Sub contractor issue

[endobear]

Have a guy I put to work at a clients I've had for 5 years. Good customer. Just got a text from him that he won't be in monday. And that he called my client to let her know. WTF.
I've been running my business for 26 years. 1st time I've had a worker hit up a client for their direct contact info. Im so pissed. Am I wrong? If my hands weren't jacked up i would fire his ass tomorrow and do the work myself.
I'd like to snatch this dude by the throat.

He has done work for me off and on for about 6 years. He does his own deal and helps me when he's slow. He's no rock star but is pretty decent and i don't have anyone else to do the work.

 

[82daytona]

As long as he’s not stealing work I don’t see the big deal.

 

[yz450mm]

It really depends on his relationship with you.

I have subcontractors/vendors that are licensed/bonded /insured, and I will assign them a job and then give them the client info to make it happen. I also make it clear that they are free to discuss scheduling with the customer, but if pricing comes into play then that will be their last job from me.

 

[boatpi]

Contractor side note: We have put all on COD, two went south with a balance in the past 90 days. Partly to being very poor businessmen. Plenty of work.

 

[BHC Vic]

I might not be seeing the whole picture but i don’t think I’d have an issue with it. Good communication is a good thing, but I do understand the chain of command very well as well, so I could see that being an issue.

 

[Taboma]

Depends on the nature of your business and those of your sub-contractors.
If you're a General Contractor who regularly hires subs, then those subs being business people themselves will be inclined to act in manner befitting contractors.
In other words, business as usual, and communication with the customer should be expected and if that's not acceptable on your part, cover that before he or she is put on the project.

If you normally do the work yourself or having employees perform the work, then it's not unreasonable to expect chain of command goes directly through you.

Where it becomes really shitty, is when 6 months after completion and you're performing a good will call or performing a pre-bid job walk and find this subcontractors there performing work directly for your customer.
That is the potential risk for using a sub instead of an employee and there's essentially nothing you can do about it, other than never using him again.

 

[endobear]

It really depends on his relationship with you.

I have subcontractors/vendors that are licensed/bonded /insured, and I will assign them a job and then give them the client info to make it happen. I also make it clear that they are free to discuss scheduling with the customer, but if pricing comes into play then that will be their last job from me.

He's hourly subcontract labor.
I suppose I shouldn't be irritated. But scheduling and client contact is my job.

 

[Sbarry]

Really depends on the whole story: Client’s preference to lines of communications seems to be open. If not, then he/ she wouldn’t have offered the phone number/ email/ etc. As mentioned above, if he’s not stealing work, I don’t see a huge issue with this type of communication. He let both you and the Client know he wasn’t going to be onsite. No biggie there.

All of our contracts state that any communication to the Owner is through us. But it’s inevitable that an Owner’s rep will pass out their contact info and start talking directly with the sub. It definitely muddies the water and can 100% cause problems for you and your Sub. But it happens no matter how much you ask your sub not to.

 

[SPYLIFE]

As hard as it is right now to get people to work, I would suck it up. I'm dealing with more shoddy work in the last year then I have the last 20 combined. I hate it, but there does not seem to be too much I can do it about it at the moment other then working on an exit strategy to get out of running a business with employees.

 

[zhandfull]

Have a guy I put to work at a clients I've had for 5 years. Good customer. Just got a text from him that he won't be in monday. And that he called my client to let her know. WTF.
I've been running my business for 26 years. 1st time I've had a worker hit up a client for their direct contact info. Im so pissed. Am I wrong? If my hands weren't jacked up i would fire his ass tomorrow and do the work myself.
I'd like to snatch this dude by the throat.

He has done work for me off and on for about 6 years. He does his own deal and helps me when he's slow. He's no rock star but is pretty decent and i don't have anyone else to do the work.

Well I guess the advance notice is better than none at all.

 

[Bobby V]

He's hourly subcontract labor.
I suppose I shouldn't be irritated. But scheduling and client contact is my job.

When I was the field superintendent I told my foreman not to schedule the work with the GC or customer since I may have already scheduled him / her at another project.

 

[zhandfull]

Contractor side note: We have put all on COD, two went south with a balance in the past 90 days. Partly to being very poor businessmen. Plenty of work.

As a material supplier does your company prelim each project that were not COD?

 

[77charger]

I dont see an issue as communication is imporatant.Id rather be contacted knowing someone will not make it vs waiting all day wondering.

We are basically subs as well and at times we have the homeowners contact info and if i am running late to a job i can simply call them way ahead and tell them i am running late wont be there til a certain time and they appreciate it as they can go do what they needed to do that day and be back at home when i get there.

My timeframes are usually a 2hr window and if i know i will be after the window i will call.Other times i try and call the contractor and they might not even answer the phone at all.Very rarely happens i run late usually takes a fwy closure or something major though.

 

[LuauLounge]

I’m puzzled over this. Obviously has your trust and the ability to work alone, sees himself as a part of your operation and wants to ensure that the customer isn’t left in the dark on Monday.

 

[endobear]

Depends on the nature of your business and those of your sub-contractors.
If you're a General Contractor who regularly hires subs, then those subs being business people themselves will be inclined to act in manner befitting contractors.
In other words, business as usual, and communication with the customer should be expected and if that's not acceptable on your part, cover that before he or she is put on the project.

If you normally do the work yourself or having employees perform the work, then it's not unreasonable to expect chain of command goes directly through you.

Where it becomes really shitty, is when 6 months after completion and you're performing a good will call or performing a pre-bid job walk and find this subcontractors there performing work directly for your customer.
That is the potential risk for using a sub instead of an employee and there's essentially nothing you can do about it, other than never using him again.

I'm a painting contractor. My guys are all hourly subcontract labor. Looking to change this.
This dude in particular has his own shop. He only jumps in when he's slow. He did just hit me up to work for me full time.

I'm a little concerned he may try to swoop in on my customers. He's just seems like the type. Plus the projects I do are next level customs, all on referrals. Type of work every painter would love to have. He gets his little projects off Next Door.
Not terribly concerned. My clients all love me. Just concerned about how unprofessional it will look if this dude tries to get in with my client.

 

[FasterBae]

I’m a GC, and this is absolutely not tolerated and states in my contract the homeowner signs off on. I’m strictly based off referals (like you) and would put the stomp on this asap. My trades are aware of this and report to me if a homeowner is trying to work with them directly.

 

[Nanu/Nanu]

I wouldnt be too upset about the original ordeal. Everyone that needed to know seems to know that he is not going to be at the appointment on Monday. I would let him and the customer hash out the reschedule versus trying to to get in the middle. However if the reschedule just wont happen this is where you step back in or reach out to the customer to let them know you are there for them.

I think this shows commitment to your customers job how ever it shows your sub that you trust him as well.

If you're worried about your clients leaving i imagine they dont have any respect for you. My father in law was a commercial/residential painter here in Prescott Arizona for 30 something years. He had some big accounts basically on call clear your schedule come paint for us right now stuff. When they would drop him he would laugh... It usually would take one job with another painter and they would be calling him back begging for his work. This was his opportunity to raise his rates. He would test them to see how desperate they really were.

Point is if you know the service you're providing is top notch stand by it! Cheap labor isnt skilled and skilled labor isnt cheap.

Best of luck endo!

 

[Taboma]

I'm a painting contractor. My guys are all hourly subcontract labor. Looking to change this.
This dude in particular has his own shop. He only jumps in when he's slow. He did just hit me up to work for me full time.

I'm a little concerned he may try to swoop in on my customers. He's just seems like the type. Plus the projects I do are next level customs, all on referrals. Type of work every painter would love to have. He gets his little projects off Next Door.
Not terribly concerned. My clients all love me. Just concerned about how unprofessional it will look if this dude tries to get in with my client.

This is always a concern of those you hire, especially a sub, that are capable of the quality your customers are willing to pay for and realize the potential savings if they remove you from the equation.

I got stung big time by this and that scenario I described about finding him working for my client later, was a true story. That taught be a valuable lesson and destroyed a long term fellow boater friendship as well.
Not having learned apparently, a number of years later I sent an old friend to Arizona to run work on a few jobs and later discovered the time I was paying him for, he was using to establish his own business.
That wiping out a friendship with yet another boater and long time friend --- Yup, hire friends, that always works out so well.

I've got two guys who do work for me on occasion around my house --- both were the # 1 stars of other companies and now are going it alone and taking many customers with them.

Good Luck !!!!

 

[endobear]

I’m puzzled over this. Obviously has your trust and the ability to work alone, sees himself as a part of your operation and wants to ensure that the customer isn’t left in the dark on Monday.

I just feel he's over stepping his boundaries.

Really depends on the whole story: Client’s preference to lines of communications seems to be open. If not, then he/ she wouldn’t have offered the phone number/ email/ etc. As mentioned above, if he’s not stealing work, I don’t see a huge issue with this type of communication. He let both you and the Client know he wasn’t going to be onsite. No biggie there.

All of our contracts state that any communication to the Owner is through us. But it’s inevitable that an Owner’s rep will pass out their contact info and start talking directly with the sub. It definitely muddies the water and can 100% cause problems for you and your Sub. But it happens no matter how much you ask your sub not to.

Im sure he asked for her #.

She's not the type to be giving her # to a worker.

As hard as it is right now to get people to work, I would suck it up. I'm dealing with more shoddy work in the last year then I have the last 20 combined. I hate it, but there does not seem to be too much I can do it about it at the moment other then working on an exit strategy to get out of running a business with employees.

Yeah. Its always been tough to find good painters. It's been extremely tough the last few years. Had 5 guys bail during covid. Left my crew leader and I to finish a 6000+sqft ourselves.
Crew leader whom I apprenticed under 31 years ago aged out last year and I haven't been able to replace him.

 

[wallnutz]

At least he let you know ahead of time he was going to miss the Monday after the superbowl with the brown bottle flu , instead of sometime Monday morning.
Labor sucks these days. I would sit him down and tell him in the future if you want to keep working for me , you are the only communication between the client. If he doesn’t like that he can sit home if he doesn’t have his own work.

 

[RIVERBORN]

I need to know what “hourly sub-contract labor” is. Is this worker a contractor?

 

[endobear]

I need to know what “hourly sub-contract labor” is. Is this worker a contractor?

He works hourly for me. 1099. He has his own liability insurance. I cover his workman's comp. He is a painting contractor.
He wants to sub entire projects from me.
I won't do it. I've been down that road before with other guys. It never works out. My reputation is to important.

 

[500bbc]

Employee or sub contractor interfacing with clients will blow up sooner than later.
I have a clause in my subs contracts and client contracts that any interfacing in either direction with employees or subs is grounds for immediate termination.
People are snakes.

 

[Bigbore500r]

Have a guy I put to work at a clients I've had for 5 years. Good customer. Just got a text from him that he won't be in monday. And that he called my client to let her know. WTF.
I've been running my business for 26 years. 1st time I've had a worker hit up a client for their direct contact info. Im so pissed. Am I wrong? If my hands weren't jacked up i would fire his ass tomorrow and do the work myself.
I'd like to snatch this dude by the throat.

He has done work for me off and on for about 6 years. He does his own deal and helps me when he's slow. He's no rock star but is pretty decent and i don't have anyone else to do the work.

Sounds like he just wanted to do the right thing and be accountable to all parties.
He may not view the situation from the same angle you are.

If he’s a good sub / worker that you have had good luck with this far, maybe just discuss it with him and let him know to be sure to only communicate thru you moving forward.

Not everyone’s a buisinessman, you may be looking into this deeper than he was

 

[LuauLounge]

Had an employee go to work for one of our clients. At first I blew a gasket, but decided to take the high road. After a short time, the client realized that his skillset was backed up by our team. They are back to about 50% of previous revenue and he is working harder than he ever did for us.

 

[wishiknew]

He wants to sub entire projects from me.. It never works out.

No Way or he would already have a client base

 

[Havasu blue label]

He's hourly subcontract labor.
I suppose I shouldn't be irritated. But scheduling and client contact is my job.

Maybe you should show up on your job’s daily to check in with sub and clients

 

[endobear]

Maybe you should show up on your job’s daily to check in with sub and clients

Im on the job almost everyday. Unless im on another project. I work side by side with my guys about 50%.

 

[Havasu blue label]

I did a surprise visit to my guys this morning all good just checking in

 

[endobear]

Sounds like he just wanted to do the right thing and be accountable to all parties.
He may not view the situation from the same angle you are.

If he’s a good sub / worker that you have had good luck with this far, maybe just discuss it with him and let him know to be sure to only communicate thru you moving forward.

Not everyone’s a buisinessman, you may be looking into this deeper than he was

He may have thought he was doing the right thing. He's an ok worker. Good enough I don't want to run him down the road.
I'll be sitting him down and letting him know his place. As nicely as possible.

 

[endobear]

Employee or sub contractor interfacing with clients will blow up sooner than later.
I have a clause in my subs contracts and client contracts that any interfacing in either direction with employees or subs is grounds for immediate termination.
People are snakes.

What concerns me is when he worked for me in the past and had a schedule issue he would let me know directly. He never even contacted my crew leader. Didn't even have his #.
A bit shady in my eyes.

 

[Kachina26]

I'll admit, I had no idea I was doing anything wrong. I hired an electrician a few years back for some lighting upgrades. He brought in a drywall guy to do the finish work. I tried to hire said drywall guy for other projects. He in turn told the electrician who seemed a little miffed and then bid the job. I knew right away what was up, but had no idea that I had to talk to the electrician about getting other drywall work done.

 

[500bbc]

I'll admit, I had no idea I was doing anything wrong. I hired an electrician a few years back for some lighting upgrades. He brought in a drywall guy to do the finish work. I tried to hire said drywall guy for other projects. He in turn told the electrician who seemed a little miffed and then bid the job. I knew right away what was up, but had no idea that I had to talk to the electrician about getting other drywall work done.

The electrician can't act as general but asking him first would be courteous.

 

[Kachina26]

The electrician can't act as general but asking him first would be courteous.

I know now.

 

[Desert Whaler]

In my expderiences as a sub . . . it all depends on the general.
I've worked for some who make it perfectly clear that I'm there to work, and zero else.
And I've worked for others who say, "I've done my part and made some money on you already, have at it, anything you can get above that is fine with me".

Comes down to the laid groundwork & communication before the job starts.
Didn't really matter to me either way.

 

[4Waters]

Have a guy I put to work at a clients I've had for 5 years. Good customer. Just got a text from him that he won't be in monday. And that he called my client to let her know. WTF.
I've been running my business for 26 years. 1st time I've had a worker hit up a client for their direct contact info. Im so pissed. Am I wrong? If my hands weren't jacked up i would fire his ass tomorrow and do the work myself.
I'd like to snatch this dude by the throat.

He has done work for me off and on for about 6 years. He does his own deal and helps me when he's slow. He's no rock star but is pretty decent and i don't have anyone else to do the work.

Don't give into that smoke, it's these situations that test you, stay strong.

 

[Ultra912]

I need to know what “hourly sub-contract labor” is. Is this worker a contractor?

Hourly, not on payroll, cash is my guess. That's what all the workers want nowadays.