Starlink news

[DUNEFLYER]

Good stuff..

Starlink

High-speed internet. Available almost anywhere on Earth.

direct.starlink.com

 

[Racey]

Good stuff..

Starlink

High-speed internet. Available almost anywhere on Earth.

direct.starlink.com

Super cool to see it moving forward, I think someone posted here when they announced with T-Mobile last year

 

[Flying_Lavey]

I was talking to one of the managers at one of the Starlink production facilities and he told me last year that ever since the 2nd generation of the satellites, they have had this tech integrated in and have been waiting to get everything else lined up to activate it.

 

[Romans9]

This is great.
Been using Starlink at the house for 2 years.
Direct to call sounds interesting especially since in my neck of the woods (Missouri) the best cell phone service still has huge dead spots often for many miles while traveling.

 

[wash11]

This is great.
Been using Starlink at the house for 2 years.
Direct to call sounds interesting especially since in my neck of the woods (Missouri) the best cell phone service still has huge dead spots often for many miles while traveling.

That name is a blast from the past for me. GD.com Romans?

 

[Romans9]

That name is a blast from the past for me. GD.com Romans?

Ha, yup.
I signed up here just to post to you originally but I haven’t got around to it.
I have read your threads so I think I have a good idea about how you have been….so I won’t type “how you been Joel” oh wait….
Looking forward to taking a trip out west again maybe look you up.
We just got home from a Bar 10 trip a week ago.

 

[wash11]

Ha, yup.
I signed up here just to post to you originally but I haven’t got around to it.
I have read your threads so I think I have a good idea about how you have been….so I won’t type “how you been Joel” oh wait….
Looking forward to taking a trip out west again maybe look you up.
We just got home from a Bar 10 trip a week ago.

Great seeing you here old friend! Check in anytime and let us know how you guys are doing.

 

[wash11]

Starlink has been a game changer for us living out in the sticks. This cell phone stuff is pretty exciting for ultra rural communities.

 

[DarkHorseRacing]

I’m still unclear how this works. Starlink Sat is not a cell tower and nowhere as close. Cell phone can certainly hear it but does it have the power to talk back?

Elon was saying this wasn’t going to need new hardware in a phone to take advantage of it but I don’t see how it would work without a way for the cell signal to get relayed up to the satellite.

Anyhow sounds cool and looking forward to it coming out.

Despite the original announcement for TMobile they (magenta) have been super quiet about it so maybe they got cold feet?

 

[Taboma]

I’m still unclear how this works. Starlink Sat is not a cell tower and nowhere as close. Cell phone can certainly hear it but does it have the power to talk back?

Elon was saying this wasn’t going to need new hardware in a phone to take advantage of it but I don’t see how it would work without a way for the cell signal to get relayed up to the satellite.

Anyhow sounds cool and looking forward to it coming out.

Despite the original announcement for TMobile they (magenta) have been super quiet about it so maybe they got cold feet?

Found this informative ----- https://direct.starlink.com/

 

[traquer]

Elon's a mad genius. Sometimes I daydream about stumbling on an invention and just selling it to him for a billion to let him run with it.

 

[DarkHorseRacing]

Found this informative ----- https://direct.starlink.com/

That still doesn’t answer how a phone designed to transmit to local terrestrial cell towers now has the power to transmit to a LEO satellite which cannot be a similar distance away.

How much more power does the phone have to ramp up to get its antenna signal up to space? Does that affect battery life? Absolutely.

A text meaaage is probably a half second or less in transmit time vs a phone call. So when they launch text, you might not notice the battery life hit.

But when they launch talk, there has to be some allowance made in the phone design to account for the now long duration signal output to the satellite. Or you’ll have 5 minutes of talk time.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

That still doesn’t answer how a phone designed to transmit to local terrestrial cell towers now has the power to transmit to a LEO satellite which cannot be a similar distance away.

How much more power does the phone have to ramp up to get its antenna signal up to space? Does that affect battery life? Absolutely.

A text meaaage is probably a half second or less in transmit time vs a phone call. So when they launch text, you might not notice the battery life hit.

But when they launch talk, there has to be some allowance made in the phone design to account for the now long duration signal output to the satellite. Or you’ll have 5 minutes of talk time.

There is a reason the signal is 4GLTE and not 5G. It works over much larger distances. With the satellites being above the phone, there are way fewer physical obstacles between the phone and "tower". That combined with being able to turn up the gain, or amplifier in the satellite, it could do it just fine. And with how Musk has shown to operate, he doesn't launch a new product or service that doesn't use already prevalent hardware or infrastructure.

 

[Taboma]

That still doesn’t answer how a phone designed to transmit to local terrestrial cell towers now has the power to transmit to a LEO satellite which cannot be a similar distance away.

How much more power does the phone have to ramp up to get its antenna signal up to space? Does that affect battery life? Absolutely.

A text meaaage is probably a half second or less in transmit time vs a phone call. So when they launch text, you might not notice the battery life hit.

But when they launch talk, there has to be some allowance made in the phone design to account for the now long duration signal output to the satellite. Or you’ll have 5 minutes of talk time.

Instead of envisioning stronger transmit strength, think increased ability to listen.
This blog is sponsored by a company that sells cellular signal boosters, so naturally they're pointing out that boosting your signal will improve this connection and speed.

From an article --- https://www.signalboosters.com/blog...cellular-boosters-will-redefine-connectivity/

SpaceX’s second generation Starlink satellites will be equipped with massive antennas that will emulate T-Mobile cell towers, but from space. Elon Musk claims the satellites will transmit direct to mobile phones, eliminating dead zones worldwide. T-Mobile will allocate part of its mid-band spectrum, specifically Band 2 (1900 MHz), for this service. Once the project goes live, most T-Mobile customers should have coverage almost anywhere without getting new phones or plans.

The satellites will have about 2 Mbps to 4 Mbps of bandwidth to be shared per cell zone, not for each connected device. Due to its limitations, the focus in the early stages will be giving customers text coverage, including SMS, MMS, and participating messaging apps, practically everywhere in the continental US.
Cellular devices will only connect to Starlink satellites when outside the range of T-Mobile or roaming partner cell towers. Satellite connectivity will be much slower than standard cellular connectivity. Do not expect the same ultra-fast connection.

Even though the above issues have been reported in regard to Starlink satellite internet, it’s suspected those same issues will affect satellite cellular. Additional Starlink satellite-to-cell service disadvantages include:

Even though the above issues have been reported in regard to Starlink satellite internet, it’s suspected those same issues will affect satellite cellular. Additional Starlink satellite-to-cell service disadvantages include:

1. No Voice or Data Connectivity – As mentioned, the early stages of this service will only support text messages. For voice and data, devices will need to connect to terrestrial cell towers.
2. Limited Indoor Coverage – Since satellite cellular signals will not be as strong as cell tower signals, they may be too weak to penetrate building and vehicle materials.

 

[The Chicken]

Ha, yup.
I signed up here just to post to you originally but I haven’t got around to it.
I have read your threads so I think I have a good idea about how you have been….so I won’t type “how you been Joel” oh wait….
Looking forward to taking a trip out west again maybe look you up.
We just got home from a Bar 10 trip a week ago.

Another old time GD.Com expat! Good to see you here-miss all the posts you used to make back in the day.

 

[Romans9]

Another old time GD.Com expat! Good to see you here-miss all the posts you used to make back in the day.

Oh man Chicken Dan! Great times on GD.com. More to come…..gotta meet up with some of you guys on one of our out west trips!

 

[pixrthis]

I got Starlink after learning about on RDP and it's been a game changer for our house, I'll probably try any of the technology they create.

 

[DaveH]

There is a reason the signal is 4GLTE and not 5G. It works over much larger distances. With the satellites being above the phone, there are way fewer physical obstacles between the phone and "tower". That combined with being able to turn up the gain, or amplifier in the satellite, it could do it just fine. And with how Musk has shown to operate, he doesn't launch a new product or service that doesn't use already prevalent hardware or infrastructure.

sorry you are WAY off here.

4g/5g have NOTHING to do with "distances".

4g and 5g are MODULATION schemes. what determines the distance an RF system can achieve is the available output power of the transmitter, the FREQUENCY in use and the sensitivity of the receiver.

thats it.

 

[DaveH]

Instead of envisioning stronger transmit strength, think increased ability to listen.
This blog is sponsored by a company that sells cellular signal boosters, so naturally they're pointing out that boosting your signal will improve this connection and speed.

From an article --- https://www.signalboosters.com/blog...cellular-boosters-will-redefine-connectivity/

SpaceX’s second generation Starlink satellites will be equipped with massive antennas that will emulate T-Mobile cell towers, but from space. Elon Musk claims the satellites will transmit direct to mobile phones, eliminating dead zones worldwide. T-Mobile will allocate part of its mid-band spectrum, specifically Band 2 (1900 MHz), for this service. Once the project goes live, most T-Mobile customers should have coverage almost anywhere without getting new phones or plans.

The satellites will have about 2 Mbps to 4 Mbps of bandwidth to be shared per cell zone, not for each connected device. Due to its limitations, the focus in the early stages will be giving customers text coverage, including SMS, MMS, and participating messaging apps, practically everywhere in the continental US.
Cellular devices will only connect to Starlink satellites when outside the range of T-Mobile or roaming partner cell towers. Satellite connectivity will be much slower than standard cellular connectivity. Do not expect the same ultra-fast connection.

Even though the above issues have been reported in regard to Starlink satellite internet, it’s suspected those same issues will affect satellite cellular. Additional Starlink satellite-to-cell service disadvantages include:

Even though the above issues have been reported in regard to Starlink satellite internet, it’s suspected those same issues will affect satellite cellular. Additional Starlink satellite-to-cell service disadvantages include:

1. No Voice or Data Connectivity – As mentioned, the early stages of this service will only support text messages. For voice and data, devices will need to connect to terrestrial cell towers.
2. Limited Indoor Coverage – Since satellite cellular signals will not be as strong as cell tower signals, they may be too weak to penetrate building and vehicle materials.

anything from "signal boosting" companies is BS. these things do have a place, when you are in the sticks but they do more harm then good in urban environments.

startlink using 1900mhz (cell band frequencies) will be SHITTY at best. as pointed out above, the distance compared to the local cell tower is massive. this creates a huge LATENCY problem, that physics has yet to overcome. this single reason alone is why they are only offering text initially as text is not sensitive to the inherent latency issue. furthermore, the amount of bandwidth they have is MINISCULE. 2-4mhz per cell zone? modern cell carriers are using upwards of 20mhz x3 for each cell tower repeated over and over again with each new tower. what that means is the available bandwidth will be jamned with users, so data throughput will be a fraction of what the total bandwidth actually is.

 

[Taboma]

anything from "signal boosting" companies is BS. these things do have a place, when you are in the sticks but they do more harm then good in urban environments.

Most my ranch neighbors use them, along with antennas in order to get even marginal cell. They're all pumped about getting Starlink and getting off Hughes net.

 

[DaveH]

Most my ranch neighbors use them, along with antennas in order to get even marginal cell. They're all pumped about getting Starlink and getting off Hughes net.

and that is the ONLY application where boosters are appropriate, where you are a long way from a cell tower in a rural setting.

all these things do in an urban environment is pollute the airways and drown out everyone else. someone above mentioned how phone turn their power up and down, and this is true, its how interference is managed in a modern CDMA network, to the tune of your phone changing power levels 1500 times per second. this is destroyed when the boosters come into play and ruin the coverage for everyone else.

 

[Taboma]

and that is the ONLY application where boosters are appropriate, where you are a long way from a cell tower in a rural setting.

all these things do in an urban environment is pollute the airways and drown out everyone else. someone above mentioned how phone turn their power up and down, and this is true, its how interference is managed in a modern CDMA network, to the tune of your phone changing power levels 1500 times per second. this is destroyed when the boosters come into play and ruin the coverage for everyone else.

The only boost I'm interested in is on ICE engines. My cell phone lives on my desk and complains of being lonely and neglected.
If I could I'd own a jammer

 

[Flying_Lavey]

sorry you are WAY off here.

4g/5g have NOTHING to do with "distances".

4g and 5g are MODULATION schemes. what determines the distance an RF system can achieve is the available output power of the transmitter, the FREQUENCY in use and the sensitivity of the receiver.

thats it.

You obviously know way more on the technical side of this than I do, so I'm not doubting what you are saying, more asking an honest question....

Everything I have heard and/or read about 5G has stated that the tower range is nowhere near as far as the 4G towers. Is this not the case? Or is this a product of the hardware and not the signal type?

 

[SKIDMARC]

Using star link now!!

 

[DaveH]

You obviously know way more on the technical side of this than I do, so I'm not doubting what you are saying, more asking an honest question....

Everything I have heard and/or read about 5G has stated that the tower range is nowhere near as far as the 4G towers. Is this not the case? Or is this a product of the hardware and not the signal type?

so here is the deal. when 5g came out, the frequencies it was deigned for were not yet auctioned off by the FCC.

so carriers implemented "5g lite" by using some of their 4g bands 850/1900. it offered thruput improvements over 4g but did not take full advantage of 5g's ability for BIG thruput due to the lower frequencies in use. to get the most out of 5g some of the freqncies in use are up in the higher microwave spectrum like 20GIGAHERTZ

and therein lies the problem......the higher frequencies need to get the most out of 5g do not go very far. the higher the frequency the less it travel's for a given power level. thats why the cell companies now are turing to pico-cells....little tiny cell towers, very low power, literally just a couple hundred feet apart from each other. so yeah....for long distance use (like satellite) to work, LOW FREQUENCY is where it at. my guess is starlink has something up their sleeve later on down the road to get these lower frequenicies.

that is of course as long as Verizon, AT&T, etc etc dont have a conniption and try to get the FCC to keep their precious networks from becomeing obsolete.

 

[Racey]

You obviously know way more on the technical side of this than I do, so I'm not doubting what you are saying, more asking an honest question....

Everything I have heard and/or read about 5G has stated that the tower range is nowhere near as far as the 4G towers. Is this not the case? Or is this a product of the hardware and not the signal type?

This is mostly because they are transitioning to more smaller cell sites than fewer large ones. So they don't need a bunch of power, a bunch of power that bleeds over into neighboring areas.

1000 people sharing 1 cell site is way worse performance wise compared to 100 people sharing 1 site and there are 10 of the sites servicing the area of 1 giant site.

Microcells, tiny cell sites that can be on lamp posts for example. This is becoming the future. very inexpensive, and better redundancy.

Imagine being in a giant banquet hall, and everyone is talking, if everyone keeps their voices down and talks to just the few people they are standing next to many more conversations can go on and not spill over into the neighboring areas. If that makes sense.

 

[DaveH]

Using star link now!!

View attachment 1294119

This is mostly because they are transitioning to more smaller cell sites than fewer large ones. So they don't need a bunch of power, a bunch of power that bleeds over into neighboring areas.

1000 people sharing 1 cell site is way worse performance wise compared to 100 people sharing 1 site and there are 10 of the sites.

Microcells, tiny cell sites that can be on lamp posts for example. This is becoming the future. very inexpensive, and better redundancy.

Imagine being in a giant banquet hall, and everyone is talking, if everyone keeps their voices down and talks to just the few people they are standing next to many more conversations can go on and not spill over into the neighboring areas. If that makes sense.

200% right unitll that one asshole with his super cell booster comes in a drowns everyone else out. thats what the boosters do. the cell tower manages the phone output power level (how loud each person is speaking in the room) to keep the back ground "noise" (the sum of everyone talking) to a level the cell tower can hear each individual person.

 

[Racey]

An overview of how Starlink's Phased Array Antenna "Dishy McFlatface" works.

Utilizing a satellite dish that's the size of a pizza box to beam internet from a secluded forest location to a satellite revolving around the Earth at a distance of 550 kilometers is an awe-inspiring technological feat. What amplifies the astonishment is the fact that Starlink satellites travel at

www.linkedin.com

 

[Echo Lodge]

Competition coming!

Amazon's New Internet Service is Ready to Start Mass Production - Here is When You Can Sign Up For Its Affordable New Home Internet Service | Cord Cutters News

This week, Amazon announced it has completed the testing of its internet service. This also came with an announcement that Amazon will now start mass production of satellites for its home internet service. The goal is to start launching these satellites in early 2024, public beta tests start in...

cordcuttersnews.com

 

[Racey]

Competition coming!

Amazon's New Internet Service is Ready to Start Mass Production - Here is When You Can Sign Up For Its Affordable New Home Internet Service | Cord Cutters News

This week, Amazon announced it has completed the testing of its internet service. This also came with an announcement that Amazon will now start mass production of satellites for its home internet service. The goal is to start launching these satellites in early 2024, public beta tests start in...

cordcuttersnews.com

It will be a long time unfortunately, years, but in the long run it will be good.

Blue Origin (Amazon) still has not been able to reach orbit, SpaceX made it's first orbital launch 15 years ago.

There are 4,500 starlink satellites in orbit already, Even if Blue Origin had an orbital capable rocket on the pad today, it would take many years to catch up to Starlink.

 

[Gramps]

About a year ago when this was first announced, we changed our fire department cells over to T Mobile from Verizon. We thought we finally had a way (besides) sat phones to communicate with our wildland crews while on deployment in the middle of nowhere. On paper it looked good BUT............................the T Mobile local sell service is so bad we had to 86 the whole mess and switch back to Verizon.

 

[Flyinbowtie]

We are looking at Starlink as a internet provider.
Where I live I have a choice of satellite internet or a local wireless provider. No cable, no fiber, no DSL, no nothing. Heck since the state let ATT dump the landline system we don't even have a copper home phone line anymore.
We are on the wireless local business, and are happy with it but would like to begin streaming more, and this system can't handle it. Are the maps starlink has that indicate speeds up and down in various locations accurate? IS there any reason to believe they will soon offer a primary at home deal where you can take it with you for vacations in the US without buying the RV pack
I ain't a tech guy what say you gurus out there?

 

[Racey]

We are looking at Starlink as a internet provider.
Where I live I have a choice of satellite internet or a local wireless provider. No cable, no fiber, no DSL, no nothing. Heck since the state let ATT dump the landline system we don't even have a copper home phone line anymore.
We are on the wireless local business, and are happy with it but would like to begin streaming more, and this system can't handle it. Are the maps starlink has that indicate speeds up and down in various locations accurate? IS there any reason to believe they will soon offer a primary at home deal where you can take it with you for vacations in the US without buying the RV pack
I ain't a tech guy what say you gurus out there?

The speeds are excellent as long as you have clear views of the sky.

The reason they don't offer a flex pack where you can have the best of both worlds is because they want the fixed address customers to have the best possible service. They do this by having a max limit to the number of fixed address customers inside each "cell" the cell has to do with aiming the signal from the satellite, it's a physical limitation of the radio antenna system used by the overhead sats. This will not change any time soon.

Too many users in a single cell and the service begins to degrade.

If you need an RV pack you can just buy the extra dish and pause the service when you aren't using it. Having to climb up on your roof to take your starlink down each time you want to go on a trip isn't exactly practical anyway. If you buy the RV service and use it at a fixed location you are given a lower priority than the fixed users during times of peak traffic.

 

[mjc]

The speeds are excellent as long as you have clear views of the sky.

The reason they don't offer a flex pack where you can have the best of both worlds is because they want the fixed address customers to have the best possible service. They do this by having a max limit to the number of fixed address customers inside each "cell" the cell has to do with aiming the signal from the satellite, it's a physical limitation of the radio antenna system used by the overhead sats. This will not change any time soon.

Too many users in a single cell and the service begins to degrade.

If you need an RV pack you can just buy the extra dish and pause the service when you aren't using it. Having to climb up on your roof to take your starlink down each time you want to go on a trip isn't exactly practical anyway. If you buy the RV service and use it at a fixed location you are given a lower priority than the fixed users during times of peak traffic.

They also send signal from you to satelite back to a ground station that is connected to the internet and they can get overloaded, so amount of users are limited until ground station can catch up.

 

[mjc]

We are looking at Starlink as a internet provider.
Where I live I have a choice of satellite internet or a local wireless provider. No cable, no fiber, no DSL, no nothing. Heck since the state let ATT dump the landline system we don't even have a copper home phone line anymore.
We are on the wireless local business, and are happy with it but would like to begin streaming more, and this system can't handle it. Are the maps starlink has that indicate speeds up and down in various locations accurate? IS there any reason to believe they will soon offer a primary at home deal where you can take it with you for vacations in the US without buying the RV pack
I ain't a tech guy what say you gurus out there?

I have a starlink on my house that I just take down and move to my RV. I got a second cable which is permanent in my rv. Just plug it in and it runs just as fast at home anywhere I have been.

 

[mjc]

It will be a long time unfortunately, years, but in the long run it will be good.

Blue Origin (Amazon) still has not been able to reach orbit, SpaceX made it's first orbital launch 15 years ago.

There are 4,500 starlink satellites in orbit already, Even if Blue Origin had an orbital capable rocket on the pad today, it would take many years to catch up to Starlink.

My son who worked for Starlink and now Amazon told me they haven't launched the first satellites yet. They are having a hard time getting rocket space.
The 2 companies are fairly close together up outside of Seattle. Lots of Starlink people are moving over to Kuiper because they are paying at least 2x what Elon pays.

 

[manxman]

I make flat mount enclosures for 2 companies that use the starlink antennas. All I can say is, they are both very busy right now. One is looking at large contracts for mounting on first responder vehicles in another country. We are talking thousands of them!! Hopefully it works out, because it would be a huge account for us. I dont see why it hasn't been implemented on all first responding vehicles in the states. Seams like a cheaper way to go , rather than all the electronics that is used now.

RoamSat | Internet on the Go – OFFICIAL WEBSITE

roamsat.net

STAR-MOUNT Systems: Mounting Solutions for Starlink Satellite Internet

We specialize in accessories for your Starlink Internet! Anything from Mounting Solutions, Mobile Power Supply Boxes, Live-Streaming Kits, and Custom Projects with your existing Starlink System!

star-mountsystems.com

 

[DarkHorseRacing]

My son who worked for Starlink and now Amazon told me they haven't launched the first satellites yet. They are having a hard time getting rocket space.
The 2 companies are fairly close together up outside of Seattle. Lots of Starlink people are moving over to Kuiper because they are paying at least 2x what Elon pays.

Well 2x pay is what you gotta do to if you want to brain drain Starlink. Though I do wonder why Elon doesn’t have a non- compete clause in his employment contract for Starlink to prevent that.

 

[Singleton]

Well 2x pay is what you gotta do to if you want to brain drain Starlink. Though I do wonder why Elon doesn’t have a non- compete clause in his employment contract for Starlink to prevent that.

Those are difficult to enforce, when your company HQ is not even located in the US.
Elon is the type of guy that lets people walk, but will never rehire them once they leave.