet ripped me off like Bob lutz and cronies did.

Not enamored with the guy, but can't take away his accomplishments.

UD

 

[pronstar]

OK, but in the summer we're not asked to conserve until dark, but 10 PM, not sure how we're going to control that little detail.

By incentivizing - making power dirt cheap - during times of lowest demand, and/or making it very expensive when they don't want you to use it.

They do that currently with EV- TOU (Time Of Use) plans.

When I lived in CA I was on that plan. Power was super pricey in the day when no one was home at our house...our power bill went down slightly after I got my electric car, even though power use went up.

I paid:
$0.15/kWh super off peak (10pm - 6am)
$0.30/kWh off peak (6am - 8am, 8pm - 10pm)
$0.45/kWh peak (8am - 8pm)

Happily, I've got a flat rate in Dallas.
$0.067/kWh 24/7


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[AzGeo]

Bob Lutz....has little to no credibility ..anymore.

Tesla hansnt yet ripped me off like Bob lutz and cronies did.

Not enamored with the guy, but can't take away his accomplishments.

UD

I trust his "opinions" on the auto industry more than I do the "Wall Street and magazine experts", at least he has been on both sides of the US auto industry in multiple companies .

Just because he's retired and not "ram rodding" any new and popular car designs doesn't mean that he is dead .

He did not hurt Mopar, and if the "bean counters" at GM would have allowed him to build the car he wanted, they too would have had a great seller and possibly a "classic", from his work there .

What did BOB do to you ?

 

[Taboma]

By incentivizing - making power dirt cheap - during times of lowest demand, and/or making it very expensive when they don't want you to use it.

They do that currently with EV- TOU (Time Of Use) plans.

When I lived in CA I was on that plan. Power was super pricey in the day when no one was home at our house...our power bill went down slightly after I got my electric car, even though power use went up.

I paid:
$0.15/kWh super off peak (10pm - 6am)
$0.30/kWh off peak (6am - 8am, 8pm - 10pm)
$0.45/kWh peak (8am - 8pm)

Happily, I've got a flat rate in Dallas.
$0.067/kWh 24/7


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I'm still pondering, with all my solar power, do I buy a haul-ass Tesla-90 ludicrous (Not a 3 for sure --- damned ugly) or grow pot ?

 

[Uncle Dave]

I trust his "opinions" on the auto industry more than I do the "Wall Street and magazine experts", at least he has been on both sides of the US auto industry in multiple companies .

Just because he's retired and not "ram rodding" any new and popular car designs doesn't mean that he is dead .

He did not hurt Mopar, and if the "bean counters" at GM would have allowed him to build the car he wanted, they too would have had a great seller and possibly a "classic", from his work there .

What did BOB do to you ?

The guy in top owns the outcome -

I DID trust and buy into lutz and GM.

a swan dive to the street is what I got. The chunk i put into GM - gone.
Coming form a family that once had an olds dealership this was hard.

Perhaps I may be a bit more emotional than the dollars (that were substantive) because with better leadership they could have pulled it off.

UD

 

[Uncle Dave]

BTW - my day job boss bought one of the new roadsters - he wasnt happy with the way its gone down so far.

cool thing is Ill get to drive one.

UD

 

[AzGeo]

The guy in top owns the outcome -

I DID trust and buy into lutz and GM.

a swan dive to the street is what I got. The chunk i put into GM - gone.
Coming form a family that once had an olds dealership this was hard.

Perhaps I may be a bit more emotional than the dollars (that were substantive) because with better leadership they could have pulled it off.

UD

I had GM stock from being a Pontiac Zone Rep/trouble shooter, and a Proving Grounds Engineer for a number of years .

GM stock has never paid off, since they always "charge off plant changes" and end up with minimal profits (taxable profits) . I've known this since the 70's when I worked there .

GM GAVE ME free "Delphi" stock at one point, just after they bought the company from Ross Perot . They had "always" planned to steal all the technology and then DUMP the name and take a "tax right off" ASAP . They also "split stocks", and still never paid more than 25 cents per unit per quarter .

GM brought Lutz in because of his performance (s) at Mopar . The Viper, their "rapid, advanced, design to road engineering complex", and he was able to speak with knowledge and candor to the press .

To blame Lutz for the "cabal" that actually runs GM, is a misnomer, and I am happy to report that he didn't go insane, trying to push thru any of his projects .

During WWII and thru the 50's and into the 60's, GM was lead by "smart designers and auto business people", while middle management was ALL MILITARY TRAINED personnel . The order and efficiency of the production aspect of the company was "world class" on every level .

In the mid 60's the unions started to "create pressures", seeing GM's huge bottom line and wanting a piece of it .

While fending off "labor attacks", GM CUT COSTS and tried to go forward with "old ideas and old designs" . It didn't work, and they never should have done it .

GM hired MORE BEAN COUNTERS, and that was the "beginning of the end" for a quality company and their quality products .

EVERYTHING after the late 60's, went from the design studios, to the engineers, to the bean counters, back to the engineers (for cheapening the products), down to the assembly plant engineers, who rammed the assembly processes down the necks of the union workers .

At the proving Grounds Lab (Van Nuys Calif) we would create live test vehicles and test fixtures for our given tasks . ALL of our measurements, and results were put into a computer that sent info (fax like) to GM in Lansing, Moraine, Tonawanda, and all points east of California .

They PLANNED to use this info to avoid doing "actual road testing" in the future .

Just like "climate change modeling", so too does GM use, "real world testing data" .

We all know how that's working .

Lutz was in the public eye at GM, but FAR down the food chain when financials of the company are the focus .............

 

[SBMech]

The guy in top owns the outcome -

I DID trust and buy into lutz and GM.

a swan dive to the street is what I got. The chunk i put into GM - gone.
Coming form a family that once had an olds dealership this was hard.

Perhaps I may be a bit more emotional than the dollars (that were substantive) because with better leadership they could have pulled it off.

UD

You have to admit however that Lutz just took the fall for other management's terrible decisions. As the figurehead he gets the blame.

 

[spectra3279]

By incentivizing - making power dirt cheap - during times of lowest demand, and/or making it very expensive when they don't want you to use it.

They do that currently with EV- TOU (Time Of Use) plans.

When I lived in CA I was on that plan. Power was super pricey in the day when no one was home at our house...our power bill went down slightly after I got my electric car, even though power use went up.

I paid:
$0.15/kWh super off peak (10pm - 6am)
$0.30/kWh off peak (6am - 8am, 8pm - 10pm)
$0.45/kWh peak (8am - 8pm)

Happily, I've got a flat rate in Dallas.
$0.067/kWh 24/7


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Then on top of that, ad the tiered usage fees. It's fucked

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

 

[Dalton]

oil wont last forever, im amazed by how much we use, like its water, something has to change, we may be living in the golden age and not even know it in relation to technology and fuel availability

 

[pronstar]

I'm still pondering, with all my solar power, do I buy a haul-ass Tesla-90 ludicrous (Not a 3 for sure --- damned ugly) or grow pot ?

Yes.
The answer is yes

You have to admit however that Lutz just took the fall for other management's terrible decisions. As the figurehead he gets the blame.

I dunno if Lutz was the fall guy...I think Rick Wagoner took most of the hit.
Without Lutz, GM would have had few products worth saving IMHO
Lutz is still pretty publicly well-respected in the auto industry.

Rick Wagoner is nowhere publicly, enjoying his $20 million retirement package (on top of the millions he earned as CEO).
I think he's on the board of a few companies, but has a low public profile.

 

[WhatExit?]

Some of you guys are hilarious..."the cost to defend oil - 5th fleet in the Straits of Hormuz" etc., etc. It's not oil it's the world's economy. If/when the world can switch to electricity and give up on oil/gas/natural gas you may see the "savings" from not protecting oil (global infrastructure) but until then - and that's a long way off - you're gonna continue tilting at windmills with your idealistic fantasies.

And whoever said "Nicola" (sic) - it's "Nikola" is Tesla - that's wrong. Nikola is a competitor to Tesla.