Schiaward

[Backlash]

And so it begins....

What is a "Schiaward?"

Well, "Schiaward" is a word I conjured up to try and describe this "New-to-me" boat.

As you read along, hopefully this will all make sense. And if I am lucky, someone will have knowledge of this boat....


OK, let's get right down to the nitty gritty....

It's a 1983 19' V-bottom....

Four full-length stringers (Yes, four). Four full-length strakes.

Schiada Boats stickers on the sides of the deck.... (Although one sticker is displayed with the seahorse at the end of "Schiada Boats" instead of the beginning).

Howard Custom Boats HIN # on the transom.

Wait for it.......




And an outboard. Yes folks, an outboard complete with center-mounted steering, two foot pedals (One for the lazy leg), and a shifter on the floor.

One passenger seat faces rearward for an observer for skiing and there is some moderately robust hardware for the observer to hold on to. Long bench-style seating down both sides for other passengers.



OK, so obviously someone took a 19' Howard (As it's registered in Arizona), and "Slapped" some Schiada Boats stickers on the sides! That's exactly what I thought! Since Lee sold these molds to Howard sometime around 1977, it HAD to be a Howard. But, others say Howard did not build this boat with four stringers, so maybe it was a custom order through Schiada?? Who knows.... With so many questions, I took a drive down to Valencia to speak with Gene about his creation.


While waiting for Gene, I struck up a conversation with veteran HCB rigger "Mike." I showed him some cell-phone pictures of my boat and he said it didn't look familiar. He suggested I wait for Gene and speak with him about the boat. Mike was super-helpful and had lots of good things to say about this hull. He mentioned numerous v-drive creations and said this was one of the best riding boats. Mike was preoccupied rigging a beautiful new 28' cat so I let him get back to work and waited for Gene to arrive.


After showing Gene some of the pictures of this 19' Howard, he responded with the same statement I just heard from Mike..... "Nope, doesn't look familiar. I only built maybe 1 or 2 of those 19's as an outboard." Gene said this was not a boat he built and at one point during our conversation, referred to it as "An abortion." We laughed and he said if I bring it to the regatta in September, it could be the most "Unique." I thanked Gene for his time and headed out.


So, I went home and made a phone call to Schiada to see if maybe they had information on this boat. I left a somewhat confusing message (Sorry Stan and crew!). I know they are busy building gorgeous one-of-a-kind boats so I will wait patiently for a call back.


So, this is what I have been told about this boat so far.....


The original owner purchased the boat new in 1983 and ordered the boat minus engine. The boat was ordered as a four-stringer boat as it was intended to be used for ski racing. The original owner reportedly installed his own "Oversized" outboard (A now tired Evinrude 235 with about 440 hours on it), complete with an aluminum hydraulic outboard bracket and center mounted fuel tank.

The original owner also "Tweaked" the bottom of the boat to his liking (More on this later in this thread......). The boat has no trim and looks as though it was "Capped" some time ago.

Rumor has it, the original owner lived in Norco and was in real estate during the early 1980's. I was told the boat was used extensively on Lake Havasu for ski racing during this time and the original owner may have owned a pizza shop near the London Bridge.... The boat was sold in 1986 to the second owner which is who I bought the boat from. Unfortunately, he could not recall the original owner's name and said the boat was not changed during the 27 years he has owned it.


So, that's my story. I know this was somewhat lengthy but I'm hoping to jar someone's memory with those details. I will load some pictures of this "Schiaward" on Monday when I get her uncovered and cleaned up. Thanks for reading and please let me know what information you may have!

(Yes, this was the boat listed on CL some time ago with Schiada spelled "Shida").


Stay tuned....

Henry

 

[djunkie]

Post some pics.


Sent from my iPad using Tap That Ass

 

[Backlash]

Patience Young Skywalker.....

 

[vdcruiser]

If the boat was built in 1983 that was somewhat before Gene bought the co. I have a 1983 21 Howard that I bought from Howard Brown. At the time he spoke highly of the 19's and said he felt safer in that boat than any he made.

 

[Backlash]

Vdcruiser, thank you for sharing! I have heard nothing but good things about these boats and I am excited to finally have one. Mike and Gene both said this boat runs fantastic with stock power when rigged as a jet, an outboard or as a v-drive and it runs even better when more power is supplied. Mike said he remembers one particular 19' that was set up as a v-drive with a 1500hp Hemi motor. He said this particular boat ran 130mph.

Obviously, this particular model I have is intriguing because its origins are somewhat "Fuzzy" or unknown. That is one of the many reasons I was eager to purchase it. I've read as much as I could find about who owned the molds from one time to another and from what I have read, the molds were sold by Schiada to Howard in 1977. Again, that is just what I have read. During my conversation with Gene, he mentioned something about the year 1971 but I was unclear of whether or not he was talking about this particular model or another 19'.

I'm wondering if during "The Good Old Days," if there were good working relationships between all of the custom boat companies in SoCal and whether or not there were arrangements between the two companies. Did Schiada "Allow" Howard to pull a hull from the mold while Schiada still owned the molds (Pre 1977), and then registered the boat as a "Howard?" Or, did Schiada later contact Howard after the sale of the molds (Post 1977), and ask to pop a hull from the mold? I'm not sure. Maybe if a customer requested something "Special" this arrangement could have been made. I'm hoping one of the much more knowlegeable veterans can shed some light on this topic.

I know Jayteetrotter's 19' is one of the more recent restorations and his boat turned out beautiful. His hull has four stringers and two strakes. The one I purchased has four stringers and four strakes. Now, some people have said Schiada built the boat as a two strake & four stringer boat and after the sale of the molds to Howard, Howard built the boats as a four strake & two stringer boat. Again, I am not an expert so I am not sure.

Again, thank you to all who have read this thread and I would greatly appreciate any insight you could provide!

And if anyone has any photos to share, I would enjoy seeing them too.

Thank you!

Henry

 

[sixfifty]

Sub'd, interesting story on this boat. Cant wait to see some pics :thumbup:

 

[CampbellCarl]

Spectra also had these molds (or somebody perhaps 'splashed' the hull design). A friend has a Spectra 19' (in design) that was actually layed up by Eliminator.

Sorry to add more mud to the already muddy waters but yeah, a good deal of the builders of that era and in that area swapped more than just resin, cloth and Messicans.

 

[RyanPartridge]

Can't wait to see photos...

I've always been under the impression that the first boats Howard made after buying the 19 mold from Schiada had 4 stringers. Plus, in the world of custom boat building, if a customer wanted a boat laid up for racing and wanted 4 stringers...that's what he got.

If the boat is a 1983 with a Howard HIN# on the transom...it's a Howard, right?

 

[.boatpoor]

HOWARD NOT GENE BOUGHT THE MOLDS AROUND 1977.

 

[RyanPartridge]

During my conversation with Gene, he mentioned something about the year 1971 but I was unclear of whether or not he was talking about this particular model or another 19'.

Sometimes the 18' flat bottom is mistakingly referred to as a 19'.

Schiada first introduced the "19' Semi Vee" in 1972 or early 73. It was only available in a V-drive or Jet at that time.

 

[Backlash]

Good evening! Thank you for providing additional information gentleman, I truly do appreciate it!

sixfifty, I appreciate your interest thank you so much! With a project like this, it is always nice to have motivation from others to keep you moving forward. I will get the pictures loaded up as soon as I can! Thank you for your patience!!

.boatpoor, thank you for your interest as well. Obviously Gene didn't purchase the molds from Schiada at that time as Howard Brown was still at the helm. Thank you for clearing that up.

Campbell Carl, thank you for your interest too! I know you are a wealth of knowledge when it comes to this topic and I was hoping you would chime in. Thanks for the laughs too! You always crack me up!

Ryan Partridge, thank you for your additions as well. I was in Parker last weekend and as you may know, there is a 19' Howard sitting on a trailer in front of a local speed shop which I believe was built in 1977. That particular hull is set up as a v-drive and only has two stringers in it. So, it only adds to the questions I already mentioned about how these hulls were laid up by each company. I'm assuming "Back in the day," a customer could have requested an additional set of stringers for a small price. Again, these are "Custom Boats" so I am sure each company was more than willing to accomodate a customer's request. And yes, the registration for mine will obviously be a Howard because that is the HIN # on the boat. I was just thrown off a little bit when I spoke with Gene about it and he said it didn't look familiar and he didn't build it. He even looked through his build book when I was talking with him and he didn't see any evidence of it either. It left me just as confused as when I first walked in his door! LMAO

Either way, I am thrilled to have this gem and am really looking forward to the project. My plan is to clean it up, make it safe and run it for a bit just the way it is. Once I roast this motor (Which may not take too long!), I'll start on the rebuild process.

I know there are some good pictures on this site of Jayteetrotters restoration but if anyone has any additional pictures of this same hull, I would love to see them. If any of you rub elbows with any of the veteran ski racers from the 80's, maybe mention this boat and see if anyone has any good or bad stories about it.

Thank you again for all of the information guys, I really do appreciate it!

 

[RiverDave]

Sounds to me like its a Howard that someone said they were going to use for ski racing and ordered it with four stringers from Howard Brown.

Stan from Crusader has the 19 spectra mold and will lay one up for anyone wanting one.

 

[.boatpoor]

Sounds to me like its a Howard that someone said they were going to use for ski racing and ordered it with four stringers from Howard Brown.

Stan from Crusader has the 19 spectra mold and will lay one up for anyone wanting one.

Thanks Dave, I often wondered where that Spectra mold ended up. A friend of mine has an original one built by Teague for him.

 

[Froggystyle]

Thanks Dave, I often wondered where that Spectra mold ended up. A friend of mine has an original one built by Teague for him.

Mine is the same deal... A Spectra 19' V-Drive rigged by Teague. Love the boat.

The similar hull layed up by Eliminator is called the Formula(?) I think. Pink Taco owned one.

 

[Tommy Gun Images]

Mine is the same deal... A Spectra 19' V-Drive rigged by Teague. Love the boat.

The similar hull layed up by Eliminator is called the Formula(?) I think. Pink Taco owned one.

Yeah Eliminator calls theirs the Formula. Bitchin boats for sure!

 

[Froggystyle]

Yeah Eliminator calls theirs the Formula. Bitchin boats for sure!

Yeah, you were really attached to yours...

 

[Tommy Gun Images]

Yeah, you were really attached to yours...

It was practically an heirloom...

 

[CampbellCarl]

Yeah, you were really attached to yours...

.....for what, about three weeks.............

 

[Tommy Gun Images]

.....for what, about three weeks.............

Some relationships last longer than others

 

[.boatpoor]

Mine is the same deal... A Spectra 19' V-Drive rigged by Teague. Love the boat.

The similar hull layed up by Eliminator is called the Formula(?) I think. Pink Taco owned one.

I think the GMT is the same boat with inserts put in the mold. Jerry Gilbreath ran them with outboards.

 

[Crazyhippy]

I think the GMT is the same boat with inserts put in the mold. Jerry Gilbreath ran them with outboards.

There are some non tunnel GMT in existence...

Sent from my LG-E980 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Outdrive1]

There are some non tunnel GMT in existence...

Sent from my LG-E980 using Tapatalk 2

Dennis has a really nice all red GMT non tunnel.

 

[AzGeo]

I could see the leverage/balance and 'much lighter overall weight' of a single outboard being less effected by those center strakes with their 'extreme shapes' VS the weight of an inboard. It would also depend on how far forward from the transom they ended. I don't think the (235) outboard would run well at all with the "2 strake bottom". (all V and no pad) I've worked on and modified a few over the years and the one thing they all have in common is that the overall hull design and layup was always very strong for the amount of cockpit space. (both brand names)

 

[Backlash]

AzGeo,

Thank you for your response and interest, I truly appreciate it. I mentioned earlier in this thread that the original owner apparently performed some "Bottom work" to this particular hull. When I saw it, all I can say is that I was shocked.

The bottom of this boat has the original v-bottom shape with the aforementioned four strakes and a turning fin. The strakes run the full length of the bottom of the hull and end at the transom. They do not terminate prior to reaching the transom. Pretty straight forward so far....

What the owner did was create his own version of a "Flat running surface" (What you and I would call a "Pad").

Wait for it...........







The way the original owner did this was by "Bonding" several layers of 3/4" plywood to the bottom of the hull thus creating his version of a "Pad" or a flat running surface. This flat running surface is approximately 12"-14" in width and extends from the transom all the way towards the front of the boat. I havent actually measured the length of this pad but it extends past the turning fin so that gives you an idea of how long it is.

But it gets better.

The plywood was cut and shaped and adhered to the bottom of the boat using some form of epoxy or somthing similar to 5200. I haven't dug into this yet but it looks like there are between two and four layers of plywood that was "Glued up" and then bonded to the bottom of the boat. :eek

No, it does not look like anything that was done in the mold either. There isn't any evidence of any fiberglass........period. One can actually crawl under the boat and see the raw and exposed edges of the plywood! The edges of the plywood are completely exposed and the entire "Modification" was concealed by a layer of spray-on or roll-on dark-colored "Bottom coat" which has obviously come off over the last 30 years of use. There are also globs of white and clear silicone the second owner applied in various places to try and protect the plywood pad from colecting water.

In my opinion, pretty sketchy! I'm honestly surprised it has stayed "Bonded" to the boat for all of these years. Obviously, it is a huge concern of mine and will be the first thing that is removed prior to any use.

And for those of you who are able to keep track of who owns what mold and who is pulling parts from them, Gene said he just sold the Howard 19' v-bottom molds to a gentleman from the Lake Tahoe area. I asked Gene if he knew what this gentleman was going to do with the molds and he said "Nope."

 

[Froggystyle]

The way the original owner did this was by "Bonding" several layers of 3/4" plywood to the bottom of the hull thus creating his version of a "Pad" or a flat running surface. This flat running surface is approximately 12"-14" in width and extends from the transom all the way towards the front of the boat. I havent actually measured the length of this pad but it extends past the turning fin so that gives you an idea of how long it is.

But it gets better.

The plywood was cut and shaped and adhered to the bottom of the boat using some form of epoxy or somthing similar to 5200. I haven't dug into this yet but it looks like there are between two and four layers of plywood that was "Glued up" and then bonded to the bottom of the boat. :eek

In my opinion, pretty sketchy! I'm honestly surprised it has stayed "Bonded" to the boat for all of these years. Obviously, it is a huge concern of mine and will be the first thing that is removed prior to any use.

My bet is, it is on there to fix a problem.

It is probably bonded on there with Poxy Putty, and done so it could be reversed if need be.

These hulls have a rounded keel, which makes them tend to chine walk a bit over 100 mph. I bet the guy was experimenting with pads to try to solve that issue. Probably magnified with an outboard, and maybe at a lower speed.

Try it first. Doesn't seem like its going anywhere. Note the characteristics, speed, time to plane etc... And you will have a baseline you couldn't possibly get any other way. What if it works? I would measure it, take pictures of it, maybe even make some templates to recreate it if you need to. You will have a template for how to do it properly.

What if you just pull it off and the boat doesn't work? You'll be back at square one, not knowing what the pad did or didn't do.

Just my .02

 

[Full Pull]

Four stringer Howard:

http://www.riverdavesplace.com/foru...ft-Howard-v-drive&highlight=Howard+lew+Larson

 

[Backlash]

Full Pull, thank you for posting that link. I actually have one of the pictures of this boat as my screen saver at work to keep me motivated! Whoever ended up purchasing that Howard is a lucky soul. They ended up with a really nice boat for a great price.

The good news is, I miraculously made the trip home with the Schiaward in tow. The trailer sitting underneath her leaves a lot to be desired. It did make the trip though, so....

Once I got her backed into the driveway, I started poking around and realized a few things. First of all, this hull is actually a two strake boat and not a four strake boat as I had originally thought. As my ex-wife would have said, "See, you were wrong. I told you so!" I've been wrong a million times in the past, and I am sure I will be wrong again in the future. It's not the end of the world!

Secondly, the previous owner was kind enough to have removed the tilt and trim unit from the outboard. So, the only way to get the motor "Up" is to manually lift it and re-insert the pin in the bracket. The skeg is also ground down to a stump so that will have to be addressed if this motor is kept. I talked to the wizards at John's Custom Marine and they quoted me about $400 in parts for the tilt and trim. We also covered a few recommendations of things to do prior to firing this engine up for the first time, so it will be heading down to Stanton in a few weeks for a diagnosis.

Aesthetically, the boat is all white with a 1/4" red pinstripe around the deck and a larger dark blue stripe around the deck/hull joint. This dark blue gel was added later as you can feel the raised edge where the blue begins and ends (Maybe when the original owner had it capped?). There are some spider cracks near the bow and one on top of the deck near the passenger seat but nothing major or structural thus far. I will do some more digging this coming weekend.

And yes, I am loading "Pitchers" of this thing as soon as I transfer them to the PC.....

As always, thank you for looking!

Henry

 

[Backlash]

Froggystyle, thank you for chiming in and shedding some light on this bottom "Modification." You said the same thing Gene said; "Run it and see what happens!" LMAO It's not a bad idea. My concerns are what if a layer of this plywood comes off and ends up banging into the lower unit or the prop? Or what if something peels off is left floating in the river unbeknownst to me? I would feel horrible if someone were injured because they hit a layer of plywood that came off the bottom of this boat. But, like some people have said....it hasn't come off yet and it's been on their for three decades now. So we shall see.

Being that it is currently set up as an outboard, it isn't going to stay glued to the water the same way that a v-drive does. This particular boat probably "Chine walked" considerably for the original owner which is why he created this flat running surface....like you said to maybe address a problem or concern.

Henry

 

[RiverDave]

Henry get yourself a chizel and break all that B.S. off the bottom..

RD

 

[Froggystyle]

Henry get yourself a chizel and break all that B.S. off the bottom..

RD

That was RiverDave, naval architect, boat builder... And he's damn glad to meet you!

 

[CampbellCarl]

<<<<< Would ask Froggy a hull/water dynamic question way before he'd ask RD......

 

[RiverDave]

Some guy bondo'd a bunch if plywood (protruding) to the bottome of a 19 Schiada / Howard ( proven bottom). And you are suggesting he leaves it on there?

 

[Outdrive1]

Some guy bondo'd a bunch if plywood (protruding) to the bottome of a 19 Schiada / Howard ( proven bottom). And you are suggesting he leaves it on there?

Lmao. Mine has wood laminated on the transom, back seat and balsa cored floors. I never thought of doing the bottom outside of the boat.

 

[Hammer]

Lmao. Mine has wood laminated on the transom, back seat and balsa cored floors. I never thought of doing the bottom outside of the boat.

You could thru bolt the back seat . :thumbup:

 

[Outdrive1]

You could thru bolt the back seat . :thumbup:

It's a Schiada, the back seat is already through bolted. Lol.

 

[Crazyhippy]

A wood deck is so last year, a wood pad is the next big thing.

 

[Backlash]

You guys are killing me!! Thanks for the laughs!!! I think the best comment was when RD used the term "Bondo!" LMAO

I agree with you both though. Live on the edge and run it and see what happens. Or take it off and return the hull to its original design as it was popped from the mold.

I know that there will be some "Chine walking" running this hull at speed without some form of a flat running surface. But honestly, I think I would rather have that issue than constantly being worried about this crap coming loose and being a danger to others.

(My plan is not to leave this as an outboard powered boat for long, so.....)

 

[Froggystyle]

Some guy bondo'd a bunch if plywood (protruding) to the bottome of a 19 Schiada / Howard ( proven bottom). And you are suggesting he leaves it on there?

Yeah.... Long enough to see what it did.

Many, MANY new bottom designs were developed by gluing on pieces of wood, namely to dial in step locations and pad shapes.

And the boat is proven, but with jets and V-drives. As an example of that, Spectra optimized their 19 for a jet, and rounded the keel. The Schiada has an edged keel, and as such is slightly better as a V-drive.

I had a totally adjustable intake built for the Trident to test inlets and shoes. All bolt in.

It was clearly to fix a problem. If it worked better without it , it wouldn't be there.

Lets say it works... Here's what I'd do...

Sand it smooth and clean it up. Then pull a mold from it. Build a nice fiberglass piece that matches it, laminate a flange on the inside of it and epoxy it to the bottom.

In the meantime, after you splash it, clean it up and try it naked. If you like it better, you are out some glass and wood. If it doesn't, you will be very jazzed that you know what does.

 

[Backlash]

I completely agree with you Froggystyle. I think the original owner had really good intentions and was interested in seeing how well this combination worked set up as an outboard when used exclusively for ski racing (So I was told....). However, he did not do this "Modification" correctly. Like you mentioned, if the pad worked, why leave it "Raw" and unfinished? Why not flip the hull and at the very least, seal it up with some glass and smooth out the transitions and such. Just "Bondo-ing" a bunch of 3/4" ply on the bottom wasnt the best way to achieve his desired goal....

Part of me feels that this combination didn't work quite as well as he had hoped. He only had the boat for three years and sold it to someone who may or may not have known what he had or what was done to it....

When you crawl underneath this thing and take a look around, the pad is uneven and wavy. There are places where the water intrusion has started to separate the layers of the ply. The second owner threw a bunch of white caulking all over the place in hopes of helping things out. So, even though I like your idea to try the pad out and work with this idea and mabye try and improve upon what was done, it doesn't play into my long term goals for this boat.

I am going to wait and see what Mr. Stoker says about this engine. He said his shop is about three weeks behind so he told me to bring it down for them to look over. I am hoping there is a just little life left in this outboard just to put around Parker for the rest of this season and get her wet without having to row upriver.

 

[Backlash]

Speaking of a pad-bottom v-bottom hull, I would have to say if I wanted a true pad-bottom outboard powered rocket, I would have to lean towards the 18' Action. That hull orignally started out as a Hydrostream and has been refined to the Nth degree. Probably one of the most dialed in hulls out there. But then if you REALLY wanted to fly, why go that route? Why not just pull the trigger on an STV or a Mirage? Either one of those hulls would be an even better combination.

But nothing handles like a v-drive. Period.

 

[stevel]

Does any one rember chuck schiadas 20 foot outboard center steer race bost? It had what looked like a 2x6 fitted to the bottom that was at least as long as the running surface. It had a evinrude 235 on it when we raced with him.

 

[Backlash]

Stevel, do you remember what color this 20' Schiada was? Is it possible it could have been a 19' and not a 20'?? The boat I purchased is a 19' Howard with a 235 Evinrude and Schiada Boats stickers on it. It too has a nice chunk of lumber "Bondo'd" to the keel (As RD puts it.)

My boat was reportedly used as a ski race boat from 1983 to 1986 in Lake Havasu. Is it possible this is the same boat?

 

[Backlash]

Stevel, I forgot to include that mine is also a center steer......

 

[hallett21]

This thing got pics yet?

 

[Backlash]

Hallett21, thank you for inquiring! Yes Sir, I've got some pictures and I am hoping to load them up tonight (Djunkie has already busted my chops about that!). LMAO! She isn't pretty but it has a lot of potential.

 

[Backlash]

 

[Backlash]

 

[Backlash]

 

[AzGeo]

Having looked at the photos, it looks to me as a great big flatbottom center section. Lots of great input here, but I would direct my efforts towards MEASURING what I was doing while I did it. Get a GPS speedo, get an accurate tach, test with different props, and actually have viable data to work with all throughout the testing process. I feel that "RPM VS slip" will give you the most accurate measurement as to performance. Only 'seat of the pants (wet or dry) will tell you about the 'control offered' by any boat bottom modifications. As an outboard, it looks as though the previous owner wanted the boat to just "ride on the keel only' and not use any of the outer strakes while at speeds. Very smart considering the original shape of the strakes as they came out of the mold. I also agree that this original boat bottom design could use a few 'modifications' to make it faster while offering more control. BE SAFE !

 

[stevel]

Chucks boat was white and blue. The boat pictured was not chucks it was a 20 not a 19. The bottom modification looks like what chuck did to his boat. But it has been a very long time since i last saw it.