Shootout drama? Wrong speeds!

[clarence]

How can both radars (or operators, if user error) be equally off?

 

[thmterry]

Do it.. I’ll bring my printout certifying how brutally accurate it is.



152 and slowing

McLaren 720s.

Did you write him up or just have fun catching him?

 

[BHC Vic]

Do it.. I’ll bring my printout certifying how brutally accurate it is.



152 and slowing

McLaren 720s.

My sons 4th grade teacher just had me at 148 in her srt Durango why a 4th grade teacher can do that it beyond me

 

[hallett21]

We beat the shit out of our equipment and they’re +/- 1 MPH.

So you’re saying there’s a chance….

 

[petie6464]

I said this last year when the fasted boat miraculously ran over 200 when it consistently runs 180's. Everyone went with it because they love to lick the boots of the big fish in the little pond.

 

[Singleton]

I said this last year when the fasted boat miraculously ran over 200 when it consistently runs 180's. Everyone went with it because they love to lick the boots of the big fish in the little pond.

Last year you had the modified run-up and entry speed difference, so speeds were higher. I think DS allowed for those changes to try and draw a crowd and allow boats to pull larger numbers. The changes last year made the course 1 mile for the faster guys (which allowed for the higher numbers). This year, they matched the LOTO setup, which was smart, BUT F’d it up again with the gun issue.

DS Shootout in 2021 and now 2024 has had gun issues.
How you let it occur again after the BS in 21 is beyond me.

 

[hallett21]

Last year you had the modified run-up and entry speed difference, so speeds were higher. I think DS allowed for those changes to try and draw a crowd and allow boats to pull larger numbers. The changes last year made the course 1 mile for the faster guys (which allowed for the higher numbers). This year, they matched the LOTO setup, which was smart, BUT F’d it up again with the gun issue.

DS Shootout in 2021 and now 2024 has had gun issues.
How you let it occur again after the BS in 21 is beyond me.

And to think predator and the guy in the 33 eliminator laid down almost 200mph numbers back in the day.

 

[Blackmagic94]

Dave, like i told you at cat fest


Time to host the only true 1 mile event from now on and kill DS.

 

[Singleton]

Dave, like i told you at cat fest


Time to host the only true 1 mile event from now on and kill DS.

That will not work.
Need to keep the course, the same setup as LOTO.
If you’re running a shootout, you have to compete against LOTO.
We need a LOTO West! DS had a chance, time for someone else to figure it out.

 

[CLdrinker]

And to think predator and the guy in the 33 eliminator laid down almost 200mph numbers back in the day.

Atleast Predator is believable with the longer run in.
The Twin OB hitting 140 is what got my attention. At LOTO they were in the 120’s

 

[Blackmagic94]

That will not work.
Need to keep the course, the same setup as LOTO.
If you’re running a shootout, you have to compete against LOTO.
We need a LOTO West! DS had a chance, time for someone else to figure it out.

No why mimic when you can innovate


Who cares about 3/4 mile when there are other events. Having a 1 mile means you have the fastest numbers. And thus you will get people coming for records.

 

[Englewood]

Shits getting ugly. The best years of DS may be behind us.

Commentary: An Apology To Our Readers—Garbage In, Garbage Out Is No Excuse

2024 Desert Storm Top Speed Shootout

www.speedonthewater.com

 

[dread Pirate]

No why mimic when you can innovate


Who cares about 3/4 mile when there are other events. Having a 1 mile means you have the fastest numbers. And thus you will get people coming for records.

I believe they shortened the course after the Outerlimits crash.

The events just need consistency. Competing against each other isn't in either events best interest. Working together would feed off each other and bring stronger crowds and participation in my opinion. I've seen it with music festivals. One doesn't have to better than the other. They have different, but similar formats. Selling out all of them would be a win for everyone involved.

 

[Tank]

Shits getting ugly. The best years of DS may be behind us.

Commentary: An Apology To Our Readers—Garbage In, Garbage Out Is No Excuse

2024 Desert Storm Top Speed Shootout

www.speedonthewater.com

When big Jim stepped away, it was the beginning of the end. Everyone else that have run it look to make
Money. For Jim, it was a labor of love.

 

[CLdrinker]

No why mimic when you can innovate


Who cares about 3/4 mile when there are other events. Having a 1 mile means you have the fastest numbers. And thus you will get people coming for records.

I think course size was an insurance thing?

I just hope everyone stays safe and not risk it to be top dog.

 

[HighVoltage329]

Other than the radar issues DS seemed to be very well run this year with a lot of hard work going into it.

 

[Blackmagic94]

I believe they shortened the course after the Outerlimits crash.

The events just need consistency. Competing against each other isn't in either events best interest. Working together would feed off each other and bring stronger crowds and participation in my opinion. I've seen it with music festivals. One doesn't have to better than the other. They have different, but similar formats. Selling out all of them would be a win for everyone involved.

Who cares. 188 vs 220 is still dangerous as fuck


What insurance problem? So insurance does a policy for an event with 199 mph speeds but not 200? Bullshit. Call Lords of London for a policy then.

 

[rush1]

Don't you use a tuning fork to calibrate a radar gun ?

 

[CLdrinker]

Who cares. 188 vs 220 is still dangerous as fuck


What insurance problem? So insurance does a policy for an event with 199 mph speeds but not 200? Bullshit. Call Lords of London for a policy then.

Not sure if insurance was the actual reason as I am not an event promoter. But yes insurance does place restrictions and they can make up those restrictions anyway they want. Just like insurance on a boat is different if you have 425HP or 1350HP.

But the ins and outs of that is a whole other discussion.

I do see a lot of opportunity here for Dave to apply some of his Hustle and grow his event into the premier west coast show.

 

[Englewood]

I believe they shortened the course after the Outerlimits crash.

The events just need consistency. Competing against each other isn't in either events best interest. Working together would feed off each other and bring stronger crowds and participation in my opinion. I've seen it with music festivals. One doesn't have to better than the other. They have different, but similar formats. Selling out all of them would be a win for everyone involved.

I agree...A weeklong event like King of the Hammers would be awesome.

 

[Blackmagic94]

Not sure if insurance was the actual reason as I am not an event promoter. But yes insurance does place restrictions and they can make up those restrictions anyway they want. Just like insurance on a boat is different if you have 425HP or 1350HP.

But the ins and outs of that is a whole other discussion.

I do see a lot of opportunity here for Dave to apply some of his Hustle and grow his event into the premier west coast show.

Let’s be clear there is no policy for racers. It’s a policy to protect the staff and spectators only.

 

[CLdrinker]

Let’s be clear there is no policy for racers. It’s a policy to protect the staff and spectators only.

Ok guess you have been able to read the coverage declaration. So you got me.

 

[RiverDave]

In the other thread he said he had 4 GPS’s in the boat and I think he said they were all within a couple miles per hour of the DS Radar speed posted. Seams really fast to me. I thought that boat was built with a Merc 600 if I remember right. Just assumed he had re-powered with the numbers he said was correct.

I was texting in real time with a buddy when instagram said he ran 140. We were both laughing what a fucking joke it was.

That isn’t what he said at all. He said they weee all within a few mph of each other and the DS radar was around 10 mph off on his runs

 

[RiverDave]

I said this last year when the fasted boat miraculously ran over 200 when it consistently runs 180's. Everyone went with it because they love to lick the boots of the big fish in the little pond.

Last year they were entering the traps at ridiculously higher speeds so they put up bigger numbers.. they were pretty much entering the traps at whatever speed they want. The numbers were legit, but the rules and enforcement weren’t.

RD

 

[DWC]

I hope the new owners figure it out. The new owner did a decent job setting up the street fair. It was well run and brought a SHITLOAD of $$$’s to the local businesses. The shootout had a ton of safety boats out. IMO. Way better than previous years. They need to dial in the radar and figure out how to get more participants. The first one is easy. The second is a bit tougher. I’d be surprised if it went back to a mile. We were at Desert Storm the year after the accident. Emotions on making it 3/4 mile or canceling were off the charts.
There’s room for both events. In the end, having 2 isn’t a bad thing for Havasu. It should help even more people drag their big stuff out for April. I’m sure the local businesses aren’t complaining. The town was packed for both weekends.

 

[2Driver]

 

[throttle]

 

[Bigbore500r]

Battery-aziz ! ! !

 

[McKay]

That isn’t what he said at all. He said they weee all within a few mph of each other and the DS radar was around 10 mph off on his runs

Ya it’s already acknowledged above.

 

[RiverDave]

It was after this crash that all the shoot out organizers across the country got together and decided to shorten the course from on mile to 3/4 mile.

To my knowledge there are no one mile shoot outs anymore. (They all used to be).

There are quite a few shoot outs across the country. The top three we usually hear about are LOTO / TX outlaw / DS.. but there are a bunch in the east as well. They all use the same format for the most part. I’m not sure they do GLOC anymore or not?

Someone asked how two radar guns can be off the same amount. The guns they use have an “adjustment” on them to correct the angle of attack. Meaning the finish boat with the guns is off to the side so they don’t get run over by the competitor. The further away the steeper the angle, the more adjustment you put in the gun

They didn’t realize that both guns had been adjusted basically to the max angle until after the shoot out.

It wasn’t intentional and definitely a big learning lesson for the promoters.

What sucks is the curse of the DS shoot out.. When Jim had it he put on some successful shoot outs (more often than not).. but there was always controversies behind the scenes.. that ended up leading to a shoot out committee, which good lord.. some of that shit is enough to make any rational man want to eat a bullet.. add in the annual monsoon that would blow it out half the time. What most of the public didn’t know though is when that happened they actually finish the shoot outs the following day, or I remember one time I think they pushed it all the way to Monday? But 9/10 times they did in fact finish the shoot outs.

Then he gave it to Christina and Jimmy.. they did the best they could, but honestly they were just overwhelmed with the event and would have been much better delegating that part out. The past year they had it they had the same problem where someone set the guns way wrong.. @KAP and others immediately let them know of the problem..

In a very bizarre decision they let some of the earlier runs keep the speeds from a miscalibrated gun? In particular one guy that was flipping out because he knew he couldn’t do it twice.. Which is how Corey with fatal attraction put up a speed that the boat just won’t do anymore.. that is how he won king of the desert.. why anyone would want to win that way is beyond me.
Anyhow long story short with that kinda logic you can figure out how the rest of them went with that kinda leadership steering the ship.

Fast forward last year they didn’t enforce the trap speeds because they wanted big numbers coming out of the shoot out (that was intentional) to this year where they actually tried to do it right but a mistake was made..

At the end of the day shit happens. DS is in fact moving in the right direction in my opinion even if I got my own little trials and tribulations with it. This year was the largest street party that has ever been (by a long shot). Which is the primary thing the event has going for it. The poker run is second and the shoot out is a distant third. They brought the LOTO team out this year for advice, and are making efforts To improve it in the future.

End of the day Jim did come out and apologize for the mistake and owned it.. not sure what else he could do other than that. I can say though someone shoulda caught it early on when the boats were putting out ridiculous numbers.

Overall the event is vastly improved than it has been for the last five or so years.

RD

 

[RiverDave]

On a side note virtually everyone in this industry from media to events needs to grow the fuck up.

I combed through speedboats social media and not one mention of supercat fest west (even in the videos they took at it) because ray is pissed at Alvin.. I suspect the harshness of this article is because the SOTW guys and day don’t get along and Ray is all in on DS, and SOTW is all in on SCFW.. I lost my street because I put on SCFW.. Alvin is now battling it out with the LOTO shoot out people…

Everyone needs to chill out and remember this is supposed to be fun and raise money for charity..

If everyone could put the past behind and egos aside and pull the rope one direction I think the fun and charity money could be doubled across the board.

RD

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

Fuckin amateur hour.

I agree!

Question for you. Why are they not using beacons? One issued for every boat? Hell they even use them in the go kart world.

 

[Slick]

Couple videos from a buddy if anyone’s boats

 

[Beep Beep]

I think it was pretty obvious to anyone that’s done over 100 mph that the gun was off…way off on some. This Warlock was doing 118?

Speedboat Magazine #speedboatmagazine #sbmag on Instagram: "JOHN SANFORD / WARLOCK 117.9 mph"

301 likes, 10 comments - sb.mag on April 27, 2024: "JOHN SANFORD / WARLOCK 117.9 mph".

www.instagram.com

 

[Havasu blue label]

Guess I wasn’t paying attention. I actually have never paid attention to the shootout as it’s always a half assed event. Just doesn’t work in havasu. Definitely doesn’t work when you don’t actually take the time to ensure your equipment is correctly calibrated. By the way, not difficult to ensure a radar gun is calibrated prior to the event. There’s places that do it such as the radar shop in Kansas. Blows my mind they had this issue previously and let it happen again. What a circus.

Did you run your boat

 

[Tank]

Did you run your boat

Nah. Wasn’t even there.

 

[ToMorrow44]

Guess I wasn’t paying attention. I actually have never paid attention to the shootout as it’s always a half assed event. Just doesn’t work in havasu. Definitely doesn’t work when you don’t actually take the time to ensure your equipment is correctly calibrated. By the way, not difficult to ensure a radar gun is calibrated prior to the event. There’s places that do it such as the radar shop in Kansas. Blows my mind they had this issue previously and let it happen again. What a circus.

You should have run the Cig! That would have been your shot to have a 120mph straight bottom Cig!

 

[Tom Slick]

Suggestion for next year. Set up the finish line radar system and run a few test passes through it to make sure it's reading accurately. Easy enough to to do with a GPS speedo in the boat and compare it to the radar reading.

 

[shueman]

All this drama over an exhibition event lol

 

[RiverDave]

Suggestion for next year. Set up the finish line radar system and run a few test passes through it to make sure it's reading accurately. Easy enough to to do with a GPS speedo in the boat and compare it to the radar reading.

This... and then every fifth or so run do it again.

RD

 

[RiverDave]

All this drama over an exhibition event lol

it really is ridiculous.. I get it though some of these guys spend 100's of thousands of dollars to win it.

RD

 

[clarence]

This... and then every fifth or so run do it again.

RD

Just shoot a bikini.

If she's moving 20mph, you've a problem.

 

[shueman]

it really is ridiculous.. I get it though some of these guys spend 100's of thousands of dollars to win it.

RD

To win what? Thousands? Not buyin it lol

 

[Ace in the Hole]

To win what? Thousands? Not buyin it lol

Bragging rights. Money isn’t the motivator.

 

[twocents]

All this drama over an exhibition event lol

How true! I've never understood the DS Shootout program which is genuinely an unofficial event not recognized by any legitimate racing organization or sanctioning body of any importance. Why would anybody spend the money or take the risk for something so meaningless? An event like the Shootout should never depend on a radar gun or GPS for accurate speeds. Make the investment in the rental of certified electronic timing equipment and be done with it. Sure, it costs a little more money and requires a bit more manpower to set it up but it eliminates any debate about recorded speeds (accurate to one one thousandth of a second). Just make the course one kilometer in length (3280 feet) and allow boats to enter the course at any speed they want.

 

[77charger]

How true! I've never understood the DS Shootout program which is genuinely an unofficial event not recognized by any legitimate racing organization or sanctioning body of any importance. Why would anybody spend the money or take the risk for something so meaningless? An event like the Shootout should never depend on a radar gun or GPS for accurate speeds. Make the investment in the rental of certified electronic timing equipment and be done with it. Sure, it costs a little more money and requires a bit more manpower to set it up but it eliminates any debate about recorded speeds (accurate to one one thousandth of a second). Just make the course one kilometer in length (3280 feet) and allow boats to enter the course at any speed they want.

Bragging rights is what it comes down too. And they get to do this in front of a crowd.

 

[H20 Toie]

I wonder iif they refunded everyone who entered their money

 

[RiverDave]

To win what? Thousands? Not buyin it lol

Honestly they don’t win anything.. sometimes it’s a trophy. But rest assured Gary smith @skater40 , Tim Jones and a hand full of others are spending crazy money to be the top dogs..

Boats goto Carson, motors rebuilt every year and tuned up to nuclear levels.. drives are all gone through each year.. it isn’t a cheap
Program at all.

Tim Jones added 20,000.00 for prize money for next years event to encourage more boats to come.

 

[ToMorrow44]

How true! I've never understood the DS Shootout program which is genuinely an unofficial event not recognized by any legitimate racing organization or sanctioning body of any importance. Why would anybody spend the money or take the risk for something so meaningless? An event like the Shootout should never depend on a radar gun or GPS for accurate speeds. Make the investment in the rental of certified electronic timing equipment and be done with it. Sure, it costs a little more money and requires a bit more manpower to set it up but it eliminates any debate about recorded speeds (accurate to one one thousandth of a second). Just make the course one kilometer in length (3280 feet) and allow boats to enter the course at any speed they want.

I believe one of the reasons for the shootout was to keep people from racing during the poker run. Many of the boats were running 160+ during the poker run. So the shootout gave them an outlet to run high speeds in a controlled environment.

 

[RiverDave]

I wonder iif they refunded everyone who entered their money

The results of the winners are still the same it’s just the speed recordings were off