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Rolling power blackouts in effect across Texas as massive winter storm drives demand for electricity

shunter2005

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...2007... I bailed out of Harrah Oklahoma as we were being hit with an ice storm at my girlfriends horseranch... so I took off towards Austin where I hung out for a week...saw a lot of great music...
...The morning I woke up and my Dodge ram diesel didn’t want to go forward so easy...because the tires were sort of frozen to the bridge where I was camped out...Turns out the bridge was right at the driveway for the parking area for the Austin police department ...I was there a week they never said a word???...
...Anyway when the last music joint shut down because of the cold the last player was Furry Lewis and he was 98 years old at the time...Next morning I went to IHOP for breakfast... in the middle of my breakfast the manager came over and locked all the doors ....they had simply run out of food from having to feed the road workers who were deicing the roads...
... Time to leave Austin...Got on the highway I forget what highway that is that goes from Austin to Oklahoma City???...
...Could not believe that the locals did not know how to drive on black ice ...they were looping them right and left... I just put my 5.9...12 valve diesel in four-wheel-drive high...The weight of the Lance camper helped keep it glued to the highway ...and drove 50 miles an hour all the way back to Harrah Oklahoma...
... if the Texans can’t handle black ice...II wonder how they’re going to do driving through a foot of snow???...

It's hard to know how to handle it, when we very, very rarely see black ice or snow. In Houston, we haven't seen snow in at least 10 - 12 years. Truth is, most of them run out of talent on dry roads.
 

pronstar

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Someone in our church group, who works for an unnamed city, sent this to our group:


Hey friends, there is a wrestling match going on right now between ERCOT the people in charge of the electrical grid and North Texas municipal water District. ERCOT wants the water district to turn the pumps off tonight because they're using too much electricity. And so it continues...just got this text from the Stake President:

Just got word from a good source that the Mayor is 80% sure to shut off water. Please let members know so they can prepare.

You may want to fill up your bathtub tonight just in case so that you can have water to flush your toilets.


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pronstar

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What a bunch of candy ass mother fuckers. It aint that cold. Ive been in colder. Ive lived in a day cab dump truck for a few days in the middle of the Nevada desert in colder.

3-4 days with no tv, cell phone, heat, not that bigga deal. Blankets. Hunker down and live on.

Texan can not drive in hot sunny weather let alone snow. Ive been driving around everywhere just shaking my head at the pure stupidity!! Traffic light out....stop? NOPE wtf?? I could go on but my tv show just came back from commercial

Yes this stupid Californian planned ahead!!

People driving at a walking pace is driving me crazy. May as well GTFO and walk.

Guys in BroDozers who think their MT tires can handle these conditions...makes me laugh as I drive circles around the, in the wife’s Suburban.

Side note:
For an all-season tire that’s not 3PMS rated (for snow), Pirelli Scorpion Verde all-season tires are legit in the conditions we’re seeing. I’m impressed with the capability they’re giving the Suburban.

Meanwhile...as expected, I nearly slid all the way down my driveway with the MT tires on my truck LOL


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DWC

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I gotta ask what Job makes it that important to jet out there to what seems like the worse storm in a hundred years? They couldnt pay me enough to deal with that!
X2 My entire team got sent to Atl during their famous icemagadon I called my boss the day before and he said no cancelling, mandatory meeting. Ended up sleeping on the freeway. Got to the hotel at 7am. Had a cheese platter waiting for me. Went to sleep for a few hours met for a few hours and flew home early the next day
 

Wedgy

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Made it through the night up here ok. No outages. We're on Xcel, HQ in Minnesota. Not sure if that has anything g to do with a better power situation up here on the South Plains, but we see snow regularly, so.

I can see how they can't cope down in South TX, they seldom, if ever have had it this bad before. Prayers for those affected. Maybe the "Posers, er, Power's That Be," can learn from this and bring some Natural Gas Plants online here, and otherwise strengthen the Texas power grid. Squeaky wheel, People.
 

farmo83

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Shitshow all around. Centerpoint communication has been piss poor at best. All we get is rolling black outs will start. Not who, how long, or anything. I've tried to go to family members home only to have their power rotated off. I've tried to shelter family and friends only to have my power rotated off. There was a picture going around of buildings downtown that no one has worked in since March lit up while families suffer. Well be under FEEC soon. ERCOT won't survive. In the mean time were hunkered down here with no water, no power, hoping nothing breaks here or in our pool
 

TPC

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One drop of water on the road in Cali and everyone starts slamming into each other.

Liberals are already out there in the media pissing on back-up, natural gas fueled standby power.
 

mesquito_creek

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you could solve the problem with market based pricing... limited electricity based on environmental conditions is rationed based on willingness to pay. Anything else continues the current socialist market of one rate for everyone.
 

Sleek-Jet

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Made it through the night up here ok. No outages. We're on Xcel, HQ in Minnesota. Not sure if that has anything g to do with a better power situation up here on the South Plains, but we see snow regularly, so.

I can see how they can't cope down in South TX, they seldom, if ever have had it this bad before. Prayers for those affected. Maybe the "Posers, er, Power's That Be," can learn from this and bring some Natural Gas Plants online here, and otherwise strengthen the Texas power grid. Squeaky wheel, People.

It isn't just about having gas fired generation available local.

The bulk utility system is built like a layer cake. At the base, you have generation that is there 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Traditionally this has been comprised of thermal generation (Coal mostly and some Gas) along with Nuclear. Base generation is almost always large generation facilities located some distance away from the load centers. These generators also have considerable start-up times and either run full load or not at all. A system operator can't pick up the phone and ask Big Nowhere unit 2 be online by the top of the hour.

Then you have your middle layer. This is where most of the medium size gas plants exist. Those plants are "dispatchable", meaning they can come on line and off line quickly to meet shift power needs. Wind falls in this layer most of the time. Wind tends to blow more through the middle of the day and later at night.

Then you have the peaking facilities. Most of these are gas generators as well and only run a few hours a day usually. Solar and Battery fall into this final top layer, good for several hours a day but not much more than that (for now). Solar is also not dispatchable (obviously) so you kind of take what you can get.

From my understanding Texas removeed a whole bunch of base load thermal generation and replaced it with wind and was banking on peaking natural gas to back it all up. Now you don't have wind or solar and the natural gas infrastructure is stressed due to demands in other parts of the country.

In the past, because of Federal requirements, there was always a generator backing up another one. This is called spinning reserve. Enviromentalist don't like this because it means the generation fleet is overbuilt for the load (by a rough factor of 2:1). Renewable plans seek to replace this with just enough reserve to cover a short term loss of generation, or things like battery networks that can bridge a short term loss of generation. Out here we call that frequency response. What you end up with is something like happend in Texas if there is a longer duration event. Unfortunately these long term events tend to happen during extreme weather. This year it was a winter storm. Next year it'll be an extreme heat wave. Or a mesoscale Thunderstorm event that knocks off a bunch of wind and solar for a long time followed by high summer temperatures.

We have built a battleship reliable electric grid in the US, and now we are going about dismantling it.
 
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Shlbyntro

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you could solve the problem with market based pricing... limited electricity based on environmental conditions is rationed based on willingness to pay. Anything else continues the current socialist market of one rate for everyone.

Sounds like a free for all to gouge people while they're suffering. To the contrary, I think ercot will survive and Texas will resecure our grid with more dependable energy sources.

Federal lawsuits will ensue. Texas will further separate itself from "the green new deal"
 

mesquito_creek

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In the past, because of Federal requirements, there was always a generator backing up another one. This is called spinning reserve. Enviromentalist don't like this because it means the generation fleet is overbuilt for the load (by a rough factor of 2:1). Renewables plans seek to replace this with just enough reserve to cover a short term loss of generation, or things like battery networks that can bridge a short term loss of generation. Out here we call that frequency response. What you end up with is something like happend in Texas if there is a longer duration event. Unfortunately these long term events tend to happen during extreme weather. This year it was a winter storm. Next year it'll be an extreme heat wave. Or a mesoscale Thunderstorm event that knocks off a bunch of wind and solar for a long time followed by high summer temperatures.

Try putting a new state of the are natural gas fired plant in Cave Creek AZ where all the new CA conservatives live and you will have your newest batch of environmentalist protesters over night.... NIMBY
 

Sleek-Jet

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Try putting a new state of the are natural gas fired plant in Cave Creek AZ where all the new CA conservatives live and you will have your newest batch of environmentalist protesters over night.... NIMBY

Do a quick search on the Sun-Zia transmission line project and how long it has taken.

The future is dark and cold (or hot and muggy depending on your location).
 

mesquito_creek

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Sounds like a free for all to gouge people while they're suffering. To the contrary, I think ercot will survive and Texas will resecure our grid with more dependable energy sources.

Federal lawsuits will ensue. Texas will further separate itself from "the green new deal"

The bleeding heart part of me agrees with you, but I am not sure at what point electricity became a "right"....
 

Shlbyntro

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The bleeding heart part of me agrees with you, but I am not sure at what point electricity became a "right"....

The same time smart phones and internet became a right? Lol

Anyway. A state of emergency has been declared which makes it illegal for companies to gouge for electricity, food, water, natural gas, etc. Until the declaration has been lifted.

I'm not sure id neccesarily go as far as to say bleeding heart, but at a certain point empathy and morality has to play a part.

Of course I sit here typing this as I'm relatively unaffected being on water district 17 and the same leg of the grid as Mansfield dam which is generating right now, the only way I'm losing power is if the transmission line to my neighborhood gets knocked out. (Which does happen one way or another with almost every thunderstorm during the spring and summertime btw, I lost power 5 times last summer)

I wouldnt put it past ERCOT to require installation of remote power shutoffs for entire panels and/or ac's to homes and businesses after this though.
 

shunter2005

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The same time smart phones and internet became a right? Lol

Anyway. A state of emergency has been declared which makes it illegal for companies to gouge for electricity, food, water, natural gas, etc. Until the declaration has been lifted.

I'm not sure id neccesarily go as far as to say bleeding heart, but at a certain point empathy and morality has to play a part.

Of course I sit here typing this as I'm relatively unaffected being on water district 17 and the same leg of the grid as Mansfield dam which is generating right now, the only way I'm losing power is if the transmission line to my neighborhood gets knocked out. (Which does happen one way or another with almost every thunderstorm during the spring and summertime btw, I lost power 5 times last summer)

I wouldnt put it past ERCOT to require installation of remote power shutoffs for entire panels and/or ac's to homes and businesses after this though.
My bet is ERCOT will be dismantled or completely revamped after this fiasco. Abbot was pretty pissed about it, as were a few others, not to mention about 5-6 million customers without power.

State of emergency doesn't mean shit to those guys. I can't wait to get my gas and electric bills. Have had to heat my house 4 times and now working on #5. It's going to be outrageous.
 

Shlbyntro

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My bet is ERCOT will be dismantled or completely revamped after this fiasco. Abbot was pretty pissed about it, as were a few others, not to mention about 5-6 million customers without power.

State of emergency doesn't mean shit to those guys. I can't wait to get my gas and electric bills. Have had to heat my house 4 times and now working on #5. It's going to be outrageous.

I could agree..

I do know this. However it turns out, there is no way in cold hell that Abbott is turning over Texas' grid to federal regulators.
 

shunter2005

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I could agree..

I do know this. However it turns out, there is no way in cold hell that Abbott is turning over Texas' grid to federal regulators.
He better not, if he wants to see another term as Governor!!!! After this crap, the right thinking Texans will be all over this.
 

Sleek-Jet

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I could agree..

I do know this. However it turns out, there is no way in cold hell that Abbott is turning over Texas' grid to federal regulators.

ERCOT is already subject to FERC and NERC oversight.

What might change is they no longer get to operate as its own interconnection and has to join the eastern interconnection.
 

Shlbyntro

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ERCOT is already subject to FERC and NERC oversight.

What might change is they no longer get to operate as its own interconnection and has to join the eastern interconnection.
Screenshot_20210217-110549_Google.jpg
 

Taboma

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ERCOT is already subject to FERC and NERC oversight.

What might change is they no longer get to operate as its own interconnection and has to join the eastern interconnection.

Texas blackouts obviously big news, but these or similar severe winter conditions currently exist across the mid-west and a wide expanse. Wife mentioned their Tupelo Ms plant shut down due to freezing temps and ice storms. Are other areas suffering similar black outs ? Would be interconnected to the east change anything ?
 

Sleek-Jet

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Somebody should tell ERCOT that:


Compliance in ERCOT
Market Participants in the ERCOT region are subject to both state and federal laws and regulations.
Market Participants that own or operate facilities that are part of the Bulk Electric System, as defined in federal law, are subject to oversight by the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC), the North American Electric Reliability Corporation (NERC), and Texas Reliability Entity, Inc. (Texas RE).


Edit...

So I see where my confusion lies. The above is for transaction across state lines. You are correct, ERCOT plays by it own rules.

Still, sitting up here in PJM under FERC and NERC jurisdiction the lights are on.

from the FERC website:


The transmission grid that the ERCOT independent system operator administers is located solely within the state of Texas and is not synchronously interconnected to the rest of the United States. The transmission of electric energy occurring wholly within ERCOT is not subject to the Commission's jurisdiction under sections 203, 205, or 206 of the Federal Power Act.
 
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Sleek-Jet

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Texas blackouts obviously big news, but these or similar severe winter conditions currently exist across the mid-west and a wide expanse. Wife mentioned their Tupelo Ms plant shut down due to freezing temps and ice storms. Are other areas suffering similar black outs ? Would be interconnected to the east change anything ?

It would ease market transactions with the other ISO's. A larger pool to draw from if ERCOT is tied to the other interconnection.

We currently don't have any black outs due to power shortages up here.
 

Shlbyntro

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Somebody should tell ERCOT that:


Compliance in ERCOT
Market Participants in the ERCOT region are subject to both state and federal laws and regulations.
Market Participants that own or operate facilities that are part of the Bulk Electric System, as defined in federal law, are subject to oversight by the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC), the North American Electric Reliability Corporation (NERC), and Texas Reliability Entity, Inc. (Texas RE).


Edit...

So I see where my confusion lies. The above is for transaction across state lines. You are correct, ERCOT plays by it own rules.

Still, sitting up here in PJM under FERC and NERC jurisdiction the lights are on.

Screenshot_20210217-111555_Google.jpg
 

mesquito_creek

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The same time smart phones and internet became a right? Lol

Anyway. A state of emergency has been declared which makes it illegal for companies to gouge for electricity, food, water, natural gas, etc. Until the declaration has been lifted.

I'm not sure id neccesarily go as far as to say bleeding heart, but at a certain point empathy and morality has to play a part.

Of course I sit here typing this as I'm relatively unaffected being on water district 17 and the same leg of the grid as Mansfield dam which is generating right now, the only way I'm losing power is if the transmission line to my neighborhood gets knocked out. (Which does happen one way or another with almost every thunderstorm during the spring and summertime btw, I lost power 5 times last summer)

I wouldnt put it past ERCOT to require installation of remote power shutoffs for entire panels and/or ac's to homes and businesses after this though.

Is it really gouging if the individual rate payers are making the determination on pricing in real time, especially if everyone knows that is the game before hand? You could choose to invest 20K dollars in back up generators and maintain it OR choose to participate in the market based pricing and bid against your neighbor for electricity... I under stand this a radical departure from the norm, but at some point everything is an emergency and nobody's power gets turned off. We already can't turn off you power based on its "too hot" in Arizona or you can't pay because of "covid" etc... These are existing real work government powers that are currently regulate electricity.

BTW... In Arizona in large parts of the electricity grid is fully smart metered and can turn on and off you power remotely as much as the utility wants. We have prepay meters that allow you to put 2 bucks on it and it will automatically turn off after you use that to stop you from going into debt etc.. Now, I have no idea how the radio mesh network that does all that would hold up to -2 degree temps, but it does work when its 118!
 
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TPC

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I have a suspicion this will repeat itself when the hot summer rolls in - but it'll be no AC instead of no heat.
 

mesquito_creek

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You were correct, see my edited post. Mea Culpa...

In your defense.. while ERCOT isn't regulated.. every single asset that participates within that grid is FERC/NERC/CIP compliant. Its kinda like saying I own my own personal property, while every move you make on in is governed by zoning, building permit, taxes, hoas, special district school district and on an on ....
 

Sleek-Jet

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Is is really gouging if the individual rate payers are making the determination on pricing in real time, especially if everyone knows that is the game before hand? You could choose to invest 20K dollars in back up generators and maintain it OR choose to participate in the market based pricing and bid against your neighbor for electricity... I under stand this a radical departure from the norm, but at some point everything is an emergency and nobody's power gets turned off. We already can't turn off you power based on its "too hot" in Arizona or you can't pay because of "covid" etc... These are existing real work government powers that are currently regulate electricity.

BTW... In Arizona in large parts of the electricity grid is fully smart metered and can turn on and off you power remotely as much as the utility wants. We have prepay meters that allow you to put 2 bucks on it and it will automatically turn off after you use that to stop you from going into debt etc.. Now, I have no idea how the radio mesh network that does all that would hold up to -2 degree temps, but it does work when its 118!

Pro-sumers versus Consumers. That battle rages in the roof-top solar market.

Excelon offers real time rates up here, tied to the LMP price for the region. You still have to pay the capacity charges (fixed network costs) but energy varies every 15 minutes.

It is entirely possible.
 

Sleek-Jet

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In your defense.. while ERCOT isn't regulated.. every single asset that participates within that grid is FERC/NERC/CIP compliant. Its kinda like saying I own my own personal property, while every move you make on in is governed by zoning, building permit, taxes, hoas, special district school district and on an on ....

Good analogy.
 

RitcheyRch

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I just spoke with someone at Aircraft Ducting Repair in Forney, Texas. He said his power was out for about 30 hours.
 

Shlbyntro

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It would ease market transactions with the other ISO's. A larger pool to draw from if ERCOT is tied to the other interconnection.

We currently don't have any black outs due to power shortages up here.

That would be the ONLY benefit. Federal Government bureaucracy would only further destabilize the grid (look at ca) especially with the ongoing drive for "green" energy. I am not saying that Ercot didn't screw up, and there will be major changes to be had. Texas will keep its grid independant and look at the actual facts that caused this situation to unfold which include over dependence on unreliable "green" energy. In the future it may become more reliable, who knows. But these facts will be taken into account.

The other picture here is its been over 30 yrs since Texas has seen these kind of sustained low temperatures, and nearly 125 yrs since it was compounded by snow and ice. It is truly an unprecedented event and one that I will likely never see again in my lifetime. The question to be asked is HOW MUCH should current things be changed because of this once in a lifetime event, to what end, and at what cost??

I was prepared even though I have only lightly been hit. I know a lot of others on here were/are prepared. Theres a lot of texans who werent prepared. I don't have a fancy high dollar standby generator. Just a portable one that can run a couple space heaters with enough gas and diesel to keep it alive for 18 straight hours which I wouldnt do. I'd run it sparingly a couple hours at a time (no i havent had to use it yet but am ready to if I have to) i always have boxes of matches and firewood around. I keep enough food and water in the house to sustain me for a couple of weeks and if that goes up I have an emergency food supply kit that I keep in my garage. I am by no means a prepper but I also believe in not constantly living on the ragged edge. I wish I had nice food right now, but no ive been eating rice and pasta that I always keep on the top levels of my pantry and rarely touch. I've got 1 large carton of eggs left, 1.5 loads of bred and a few days worth of frozen food that I will cook over an open fire if I need to. Ive burned up my fresh vegetable and meat supplies. But im doing OK, I'm not complaining and have only well wishes for people who I know are struggling right now across the Midwest and not just Texas. Florida got hammered with massive thunderstorms and was covered with tornado warnings yesterday but nobodies talking about the people who were effected over there.

Mostly bored out of my mind and passing the time here on RDP while I still have Internet and keeping my phone on constant charge so I have a full battery if I do lose power.

It is what it is at this point and I hope many people, and ERCOT, use it as a learning experience to be better prepared even with just the simple stuff like food water, and any source of heat/energy.

To my fellow Texans and others in the midwest: we are over hump and past the worst of it. Conditions will be rapidly improving into the weekend and next week. We are almost there and can resume life as normal soon!
 

clarence

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Just back from picking up a friend of my (condo) neighbor who was without power and afraid to drive over here (we've power).

Fun out there with no one else about.

I've been waiting on my new wheels to mount my snow-rated A/T tires, but the A/S OEMs did OK.
 

beaverretriever

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Power just came on for the first time in almost 10 hours. We are fricken freezing for sure. Crossing our fingers flights start to happen on Friday. It's pretty miserable for sure.

I posted this in my other thread but this was the HEB supermarket down the street from where we are staying.

20210216_145846.jpg


Bought these bad boy for when power goes out tonight. Jesus saves.
20210216_192208.jpg
 

4Waters

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USMC2010

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My family is in Georgetown, a northern suburb of Austin. As of sometime last night or this morning included with rolling blackouts they have no running water.
 

squeezer

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Finally a response from the White House to the State of Texas. Pound Sand.


You are so used to being lied at from the White House Press Sec that the truth rubs you the wrong way.

FFS people pull your head out of each others asses and fact check some of the crap you are being fed.


 

Ace in the Hole

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no power in any grocery store near me... I found some diapers in a cvs i passed and bought what baby food was left.

Due to the time of power being down, the food loss will be high as was the panic buying. Getting food is going to be fun in the next few days. We have enough..but im sure others are not in the same boat. I have a bad feeling the shitshow is just beginning.
 

Ace in the Hole

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You are so used to being lied at from the White House Press Sec that the truth rubs you the wrong way.

FFS people pull your head out of each others asses and fact check some of the crap you are being fed.



Do you need a set of knee pads? Your knees have got to be exhausted from being on them for old creepy joe so much lately.

Do a google search on the % of power from each source... The mills going down was a contributor, as was the freezing of natural gas lines preventing more plants from coming online. It's a fuckin mess....
 

squeezer

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Do you need a set of knee pads? Your knees have got to be exhausted from being on them for old creepy joe so much lately.

Do a google search on the % of power from each source... The mills going down was a contributor, as was the freezing of natural gas lines preventing more plants from coming online. It's a fuckin mess....


 

Shlbyntro

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You are so used to being lied at from the White House Press Sec that the truth rubs you the wrong way.

FFS people pull your head out of each others asses and fact check some of the crap you are being fed.



Ya that article wasn't one sided at all. The shortages are being caused by the dismantling of our redundant traditional generation plants and drastic reduction in available supply of fuel energy by the green energy nazis. The very redundancies that would come in handy right now. Green energy can not ramp up production when needed. Standby reserve traditional plants can but only if the fuel supply and infrastructure is still there which it is not because of the green energy movement. That is whats causing rolling blackouts.
 

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Power just came on for the first time in almost 10 hours. We are fricken freezing for sure. Crossing our fingers flights start to happen on Friday. It's pretty miserable for sure.

I posted this in my other thread but this was the HEB supermarket down the street from where we are staying.

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Bought these bad boy for when power goes out tonight. Jesus saves.
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Flights are causing issues for my crew and all were cancelled tomorrow in TX. Had to cancel the first leg on american and book on Delta to move the connection from TX to ATL. These tickets were booked prior to the storm
 
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JDKRXW

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We are working on a project in Austin, Trucking is all screwed up (one is still on side of fwy on its side waiting his turn to get aid).One of the guys sent me this from about 10am this morning. Says no sign of any type of salt trucks /plows. Was a Ghost town most the day.
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In Saskatchewan, I drive in snow and Ice pretty much continuously for 4-5 months / yr..... every year.
This pic is pretty bad ... but do-able in an AWD suv or pickup with good tires. You will get where you're going if you take your time.

Having said this -there is one thing I would NEVER, EVER do ..... and that's drive after a snow storm in the southern US.
Drive in the snow in that picture, in TEXAS -- NOT A FREAKING CHANCE.
 
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