Solar financing in Yuma, AZ. APS price increase.

[aka619er]

I just got a letter that APS is requesting another permanant price increase of upto 10% here in Yuma AZ. This has me thinking about solar again as this will never end. I am currently on an equalizer plan paying $225 a month year round. 4bed, 3bath 2500sqft, Pool, spa, AC at 73 all summer.

The last time I looked into solar was with Solar City at a friend's open house. They looked over my current annual usage and gave me a financed (not leased) system which came out to $239 a month. I was then only paying $215 so my bill would have increased to go solar. At that point they walked away to talk to other open house attendees and I took a quick screen shot of what he did.

My real question is what options do I have to finance and which is the best. I'm not willing to drop $35k in cash just to avoid a $225 monthly bill. AZ doesn't offer the options to add to property taxes and this system is $40k in just interest unless I pay it off quicker. Their plan according to the pic was 30 year at 4.6% so I would just be financing to keep the same payment.

Opinions?

 

[mjc]

I installed mine myself. Not hard to do at all especially if you have a comp shingle roof.

 

[Looking Glass]

I just got a letter that APS is requesting another permanant price increase of upto 10% here in Yuma AZ. This has me thinking about solar again as this will never end. I am currently on an equalizer plan paying $225 a month year round. 4bed, 3bath 2500sqft, Pool, spa, AC at 73 all summer.

The last time I looked into solar was with Solar City at a friend's open house. They looked over my current annual usage and gave me a financed (not leased) system which came out to $239 a month. I was then only paying $215 so my bill would have increased to go solar. At that point they walked away to talk to other open house attendees and I took a quick screen shot of what he did.

My real question is what options do I have to finance and which is the best. I'm not willing to drop $35k in cash just to avoid a $225 monthly bill. AZ doesn't offer the options to add to property taxes and this system is $40k in just interest unless I pay it off quicker. Their plan according to the pic was 30 year at 4.6% so I would just be financing to keep the same payment.

Opinions?

View attachment 833338

 

[Looking Glass]

73= DAMN, you can hang Beef in there. Do you really need it freezing ? Suck it up like all of other grunts and run it 80 when not home then turn it down to76-77 You would be suprised in that savings. IMO.

 

[Buggydave]

If you can keep that house at 73 in Yuma all year for 225 a month, you should be happy!

 

[Angler]

Keep my house at 71 in the Summer and 69 winter. I like it very cool when I get home...

 

[nrbr]

Sounds like you dont need solar at all!

 

[Go-Fly]

Why make an investment that is a push?

 

[SpeedyWho]

Seems like Solar doesn't help your situation, at least right now, who do you wanna pay APS or some solar company. Then you need to think about paying for equipment that's outdated long before it's paid off, damage to your roof and possible leaks, poor installation these solar guys don't have actual trained electriacians(I used to be a building inspector I've seen some shit), and if you sell a lot of people don't want a house with solar on it. Unless you own the panels outright it's not a good deal.

 

[boatpi]

WOW, 40K is crazy money for you size of house. I had my Vegas house at 3,700 square feet, pool, garage AC, and added extra panels all LG top of line for 37K.

See if thot electric provider offers any rebate and don't forget the 26% federal tax credit, and NEVER lease.

 

[Looking Glass]

Keep my house at 71 in the Summer and 69 winter. I like it very cool when I get home...

YEA!!= You live in YUMA?

 

[WhatExit?]

I've looked at solar twice since moving here to AZ and our utility, SRP, makes it financially unattractive by lowering the cost of electricity once you have solar installed. The ROI sucks so the only ones with solar in this sun-drenched area are the idealists who want to say they've got solar


Speaking of solar - here's $1B we'll never get back plus look at what they did to the desert:
https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/a30472835/crescent-dunes-solar-plant/

 

[boatpi]

My solar energy production.

 

[SoCalDave]

Last year I looked into going solar as well. Talked to a couple of different companies and 10 panel was in the $18k range on a 15 year loan at $102 per month payment and that was with them taking the tax credit.
Then looked into kits and was pleasantly surprised to see that I could purchase a 12 panel (made in America) system for about $6-7k and do the install myself. I think it would require hiring an licensed electrician to tie it into your main service but that cost should be minimal.
They'll do all the planning for you.

https://www.wholesalesolar.com

 

[aka619er]

Sounds like is still doesn't make financial sense to go solar yet. I just know they are going to keep raising rates. Seems like its every couple of years.

 

[pronstar]

I’ve got to think the price of a solar instal will come down at some point...?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[aka619er]

Last year I looked into going solar as well. Talked to a couple of different companies and 10 panel was in the $18k range on a 15 year loan at $102 per month payment and that was with them taking the tax credit.
Then looked into kits and was pleasantly surprised to see that I could purchase a 12 panel (made in America) system for about $6-7k and do the install myself. I think it would require hiring an licensed electrician to tie it into your main service but that cost should be minimal.
They'll do all the planning for you.

https://www.wholesalesolar.com

I just did the evaluation and got a quote. Matching solar city's numbers it came out to about $18k before the 26% rebate for a 12.42kw system. So call it $13k plus installation. 4-5 year return on investment. I'm a fan of that.

 

[mjc]

Last year I looked into going solar as well. Talked to a couple of different companies and 10 panel was in the $18k range on a 15 year loan at $102 per month payment and that was with them taking the tax credit.
Then looked into kits and was pleasantly surprised to see that I could purchase a 12 panel (made in America) system for about $6-7k and do the install myself. I think it would require hiring an licensed electrician to tie it into your main service but that cost should be minimal.
They'll do all the planning for you.

https://www.wholesalesolar.com

The tie in is really easy you just need a bottom spot in the breaker panel. If you have a panel with the main In the middle then the panel next to be changed out. The rules want the solar coming in the last spot below the main, no real reason other than they want it there.

 

[BasilHayden]

Unfortunately I wont be able to help with the install, but I can help explain. I just cant justify selling in AZ, it just doesnt reach a return I think makes sense yet.

aka619er - Good Questions and you are looking at this the right way. I will try to walk through their info and show you a few more things to look for.

The last time I looked into solar was with Solar City at a friend's open house. They looked over my current annual usage and gave me a financed (not leased) system which came out to $239 a month. I was then only paying $215 so my bill would have increased to go solar. At that point they walked away to talk to other open house attendees and I took a quick screen shot of what he did.

My real question is what options do I have to finance and which is the best. I'm not willing to drop $35k in cash just to avoid a $225 monthly bill. AZ doesn't offer the options to add to property taxes and this system is $40k in just interest unless I pay it off quicker. Their plan according to the pic was 30 year at 4.6% so I would just be financing to keep the same payment.

So first Solar City/Tesla = run away. Frankly this applies to all of the national companies such as Sunrun and Vivant as well. Just google, yelp etc and you will see why.

If you are looking for solar anywhere look for a strong regional installer with a strong reputation. Make sure they have been around for a few years and have good reviews. Look them up on the CSLB website and see if they are properly licensed and insured. Is their management stable or have they been hiring their licenses every other year, if so be careful. Those of us in the trades understand what I just said. You are looking for an electrician, not a solar contractor. Solar contractor means they are licensed to install water and pool solar. They can put PV panels on the house but they are supposed to hire an electrician to wire it to your main service panel.

Next what is important in a PV Solar System
1 -buy dont lease
2 -cash not finance; use the shortest possible loan term you can if you are going to finance
3 -equipment matters there is a huge difference between quality and the cheap chinese shit sold to 90% of the jobs. For a residential system you want Korean panels and enphase microinverters. LG or Qcell panels are made by our freinds in South Korea, their warranties actually mean something. Enphase is so much better than their competitors its not even a comparison, just trust me on this.
4 -the install company matters just as much if not more, when something needs attention you want an installer who will answer the phone. I am now fielding dozens of calls a week from people who are not my installs, because that cheap mother who sold me this crap wont answer now. This is no joke, you save a couple grand and got crap backed by a crook who wont service you, well guess what I will service you for a fee, but you still have crap with a crappy warranty to boot.
5 -Monitoring - 3 words - per panel monitoring
5 -How much power do you want, not how much are you currently skimping by with today.

So lets look at this quote - to be fair it was 4 years old and was done by a company that is BK Yes SolarCity went BK and Tesla bought the sales funnel but not the old problems.

So its not a lease but a financed system or is it? Look at the quate name PVLease 11.395 $0. Sorry it was a lease they lied, they were lying at every turn. To be fair the rep probably didnt even know, but somewhere buried in the 78 page contract it was a lease.

Offset 85% of energy usage - This was a standard sales practice, still is. If you have the room on the roof always get at minimum a 115% system. I have sold close to 4000 systems now 99.99% of those people now use more power than they did, why because mama wanted the AC at 69 not 73. The real question that needs to be asked is, Is everyone happy with the current power usage or would you drop the temp if it didnt break the bank. By oversizing you are also protecting against the utility constantly moving the needle.
This system should have been 14-15kw not 11 and when reasonably priced it would have been just fine in Southern California, sorry but AZ is just tough to pencil.

So how much did this system cost - He wasn't even hiding it He was charging $4,5/watt or $51,278. In 2015 that was outright theft for a rooftop system, especially one built with crap Chinese components. In 2015 my systems were somewhere between 2.75 and 3.25/watt using LG with Enphase Lets use my high of $3.25 and his system size we are only $37,033. Today the system will use a few less panels but the price is still very close. Increase the system to 15kw I'm still less at $48,750. I had some competitors doing crap at under 2.50. He was selling you a payment, not a system. You were smart enough to not bite, but a lot of folks did and they got screwed. But wait it got better, even after the Federal and state tax credits of $16k he was at $35k but the real kicker is next, in order to get you the payment, he spread the loan out to 30 years, you would have paid that 225 a month for 30 years and they got another 41K in interest; The net cost of this system was $76K . Did he mention that the inverter was only warranted for 10 years? You'll need to buy 2 more of their cheap chines inverters just to keep producing power down the road, but that payment doesnt take a break. ...and the panels for 25 if they still existed to honor the warranty. I recommend a 10-12 year loan, these are currently about 6.5% with no prepayment. In California this will give you a reasonable payment and your equipment is only at 40-50% of its warranted lifespan when the loan is paid off. The last 13-15 years under warranty are at no payment.

Equipment - He quoted 43 panels at 265w/panel. In 2015 these were most likely a Chinese panel (Canadiian Solar or Yhingli were their favorites) Good luck with the warranties, since Solar City is gone and the wall street firm that owns the lease/loan has no intention of servicing you, but they have no problem enforcing their monthly payment. Solar City this was most likely a 2 inverter system or maybe a solaredge. In either case I can guarantee there will be months of downtime when these inverters without real monitoring fail. With enphase microinverters and real per panel monitoring you will know if you have any panel or inverter issues and they will affect a very small portion of the system for a much shorter timeframe.

Install - make sure to vet the install company they are who stands between you and your warranties. If you have to call another company to help you with the warranty because cheap guy is no longer taking your call, guess who pays more now. You are going to get what you pay for. Choose a reputable contractor and pay the small premium, it will be worth it in the end. By no means choose the national crook, they WILL screw you. Note this quote was 50% above the market rate and I can gaurantee you there is little to no service available now.

Monitoring - This is what stands between you and your installer making sure you are getting what you paid for. Demand per panel monitoring. That means you can see how each and every panel is producing daily. If you paid for 30 panels then 30 should be producing, not 29.

Buy more power - Lastly stop skimping and let your wife be comfortable, she will probably be more supportive of you upgrading to the 450 if she isnt sweating because you are saving money for your next upgrade.

Solar isnt right for everyone, but for most of us in California its a home run.

 

[WhatExit?]

Beyond the costs of the panels, inverters, software, installation, etc. - the issue is how your utility treats solar as they control your ROI (and the government controls the tax breaks which here in AZ are going down)

The electricity companies don't want solar. They begrudgingly "allow it" because they have to but it doesn't mean they play nice in regard to your ROI

 

[aka619er]

That is some amazing information. The company that SoCalDave spoke about quoted me this system. I didn't upgrade it to the 15k but this was a good comparison to the Solar City. Some place I read that APS will no longer allow a $0 bill or even a credit. There is still some sort of baseline solar bill users are hit with monthly. With this said it wouldnt make sense to produce equal to or more electricity than used just to profit them more.

And just so everyone knows its the wife that wants 73. Have to keep them happy.

 

[BasilHayden]

That is some amazing information. The company that SoCalDave spoke about quoted me this system. I didn't upgrade it to the 15k but this was a good comparison to the Solar City. Some place I read that APS will no longer allow a $0 bill or even a credit. There is still some sort of baseline solar bill users are hit with monthly. With this said it wouldnt make sense to produce equal to or more electricity than used just to profit them more.

And just so everyone knows its the wife that wants 73. Have to keep them happy.
View attachment 833488

These prices will increase some with good panels, but not a ton. fyi I wouldnt use either of those panels. See if they will offer either LG or QCell. DIY is fine if you are a tradesman, unfortunately most dont have the skill to do it right, but if you do its a great way to save. I dont do it anymore because the work ends up more for me as I end up making numerous house visits to explain how to. There were 2 exceptions to this over the years. One other thing, who will process the paperwork with the utility, thats where you need a pro in order to do it right in a reasonable timeframe.

None of the utilities allow a $0 system any longer, they will charge you to tie to grid, but you can get very close to 0 if sized right.

 

[t&y]

Why make an investment that is a push?

That's the sales pitch. You are betting on rising prices. It works for some, not for all.

 

[boatpi]

My monthly grid charge in Vegas with NV Energy is $12.50, and I paid that all summer.

 

[DRYHEAT]

Holy shit some of you keep your houses cold.

 

[Looking Glass]

Beyond the costs of the panels, inverters, software, installation, etc. - the issue is how your utility treats solar as they control your ROI (and the government controls the tax breaks which here in AZ are going down)

The electricity companies don't want solar. They begrudgingly "allow it" because they have to but it doesn't mean they play nice in regard to your ROI

?= I thought that you did not have a BOAT? Jet OR Otherwise. Just pretending?

 

[WhatExit?]

?= I thought that you did not have a BOAT? Jet OR Otherwise. Just pretending?

Who the fuck are you and nevermind - like you, it's irrelevant

 

[Looking Glass]

Who the fuck are you and nevermind - like you, it's irrelevant

I guess that means NO BOAT

 

[420HOA]

APS has zero incentives for solar they told me maybe 2020 for commercial properties, Ill wait them out on the commercial property and do the river house myself

 

[Justfishing]

What does it cost to stay connected to the grid with solar.

With solar you have to have a battery backup or use the grid as your battery. As more people adopt utilities have rethought their price structure. The have increased the fix portion of the bill and reduced the variable portion. Its a more equitable pricing structure but has the solar user paying more.

Solar and your grid charge will Surely be more than your current bill