Sum Ting Wong - China Balloon update

[Taboma]

The balloon could have been punctured to let the gas escape slowly instead of destroying it, let it land in an open area in the Alaskan tundra, thus giving us access to a mostly undamaged payload.

This type of balloon is classified as "Super Pressure" type. So take a pin and prick a hole in a pressurized party balloon and let me know if the air slowly leaks out.

 

[rrrr]

I understood using altitude with the stratosphere to adjust direction change, but I wasn't clear on how the gas was released and refilled into the envelope in order to cause a significant weight change to control other than a general trajectory change.

It seemed as if a pressurized storage tank's weight would vary as the gas was released and refilled, and that all you were doing is moving it from one container to another. Perhaps the answer is in the pressurization or depressurization differential between the tank and super pressurized envelope.
Of course there remains the need to adjust for day-night temperature variations.

I've read that the super pressurized balloon that NASA back in 2011 was constantly being improved upon, especially in regards to perfecting trajectory control, they just didn't elaborate much on the mechanics.
They long term goals included doing very similar to what apparently the Chinese are doing, but at close to double the altitude, well over 100,000', this would certainly serve to make the balloon less obvious to observers as was the case with this not so stealth Chinese one.
Thanks

The gas stored in the pressurized tanks is not returned to storage to maintain a certain altitude or decrease that altitude. It is vented to the atmosphere. The weight of the gas is negligible compared to the storage containers. Hydrogen is the lightest element.

Those tanks are under extreme pressure to maximize the carried quantity. A recompression scheme would require very complex and heavy equipment and a significant power source to operate it. The amount of gas required to be carried in the tanks is calculated prior to the mission using extensive computer modeling and study of expected atmospheric conditions during the flight. Just like the sport gas balloon, when the hydrogen reserve is exhausted, the craft must land.

 

[stephenkatsea]

Most unfortunately. missing in all this discussion is the infamous Lawn Chair Pilot, a local So Cal pilot of his homemade balloon arrangement. That guy was a stud. And perhaps a little deranged? His altitude control was conducted via a BB rifle held in his lap. All went fairly well after his lift off from a backyard somewhere near San Pedro(?). But, he had very poor eyesight and somehow dropped his glasses shortly after takeoff. This prompted his girlfriend watching from the ground, over a hand held radio, to demand that he come down immediately. He didn’t. After being spotted and reported by commercial aircraft approaching LAX. They said it looked like the guy had a rifle and a 6 pack of beer with him. (Later determined to be his BB Gun and some Gatorade). The usual winds from the West began to drift him over Long Beach Airport, where he got tangled up in power lines, which brought his flight to an end. Most miraculously, he was unharmed.

 

[Taboma]

The gas stored in the pressurized tanks is not returned to storage to maintain a certain altitude or decrease that altitude. It is vented to the atmosphere. The weight of the gas is negligible compared to the storage containers. Hydrogen is the lightest element.

Those tanks are under extreme pressure to maximize the carried quantity. A recompression scheme would require very complex and heavy equipment and a significant power source to operate it. The amount of gas required to be carried in the tanks is calculated prior to the mission using extensive computer modeling and study of expected atmospheric conditions during the flight. Just like the sport gas balloon, when the hydrogen reserve is exhausted, the craft must land.

Oh OK, so once and done for each re-pressurization, so this would be the limiting factor for trajectory change, using altitude modificaton.

 

[hallett21]

This type of balloon is classified as "Super Pressure" type. So take a pin and prick a hole in a pressurized party balloon and let me know if the air slowly leaks out.

So if that’s the case why not shoot it with a $10 round out of a fighter jet?

 

[rivermobster]

If we were jamming its signals (raspberry jam?) that act in itself is giving them Intel. How we jam and from where it is coming from is valuable Intel in itself. Stupid to make it that easy.

Should have never let it make landfall over any US soil, period.

Nice Spaceballs reference.

 

[dribble]

"the administration officials argued that the US didn’t move earlier to shoot down the balloon in part over fears it could provoke an escalation of military tensions with China or even a military conflict"

If this is in fact true then that pisses me off. Fuck them fuck their balloon. I wonder what Trump would have done. I already know. It would have been blown out of the sky the minute it entered our airspace and the pieces would have been mailed back to Xi's house.

 

[Chili Palmer]

This type of balloon is classified as "Super Pressure" type. So take a pin and prick a hole in a pressurized party balloon and let me know if the air slowly leaks out.

So maybe use a small caliber round instead of a 50 caliber or missile designed for destruction. Maybe use a little finesse. It’s a ballon fercrissakes.

 

[stephenkatsea]

Debris field is being described as the size of 15 football fields. If correct, that says location technology has determined the location and extent of the debris. 15 football fields is only .3874 square miles. (If I did the math correctly). Piece of cake for our USN and their abilities. Had they allowed the balloon to travel further to the east, it would have encountered the Gulf Stream. A very formidable current flowing from S to N. We once did a burial at sea, human remains in tact within a weighted and holed casket, at the extreme eastern edge of the Gulf Stream in that general area. We watched that casket take off like a rocket once it submerged, from the force of the Gulf Stream. The slope of the ocean floor is very gradual in that area. We were operating out of nearby Charleston SC. The burial was conducted per USN regs, which required a minimum depth of 50 fathoms (300 feet). We had to travel 50 miles east of Charleston to arrive at that required depth. Appears the selection of the Chinese balloon splash knowingly allowed for that. Any current encountered in 50 ft of water in the splash area is likely tidal, not strong, easy to observe and calculate. Give them time. They will recover this debris.

 

[rrrr]

Most unfortunately. missing in all this discussion is the infamous Lawn Chair Pilot, a local So Cal pilot of his homemade balloon arrangement. That guy was a stud. And perhaps a little deranged? His altitude control was conducted via a BB rifle held in his lap. All went fairly well after his lift off from a backyard somewhere near San Pedro(?). But, he had very poor eyesight and somehow dropped his glasses shortly after takeoff. This prompted his girlfriend watching from the ground, over a hand held radio, to demand that he come down immediately. He didn’t. After being spotted and reported by commercial aircraft approaching LAX. They said it looked like the guy had a rifle and a 6 pack of beer with him. (Later determined to be his BB Gun and some Gatorade). The usual winds from the West began to drift him over Long Beach Airport, where he got tangled up in power lines, which brought his flight to an end. Most miraculously, he was unharmed.

That guy is a hero to people all over the earth that do stupid stuff (including me). It had to be the pinnacle of bad decision making, but it made him famous.

 

[rrrr]

It seemed as if a pressurized storage tank's weight would vary as the gas was released and refilled, and that all you were doing is moving it from one container to another. Perhaps the answer is in the pressurization or depressurization differential between the tank and super pressurized envelope.

The released pressurized gas increases the balloon's buoyancy because when expanded it displaces a similar volume of heavier nitrogen and oxygen. Its stored weight in the tanks is the same as it is when that amount of gas is depressurized and released into the envelope.

 

[hallett21]

There’s reports that we just shot down something over Alaska

 

[RogerThat99]

I just heard that the Pentagon just released that the US Military just shot down (in the last couple hours) another object over the waters of Alaska. Hmmm.

 

[stephenkatsea]

As reported, recent object shot down was at 40k altitude. Within the range of many aircraft. Debris fell onto a frozen region of the Artic Ocean.

 

[Taboma]

So if that’s the case why not shoot it with a $10 round out of a fighter jet?

Other than the balloon being at an altitude that would require the jet to fire from about a mile below it, I dunno, I was on Army boats, not a stick jockey

 

[Taboma]

The released pressurized gas increases the balloon's buoyancy because when expanded it displaces a similar volume of heavier nitrogen and oxygen. Its stored weight in the tanks is the same as it is when that amount of gas is depressurized and released into the envelope.

I get that, I was previously thinking they had a system that would transfer the gas back and forth between the envelope and the pressure tanks. As it's apparently not the case, then this places a limit on gas use for a more precision trajectory control.

 

[Taboma]

Debris field is being described as the size of 15 football fields. If correct, that says location technology has determined the location and extent of the debris. 15 football fields is only .3874 square miles. (If I did the math correctly). Piece of cake for our USN and their abilities. Had they allowed the balloon to travel further to the east, it would have encountered the Gulf Stream. A very formidable current flowing from S to N. We once did a burial at sea, human remains in tact within a weighted and holed casket, at the extreme eastern edge of the Gulf Stream in that general area. We watched that casket take off like a rocket once it submerged, from the force of the Gulf Stream. The slope of the ocean floor is very gradual in that area. We were operating out of nearby Charleston SC. The burial was conducted per USN regs, which required a minimum depth of 50 fathoms (300 feet). We had to travel 50 miles east of Charleston to arrive at that required depth. Appears the selection of the Chinese balloon splash knowingly allowed for that. Any current encountered in 50 ft of water in the splash area is likely tidal, not strong, easy to observe and calculate. Give them time. They will recover this debris.

Plus well within US territory limits for both aerial and water.

 

[MK1MOD0]

I get that, I was previously thinking they had a system that would transfer the gas back and forth between the envelope and the pressure tanks. As it's apparently not the case, then this places a limit on gas use for a more precision trajectory control.

Altitude isn’t an issue.

 

[Taboma]

So maybe use a small caliber round instead of a 50 caliber or missile designed for destruction. Maybe use a little finesse. It’s a ballon fercrissakes.

Are you still debating if a highly pressurized balloon envelope can be punctured and not explode like a party balloon or debating which caliber should have been used ? Are you able to punch a small hole in a blown up balloon and have it release the gas or air slowly ? Now, if it's a low pressure balloon, like one you only blow up partially, fine, but that's not the case with this type of balloon.

Other than that, I'm not a ballooner

 

[Taboma]

Altitude isn’t an issue.

View attachment 1197959

All I can find is "Service Ceiling", meaning a normally prepped F-22 with armaments and fueled ---- is approx 50K feet, or a bit more depending on takeoff weight

F-22 Raptor

The F-22 Raptor is combination of stealth, supercruise, maneuverability, and integrated avionics, coupled with improved supportability, represents an exponential leap in warfighting capabilities. The

www.af.mil

 

[MK1MOD0]

Many resources say “ above” 60,000 ft. So basically they aren’t saying exactly how high it’s actually capable of flying. Seeing that an old F15 hit 103,000ft, and an antiquated mig 25 hit 123,000 ft, I’m guessing that F22 is FAR beyond the stated 60,000ft.

 

[hallett21]

Many resources say “ above” 60,000 ft. So basically they aren’t saying exactly how high it’s actually capable of flying. Seeing that an old F15 hit 103,000ft, and an antiquated mig 25 hit 123,000 ft, I’m guessing that F22 is FAR beyond the stated 60,000ft.

My thoughts are the same lol

 

[Taboma]

I can only hope when there's a next time, for damn near anything at all, those charged with making those all important decisions, start a thread about it on RDP, "The Answer Forum".
Our motto is "We don't just know shit, we know all the shit there is to know shit about"

 

[caribbean20]

That guy is a hero to people all over the earth that do stupid stuff (including me). It had to be the pinnacle of bad decision making, but it made him famous.

That guy was awesome. Forgot about that story. The BB Gun altitude control made him an instant classic!

 

[rrrr]

That guy was awesome. Forgot about that story. The BB Gun altitude control made him an instant classic!

I woulda loved to have been in the cockpit of the airliner that first spotted him at 16,000' and reported it to air traffic control. ATC be like "Delta 2143, please check and verify your aircraft pressurization system is operating properly and providing breathing air..."

 

[caribbean20]

I woulda loved to have been in the cockpit of the airliner that first spotted him at 16,000' and reported it to air traffic control. ATC be like "Delta 2143, please check and verify your aircraft pressurization system is operating properly and providing breathing air..."

Pilot easily could have mistook him for any Spirit airline flight. He was in the economy seat.

 

[hallett21]

Most unfortunately. missing in all this discussion is the infamous Lawn Chair Pilot, a local So Cal pilot of his homemade balloon arrangement. That guy was a stud. And perhaps a little deranged? His altitude control was conducted via a BB rifle held in his lap. All went fairly well after his lift off from a backyard somewhere near San Pedro(?). But, he had very poor eyesight and somehow dropped his glasses shortly after takeoff. This prompted his girlfriend watching from the ground, over a hand held radio, to demand that he come down immediately. He didn’t. After being spotted and reported by commercial aircraft approaching LAX. They said it looked like the guy had a rifle and a 6 pack of beer with him. (Later determined to be his BB Gun and some Gatorade). The usual winds from the West began to drift him over Long Beach Airport, where he got tangled up in power lines, which brought his flight to an end. Most miraculously, he was unharmed.

Don’t forget rocket man who trolled the flat earthers.

Or the Alaska airlines mechanic who went maverick.

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

I would check Hunters bank accounts and see how much the Big Guy got from China from this deployment.

THEY LET IT FLY OVER WHAT THEY WERE PAID FOR, THEN DESTROYED IT TO BEYOND RECOGNITION FOR A REASON! NO NOTABLE EVIDENCE!


ok.. must be my tinfoil hat typing again

 

[Javajoe]

Interesting article and link to a balloon tracking website

https://www.npr.org/2023/02/18/1158048921/pico-balloon-k9yo

SondeHub Amateur

Live tracking of radiosonde flights. Data via SondeHub Amateur. Includes weather overlay, predictions, and access to historic radiosonde flights.

amateur.sondehub.org

 

[WhatExit?]

Chinese spy balloon gathered intelligence from sensitive U.S. military sites, despite U.S. efforts to block it
The intelligence China collected was mostly from electronic signals, which can be picked up from weapons systems or include communications from base personnel.

Chinese balloon got intel from U.S. military sites, despite efforts to block it

The intelligence China collected was mostly from electronic signals, which can be picked up from weapons systems or include communications from base personnel.

www.nbcnews.com

Chinese spy balloon was able to transmit information back to Beijing

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/03/politics/chinese-spy-balloon/index.html

 

[Backlash]

Nothing to worry about, "The Big Guy" is in close communication with the folks in Chyna.

 

[4Waters]

Chinese spy balloon gathered intelligence from sensitive U.S. military sites, despite U.S. efforts to block it
The intelligence China collected was mostly from electronic signals, which can be picked up from weapons systems or include communications from base personnel.

Chinese balloon got intel from U.S. military sites, despite efforts to block it

The intelligence China collected was mostly from electronic signals, which can be picked up from weapons systems or include communications from base personnel.

www.nbcnews.com

Chinese spy balloon was able to transmit information back to Beijing

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/03/politics/chinese-spy-balloon/index.html

Anyone surprised

 

[WhatExit?]

I don't think our government would've either known about the balloon(s) or done anything about it/them if it hadn't been in the news. This government is so corrupt it's almost of no value to any conservatives in this country.

 

[500bbc]

Chinese spy balloon gathered intelligence from sensitive U.S. military sites, despite U.S. efforts to block it
The intelligence China collected was mostly from electronic signals, which can be picked up from weapons systems or include communications from base personnel.

Chinese balloon got intel from U.S. military sites, despite efforts to block it

The intelligence China collected was mostly from electronic signals, which can be picked up from weapons systems or include communications from base personnel.

www.nbcnews.com

Chinese spy balloon was able to transmit information back to Beijing

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/03/politics/chinese-spy-balloon/index.html

Trump said PUSSY!

 

[500bbc]

Anyone surprised

Not suprising when they openly own the PINO Jao Bi Din...