Riviera Marina Question

[PlanB]

We have a slip at the LHC Marina (almost 20 years now). We just received and e-mail stating that the LHC Fire Marshal ordered the marina to shut off power to all the docks until all extension cords were removed. Are they doing the same thing at the Riviera Marina?

We have a lift and tenders on our boat and use the power on the dock to power both. I would say most permanent slip holders have a cord and use power. This sounds insane that using supplied power on the doc is not allowed.

Edit:

Just got an text from a dock neighbor that some lady called the fire marshal and filed a complaint after supposedly being shocked while jumping off of a boat in the Marina.

 

[Singleton]

Guess the lady missed the signs about no jumping off the docks

 

[bilz]

She should try a different prop.

 

[PlanB]

Guess the lady missed the signs about no jumping off the docks

No shit. You would think they would tell her it's her fault.

 

[PlanB]

Anyone have any luck with solar tenders? We have a covered slip so direct sunlight is an issue. Will indirect light work at least somewhat to keep the batteries alive?

 

[bonesfab]

If she was able to call the fire marshal, she didn't receive enough shock therapy.

 

[pull-on]

If you can't get power, what's your PlanB?

 

[oldman]

Anyone have any luck with solar tenders? We have a covered slip so direct sunlight is an issue. Will indirect light work at least somewhat to keep the batteries alive?

I have a 5W home brew solar panel mounted on my storage, It is in direct sun though. As long as the batteries are fully charged it will keep them through the off season.
(2) Northstar group 24 Marine AGM.

YMMV.

 

[HALLETT BOY]

We have a slip at the LHC Marina (almost 20 years now). We just received and e-mail stating that the LHC Fire Marshal ordered the marina to shut off power to all the docks until all extension cords were removed. Are they doing the same thing at the Riviera Marina?

We have a lift and tenders on our boat and use the power on the dock to power both. I would say most permanent slip holders have a cord and use power. This sounds insane that using supplied power on the doc is not allowed.

Edit:

Just got a text from a dock neighbor that some lady called the fire marshal and filed a complaint after supposedly being shocked while jumping off of a boat in the Marina.

Wouldn’t all the outdrives and underwater boat hardware be getting eaten up by electrolysis ? Even more so if she was shocked ?

 

[PlanB]

Wouldn’t all the outdrives and underwater boat hardware be getting eaten up by electrolysis ? Even more so if she was shocked ?

I am sure there is some electricity in the water but that is the case at every marina. I am going to plead my case that my boat is not touching the water and no metal from my lift is touching the water but I am not sure it will fly. It sounds like the fire marshal is being a hard ass.

 

[DarkHorseRacing]

Naturally the idiot that can’t read gets rewarded and everyone else suffers.

 

[RiverDave]

I tell my kids all the time no swimming in any marina.. if they are gonna swim we dip a finger in first to check..

 

[hallett21]

I’d bet she got shocked. People get killed all the time from marina electrocution.

That’s why you shouldn’t do it lol.

 

[PlanB]

Found the fire marshal on FB through a mutual friend. Only been on the job for a year. I wonder if he knows every marina in the country has power on the docks? I wonder what the live aboard boats are going to do? LHC Marina manager saying you can't leave anything plugged in overnight. That's when I charge my batteries. Fucking Havasu!

 

[Havasu blue label]

We have a slip at the LHC Marina (almost 20 years now). We just received and e-mail stating that the LHC Fire Marshal ordered the marina to shut off power to all the docks until all extension cords were removed. Are they doing the same thing at the Riviera Marina?

We have a lift and tenders on our boat and use the power on the dock to power both. I would say most permanent slip holders have a cord and use power. This sounds insane that using supplied power on the doc is not allowed.

Edit:

Just got a text from a dock neighbor that some lady called the fire marshal and filed a complaint after supposedly being shocked while jumping off of a boat in the Marina.

some of the ext cords are crossing the main walkway .

 

[Havasu blue label]

Found the fire marshal on FB through a mutual friend. Only been on the job for a year. I wonder if he knows every marina in the country has power on the docks? I wonder what the live aboard boats are going to do? LHC Marina manager saying you can't leave anything plugged in overnight. That's when I charge my batteries. Fucking Havasu!

It’s not that bad the . You moving to the Rivera

 

[PlanB]

some of the ext cords are crossing the main walkway .

The cords on our dock are tucked down between boards. As far as moving to the Riviera, My slip at the LHC Marina is covered and protected almost all the way in the back. Hard to beat and I would think the fire marshal is most likely going to impose this restriction there as well.

 

[oldman]

The cords on our dock are tucked down between boards. As far as moving to the Riviera, My slip at the LHC Marina is covered and protected almost all the way in the back. Hard to beat and I would think the fire marshal is most likely going to impose this restriction there as well.

You can tuck up, hide protect those cords, but they are not to code if they are left in any permanent application.

And that turns into a subjunctive enforcement situation. It's bullshit, but code are codes,

Again I believe its bullshit, but guys that do sloppy things make guys that are more diligent things pay. betting any temp cords are against code. and you get to argue it.

 

[hallett21]

Anyone have any luck with solar tenders? We have a covered slip so direct sunlight is an issue. Will indirect light work at least somewhat to keep the batteries alive?

You’re going to need direct light to really accomplish anything.

Can you put the solar panel on top of the cover?

 

[PlanB]

You can tuck up, hide protect those cords, but they are not to code if they are left in any permanent application.

And that turns into a subjunctive enforcement situation. It's bullshit, but code are codes,

Again I believe its bullshit, but guys that do sloppy things make guys that are more diligent things pay. betting any temp cords are against code. and you get to argue it.

Makes me wonder how all the people that live on their boats at every marina I have ever been to get by.

 

[PlanB]

You’re going to need direct light to really accomplish anything.

Can you put the solar panel on top of the cover?

I don't know. I have a feeling the marina is not going to want solar panels on their covers. I am going to talk to them next week about it.

 

[HNL2LHC]

Interesting note on the electrical concern of swimming in marinas. How far does that concern go outside of a marina area? Any general rule As to how far you need to be concerned?

 

[Bobby V]

The cords on our dock are tucked down between boards. As far as moving to the Riviera, My slip at the LHC Marina is covered and protected almost all the way in the back. Hard to beat and I would think the fire marshal is most likely going to impose this restriction there as well.

Do you think they will allow you to run a approved conduit with a plug to the rear of your dock so you can run a short cord. ?

 

[oldman]

The cords on our dock are tucked down between boards. As far as moving to the Riviera, My slip at the LHC Marina is covered and protected almost all the way in the back. Hard to beat and I would think the fire marshal is most likely going to impose this restriction there as well.

I'm usually not a popular guy, I fight the system every chance I get, Posts her show it,

Find a loophole and exploiter it.

Makes me wonder how all the people that live on their boats at every marina I have ever been to get by.

It's look the other way days.

 

[Ace in the Hole]

It’s not that bad the . You moving to the Rivera

If he does id make him a hell of a deal on a slip…

 

[PlanB]

Do you think they will allow you to run a approved conduit with a plug to the rear of your dock so you can run a short cord. ?

No way.

 

[Socalx09]

My dad received the email this morning. The key word seems to be “unattended extension cords.” so not sure any way around this since they won’t get power back until all the unattended extension cords are removed.

 

[PlanB]

My dad received the email this morning. The key word seems to be “unattended extension cords.” so not sure any way around this since they won’t get power back until all the unattended extension cords are removed.

They will most likely take the cords off of the docks. I am wondering how people with lifts are going to get their boats in the water without power. I would be pissed if I was in town for the weekend and had no power to operate my lift.

 

[Ace in the Hole]

They will most likely take the cords off of the docks. I am wondering how people with lifts are going to get their boats in the water without power. I would be pissed if I was in town for the weekend and had no power to operate my lift.

You can lower without power on a hydro just can’t raise it. Someone’s on a power trip and needs their swinging nuts kicked with a set of steel toes…. Anyone know where he keeps his cooler..???

 

[Travmon]

the key word is unnattended , meaning yes you can run extension cord to your lift or other items while you are there .

 

[RadMan]

It’s her fault
What’s your PlanB
Someone’s on a power trip

 

[Taboma]

Makes me wonder how all the people that live on their boats at every marina I have ever been to get by.

Most Marina rules that do allow cords, state that only 'Marine Rated 30A or 50A shore power cables' can be used. Those marinas have a power pedestal available at every slip, no cords can cross finger or gangways.

 

[Taboma]

Interesting note on the electrical concern of swimming in marinas. How far does that concern go outside of a marina area? Any general rule As to how far you need to be concerned?

Depends on the conductivity of the water and the voltage potential --- like salt vs fresh, 120v vs 240v. Distilled water is an insulator, Lake Havasu water is of course fresh, but with a high mineral content and certainly conductive.
It depends if both the hot and return neutral are immersed, it's also a 3 dimensional parallel circuit, then one needs to factor what's referred to as "Step Voltage" which can actually be higher in fresh water than salt due to the 3 dimensional parallel circuit being greater in salt than fresh, now try to factor, is the swimmer's body vertical or parallel ?

Bottom line, I don't think I'm going to dive in based on Dave's "Finger Test" Oddly, there's divers who make a living being in and under the water daily at marinas cleaning boat bottoms and how often do we read of their ESD fatalities ?
I know when we had our cruiser in San Diego, my diver was alert to sensing any "Tingles" he encountered and would notify Marina Management. For the record wet suits don't protect you, because, well they're wet and so are you.

But you could spend $ 190.00 and purchase one of these ----- https://www.shockalert.com/

The best I can offer here other than a tester, is this very informative article by the ESD (Electric Shock Drowning) Prevention Association, it's well worth a read.

ESD & FAQ

WHAT IS ELECTRIC SHOCK DROWNING? Electric Shock Drowning (ESD) is the result of the passage of a typically low level AC current through the body with sufficient force to cause skeletal...

www.electricshockdrowning.org

I'd imagine that the Riviera's marina electrical is all GFCI protected including all the receptacles. Are the receptacles at Havasu Marina GFCI ??

 

[riverroyal]

I'd do this for now
'Unattended' cords removed now.
By next summer cords will be out again.

 

[mesquito_creek]

Wouldn’t all the outdrives and underwater boat hardware be getting eaten up by electrolysis ? Even more so if she was shocked ?

When I had my boat in a slip, because of all the stray current I would go through a set of anodes every 6 months. It was important to keep those maintained.

 

[RiverDave]

Depends on the conductivity of the water and the voltage potential --- like salt vs fresh, 120v vs 240v. Distilled water is an insulator, Lake Havasu water is of course fresh, but with a high mineral content and certainly conductive.
It depends if both the hot and return neutral are immersed, it's also a 3 dimensional parallel circuit, then one needs to factor what's referred to as "Step Voltage" which can actually be higher in fresh water than salt due to the 3 dimensional parallel circuit being greater in salt than fresh, now try to factor, is the swimmer's body vertical or parallel ?

Bottom line, I don't think I'm going to dive in based on Dave's "Finger Test" Oddly, there's divers who make a living being in and under the water daily at marinas cleaning boat bottoms and how often do we read of their ESD fatalities ?
I know when we had our cruiser in San Diego, my diver was alert to sensing any "Tingles" he encountered and would notify Marina Management. For the record wet suits don't protect you, because, well they're wet and so are you.

But you could spend $ 190.00 and purchase one of these ----- https://www.shockalert.com/

The best I can offer here other than a tester, is this very informative article by the ESD (Electric Shock Drowning) Prevention Association, it's well worth a read.

ESD & FAQ

WHAT IS ELECTRIC SHOCK DROWNING? Electric Shock Drowning (ESD) is the result of the passage of a typically low level AC current through the body with sufficient force to cause skeletal...

www.electricshockdrowning.org

I'd imagine that the Riviera's marina electrical is all GFCI protected including all the receptacles. Are the receptacles at Havasu Marina GFCI ??

I looked at a houseboat in the Havasu marina.. guy said it came with a slip. Anyhow long story short the diver that cleans the boats said there was electricity coming from it. I talked to the guy in charge of the marina and he said that boat will not be staying. I asked if I could have an electrician of his choice fix whatever the problem was and he said it isn’t staying no matter what.. lol.

I passed on the boat. Unfortunately one of my other buddies jumped on it because it was a steal, and found out after the fact he couldn’t keep it in the marina. I think he is sueing the guy that sold it to him because it’s a giant pain in the ass now.

As for the finger test.. at least you get some kinda semblance if there’s electricity in the water.. for the most part though we just don’t swim in marinas..

Couple people died a year or two back on lake Pleasant from electricity in a marina..

RD

 

[RiverDave]

When I had my boat in a slip, because of all the stray current I would go through a set of anodes every 6 months. It was important to keep those maintained.

In he keys in Parker there’s always a little electricity in the water just because all of the houses.. it really screws up any anodizing that you have in the water like swim steps etc..

RD

 

[Maw]

Depends on the conductivity of the water and the voltage potential --- like salt vs fresh, 120v vs 240v. Distilled water is an insulator, Lake Havasu water is of course fresh, but with a high mineral content and certainly conductive.
It depends if both the hot and return neutral are immersed, it's also a 3 dimensional parallel circuit, then one needs to factor what's referred to as "Step Voltage" which can actually be higher in fresh water than salt due to the 3 dimensional parallel circuit being greater in salt than fresh, now try to factor, is the swimmer's body vertical or parallel ?

Bottom line, I don't think I'm going to dive in based on Dave's "Finger Test" Oddly, there's divers who make a living being in and under the water daily at marinas cleaning boat bottoms and how often do we read of their ESD fatalities ?
I know when we had our cruiser in San Diego, my diver was alert to sensing any "Tingles" he encountered and would notify Marina Management. For the record wet suits don't protect you, because, well they're wet and so are you.

But you could spend $ 190.00 and purchase one of these ----- https://www.shockalert.com/

The best I can offer here other than a tester, is this very informative article by the ESD (Electric Shock Drowning) Prevention Association, it's well worth a read.

ESD & FAQ

WHAT IS ELECTRIC SHOCK DROWNING? Electric Shock Drowning (ESD) is the result of the passage of a typically low level AC current through the body with sufficient force to cause skeletal...

www.electricshockdrowning.org

I'd imagine that the Riviera's marina electrical is all GFCI protected including all the receptacles. Are the receptacles at Havasu Marina GFCI ??

When we installed the new dock in Huntington Harbour I went with the 3ma GFCI pedestal breakers rather than the code required 100ma. I seem to recall the human body has issues above 10ma, no point in tempting the issue. I have isolation transformers aboard the boat, keep the cords out of the water, and have never tripped a breaker in 10 years.

 

[Taboma]

I looked at a houseboat in the Havasu marina.. guy said it came with a slip. Anyhow long story short the diver that cleans the boats said there was electricity coming from it. I talked to the guy in charge of the marina and he said that boat will not be staying. I asked if I could have an electrician of his choice fix whatever the problem was and he said it isn’t staying no matter what.. lol.

I passed on the boat. Unfortunately one of my other buddies jumped on it because it was a steal, and found out after the fact he couldn’t keep it in the marina. I think he is sueing the guy that sold it to him because it’s a giant pain in the ass now.

As for the finger test.. at least you get some kinda semblance if there’s electricity in the water.. for the most part though we just don’t swim in marinas..

Couple people died a year or two back on lake Pleasant from electricity in a marina..

RD

As I stated, the variables are infinite because of the environment.
A finger stuck in the water from one slip or dock finger is a poor test probe and if any, provides an indication of an extremely limited area.
Five or ten feet away a swimmer could encounter dangerous current levels.
A person's finger presents a very small area for any detectable level of current to pass through. In the 3D dimension of conductible water, it's an entire environment of "Parallel Circuits".
Which essentially means, the environment that presents the MOST amount of surface area and the LEAST amount of internal resistance will carry the most current.

In our San Diego slip, despite knowing our boat was clear of any current leakage, if I had to go in the water to check my underwater running gear or thru-hulls, I'd use the same method my diver used daily.
I'd sit on my swim step and drop one leg in, if I didn't feel a tingle drop in a 2nd, doing that provides a far more sensitive path where current enters one leg and exits the other (Hence the term Step Voltage), then I'd be careful not to stray far and if so, the safest method is to be positioned vertically and extend one arm as you slowly move forward.

If I still had a boat in a Marina, I'd invest $190 for a Shock-Alert, which weren't available back then.
If you're comfortable with using your finger, then

 

[Taboma]

When we installed the new dock in Huntington Harbour I went with the 3ma GFCI pedestal breakers rather than the code required 100ma. I seem to recall the human body has issues above 10ma, no point in tempting the issue. I have isolation transformers aboard the boat, keep the cords out of the water, and have never tripped a breaker in 10 years.

Isolation transformers are your best defense to protect YOUR boat and like most slips in Huntington Harbor, you've got a good distance between you and your neighbors docks. The Isolation Transformer is essentially isolated from earth ground, so even if downstream current were to leak into the surrounding environment, it wouldn't have or be seeking a return path through the water or your body.

 

[Maw]

Isolation transformers are your best defense to protect YOUR boat and like most slips in Huntington Harbour, you've got a good distance between you and your neighbors docks. The Isolation Transformer is essentially isolated from earth ground, so even if downstream current were to leak into the surrounding environment, it wouldn't have or be seeking a return path through the water or your body.

Taboma, could you drop me a PM when your time allows. Thanks

 

[PlanB]

You can lower without power on a hydro just can’t raise it. Someone’s on a power trip and needs their swinging nuts kicked with a set of steel toes…. Anyone know where he keeps his cooler..???

I have a HarborHoist. The vents that open and close to let air out are electric. There are no manual valves.

 

[PlanB]

Most Marina rules that do allow cords, state that only 'Marine Rated 30A or 50A shore power cables' can be used. Those marinas have a power pedestal available at every slip, no cords can cross finger or gangways.

They are saying no cords at all unless you are present.

 

[PlanB]

Depends on the conductivity of the water and the voltage potential --- like salt vs fresh, 120v vs 240v. Distilled water is an insulator, Lake Havasu water is of course fresh, but with a high mineral content and certainly conductive.
It depends if both the hot and return neutral are immersed, it's also a 3 dimensional parallel circuit, then one needs to factor what's referred to as "Step Voltage" which can actually be higher in fresh water than salt due to the 3 dimensional parallel circuit being greater in salt than fresh, now try to factor, is the swimmer's body vertical or parallel ?

Bottom line, I don't think I'm going to dive in based on Dave's "Finger Test" Oddly, there's divers who make a living being in and under the water daily at marinas cleaning boat bottoms and how often do we read of their ESD fatalities ?
I know when we had our cruiser in San Diego, my diver was alert to sensing any "Tingles" he encountered and would notify Marina Management. For the record wet suits don't protect you, because, well they're wet and so are you.

But you could spend $ 190.00 and purchase one of these ----- https://www.shockalert.com/

The best I can offer here other than a tester, is this very informative article by the ESD (Electric Shock Drowning) Prevention Association, it's well worth a read.

ESD & FAQ

WHAT IS ELECTRIC SHOCK DROWNING? Electric Shock Drowning (ESD) is the result of the passage of a typically low level AC current through the body with sufficient force to cause skeletal...

www.electricshockdrowning.org

I'd imagine that the Riviera's marina electrical is all GFCI protected including all the receptacles. Are the receptacles at Havasu Marina GFCI ??

They all have GFCI's. The divers that bottom clean turn off power to the docks when they are in the water.

 

[poncho]

I looked at a houseboat in the Havasu marina.. guy said it came with a slip. Anyhow long story short the diver that cleans the boats said there was electricity coming from it. I talked to the guy in charge of the marina and he said that boat will not be staying. I asked if I could have an electrician of his choice fix whatever the problem was and he said it isn’t staying no matter what.. lol.

I passed on the boat. Unfortunately one of my other buddies jumped on it because it was a steal, and found out after the fact he couldn’t keep it in the marina. I think he is sueing the guy that sold it to him because it’s a giant pain in the ass now.

As for the finger test.. at least you get some kinda semblance if there’s electricity in the water.. for the most part though we just don’t swim in marinas..

Couple people died a year or two back on lake Pleasant from electricity in a marina..

RD

I think I saw it here but it seems a teen girl got in trouble in the water and her Father jumped in to help and they both drown, horrified me when I read it.

 

[oldman]

I'd do this for now
'Unattended' cords removed now.
By next summer cords will be out again.

View attachment 1408810

If your serious look into the Harbor freight predator.

Just a thought.

And as others have said as long as it's not unattended you should be ok, to plug in for raising and lowering.

 

[Taboma]

They all have GFCI's. The divers that bottom clean turn off power to the docks when they are in the water.

Interesting, never heard of them doing that before, probably not a bad idea, especially with an older fresh water marina.

Is this the article that the Fire Marshall is invoking ? --- " 4. Extension Cords: a. Must not be a substitute for permanent wiring. This means it may not supply power to a device on a continued basis (i.e. overnight). "

https://www.lhcaz.gov/docs/default-source/fire-code/fd-spec-19-electrical-equipment-wiring-and-hazards-(draft-3).pdf?sfvrsn=93401a7c_9

 

[stephenkatsea]

Improper shore power at just about any marina is extremely common. That’s where your zincs will do their thing and provide the protection your underwater gear needs. It’s one of those simple ‘least noble metal deals’. If curious, look it up. They work. Finger test (?). Not really the best mode of detection. But, actually getting electrocuted while swimming in a marina is pretty rare. Unless, you’re watching an episode of that excellent series ‘Ozark’. And that was totally intentional.

What if you could clone a combination of Ruth Langmore and Beth Dutton? Whoa! Now, that’s a very scary thought.

 

[PlanB]

Interesting, never heard of them doing that before, probably not a bad idea, especially with an older fresh water marina.

Is this the article that the Fire Marshall is invoking ? --- " 4. Extension Cords: a. Must not be a substitute for permanent wiring. This means it may not supply power to a device on a continued basis (i.e. overnight). "

https://www.lhcaz.gov/docs/default-source/fire-code/fd-spec-19-electrical-equipment-wiring-and-hazards-(draft-3).pdf?sfvrsn=93401a7c_9

Most likely. It will be interesting to see if all of the docks with power around Havasu will be treated the same.

 

[Taboma]

Improper shore power at just about any marina is extremely common. That’s where your zincs will do their thing and provide the protection your underwater gear needs. It’s one of those simple ‘least noble metal deals’. If curious, look it up. They work. Finger test (?). Not really the best mode of detection. But, actually getting electrocuted while swimming in a marina is pretty rare. Unless, you’re watching an episode of that excellent series ‘Ozark’. And that was totally intentional.

Improper shore power is only half the equation. Now factor in the boats themselves. They frequently have antiquated systems wiring, have not been maintained, have been modified and have improperly wired Shore Power, Generator and Invertor system circuits.
In the 25 years we had boats in salt water marinas I never heard of any electrocutions or reports of being shocked. Despite rules prohibiting swimming (Which most viewed as Marina CYA), it wasn't all that uncommon, especially on warmer weekends or holidays.
Mostly what I heard and saw was a lot of accusations and finger pointing due to rapid Anode loss.