Re-pipe with PEX?

[SoCalDave]

Raised foundation house built in 1959 with original galvanized pipe is pretty close to being closed-up inside.
What's the RDP brain trust think about re-piping with PEX? I see it being used more and more these days and want to feel it to be "safe" to install over copper.

 

[RitcheyRch]

Our entire house is done in PEX and have not had any issues.

 

[240Hallett]

Do you run the PEX all the way up to the shut off valves under the sinks?

 

[SoCalDave]

Do you run the PEX all the way up to the shut off valves under the sinks?

Yes

 

[Boat 405]

Pex is used in a lot of new construction these days. With that said I'd never use it for potable water if I had the choice. As time is going to show us unfortunately. Chlorine degrades pex over time. Our water is chlorinated that we get, it causes stress cracks and eventually fails. Copper will have no issues with chlorine. The two biggest issue's with copper are, poor installation, failure to debur the end of a cut pipe causing erosion corrosion at fittings especially 90's. The other problem is plumbers installing too big of a recirc pump for hot water which over time also causes erosion corrosion at fittings because too high of water flow.

I've been soldering pipe for over 30 years, I have un sweat hundreds of fittings, probably soldered thousands of fittings over my life, probably more like tens of thousands. I have NEVER taken apart someone elses work that actually spent the time to debur fittings. Even though it is CODE to do so.

The new problem with pex is the joints and 90's are now plastic too. lots of them are cracking and failing as well.

Copper IF installed correctly and all fitting deburred will out last your kids.

 

[n2otoofast4u]

PEX is the best long term option at this point, as well as cheaper and faster to install. We install 100,000s of thousands of feet of it per year. We use Uponor, which is expansion, I feel its the better system, but the other systems seem to do well also.

 

[johnnyC]

i re-plumbed a house with pex from Ferguson the expansion type ends.... need the special tool.... went real easy but if you want flow up size your product, if you look at the cross section of the pex vs copper the pex has a smaller inside diameter. don't use the product from home depot or lowes get it from a plumbing supply i feel its a better product

 

[Yoshiro]

This is a our new house construction going on right now. I hope it lasts as long as I'll be there. It was amazing how fast and easy the plumbing went in. We have well water so no chlorine.

 

[NicPaus]

Uponor pex is the way to go. Here in the Southbay. They switched to Chloramine years ago to treat the water instead of chlorine. Pin hole leaks are very common with copper. I have seen a few issues with the pex though as well but most is over 10 years old and Uponor warranties it. Just make sure no sunlight hits the pex and it's properly installed. I prefer the copper pex stub outs over running pex to angle stop. I have the Dewalt and Milwaukee pex expansion tools.

 

[lbhsbz]

The galvanized pipe lasted 60 years. Anything else installed correctly should have no problem making it another 20 or 30 years. If you're not planning to be in the house in 20 years, I'd go with the cheapest option.

 

[Spudsbud]

Uhh...... Pin hole leaks are very common with copper.
what kind of copper you been running?
TypeM not typeL ?
My discrepency is not with the PEX, but the compression fittings that make the seal.
I'm sure they've improved but first.gen a few years back started leaking....Alot.
Proof? After rhe State of Cali. approved its use to the union plumbers, and they began to fail by the thousands. The State had to approve a special fund to pay for the houses to be redone again. Wonderful.
Installed correctly I've never heard of.copper failing under normal use.

Retired Pipefitter/Plumber. 42 years.

Jim

 

[NicPaus]

I have seen pin holes in type L within 5 years. I had 1 at 9 years and I reamed the pipe personally. Over 20 years ago inspector had us tear out all the new plumbing on a house because the plumber we used told him reaming was not necessary. Never made that mistake again. I did a kitchen 7 or 8 years ago for a Guy that worked for the water department. He explained to me why they went from chlorine to chloramine. Ever since pin holes are very common around here. Back in the day I would say type L copper all day long. Last 2 new houses I built that I have to warranty for 10 years Uponor Pex was used.

 

[NicPaus]

The galvanized pipe lasted 60 years. Anything else installed correctly should have no problem making it another 20 or 30 years. If you're not planning to be in the house in 20 years, I'd go with the cheapest option.

My buddy that is 3rd generation plumber with a license number starting with a 2. Jokes around and says maybe we should go back to galvanized. He has to repair a few pin holes or cracks in uponor making him say that. Never seen galvanized pin hole. It just rusts shut and you lose water pressure.

 

[lbhsbz]

My buddy that is 3rd generation plumber with a license number starting with a 2. Jokes around and says maybe we should go back to galvanized. He has to repair a few pin holes or cracks in uponor making him say that. Never seen galvanized pin hole. It just rusts shut and you lose water pressure.

Can’t argue with him...haven’t really seen anything last longer. I think everyone is to lazy to deal with threaded connections anymore unless they have to on gas lines.

 

[COCA COLA COWBOY]

From a realtors view, when Pex is used, I know I am going to have an issue in some sort of fashion. I've had two homes with Pex that had leaks in the disclosures and it almost became an issue to the seller's bottom line. I personally, would always use copper.

 

[Ace in the Hole]

Uhh...... Pin hole leaks are very common with copper.
what kind of copper you been running?

The house in havasu had to be re-plumbed. 3 pin hole leaks that caused major damage in under a 5 year period. Home was built in the 90's. i know there were a lot of claims on houses built during that age range a few years back.

 

[Drew]

I got tons of miles of pex installed. We use it in just about every new install. I personally think it is garbage. It has a 40 year life expectancy . So most houses we do that are over 10k square feet I push for copper. But track housing is always pex . The only real good place to use pex is for radiant heat and snow melt systems. Other than that I don’t think the polyethylene is real good for humans to drink. As far as pin holes in copper I see in with people who have well water or a bad neutral in the electric panel causing the ground to have power causing electrolysis in the bond wire to water main. But imo if it were me I would use copper

 

[rivermobster]

Redid my house in PEX. Super easy to add a hot water recirculating syat8at the time.

Well worth it!

 

[NicPaus]

If you are set on using copper. I would have them bid it for K in the walls and L where accessible. I have done a few kitchen and bathroom remodels where I used all K. Have not done a whole house in K but have plumber friends that have. If I was building a new house for myself that I never planned to sell I would consider all K.

 

[28Eliminator]

I have it installed in approx 530 homes (over 16 years). We have had very little problems with it. Far better than Copper IMO.

 

[Mandelon]

For the house we built last year, which was on a raised foundation, we used PEX under the house in the crawl space, and transitioned to copper from there up into the walls and shut off valves. If the plastic leaks, it will be easy to repair. I have a seen holes in both types. Kept buyers happy enough.

 

[240Hallett]

Do the tools that are needed for the PEX install make it prohibitive for the DIY home owner?

 

[rivermobster]

Do the tools that are needed for the PEX install make it prohibitive for the DIY home owner?

Nope.

 

[SoCalDave]

Which ever way I go I'll be subbing it out to peeps that do this stuff for a living, besides I can't fit my fat ass under the house anymore.

 

[NicPaus]

@6 balls is a repipe specialist.

 

[Trash]

Just be advised there are basically 4 kinds of PEX. I would recommend PEX A. PEX A has a different chemical composition than PEX B and the other two.

PEX A has several advantages over PEX B.

PEX A requires one of the expansion tools as it is shrink to fit. (it is always trying to shrink around a fitting and never trying to loosen up). PEX B is the compression band fitting. Once a PEX B band is set thats it. It won't try to get tighter over time.

PEX A elbows or fittings have full diameter flow thru where as PEX B fitting ID is smaller than the main line which will cause minor flow restriction losses over the run. Minerals and water deposits do not adhere to PEX. You won't get that calcium build up inside the lines. PEX allows for continuous bends which minimizes joints (i.e. leaks) and allows for better flow (continuous sweeps vs a bunch of elbows). PEX is much faster to install.

Water flows much quieter through PEX and water hammering is virtually eliminated.

Both PEX A and B are resistant to chlorine. Older versions of PEX had chlorine issues.

Here is the kicker....many stores carry PEX. BUT!.....it might be PEX B at one store and PEX A at another. Be consistent with product use. Local Lowes has all PEX B stuff (but they just call it PEX). Local Home Depot has PEX A but they just call it PEX. Confusing to the uninformed.

The only real downside to PEX is the UV instability and the cost of the tool ($400 for a new Milwaukee unit). Keep it out of sunlight and you are fine. I found a local Ferguson supply store that will rent out the PEX A tool. There are likely other places that rent the tool as well.

 

[Trash]

I got tons of miles of pex installed. We use it in just about every new install. I personally think it is garbage. It has a 40 year life expectancy . So most houses we do that are over 10k square feet I push for copper. But track housing is always pex . The only real good place to use pex is for radiant heat and snow melt systems. Other than that I don’t think the polyethylene is real good for humans to drink. As far as pin holes in copper I see in with people who have well water or a bad neutral in the electric panel causing the ground to have power causing electrolysis in the bond wire to water main. But imo if it were me I would use copper

PEX A has a 100 year life.

 

[Boat 405]

The main difference in Pex A and Pex B is the amount of cross linking in the manufacturing process. Pex A is better.

Now Pex AL is something just to run from. It has an aluminum internal layer and is known for problems..

 

[mjc]

Have any of you used a Manabloc? I have one with pex and have an individual shutoff for each line that can be shut down if anything leaks

 

[highvoltagehands]

My sister and BIL and bunch of their neighbors had problems with Rats chEwing up their PEX. When a bunch open space was developed near their home a couple years ago, it pushed rats into their neighborhood. They started getting leaks, every time one was fixed, another would start. So they paid a professional to seal up their home and get rid of rats, only helped for awhile. After 4-5 leaks, they decided to move out and removed all PEX they could and installed Copper lines through out. The insurance covered everything except the cost of reinstalling copper. I heard original PEX was manufactured with “Milk Thistle” so it actually attracts rats....

 

[Javajoe]

My sister and BIL and bunch of their neighbors had problems with Rats chEwing up their PEX. When a bunch open space was developed near their home a couple years ago, it pushed rats into their neighborhood. They started getting leaks, every time one was fixed, another would start. So they paid a professional to seal up their home and get rid of rats, only helped for awhile. After 4-5 leaks, they decided to move out and removed all PEX they could and installed Copper lines through out. The insurance covered everything except the cost of reinstalling copper. I heard original PEX was manufactured with “Milk Thistle” so it actually attracts rats....

Yep, seen lots of chewed up PEX from rats in attics.

 

[XX14]

Have any of you used a Manabloc? I have one with pex and have an individual shutoff for each line that can be shut down if anything leaks
View attachment 980067

I had a home with this and really liked it. When we built our new home the builder said it was a bad idea. Instead I had them install a shutoff to all the external hose bibs so when we get a freeze it’s easy to winterize, apparently we need to do this in Central Texas now. Also had a main house shutoff installed both in an inspection panel in the garage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Xtrmwakeboarder]

Isn’t Pex A better for places where it gets cold too? I’d imagine way fewer issues with freezing and then thawing than copper.

I’ve also heard there can be less joints as you can gradually bend it around in the walls rather than installing 90s everywhere.

 

[CoolCruzin]

Had to repipe the house cause the copper was developed leaks . 4 times but about 30 year old .
We did the complete house with pex.
Time will tell how long this will last.

 

[Babyback]

Uponor pex is the way to go. Here in the Southbay. They switched to Chloramine years ago to treat the water instead of chlorine. Pin hole leaks are very common with copper. I have seen a few issues with the pex though as well but most is over 10 years old and Uponor warranties it. Just make sure no sunlight hits the pex and it's properly installed. I prefer the copper pex stub outs over running pex to angle stop. I have the Dewalt and Milwaukee pex expansion tools.

We just re-piped our home using Uponor PEX

 

[petie6464]

PEX A has a 100 year life.

In 70 years you'll know of that's a fact or not.

 

[Trash]

Isn’t Pex A better for places where it gets cold too? I’d imagine way fewer issues with freezing and then thawing than copper.

I’ve also heard there can be less joints as you can gradually bend it around in the walls rather than installing 90s everywhere.

Yes.

PEX A is better for flexibility and the fact that fitting ID is larger. I eliminated a ton of elbows with PEX A. Just run it contiguously from point A to B. For long runs it can be incredibly fast. Plus if you dick it up you can easily cut the fitting and redo it.

PEX B is fine too but I prefer the fitting style and higher flow of PEX A.

 

[Trash]

In 70 years you'll know of that's a fact or not.

Manufacturer claim of 100 years. My copper has failed multiple times in 30 years. Copper is great, not knocking it if you get the good stuff. PEX A is just so slick for install and connecting.

 

[stoker22405]

Buddys mom in Diamond bar had Pex...Rats had a good time with it a few times...

 

[wishiknew]

Buddys mom in Diamond bar had Pex...Rats had a good time with it a few times...

One question why was there RATS in her house ?????

 

[stoker22405]

They tend to show up without invitation

 

[TimeBandit]

My rental house built in 1956 had iron pipes. Somewhere along the line the hot water heater was moved outside with Korean iron pipes, 20 years ago one of the Korean pipes started to leak, I had the repipe done in copper, all good so far.

The house I live in was re piped in copper before I bought it 20 years ago, they used a lot of "bendable" copper. One day I was in the garage and felt water hitting my face, one of the "bendable" 3/4" pipes had developed a pinhole and was squirting me as I stood there. Now I cringe that it could happen in walls I can't see.... so copper ain't perfect. Not the bendable kind anyway!

 

[grumpy88]

Pex is good enough for the guys on" this old house " its good enough for me !

 

[Drew]

I’m going to say as a plumber for 27 years pex is just “ ok” it’s fast and a 3 month helper can do it. But in comparison to copper it’s not even close to better. But people say it’s the cats meow so I’ll keep installing it for the same copper price I used to do. But to leave you with an honest opinion on what to use in my honest opinion do l copper. Have been proven for 100 years. Pex has only been out for 60 years and only in the past 20 has it been something “big” here and abroad . But i think it’s junk. That being said...... I guess it depends on how old you are...... if you will outlast it.... or if you have rats lol

 

[NicPaus]

Water in the South Bay area also used to be treated with Chlorine. Now it's treated with chloramine. I believe many other areas are chloramine now as well. Ever since the chloramine it has been a problem. My GF house is 12 years old. Repiped after the 5th pin hole. Had 2 pin holes from the main to house and its a straight shot. 3 others in different areas. 1 took out the lower level wood floors.

I am at a job now finishing up a kitchen. Since I started here it has developed a pin hole under neath. Luckily raised foundation. A hose clamp and piece of rubber tubing and its good for now.

 

[HPBoats83]

Pex is used in a lot of new construction these days. With that said I'd never use it for potable water if I had the choice. As time is going to show us unfortunately. Chlorine degrades pex over time. Our water is chlorinated that we get, it causes stress cracks and eventually fails. Copper will have no issues with chlorine. The two biggest issue's with copper are, poor installation, failure to debur the end of a cut pipe causing erosion corrosion at fittings especially 90's. The other problem is plumbers installing too big of a recirc pump for hot water which over time also causes erosion corrosion at fittings because too high of water flow.

I've been soldering pipe for over 30 years, I have un sweat hundreds of fittings, probably soldered thousands of fittings over my life, probably more like tens of thousands. I have NEVER taken apart someone elses work that actually spent the time to debur fittings. Even though it is CODE to do so.

The new problem with pex is the joints and 90's are now plastic too. lots of them are cracking and failing as well.

Copper IF installed correctly and all fitting deburred will out last your kids.

You could use no lead brass pex fittings as well

 

[CarolynandBob]

I have to run a water line from my house to my shop this summer. Was going to use regular PVC. This is just for a shop sink. Would running PEX be better? Is it ok 2 ft deep or should I just stick with PVC?

 

[FreeBird236]

I have to run a water line from my house to my shop this summer. Was going to use regular PVC. This is just for a shop sink. Would running PEX be better? Is it ok 2 ft deep or should I just stick with PVC?

I'd go with whatever transitions the easiest.

 

[HPBoats83]

I have to run a water line from my house to my shop this summer. Was going to use regular PVC. This is just for a shop sink. Would running PEX be better? Is it ok 2 ft deep or should I just stick with PVC?

I’d go pvc


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HBCraig]

I have a single story house built in 1967. Put copper in just as we moved in here in 2003. Knock on wood its been great. I wish I would have gone with a little bigger diameter. My neighbor did