Since cop threads are allowed back in the lounge....

[Wicky]

Based on some of the comments I'll post the picture so that people can ask themselves if this is "justifiable force".. Last time I heard heads shots were against the rules, not the target area... Give me a fucking break...
RD, let me know if you have an issue if I post the photo..

Thieves are a menance to our society...Period.
ONe less thief and the world is a better place.

 

[Flyinbowtie]

I am going to break my new rule of staying away from all cop threads to just point out that head shot have never been against any rules, so once again, "What somebody heard" turns out to be wrong.
Shooting is a last resort tool to stop the threat against you or another citizen.
Since the early 60's, civilians have had access to body armor.
That was never more apparent than the North Hollywood Bank robbery.
It was actually on TV, where most people get their information.
Officers are trained to fire to stop the threat.
If a suspect is wearing body armor, no pistol caliber issued by any dept will penetrate it.
Head shot might be the only way for the peace officer to avoid getting killed.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

Maybe if all the thieves in this country knew that this would happen to them there would be no more thieves. Fuck thieves!! This guy got what he deserved, if in fact he was a thief.

That's about the dumbest, ignorant, fuck-headed thing I've ever read on here.

We'll find him not-guilty posthumously. Yeah, great system you have there...

 

[Wicky]

That's about the dumbest, ignorant, fuck-headed thing I've ever read on here.

We'll find him not-guilty posthumously. Yeah, great system you have there...

Why thanks for the compliment!! I guess you don't mind theives and you feel our system is working just fine. How do you feel about Graffiti artists? I think their index finger should be cut off when caught red handed. Guaranteed, we wouldn't have the graffiti problem that has plagued our country.

 

[rivermobster]

Oh gee I don't know, maybe because when you hit a guy in the face the majority of time they will bring their hands up in defense which allows for much easier manipulation of the arms versus when they are tucked in tight to the body... That's just off the top of my head and your question is pretty open ended. In regards to this incident I don't know why they did and neither do you unless you were standing there involved. Hope that helps.

Helps me understand your point of view. Hopefully the truth will come out.

 

[Yellowboat]

why would a head shot be against the rules?( unless you were worrying about missing????)

if you are discharging your fire arm, deadly force is already in play. Since shooting to stop is the goal, there is not much better at stoping some one then a head shot.

Now shooting to wound, has been a no-no for a long time. to many bad exps with that.

 

[Dettom]

What do our LEO members think of the Fullerton Police killing that crazy homeless guy....who's father happens to be a retired Sheriff and is saying his son was murdered by the police.

This one looks like it will be really tough to justify. The picture of the guy in the hospital is brutal. I won't even post it.

Think any of the cops will get man slaughter charges or possibly murder charges as his dad claims?

Can't imagine why you would would want to know what we think? If we come to any conclusion that differs from yours in any way,then we'll be accused of sanctioning their actions. Most people tell me our opinions have no value. That is, unless they want to learn how to beat a traffic citation. And if only 1 out of 10 cops are "good" as Josh 909 opines, then that means 90% are really dishonest and are crooks and therefore have no credibility on the issue anyway. So, I'm training myself to stop defending my profession for any reason, and the way I do my job and just let the chips fall where they may. In fact, I may go down to Mexico so I can see how the cops are supposed to be.
However I do agree, the obligatory cop bashing should be on the political threads to make room for other cop bashing threads.

 

[gqchris]

Here is a better view of our Fullerton "heros" in blue at a different time. Different incident but supposedly same cops involved.

I so wanna post the pic of this guy in the ICU. Maybe it will change some peoples minds on here that he "deserved" to die the way he did.:grumble:

police beatings caught on tape in fullerton ca - YouTube

 

[Dave Wettlaufer]

i hope something is done about these guys.

 

[LowRiver2]

Props to DetTom for post of the year.


This board and the posters may change, same negativity exists over the last decade.
exactly why I stay low key at the river.

Just remember torch holders, whenever you have to justify your post with"I have friends that are cops" you look as ridiculous as someone who tells black jokes and then says "I have black friends". You're cop "friends" if they really were, would tell you

there's a LOT to look at in any major categorical use of force, in custody death. If they tell you any less than that, they either have no time on or don't consider you a true friend to talk about the reality of the job/ what's entailed.

DO NOT TAKE ANY OF THE ABOVE POST AS SLANTED EITHER WAY ON THIS INCIDENT

 

[RodnJen]

I hope they froce the city to file bankruptcy.

Its sad that sueing for as much money as you can get is the only way to change things in goverment that should have never happen in the 1st place.

That's the dumbest post to date.

 

[Dettom]

Thanks LowRiver. After watching the video and listening to all the comments by the use of force experts and video crew who happened upon the scene, looks like it's solved. No use having any investigation because, after all. it's going to be biased anyway. Lets have the court of public opinion along with John and Ken, render judgement. Really, lets be honest, no one cares from the officers perspective, what happened. All that matters is there is compelling video and expert commentary by trained observers. Nothing else matters. Why even bother with involving the legal system? Why not just let the system works it's will and decide what to do in this case...oh wait a minute, that would be siding with the cops..

 

[Ultracrazy]

Can't imagine why you would would want to know what we think? If we come to any conclusion that differs from yours in any way,then we'll be accused of sanctioning their actions. Most people tell me our opinions have no value. That is, unless they want to learn how to beat a traffic citation. And if only 1 out of 10 cops are "good" as Josh 909 opines, then that means 90% are really dishonest and are crooks and therefore have no credibility on the issue anyway. So, I'm training myself to stop defending my profession for any reason, and the way I do my job and just let the chips fall where they may. In fact, I may go down to Mexico so I can see how the cops are supposed to be.
However I do agree, the obligatory cop bashing should be on the political threads to make room for other cop bashing threads.

Good post

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[LowRiver2]

Why even bother with involving the legal system? Why not just let the system works it's will and decide what to do in this case...oh wait a minute, that would be siding with the cops..

And if the system doesn't go in someone's "favor", well hell, why not start placing pipe bombs underneath patrol cars with pressure release switches to take out a few patrol cops.......

oh wait, that already happened...4 black and whites in LAPD circa early 70's.

History can repeat itself, fun fun. I'd be doing some extra checks under my patrol car in the next couple months, and if you think I'm joking or being over reactive, sadly I"m not. Already shot out an airship's fuel tank a few weeks back in the valley, guess season opener on "blues" is about to begin:skull

DO NOT TAKE ANY OF THE ABOVE POST AS SLANTED EITHER WAY ON THIS INCIDENT

 

[LowRiver2]

Wow, something positive? NO WAY.......

LAPD officers rescued a man during a suicide attempt off of the thirteenth floor of an apartment building on Thursday, and it was all caught on tape.

Officers responded to the building at 111 West 7th Street around 6 p.m. after receiving reports of a man in his early 30s distraught over a breakup with his girlfriend, according to a press release from the department.

"The most amazing thing about this is the officers' commitment to saving this man in the face of danger to their own lives," Lt. Paul Vernon said in the statement. "What you don't see is the man actually biting the arm of Officer Rick Linton, who in spite of the pain and the insult, continues to hold on to the man."

The officers were eventually able to handcuff the man to the grate and secure him before bringing in firefighters who cut the grate and removed it.

The man was transported to an area hospital for evaluation and was not arrested.

http://www.officer.com/news/1031312...rder=0 allowfullscreen id=vid_embed></iframe>

 

[LowRiver2]

Here's some more FBI facts:


In the Line of Duty
48 Officers Made Ultimate Sacrifice

10/18/10
Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted, 2009
Full Report

An assistant police chief with 27 years of law enforcement experience was shot and killed on an Arkansas highway after stopping a suspected stolen vehicle.

A 30-year-old U.S. Border Patrol agent was shot multiple times while on patrol near San Diego.

A patrol officer in Pennsylvania awaiting backup was ambushed in his police cruiser after responding to a 9-1-1 call.

These three officers, who paid the ultimate price for their desire to serve and protect the public, are just three of the 48 law enforcement officers from around the nation who lost their lives in the line of duty during 2009.

You can read more about the sacrifices made by these brave men and women in the just-released Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted, 2009, an annual reminder of the dangers of policing.

Of the 48 officers killed in the line of duty last year:

? Fifteen were ambushed;
? Eight were involved in arrest situations;
? Eight were performing traffic pursuits or stops;
? Six were answering disturbance calls;
? Five were involved in tactical situations (like high-risk entries);
? Four were investigating suspicious persons or activities; and
? Two were handling, transporting, or maintaining custody of prisoners.

Here?s at look at some of the other data collected on officers killed in the line of duty:

* More officers (eight) died from assaults occurring in April.
* More officers (13) died from assaults occurring on a Saturday.
* More officers (13) died between 8:01 p.m. and midnight than in any other time period.
* The average age of victim officers was 38.
* The average number of years of law enforcement experience was 12.
* Forty-five of the victims were killed with firearms, and three were killed by vehicles used as weapons.
* Of the 41 alleged assailants identified in connection with the 48 deaths, 33 had prior criminal arrests.

The report also provides information regarding accidental line-of-duty deaths:

* During 2009, the nation lost 47 additional officers to accidents while they were performing their duties.
* Thirty-four of these officers died as a result of automobile accidents.
* Other officers were killed by vehicles while executing traffic stops or roadblocks, directing traffic, or assisting motorists; in motorcycle accidents; or by crossfire or other firearm mishaps.

Also contained in the report are statistics on assaults on officers:

* A total of 57,268 officers were assaulted during 2009.
* Of the officers assaulted, the largest percentage (32.6) was responding to disturbance calls (such as family quarrels or bar fights).
* The largest percentage of assaults (16.0) took place from 12:01 to 2 a.m., while the lowest percentage of assaults (2.4) took place from 6:01 to 8 a.m.
* A total of 61.9 percent of officers assaulted were patrol personnel working alone, while 18.9 percent of the officers assaulted were working in pairs.

Why do we collect and publish this information yearly?, we hope that the details in this report will be used by law enforcement managers and civic leaders to improve safety strategies and training for those officers who put their lives on the line for us all each and every day.

Resources:
- Press release
- Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted, 2009

Now, Back to your normally scheduled bashing channel
Low-side bar-River:hmm

 

[Wicky]

Here's some more FBI facts:


In the Line of Duty
48 Officers Made Ultimate Sacrifice

10/18/10
Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted, 2009
Full Report

An assistant police chief with 27 years of law enforcement experience was shot and killed on an Arkansas highway after stopping a suspected stolen vehicle.

A 30-year-old U.S. Border Patrol agent was shot multiple times while on patrol near San Diego.

A patrol officer in Pennsylvania awaiting backup was ambushed in his police cruiser after responding to a 9-1-1 call.

These three officers, who paid the ultimate price for their desire to serve and protect the public, are just three of the 48 law enforcement officers from around the nation who lost their lives in the line of duty during 2009.

You can read more about the sacrifices made by these brave men and women in the just-released Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted, 2009, an annual reminder of the dangers of policing.

Of the 48 officers killed in the line of duty last year:

? Fifteen were ambushed;
? Eight were involved in arrest situations;
? Eight were performing traffic pursuits or stops;
? Six were answering disturbance calls;
? Five were involved in tactical situations (like high-risk entries);
? Four were investigating suspicious persons or activities; and
? Two were handling, transporting, or maintaining custody of prisoners.

Here?s at look at some of the other data collected on officers killed in the line of duty:

* More officers (eight) died from assaults occurring in April.
* More officers (13) died from assaults occurring on a Saturday.
* More officers (13) died between 8:01 p.m. and midnight than in any other time period.
* The average age of victim officers was 38.
* The average number of years of law enforcement experience was 12.
* Forty-five of the victims were killed with firearms, and three were killed by vehicles used as weapons.
* Of the 41 alleged assailants identified in connection with the 48 deaths, 33 had prior criminal arrests.

The report also provides information regarding accidental line-of-duty deaths:

* During 2009, the nation lost 47 additional officers to accidents while they were performing their duties.
* Thirty-four of these officers died as a result of automobile accidents.
* Other officers were killed by vehicles while executing traffic stops or roadblocks, directing traffic, or assisting motorists; in motorcycle accidents; or by crossfire or other firearm mishaps.

Also contained in the report are statistics on assaults on officers:

* A total of 57,268 officers were assaulted during 2009.
* Of the officers assaulted, the largest percentage (32.6) was responding to disturbance calls (such as family quarrels or bar fights).
* The largest percentage of assaults (16.0) took place from 12:01 to 2 a.m., while the lowest percentage of assaults (2.4) took place from 6:01 to 8 a.m.
* A total of 61.9 percent of officers assaulted were patrol personnel working alone, while 18.9 percent of the officers assaulted were working in pairs.

Why do we collect and publish this information yearly?, we hope that the details in this report will be used by law enforcement managers and civic leaders to improve safety strategies and training for those officers who put their lives on the line for us all each and every day.

Resources:
- Press release
- Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted, 2009

Now, Back to your normally scheduled bashing channel
Low-side bar-River:hmm

Well according to the coast guard and army corps, they would have survided if they were all wearing life jackets!

 

[kilrtoy]

WOW is all I can say...
FPD showed great restraint in the video....

 

[t&y]

Based on some of the comments I'll post the picture so that people can ask themselves if this is "justifiable force".. Last time I heard heads shots were against the rules, not the target area... Give me a fucking break...
RD, let me know if you have an issue if I post the photo..

There are already links to the picture and video. I am curious how you can tell me whether force was justified based off a picture of injuries after the fact. That must be some special stuff you have going on.

News flash to anybody that hasn't picked up on this little fact yet... Police action can be extremely violent and possibly deadly at times and still be completely legal and justified.

Props to DetTom for post of the year.

Yeah I agree, great post. I was thinking the same thing when I read HolyMoly's first thread opener.:thumbsup

 

[DAB]

The guys head looks like a smashed pumpkin..... But no excessive force used. When the city releases the video then I guess everyone will know if it was justified..

 

[t&y]

The guys head looks like a smashed pumpkin..... But no excessive force used. When the city releases the video then I guess everyone will know if it was justified..

Who is saying there was no excessive force used?

If we are only going on the stellar investigative work that has been done on here then of course it's not going to be justified.... Too bad this group wasn't the jury for Casey Anthony, trial would of been done at the first headline.

 

[rivermobster]

Can't imagine why you would would want to know what we think? If we come to any conclusion that differs from yours in any way,then we'll be accused of sanctioning their actions. Most people tell me our opinions have no value. That is, unless they want to learn how to beat a traffic citation. And if only 1 out of 10 cops are "good" as Josh 909 opines, then that means 90% are really dishonest and are crooks and therefore have no credibility on the issue anyway. So, I'm training myself to stop defending my profession for any reason, and the way I do my job and just let the chips fall where they may. In fact, I may go down to Mexico so I can see how the cops are supposed to be.
However I do agree, the obligatory cop bashing should be on the political threads to make room for other cop bashing threads.

Outstanding post. :thumbsup

 

[ROC]

Edit - Nevermind

Ya homos.

 

[Rexone]

Interesting interview on KFI today of an anonymous informant. http://www.kfiam640.com/mediaplayer...demand&feed_name=JohnandKen.xml&item=21297948

FBI is now involved
Cops not reassigned until after publicized 3 weeks after incident.
Cops allowed to rewrite reports based on video of incident.
I'm sure it was a rightious takedown though.
900K settlement offered before charges even filed, a bit unusual


Hope the dad will use some of the dough to help mentally ill get off the streets.

 

[RodnJen]

I caught the last part of that, interesting for sure. I use to listen to them more because I thought they added value to certain subjects, now not so much.

I am very interested in what the FBI finds out. All parties involved deserve an impartial investigaion.

 

[DaveC]

Sad deal for sure.

Schizo's can be unpredictable at times. The city has many of these poor souls living on the street. Certain streets are like a mine field with them sleeping on the street.

The SFPD/BART police are working on 2 cases of officer involved shootings right now involving severly mentally ill people. Both were transient, mentally ill people and when confronted by overwhelming police presence pulled out knives. Both were shot dead.

Sad deal. :thumbsdown

One incident had a surveilance video where the guy threw the knife at the cops.

Its pathetic that our society allows these severly mentally ill people to be left to rot on the street. They are only a danger to themselves and this is what happens to them when they are off their meds and slip into a delusion state.

 

[Letzgo]

Only one thing that I hate more than bad cops and that is thieves!!
Sounds like two birds with one stone in this case imo. Good riddince to both sides, if the statements I have seen/read hold true.

So if one day your kid fucks up and steals a candy bar or has items in his back pack that appear to be stolen we should beat him to death. I hate theives too but that is just a plain fucking retarded statement you made. i would even bet that at one or some point of your life you have done wrong to some one else that they consider theft.

 

[PVHCA]

The first video didn't show anything!!!

The interview video was anonymous(sp) so don't know what to think yet until proof comes out.

The last video where the FPD CLEARLY asks and tells the guys to back up and they do not, well sometimes people get what they deserve. The video only shows what happened when the cops rolled up not what occured before.

Alot of peeps here need to hold back their opinions until all the eveidence and proof is out.

From what I saw I can't say what the hell happened or who is at fault, L.E.O.'s or criminals.

My one experience that I witnessed with a violent criminal on drugs or a mentally challenged person was very scary, this man threw officers off him like rag dolls, it took 7 of us ya I did get involved to get him pinned down, 2 of the L.E.O.'s initial responders were women, they were useless unfortunately, IMO had my brother and I not been around it would have been horrible. We stepped away once the Upland P.D. had it controlled.

All I'm saying is without much more video evidence it's hard for me to make a call on this.

 

[PVHCA]

So if one day your kid fucks up and steals a candy bar or has items in his back pack that appear to be stolen we should beat him to death. I hate theives too but that is just a plain fucking retarded statement you made. i would even bet that at one or some point of your life you have done wrong to some one else that they consider theft.

Let's compare apples to apples here guy.

 

[Letzgo]

Here's some more FBI facts:


In the Line of Duty
48 Officers Made Ultimate Sacrifice

10/18/10
Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted, 2009
Full Report

An assistant police chief with 27 years of law enforcement experience was shot and killed on an Arkansas highway after stopping a suspected stolen vehicle.

A 30-year-old U.S. Border Patrol agent was shot multiple times while on patrol near San Diego.

A patrol officer in Pennsylvania awaiting backup was ambushed in his police cruiser after responding to a 9-1-1 call.

These three officers, who paid the ultimate price for their desire to serve and protect the public, are just three of the 48 law enforcement officers from around the nation who lost their lives in the line of duty during 2009.

You can read more about the sacrifices made by these brave men and women in the just-released Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted, 2009, an annual reminder of the dangers of policing.

Of the 48 officers killed in the line of duty last year:

? Fifteen were ambushed;
? Eight were involved in arrest situations;
? Eight were performing traffic pursuits or stops;
? Six were answering disturbance calls;
? Five were involved in tactical situations (like high-risk entries);
? Four were investigating suspicious persons or activities; and
? Two were handling, transporting, or maintaining custody of prisoners.

Here?s at look at some of the other data collected on officers killed in the line of duty:

* More officers (eight) died from assaults occurring in April.
* More officers (13) died from assaults occurring on a Saturday.
* More officers (13) died between 8:01 p.m. and midnight than in any other time period.
* The average age of victim officers was 38.
* The average number of years of law enforcement experience was 12.
* Forty-five of the victims were killed with firearms, and three were killed by vehicles used as weapons.
* Of the 41 alleged assailants identified in connection with the 48 deaths, 33 had prior criminal arrests.

The report also provides information regarding accidental line-of-duty deaths:

* During 2009, the nation lost 47 additional officers to accidents while they were performing their duties.
* Thirty-four of these officers died as a result of automobile accidents.
* Other officers were killed by vehicles while executing traffic stops or roadblocks, directing traffic, or assisting motorists; in motorcycle accidents; or by crossfire or other firearm mishaps.

Also contained in the report are statistics on assaults on officers:

* A total of 57,268 officers were assaulted during 2009.
* Of the officers assaulted, the largest percentage (32.6) was responding to disturbance calls (such as family quarrels or bar fights).
* The largest percentage of assaults (16.0) took place from 12:01 to 2 a.m., while the lowest percentage of assaults (2.4) took place from 6:01 to 8 a.m.
* A total of 61.9 percent of officers assaulted were patrol personnel working alone, while 18.9 percent of the officers assaulted were working in pairs.

Why do we collect and publish this information yearly?, we hope that the details in this report will be used by law enforcement managers and civic leaders to improve safety strategies and training for those officers who put their lives on the line for us all each and every day.

Resources:
- Press release
- Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted, 2009

Now, Back to your normally scheduled bashing channel
Low-side bar-River:hmm

Very sad to hear about all the attacts on law enforcement, but how does this relate to beating an unarmed man to death.

If the cops showed up to six guys beating one guy they would break it up, but when its cops involved they jump in and help with the beat down. Where is the good cop trying to stop the beat down.

 

[Mr. C]

Only one thing that I hate more than bad cops and that is thieves!!
Sounds like two birds with one stone in this case imo. Good riddince to both sides, if the statements I have seen/read hold true.

So if one day your kid fucks up and steals a candy bar or has items in his back pack that appear to be stolen we should beat him to death. I hate theives too but that is just a plain fucking retarded statement you made. i would even bet that at one or some point of your life you have done wrong to some one else that they consider theft.

Let's compare apples to apples here guy.

It seems like he was comparing apple to apples.... Stealing is stealing. If wicky is ok with killing someone for breaking into a car. then he should be ok with the same outcome if someone he knows gets killed for stealing a case beer( or a candy bar). just saying. I do not feel death is an appropriate outcome for either of these but that's just my opinion.

 

[PVHCA]

It seems like he was comparing apple to apples.... Stealing is stealing. If wicky is ok with killing someone for breaking into a car. then he should be ok with the same outcome if someone he knows gets killed for stealing a case beer( or a candy bar). just saying. I do not feel death is an appropriate outcome for either of these but that's just my opinion.

I'm thinking Wicky was referring to violent offenders, maybe I was wrong.

 

[Letzgo]

Let's compare apples to apples here guy.

The guy supposedly stole a few thing out of a car. He did not commit murder or rob a bank. Where do you draw the line. He made a statment that he got what he deserved.

Do YOU think he should have been beaten to death.

Fuck apples to apples, this is the internet:

 

[PVHCA]

The guy supposedly stole a few thing out of a car. He did not commit murder or rob a bank. Where do you draw the line. He made a statment that he got what he deserved.

Do YOU think he should have been beaten to death.

Fuck apples to apples, this is the internet:

If that was the case than no he didn't deserve to be beaten to death, but like I said nothing on the video was clear enough to me to decide either way.

This is the internet and I can hit the keys harder than you, LOL!!

 

[LowRiver2]

I simply don't have time to discuss all the varibles in this case.

I will say this, I better never see another "fock thieves" thread where some poster says they'd like to kill the guy, (been posted on this site plenty last 3 years). Reality is this guy did break into a car, had a prior arrest for assault with a deadly weapon (not easy to make up that charge, even for arrest only).

John Kolbylt is mentioning a "one eyed" cop was involved on the show today.

Whatever the outcome, that officer was an LAPD probationary officer who had his eye SHOT OUT back in 96 in 77th Div. during a traffic stop.

Good ole' Chief Bernie Parks forced him out of a job, he was hired on at Fullerton. He had a good reputation there as a K-9 officer last I knew a few years back.


This ain't PB, so the thread stands....

I don't know the implication/outcome of those involved so we'll see what pans out/time will tell.

I know the area where the incident took place well, homeless and late night drunks/rapes/ADW's frequently in that area during weekends, holidays.

OH, and REX ONE,
YOU OF ALL PEOPLE:
I'D EXPECT MORE FROM YOU TO KNOW THE REPORTS THAT THE OFFICER'S "RE WROTE" THEIR REPORTS DUE TO A VIDEO IS SPECULATION.

To get to be specific, the pole camera listed is property of Fullerton. As is a dash camera on a car or an officer carried camera, it is NOT illegal for an officer to see a video prior to writing a report. Mind telling me what penal code that is??

I don't speculate boat repairs, moderating, or boat racing, appreciate it not be done from you here.

 

[Rexone]

OH, and REX ONE,
YOU OF ALL PEOPLE:
I'D EXPECT MORE FROM YOU TO KNOW THE REPORTS THAT THE OFFICER'S "RE WROTE" THEIR REPORTS DUE TO A VIDEO IS SPECULATION.

To get to be specific, the pole camera listed is property of Fullerton. As is a dash camera on a car or an officer carried camera, it is NOT illegal for an officer to see a video prior to writing a report. Mind telling me what penal code that is??

I don't speculate boat repairs, moderating, or boat racing, appreciate it not be done from you here.

Gary frankly I don't care what you "appreciate" I post or not post. This isn't your thread last I checked and as I recall you post your opinions quite freely everywhere. You can speculate on any of the above, not my business. I can speculate on this subject, that is what the thread is about. I respect LEOs for the most part but there are a few bad apples in every department I believe. What I posted was content of the interview I posted the link to. Of course it is speculative, that is the nature of anonymous interviewees. duh.

The FBI is involved...fact. Why is that? I would say they are suspicious of the circumstances and probably of Fullerton's actions. I find it strange that this came out in a London newspaper 3 weeks after the fact and then all of a sudden Fullerton thinks its now necessary to pull the involved officers off and reassign them. Why would they have not don't that immediately? Things that arouse suspicion.

The next 2 items were within the content of the interview. Are they fact, who knows. But it is a fact they are in the content of the video which was the first part of my post.

Item #4 is my opinion with sarcasm injected. I have a right to an opinion and based on the picture I've seen of the dead guy's face and head smashed in I suspect there's wrongdoing here. I have every right to post that and have the opinion.

Next item - 900K settlement offered before charges even filed, a bit unusual - speaks for itself. Why would anyone offer a settlement if there was nothing to worry about. Common sense dictates skepticism there.

My last item, since they already offered a settlement its likely the dad's going to get some dough. Hope he uses it to help some others. Plain and simple.

My first post earlier in the thread mentioned I hope there is an impartial investigation. Pretty self explanatory. With the FBI involved probably a good chance of that happening.

The fact that I closed pb threads of cops arguing with each other and polluting that forum with bickering has no bearing on this thread, this forum, or my posts. It was a completely different issue (in reference to moderating).

You just have a hard on Gary for "anyone" that says anything negative about LEO or suggests that some of the ample evidence that is coming out in this case might actually have an element of truth in it. That's fine I guess, but it doesn't negate the fact others have a right to dissenting opinions. I have not degraded your or other LEO opinions that LEO's can do no wrong have I? No I haven't.

Bottom line is I hope they get to the bottom of this and if the cops acted inappropriately and determined they murdered this guy, they pay for it. Conversely if proven nothing was inappropriate they should walk. I have no beef with you either Gary, but I do have the right to express an opinion on the subject without ridicule, just as you and everyone else does.

 

[kilrtoy]

HEY REX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I take extreme offense to your post!
Only I am allowed to argue with gary, If this happens again, I am locking this thread and you will be on a mini vacation, CAPICHE:champagne:

 

[LowRiver2]

The FBI is involved...fact. Why is that?

1.The FBI or Dept. of Justice will investigate when asked, on ANY use of force by ANY PD, a simple phone call by ANYONE can start that.

2. An offer of a settlement, while unique in the scale here, is NOT uncommon at all. You wouldn't know that MOST familie's of those killed (legally-IE North Hollywood bank robbers), get some sort of compensation from the municipalities involved.
(I'm hoping even RDP members had no issues with those guy's demise by us, if you do, go seek professional help)

The video is going to be PART of the investigation, findings of what happened.

No Rex, I don't always side with LE, you and everyone else here think that because I might just know a thing or two about this realm of the world, and what's involved, and you can't see past your own bias, and the white noise of media talking heads that spout off without little knowledge, or worse, putting out "facts" that are actually speculation, all for media ratings.

Is their chief behind the ball on this one? yes. Does that automatically mean corruption? No.

"Ample evidence" I now realize your standard for that is a much broader spectrum than that used in a court of law.

Time will tell what happened here, the rest is speculation, sprinkled with personal bias and I expected better from you. I clearly see I was wrong, just like the rest of the "type first, get reality later" My bad for even mentioning you, I should have known better, no different than the rest.

Carry on blindly like the rest:thumbsup

And on the topic of "cops" bickering on your site.

Ktoy and I have been on about a decade each, in that time, are you telling me there haven't been about 20 other members that have argued with each other over several times? Because we happen to have a certain profession makes it a problem? Weak Sauce to say yes.

This last exchange actually boosted your visitation on your site most likely. It looked like a morgue in there. You have a biz (that site, not your own), and sponsors so the constant banning, grey water diversions have made it into a sterile environment that frankly has jumped a couple sharks.

Won't see me get into that issue on your site or here, but since you brought it up, there it is. RD didn't have issue with our rants here and most likely was not a negative in less viewers/most likely more as well.

 

[Rexone]

As I said the truth will come out in the investigation. In the meantime everyone is entitled to an opinion. I have no problem with the truth even if it turns out do differ from present opinion. Everyone is speculating presently, you, I, and everyone that wasn't there. Human nature is to speculate based on info you have.

Its not "my" site either. I try my best, no thanks to members at times, to carry out Chris's and the admins wishes and instructions. Not more or less. Of course I always take shit just as now when any action is taken someone doesn't like or agree with. Such is life.

Be safe out there Gary, seriously, you guys live in a dangerous world. Not made any easier when incidents like the subject of this thread go down. Folks on the edge of cop hating get pushed over it by this kind of thing.

 

[AZJD]

It's becoming a sad scenario.

To protect and serve has become to pillage and beat..............

Not all cops are bad but most seem to be.

 

[callbob]

1.The FBI or Dept. of Justice will investigate when asked, on ANY use of force by ANY PD, a simple phone call by ANYONE can start that.

Ok that does it, I'm calling the feebs to look into this thread.

 

[LowRiver2]

Out of O.C. register today, article discusses severe mental illness of Thomas/ restraining order placed on him by his mother:


A man who was fatally injured in a confrontation with Fullerton police had such severe mental illness that county officials repeatedly described him as "gravely disabled" as they sought to have him committed, records show.

Kelly Thomas, 37, spent months in psychiatric treatment centers, a ward of Orange County, the records show. He was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia ? a disease that warps reality for those who have it ? and was unable or unwilling to seek treatment himself, the records show.
Article Tab: thomas-information-death-
The Thomas family is posted these posters around the Fullerton Transportation Center to elicit information and videos from a police fight they believe lead to the death of Kelly Thomas.
JOSHUA SUDOCK, THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER
MORE PHOTOS ?
ADVERTISEMENT

Police say Thomas struggled when officers tried to search him while investigating burglary reports last month, and it took six officers to subdue him. A cell-phone video captured the clicking of a Taser and Thomas crying out for his father.

Thomas suffered severe head and neck injuries and was taken off life support five days later. A photograph of his face, disfigured with blood and bruises, has drawn national attention to his death. The six officers have been put on administrative leave.

The National Alliance on Mental Illness on Friday called on Fullerton to undertake a ?comprehensive review? of how its police interact with people who exhibit signs of serious mental illness. ?All persons whose lives have been affected by mental illness know that such a tragedy could happen to any one of us or our loved ones,? the group said in a statement.

Thomas' family has described him as a gentle man, a drifter who preferred to live on the streets and who shied away from personal contact. "He could not function" without his medications, his father Ron said. "I mean, he became childlike."

Kelly Thomas has a record of petty run-ins with the law: trespassing, obstructing businesses, unlawful camping. But it was his first conviction ? his only felony ? that brought him to the attention of the county.

In 1995, Thomas pleaded guilty to assault with a deadly weapon after he hit his grandfather in the head with a fireplace poker, court records show. He was sentenced to several months in jail.

Thomas had a history of using drugs, according to a subsequent probation report written in 1996. He "does not seem to comprehend or express himself well... appears incapable of even the most basic functioning on a day-to-day existence," the report noted.

The jail called in the Orange County Public Guardian. In limited cases, that office can take responsibility for "gravely disabled," mentally ill adults and have them committed to a locked psychiatric ward. Courts call that appointing a conservator.

Orange County courts first appointed a conservator for Kelly Thomas in 1996, after his jail stint. He was sent to a locked psychiatric center in Santa Ana, the records show.

His father says he acted as Kelly's conservator in the years that followed, and sometimes had to physically force his son into treatment centers when he came off his medications. Kelly would stay at the treatment centers for a short time ? a few weeks or months ? before he was deemed stable and released, Ron Thomas said.

The county stepped in and assumed conservator duties in 2003, then in late 2004, and again in 2005 through mid-2006, records show. Ron Thomas said he handed over those duties when he "just didn't have time" to act as Kelly's full-time conservator; the money to pay for Kelly's care and oversight came from his Social-Security stipends. In each case, a judge found that Kelly Thomas was gravely disabled by his mental illness and could not care for himself.

A spokeswoman for the Public Guardian's Office did not return phone calls seeking comment.

Thomas escaped from one treatment center in early 2004, the records show. Fullerton police stopped him a few weeks later, but let him go when he refused to go with them, the court files show. He also ran from an official with the treatment center, who tracked him down and called an ambulance.

Kelly Thomas "hated" the treatment centers, his father said. He remembered Kelly saying: "Dad, this place scares me. I don't want to be here."

Ron Thomas has said he struggled in recent years to get Kelly back into treatment centers. He said Kelly's mother even took out a five-year restraining order against her son last year in an effort to have him taken into custody and sent back to treatment.

Her request for that restraining order says Kelly yelled "very loud" when she asked him to leave the front porch, where he was sleeping. It also says she had called police once before, when Kelly "held me by my neck and would not let go."

Cathy Thomas said this week that she didn't remember details of the incident, but said she and Kelly had probably argued. "He was never violent with me," she said.

Kelly Thomas was last under the county's extended supervision in September 2006, according to the court records. Those records do not show shorter psychiatric holds, which can be ordered without appointing a full-time conservator.

 

[Dave Wettlaufer]

Well, it's a good thing they beat him to death then.

 

[LowRiver2]

Not taking sides east coaster, just putting up info. From local media,
you have a problem with that?

 

[Dave Wettlaufer]

Nope, just being sarcastic.

 

[Jet-Daytona]

Not taking sides east coaster, just putting up info. From local media,
you have a problem with that?

DAMN,I just saw a picture of this poor guy,if these cops did do this nothing could be harsh enough for them.You can't even tell it is a human being.:thumbsdown

 

[t&y]

So now Fullerton PD is welcoming an outside investigator into their department to check the process out along with the FBI that's already involved. Seems the temp Chief is not afraid of outside scrutiny on the matter.

Along with that, and what I thought was even more interesting... Kelly Thomas' dad had a little sit down the the Orange County DA and talked at length about the case. In his interview with the media he said afterwords that he felt the OCDA might be relying TOO HEAVILY on the contents of the bus-stop city owned video (not the grainy youtube video) and needs to consider outside sources of info (obviously witness statements).

Much of what I've heard lately is that most people were of the mindset that the police department is withholding the video because of damning evidence... and now the dad is saying don't rely to heavily on it:hmm

So do you fellow RDP peeps think he wants to sway away from the video because it doens't support the witness statements???? or possibly the DA is saying the video is not clear enough and that is why he feels so far there was no intent???

 

[Deleted Account]

So do you fellow RDP peeps think he wants to sway away from the video because it doens't support the witness statements???? or possibly the DA is saying the video is not clear enough and that is why he feels so far there was no intent???

It's all about officer safety. The other vid where there are a bunch of guys in the street with just a few Agents working shows that. Get on the sidewalk or get out of my way. He didn't do it. He got arrested. That's how the game works. Hang out in a bar for hours and then give the peeps working grief when you roll out...

Pretty easy. You are getting interviewed, here's my hands and yep whatever else you want. You want to resist, it can get ugly. I have been to a few training stints where it goes hand on hand and "Hey look, where did that gun from?"... Fighting for your life. I bet 100% of the armchair boys have never played that game. Walk just one night in someone elses shoes...:hmm

 

[Moneypit]

I'm very aware that people can sue for anything. Again....this case is less than 30 days old. No civil law suit has even been filed. That the case is just starting the investigation - they haven't even interviewed all the witnesses....and you say they often offer settlements at this point because it is just cheaper? Got any proof? Because that sounds ridiculous.

If and when there is a civil suit filed, the first thing the Judge will ask is "Have you tried to reach an out of court settlement" It is standard procedure to offer/ask for a settlement in lieu civil filings...BEFORE a civil suit is warranted, and in most courts, a requirement...

It's becoming a sad scenario.

To protect and serve has become to pillage and beat..............

Not all cops are bad but most WE HEAR ABOUT seem to be.

A little fix there, we never, or seldom, hear about the good things cops do daily as "part of the job"... Entering burning buildings before the fire dept arrives, as mentioned the suicide prevention, lost/abducted kids, etc etc.. We always hear about the bad things, (whether true or not), but hardly ever hear about the good things because, Ho Hum, it's not news... AND NO, I have not reached any decision in this matter. YES, I can see what everyone else is seeing, but I can't see what everyone else can't see... OH, it is also standard procedure for a dept. to ask for FBI help in "highly publicized" cases just to remove the shadow of impropriety... I do think these officers should have been on restricted duty from day one, but again, I'll reserve my opinion until the fat lady sings...
Ray

 

[Mr. C]

http://www.ktla.com/videogallery/64...-Injuries---David-Begnaud-Reports#pl-62897241