Saw Something "Odd" While On The Rez...

[77hallett]

Believe the most basic level of clearance is actually “Classified”. Carry on

Classified is not a classification level. Carry on.

 

[77hallett]

View attachment 1059880 View attachment 1059880 This is the plain I saw on Monument Valley low and looping around though monuments.

Definitely an HC, probably out of Tucson. Peep the ramp and door being open.

 

[77hallett]

Damn @was thatguy and @77hallett you guys are for real bad MF’s. Respect Patriots. Someday I hope our paths cross so I can you a beer or three.

Much appreciated. I’ve got the first round sir.

 

[rrrr]

Had a C5 fly low over my house a couple weeks ago. Landing gear down.

When a C-5 flys overhead with those freekin' huge flaps extended, they can blot out the sun!

 

[rrrr]

...and this my friends, is why I mentioned this here! Strange things on the Rez may be stuff like Bullhead on steroids, but this was a bit different. I figure someone on here knew something!

We all just assumed you were drunk again.

 

[Universal Elements]

Believe the most basic level of clearance is actually “Classified”. Carry on

It’s actually Confidential, Secret and Top Secret

 

[707dog]

I live maybe a half mile away from the end of travis AFB runway its been pretty quite not alot of planes moving around as usual or they had to put the mufflers and cal emissions equipment on the jets and I just can't hear them anymore.

 

[stephenkatsea]

Thanks UE. You’re right. And the upper levels have additional letters of clearance designation connected to them.

 

[Outdrive1]

Nice thread. . Lots of interesting info in here.

 

[was thatguy]

“2 week wait for a TS pass.” I’ve honestly never heard of that. But, there’s other parts of what you’re saying I’ve never heard of. Sorry. Maybe we’ve moved into the Obama/Biden Land when it comes to the topic.

Well this was all 30 years ago so I doubt it has anything to do with obama and Biden.

 

[stephenkatsea]

Well this was all 30 years ago so I doubt it has anything to do with obama and Biden.

As I said, Carry On.

 

[was thatguy]

Thanks UE. You’re right. And the upper levels have additional letters of clearance designation connected to them.

I wouldn’t know, I’ve never claimed anything but basic required clearance.
Had nothing to do with secret stuff, just working on secret level locations.
Even the shovel runners had to have it.

 

[stephenkatsea]

Some positions should NEVER require a clearance, but they must and should . Do I need to explain?

 

[was thatguy]

As I said, Carry On.

I’d be happy to explain a temporary clearance for a tour of a facility if it will help?
It’s not uncommon.
It’s a specific clearance for a specific reason on a specific date and invalid at any time before and after the specific parameter of the document.
Basically we all wanted to tour the famous Cobra Dane since I’d worked there on the island for 3 seasons and heard and read all the lore.
So we went through channels and it took about 2 weeks for all our approvals to come back. We were all granted top secret clearance for a specific time frame on a specific date for a specific reason, IE touring the cobra Dane.
It was awesome BTW!
That was my first real in-depth look at what Rathion is capable of. That thing is a marvel.
Certainly one of the highlights of my non typical life!
They flew the SAC cobra ball planes out the island as well, but we could not access the sac part of the island. Them boys are serious there. an island on an island.
That entire 4 years of my life was a total trip.
Your questioning of my statements is nothing new for me and it doesn’t bother me at all because so very few people have those experiences.
My late wife used to tell me I should write a book but I’d always say “who would ever believe it?”
Lol
Anyway all the best to you, it’s all good.

 

[monkeyswrench]

We all just assumed you were drunk again.

Nah, I was with my family...no fire water on this trip

 

[Universal Elements]

Thanks UE. You’re right. And the upper levels have additional letters of clearance designation connected to them.

Yes my Top Secret took almost 4 months and that’s from going secret. Lot of individuals they had to contact. I was a Crew Chief, Flying Crew Chief and a Flight Engineer on C5A stationed at Travis AFB. Honestly, the A models were the biggest POS ever. Their nicknames were FRED. Fuckin Ridiculous Economical Disaster. There were a couple bases we flew to overseas, the aircraft would sit for weeks at a time - broke. We would have to rob parts from another aircraft just to get plane out of there. Certain countries had some interesting clauses as how long the aircraft could stay there. I was offered a position with OSI but being young and dumb I turned it down and got out.

 

[was thatguy]

Some positions should NEVER require a clearance, but they must and should . Do I need to explain?

Whatever.

Yes my Top Secret took almost 4 months and that’s from going secret. Lot of individuals they had to contact. I was a Crew Chief, Flying Crew Chief and a Flight Engineer on C5A stationed at Travis AFB. Honestly, the A models were the biggest POS ever. Their nicknames were FRED. Fuckin Ridiculous Economical Disaster. There were a couple bases we flew to overseas, the aircraft would sit for weeks at a time - broke. We would have to rob parts from another aircraft just to get plane out of there. Certain countries had some interesting clauses as how long the aircraft could stay there. I was offered a position with OSI but being young and dumb I turned it down and got out.

I always felt better on a C5A than one of Travis’s 141’s....that is when a 141 actually was able to take off.

But then again, I’m just a stupid civilian.

 

[monkeyswrench]

I wouldn’t know, I’ve never claimed anything but basic required clearance.
Had nothing to do with secret stuff, just working on secret level locations.
Even the shovel runners had to have it.

One of my customers was basically a "handyman". He was a contracted civilian for DOD I believe. He had an FL60 Freightliner, and towed a 3 axle enclosed...it was a rolling hardware store. When I was taking parts out to his truck, I asked him why he had so much stuff. He told me his employment was pretty much based on being able to repair things without delay. He said more often than not, he would be somewhere "fixing toilets or light switches"...but because that toilet was in a general's office, he had to have official clearance. He joked that his clearance could get him in places some generals couldn't go.

 

[Universal Elements]

Whatever.


I always felt better on a C5A than one of Travis’s 141’s....that is when a 141 actually was able to take off.

But then again, I’m just a stupid civilian.

Sure, sounds good

 

[was thatguy]

One of my customers was basically a "handyman". He was a contracted civilian for DOD I believe. He had an FL60 Freightliner, and towed a 3 axle enclosed...it was a rolling hardware store. When I was taking parts out to his truck, I asked him why he had so much stuff. He told me his employment was pretty much based on being able to repair things without delay. He said more often than not, he would be somewhere "fixing toilets or light switches"...but because that toilet was in a general's office, he had to have official clearance. He joked that his clearance could get him in places some generals couldn't go.

He joked but it was true!
These guys are or were active duty.
I was a civilian employee.
There is a difference on how things work.
When Sam is paying say $50 million annually for environmental work here or there and the seasons are 12 weeks long MAYBE things tend to get pushed through as compared to the experience of a government asset.
I have no doubt their experiences are as they say. I worked side by side with active duty and saw how things were for them as compared to us.
There is a difference between be a government asset and being a rental.

Here’s another way to look at it.
Who is the boss of all things military and the boss of the entire chiefs of staff, including all the generals and admirals etc?

A 4 year temporary civilian government employee...think about it.

 

[was thatguy]

Sure, sounds good

You said you were at Travis.
Every single time I loaded on a 141 at Travis we were grounded for failure.
One time I tailgated 3 separate 141 aircraft over 3 days before loading onto a C5 to Yokota.

Am I wrong to assume the 141’s were worn out?
They are decommissioned now I believe?
While the C5 is active?

 

[rrrr]

In the late 50s and early 60s, New Mexico was on the front lines of the Cold War.

The Los Alamos National Laboratory was tasked with designing and building the warheads for the latest nuclear weapons. Sandia Army Base (now Sandia National Laboratory) in Albuquerque performed the initial design and engineering for the bomb delivery systems, from simple steel bomb casings to sophisticated multiple warhead devices that were attached to ICBMs and submarine launched missiles.

During these years my Dad's company was awarded contracts to perform construction projects at these sites.

Because he was given planning and construction documents pertaining to laboratories where the most sensitive work was being performed, he held a "Q" clearance. This didn't mean he had access to or knowledge of all of the things described in the link below. It was limited to the projects in question.

A select few employees held a lower classification clearance, and did work in the areas. In some places, the employees were driven onto the grounds in blacked out buses, then taken through "tunnels" made of plywood and built in corridors to work areas.

Q clearance - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[77hallett]

Yes my Top Secret took almost 4 months and that’s from going secret. Lot of individuals they had to contact. I was a Crew Chief, Flying Crew Chief and a Flight Engineer on C5A stationed at Travis AFB. Honestly, the A models were the biggest POS ever. Their nicknames were FRED. Fuckin Ridiculous Economical Disaster. There were a couple bases we flew to overseas, the aircraft would sit for weeks at a time - broke. We would have to rob parts from another aircraft just to get plane out of there. Certain countries had some interesting clauses as how long the aircraft could stay there. I was offered a position with OSI but being young and dumb I turned it down and got out.

I’m sure you have some unused points at a hotel in Rota. I miss having FE’s.

 

[77hallett]

You said you were at Travis.
Every single time I loaded on a 141 at Travis we were grounded for failure.
One time I tailgated 3 separate 141 aircraft over 3 days before loading onto a C5 to Yokota.

Am I wrong to assume the 141’s were worn out?
They are decommissioned now I believe?
While the C5 is active?

The 141’s were dinosaurs. Replaced by the C17. The C5 was upgraded to continue heavy airlift just as the 130 has been upgraded to continue tactical airlift.

 

[rrrr]

The 141’s were dinosaurs. Replaced by the C17. The C5 was upgraded to continue heavy airlift just as the 130 has been upgraded to continue tactical airlift.

Those Starlifters did some heavy work during the Vietnam war. There were thousands of flights between the US and Bien Hoa or Da Nang in those years.

The original C-141A models had problems which were corrected in time, and all subsequent aircraft, designated C-141B and C models, were built with a lengthened fuselage and aerial refueling capabilities, performed well.

The Hanoi Taxi, 66-0177, carried POWs from Hanoi to the Philippines, and on to the US in 1973. The aircraft flew for many more years before being retired.

The story of C-141 Hanoi Taxi, the first Aircraft to Return Vietnam Prisoners of War to the U.S. - The Aviation Geek Club

The Hanoi Taxi flew two missions into Hanoi, carrying out 78 POWs and two civilian returnees to the Philippines, and four missions from the Philippines to the U.S., carrying 76 ex-POWs

www.theaviationgeekclub.com

 

[Universal Elements]

The 141’s were dinosaurs. Replaced by the C17. The C5 was upgraded to continue heavy airlift just as the 130 has been upgraded to continue tactical airlift.

Yes, but remember the 141A were actually stretched and continued to operate till 2006 as the B & C model. Not bad for a 43 year run for a workhorse. Same thing with the C5. The active military doesn’t fly any A models. Just B, C, M.

 

[Universal Elements]

I’m sure you have some unused points at a hotel in Rota. I miss having FE’s.

Torrejon, Cairo West, Aviano & Angeles City too

You know what was the funniest shit at Clark? Sitting on the dark flight line near the jungle. The Apu’s were off and the Ground power units would be running. All off a sudden, the whole aircraft would go dark and essentials would be running off batteries. You would see 6 to 10 guys running across the flightline with the long ass power cords in their hands. They didn’t give a shit, used their machete’s to cut the cords while everything was energized. Those cords were heavy as shit too. But the price of copper was worth it. They had to station MP’s At every other aircraft to try and deter the boys of PI.

 

[02HoWaRd26]

Dunno about Tuba City, but the Holbrook airport can easily handle a C-17.

And Winslow’s is even larger.

 

[rrrr]

And Winslow’s is even larger.

It was an Army Air Forces training base during WWII. There are several long abandoned airstrips around the area that served as satellite fields, destinations for training aircraft.

There were also other AAF bases in Arizona. The year round clear weather facilitated the pace of training as the war accelerated.

Arizona World War II Army Airfields - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[AZmike]

I saw a couple C-5's up around the Show Low Airport around 10/12 in the early evening. I thought they looked out of place flying around the airport. About the biggest thing I ever see around there is the boutique air Pilatus leaving for Phoenix..

 

[77hallett]

Yes, but remember the 141A were actually stretched and continued to operate till 2006 as the B & C model. Not bad for a 43 year run for a workhorse. Same thing with the C5. The active military doesn’t fly any A models. Just B, C, M.

Those Starlifters did some heavy work during the Vietnam war. There were thousands of flights between the US and Bien Hoa or Da Nang in those years.

The original C-141A models had problems which were corrected in time, and all subsequent aircraft, designated C-141B and C models, were built with a lengthened fuselage and aerial refueling capabilities, performed well.

The Hanoi Taxi, 66-0177, carried POWs from Hanoi to the Philippines, and on to the US in 1973. The aircraft flew for many more years before being retired.

The story of C-141 Hanoi Taxi, the first Aircraft to Return Vietnam Prisoners of War to the U.S. - The Aviation Geek Club

The Hanoi Taxi flew two missions into Hanoi, carrying out 78 POWs and two civilian returnees to the Philippines, and four missions from the Philippines to the U.S., carrying 76 ex-POWs

www.theaviationgeekclub.com

Definitely a workhorse and did more than was needed. The upgrades made sense for the time but the C17 was/is a much more versatile platform. Goes along the lines of how the legacy 130’s have all but been retired for the J model. Aircraft looks the same, but the internals and everything else is brand new. No more wiring harnesses that lead to nowhere.

 

[HANDY]

View attachment 1059881

El Capitan on the right, I remember watching bombers fly low through that valley in the 70's and early 80's

 

[02HoWaRd26]

It was an Army Air Forces training base during WWII. There are several long abandoned airstrips around the area that served as satellite fields, destinations for training aircraft.

There were also other AAF bases in Arizona. The year round clear weather facilitated the pace of training as the war accelerated.

Arizona World War II Army Airfields - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Yea the history of that airport in Winslow is pretty cool. That’s where most of the slurry planes for the southwest are stored as well. The added runway length allows them to take off with all that weight.

 

[rrrr]

Yea the history of that airport in Winslow is pretty cool. That’s where most of the slurry planes for the southwest ate stored as well. The added runway length allows them to take off with all that weight.

Time for another rrrr RDP History Lesson™.

One of the most interesting incidents related to the Winslow airport was the February 1949 emergency landing there of the controversial Northrop YB-49 bomber prototype after it had visited Washington, DC. At the time, Northrop was trying to convince the Air Force that the aircraft was the best candidate for an intercontinental bomber that could carry nuclear weapons to the USSR and strike that country if atomic war broke out.

The aircraft landed at Winslow after four of its eight turbojet engines began to fail at altitude. When safely on the ground, it was determined that the failed engines had no oil in them. It was widely accepted that the aircraft had been sabotaged in DC prior to the flight back to California.

The bomber's radical flying wing configuration was the product of Jack Northrop's genius for design. Northrop first became involved in aviation in 1916, when he went to work as a draftsman for the Loughhead Corporation, an early aircraft manufacturer and predecessor of today's Lockheed Martin defense conglomerate. While there, he designed the beautiful and efficient Lockheed Vega. He left the company and went to work for Douglas Aircraft in the 1920s, before forming the Northrop Corporation.

The YB-49 was in competition with designs by manufacturers Convair and Boeing to receive a contract to build hundreds of bombers that would replace the Boeing B-29 Superfortress. Northrop's flying wing was efficient and fast, but flight testing revealed it was unstable while on simulated bomb runs.

The aircraft danced around its yaw axis, and despite the addition of an autopilot yaw damper system that nulled out most of the unwanted oscillations, it consistently failed test runs on the bombing range.

By the time of the emergency landing in Winslow, the Air Force was losing patience with Northrop and the aircraft. A year earlier, a prototype had crashed during stall testing above Muroc Air Force Base, killing pilot Major Daniel Forbes (for whom Forbes Air Force Base was named), co-pilot Captain Glen Edwards (for whom Edwards Air Force Base is named), and three other crew members.

Another prototype crashed in early 1950, and in May of that year, all remaining contracts for production of the aircraft were cancelled, and all uncompleted airframes were scrapped.

Despite the stability issues, the flying wing had advantages over conventional designs. In the early 1980s, Northrop began secret work on a flying wing bomber aircraft, and in 1989 it flew for the first time. The Northrop B-2 Spirit was publicly revealed in 1997.

Despite its low radar signature, the B-2 has many problems, cost being the main issue. Each aircraft costs over a billion dollars, and because of its complexity, it is common for operational readiness to perform missions to be less than 50%.

But the original design of the flying wing revealed advanced performance capabilities, and with the advent of flight computers, fly by wire technology enabled the B-2 to acquire the stability it didn't have in the YB-49.

Jack Northrop's genius in design has provided a legacy that can be found today in the Lockheed Martin RQ-170 Sentinel UAV, or unmanned aerial vehicle. The B-2 will be retired in the near future, its crippling maintenance costs being the primary reason.

But flying wing technology has expanded, and Northrop's vision in the 1940s will live on in unmanned aircraft that can loiter above the battlefield or fly to targets without being detected.

On 9 February 1949, the first YB-49 flew from Muroc Air Force Base in California to Andrews Air Force Base near Washington, D.C., in 4 hours 25 minutes, after which President Truman ordered a flyby of Pennsylvania Avenue at rooftop level. The return flight from Andrews was marred when four of the eight engines had to be shut down due to oil starvation.

Inspection after a successful emergency landing at Winslow Airport, Arizona, revealed no oil had been placed in these engines after maintenance at Andrews AFB, raising the suspicion of industrial sabotage.

Northrop YB-49 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The Lockheed RQ-170 Sentinel:

Lockheed Martin RQ-170 Sentinel - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Mrs. Riley1]

A group of army helicopters from Colorado stopped over in Boulder City today on their way to Fort Irwin for training. There were about 25 total Apaches, Blackhawks, and Chinooks. One of the Apache pilots came over and talked to my son and gave him a patch. It was pretty awesome.

 

[rrrr]

View attachment 1060073 View attachment 1060072 A group of army helicopters from Colorado stopped over in Boulder City today on their way to Fort Irwin for training. There were about 25 total Apaches, Blackhawks, and Chinooks. One of the Apache pilots came over and talked to my son and gave him a patch. It was pretty awesome.

When I lived in Holbrook during the years my Dad's company did many BIA projects in Shonto, Kayenta, Tuba City, and other villages, we lived in East Holbrook, where my Dad built a large shop and a couple of houses. This was a couple hundred yards from Highway 66, and there was a large truck stop right there next to the highway.

In 1965 or 1966 (can't remember exactly) I was outside playing with friends when we heard the loud approach of some helicopters. There were six UH-1 Hueys in the flight, and to the amazement of me and my friends, they slowed, circled, and landed on the dirt road right in front of my house.

The crew chiefs tied down the rotors of the helicopters, and the men walked over to the truck stop to eat.

We managed to muster up enough courage to talk to some of the crews, and found out they were ferrying the Hueys to the West Coast to be placed on a ship bound for South Vietnam.

This was probably the coolest thing I had ever seen in my short existence.

 

[Mrs. Riley1]

When I lived in Holbrook during the years my Dad's company did many BIA projects in Shonto, Kayenta, Tuba City, and other villages, we lived in East Holbrook, where my Dad built a large shop and a couple of houses. This was a couple hundred yards from Highway 66, and there was a large truck stop right there next to the highway.

In 1966 or 1967 (can't remember exactly) I was outside playing with friends when we heard the loud approach of some helicopters. There were six UH-1 Hueys in the flight, and to the amazement of me and my friends, they slowed, circled, and landed on the dirt road right in front of my house.

The crew chiefs tied down the rotors of the helicopters, and the men walked over to the truck stop to eat.

We managed to muster up enough courage to talk to some of the crews, and found out they were ferrying the Hueys to the West Coast to be placed on a ship bound for South Vietnam.

This was probably the coolest thing I had ever seen in my short existence.

What a cool experience! Our son wants to be a helicopter pilot in the Navy When he grows up so he was over the moon excited today!

 

[Universal Elements]

Time for another rrrr RDP History Lesson™.

One of the most interesting incidents related to the Winslow airport was the February 1949 emergency landing there of the controversial Northrop YB-49 bomber prototype after it had visited Washington, DC. At the time, Northrop was trying to convince the Air Force that the aircraft was the best candidate for an intercontinental bomber that could carry nuclear weapons to the USSR and strike that country if atomic war broke out.

The aircraft landed at Winslow after four of its eight turbojet engines began to fail at altitude. When safely on the ground, it was determined that none of the failed engines had oil in them. It was widely accepted that the aircraft had been sabotaged in DC prior to the flight back to California.

The bomber's radical flying wing configuration was the product of Jack Northrop's genius for design. Northrop first became involved in aviation in 1916, when he went to work as a draftsman for the Loughhead Corporation, an early aircraft manufacturer and predecessor of today's Lockheed Martin defense conglomerate. While there, he designed the beautiful and efficient Lockheed Vega. He left the company and went to work for Douglas Aircraft in the 1920s, before forming the Northrop Corporation.

The YB-49 was in competition with designs by manufacturers Convair and Boeing to receive a contract to build hundreds of bombers that would replace the Boeing B-29 Superfortress. Northrop's flying wing was efficient and fast, but flight testing revealed it was unstable while on simulated bomb runs.

The aircraft danced around its yaw axis, and despite the addition of an autopilot yaw damper system that nulled out most of the unwanted oscillations, it consistently failed test runs on the bombing range.

By the time of the emergency landing in Winslow, the Air Force was losing patience with Northrop and the aircraft. A year earlier, a prototype had crashed during stall testing above Muroc Air Force Base, killing pilot Major Daniel Forbes (for whom Forbes Air Force Base was named), co-pilot Captain Glen Edwards (for whom Edwards Air Force Base is named), and three other crew members.

Another prototype crashed in early 1950, and in May of that year, all remaining contracts for production of the aircraft were cancelled, and all uncompleted airframes were scrapped.

Despite the stability issues, the flying wing had advantages over conventional designs. In the early 1980s, Northrop began secret work on a flying wing bomber aircraft, and in 1989 it flew for the first time. The Northrop B-2 Spirit was publicly revealed in 1997.

Despite its low radar signature, the B-2 has many problems, cost being the main issue. Each aircraft costs over a billion dollars, and because of its complexity, it is common for operational readiness to perform missions to be less than 50%.

But the original design of the flying wing revealed advanced performance capabilities, and with the advent of flight computers, fly by wire technology enabled the B-2 to acquire the stability it didn't have in the YB-49.

Jack Northrop's genius in design has provided a legacy that can be found today in the Lockheed Martin RQ-170 Sentinel UAV, or unmanned aerial vehicle. The B-2 will be retired in the near future, its crippling maintenance costs being the primary reason.

But flying wing technology has expanded, and Northrop's vision in the 1940s will live on in unmanned aircraft that can loiter above the battlefield or fly to targets without being detected.

On 9 February 1949, the first YB-49 flew from Muroc Air Force Base in California to Andrews Air Force Base near Washington, D.C., in 4 hours 25 minutes, after which President Truman ordered a flyby of Pennsylvania Avenue at rooftop level. The return flight from Andrews was marred when four of the eight engines had to be shut down due to oil starvation.

Inspection after a successful emergency landing at Winslow Airport, Arizona, revealed no oil had been placed in these engines after maintenance at Andrews AFB, raising the suspicion of industrial sabotage.

Northrop YB-49 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The Lockheed RQ-170 Sentinel:

Lockheed Martin RQ-170 Sentinel - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

A good friend of mine works for GE In Ohio. He is on the Executive team. One of the departments he’s responsible of is Power Generation & Distribution. His projects were the 170 and now the 180. Really fascinating stuff.

 

[rrrr]

Your reply is screwed up but I got it. Pretty cool stuff.

 

[Universal Elements]

Your reply is screwed up but I got it. Pretty cool stuff.

Don’t know how that happened