prying up around the edges (Gun laws)

[jetboatperformance]

The Second Amendment rights of more than 4 million Americans are at risk thanks to Republicans in Congress

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018...t-risk-thanks-to-republicans-in-congress.html

 

[SBMech]

Fucking bullshit. We need to drag the entire senate out on the front lawn of the White House and execute them all.

Every day I think to myself, can they actually make things worse today? Seems like they rise to the challenge daily.

 

[highvoltagehands]

Anyone not believe the saying: "If you don't manage a problem, someone else will manage problem for you."
It's true and is happening to gun owner rights because nothing is being done to curb gun violence problem. We don't want to see gun control, don't want to lose our gun rights, but unfortunately every time some whacko commits gun crime, it gives gun control more ammo. Us just saying "Guns don't kill, people kill" isn't going to fix problem or change opinion. Its time we pro gun peeps decide to do something, before someone decides it for us. I know I'm gonna get a ton of shit for saying this:
I'm for increasing background checks, I'll wait a few more days if it helps weed out felons and mentally unstable people that shouldn't have guns.
Run gun ownership checks and remove guns from those convicted of certain crimes until they prove ok.
Before arming teachers and students try educating them to recognize and deal with problems, active shooter situations.
I don't know the answers, but I do know if we don't do something to lower gun crime asap, someone will do it for us, we'll lose more or maybe all our gun rights as some other countries have done.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Anyone not believe the saying: "If you don't manage a problem, someone else will manage problem for you."
It's true and is happening to gun owner rights because nothing is being done to curb gun violence problem. We don't want to see gun control, don't want to lose our gun rights, but unfortunately every time some whacko commits gun crime, it gives gun control more ammo. Us just saying "Guns don't kill, people kill" isn't going to fix problem or change opinion. Its time we pro gun peeps decide to do something, before someone decides it for us. I know I'm gonna get a ton of shit for saying this:
I'm for increasing background checks, I'll wait a few more days if it helps weed out felons and mentally unstable people that shouldn't have guns.
Run gun ownership checks and remove guns from those convicted of certain crimes until they prove ok.
Before arming teachers and students try educating them to recognize and deal with problems, active shooter situations.
I don't know the answers, but I do know if we don't do something to lower gun crime asap, someone will do it for us, we'll lose more or maybe all our gun rights as some other countries have done.

What you described is pretty much the law with small exceptions. It is just not enforced, and the databases do not talk or crimes/mental health issues are not reported, or can’t be reported because of other regulations (Hipaa in the case of mental issues).

How is that the fault of a gun?

Gun crime is lower than it has been in 50 years... and there are easily 10 times as many as guns and bullets around.

What to do something? Stop “protecting” “troubled kids” and If they screw up punish them so it is on record. Pay attention to warning signs and our government should follow up on leads served up to them.

Obviously armed people in schools can work, despite the lack of media attention on the recent shooting that was thwarted.

 

[Ouderkirk]

Anyone not believe the saying: "If you don't manage a problem, someone else will manage problem for you."
It's true and is happening to gun owner rights because nothing is being done to curb gun violence problem. We don't want to see gun control, don't want to lose our gun rights, but unfortunately every time some whacko commits gun crime, it gives gun control more ammo. Us just saying "Guns don't kill, people kill" isn't going to fix problem or change opinion. Its time we pro gun peeps decide to do something, before someone decides it for us. I know I'm gonna get a ton of shit for saying this:
I'm for increasing background checks, I'll wait a few more days if it helps weed out felons and mentally unstable people that shouldn't have guns.
Run gun ownership checks and remove guns from those convicted of certain crimes until they prove ok.
Before arming teachers and students try educating them to recognize and deal with problems, active shooter situations.
I don't know the answers, but I do know if we don't do something to lower gun crime asap, someone will do it for us, we'll lose more or maybe all our gun rights as some other countries have done.

A swift and certain execution for murder would go a long way to curbing these sorts of activities. If, and that's a pretty large if, you manage to be executed, in most cases the perpetrator will lived longer after being convicted than the victim did in their entirety. The execution should be by the same means as was used to kill the victim.

Thomas Jefferson advocated for execution the day following conviction, unless it was Sunday and then it would be done Monday. An expeditious departure for hell is warranted as a warning to others.

 

[CigAjerk]

I wear this shirt every now again. The conversations that come from it are always interesting. But then again, this is AZ

 

[spectra3279]

Anyone not believe the saying: "If you don't manage a problem, someone else will manage problem for you."
It's true and is happening to gun owner rights because nothing is being done to curb gun violence problem. We don't want to see gun control, don't want to lose our gun rights, but unfortunately every time some whacko commits gun crime, it gives gun control more ammo. Us just saying "Guns don't kill, people kill" isn't going to fix problem or change opinion. Its time we pro gun peeps decide to do something, before someone decides it for us. I know I'm gonna get a ton of shit for saying this:
I'm for increasing background checks, I'll wait a few more days if it helps weed out felons and mentally unstable people that shouldn't have guns.
Run gun ownership checks and remove guns from those convicted of certain crimes until they prove ok.
Before arming teachers and students try educating them to recognize and deal with problems, active shooter situations.
I don't know the answers, but I do know if we don't do something to lower gun crime asap, someone will do it for us, we'll lose more or maybe all our gun rights as some other countries have done.

I'm still trying to figure out which part of shall not be infringed do they not understand

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[highvoltagehands]

I don't know answer, nor do I want gun control. But unfortunately something IS going to be done to curb gun violence. Hopefully Pro Gun industry proposes change before Gun Control forces change.

 

[spectra3279]

I don't know answer, nor do I want gun control. But unfortunately something IS going to be done to curb gun violence. Hopefully Pro Gun industry proposes change before Gun Control forces change.

The only thing that can and will fix it is the put the blame where it rightfully belongs. On the people committing the crimes.

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[highvoltagehands]

The only thing that can and will fix it is the put the blame where it rightfully belongs. On the people committing the crimes.

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Your right Spectra, That's where it should be.

 

[DLC]

Bare with me for a moment....


However ....
If this was freedom of speech, we wouldn’t be having this discussion! IE- Bullies, freedom of the press, slander. Does the same amount of damage!

Words hurt! And there are mean people that use bad words

Guns are illegal in Chicago and that doesn’t stop killings or shootings... so what side of the mouth do our ellected officials want to talk out of now!

Schools need to able to be locked down, secured and nobody un Authorized allowed on any campus! How many people just walk onto /into any military base, city buildings, airport, private business... most of the school fences are designed to keep students in school and NOT out of school...

When I was in high school we had an open campus and could leave at lunch to go to McDonald’s, after they changed that and closed down campus they set up fencing to keep students on campus and Not be able to just walk off.... we also had A Gary McNeil who was a big ass guy that would be able to whip your ass in you messed up or you needed an attitude adjustment, he was a huge detourmen to the average kid! Anybody who played football knew not to mess with him.

I also visit biotech facilities all the time and I can not just walk onto or into their facilities with out being cleared for access, I often have to wait for my contact to arrive or I am escorted to a meeting location/ conference room, why are schools different?

Common sense should play a big roll in the way we raise /PROTECT our kids!

Nobody is breaking into the ol popo station to take out ol blue! That’s where the guns are.... We need to double down on guns and make schools all guns zones! As guns free zones are all just shooting galleries for bad guys! Every one of those guys freakes out once a good guy with a gun shows up to their shoot....

What is also really stupid is why there isn’t more outrage about car accident deaths! This was a quick google search, see graph below

More kids will die from txting / driving than from guns

I understand that the original post was meant to control guns, or to move to middle ground.... but that isn’t going to happen until guns are gone!
All of my guns are law abiding guns! I must have Not bought then at a gun show! As that’s where all the bad guns go to get sold and purchased...

 

[robby dmax]

Well said⤴⤴

 

[NorCalRiverRat]

its clear from DLC's chart car MFG have made advanced improvements to car safety, And gun mfg continue to make more advanced lethal weapon's.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

its clear from DLC's chart car MFG have made advanced improvements to car safety, And gun mfg continue to make more advanced lethal weapon's.

And yet deaths due to firearms continue to decline in America... Unpossible!!

 

[NorCalRiverRat]

And yet deaths due to firearms continue to decline in America... Unpossible!!

are we reading the same chart ?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

are we reading the same chart ?

That includes suicide by gun, an invalid stat regarding gun violence that should not be added to the tally.

A better stat with homicide specifically, although not quite up to date. Notice that "other guns" are used in a fraction of the deaths handguns are.. a few thousand a year.

So tell me what good banning "ASSAULT WEAPONS" that are "more lethal than ever" would do? It is the lowest return in terms of loss of life. We should ban knives as well based on that argument.

Explain how guns are now "More Lethal" than 10-15-or 20 years ago?

 

[wsuwrhr]

Spin even I didn't see coming. From the mind of a liberal. Just "amaaaasing"

its clear from DLC's chart car MFG have made advanced improvements to car safety, And gun mfg continue to make more advanced lethal weapon's.

 

[CigAjerk]

The other misleading portion of charts like the one shown is, how many of the homicides by gun were cause by someone who obtained the gun illegally, used a stolen weapon, should not have been in possession of a gun, etc? How many of those homicides would not have happened if the existing or even new/proposed laws were followed? Enforcement really means nothing to me when it comes to this discussion because there were multiple laws in place throughout multiple dates on this particular chart yet gun deaths still happened by people who weren't supposed to have them.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

The other misleading portion of charts like the one shown is, how many of the homicides by gun were cause by someone who obtained the gun illegally, used a stolen weapon, should not have been in possession of a gun, etc? How many of those homicides would not have happened if the existing or even new/proposed laws were followed? Enforcement really means nothing to me when it comes to this discussion because there were multiple laws in place throughout multiple dates on this particular chart yet gun deaths still happened by people who weren't supposed to have them.

Correct. That no one even knows, because those tallys are only counted homicides, not solved homicide cases. In Chicago for instance hundreds are dying per year, and there only a handful of arrests.

 

[CigAjerk]

Correct. That no one even knows, because those tallys are only counted homicides, not solved homicide cases. In Chicago for instance hundreds are dying per year, and there only a handful of arrests.

But they have a bullet hole in them so let's keep blaming guns because that's clearly the problem.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

But they have a bullet hole in them so let's keep blaming guns because that's clearly the problem.

Correct again.

 

[DC-88]

US population has increased a lot since 1976, probably by close to 100 million more people... so per capita it's safer now than at the start of that graph

 

[Tank]

Why is the govt worried about a bunch of old people buying guns? Whens the last time an elderly person went on a shooting rampage?? Where's the stats to justify this? This is completely out of left field. Totally baffling....Is this just lip service to please dems? I don't get this at all.

 

[dribble]

Why is the govt worried about a bunch of old people buying guns? Whens the last time an elderly person went on a shooting rampage?? Where's the stats to justify this? This is completely out of left field. Totally baffling....Is this just lip service to please dems? I don't get this at all.

Uh. Las Vegas.

 

[dribble]

Bare with me for a moment....



View attachment 629564

There are 20,000 gun suicides in the United States every year, more than 50 every single day. That’s more than half of all suicides and two-thirds of all gun deaths. These tragedies rarely make the news, or prompt action from our lawmakers, but they add up to a national tragedy of staggering proportions. Fortunately, there are real actions we can take to dramatically reduce the number of gun suicides in our nation. One of the most significant things we can do is to stop making it so easy for so many people to take their own lives. This means not just thinking about the why people take their own lives, but also thinking about the way, which far too often is easy access to a gun.

The real problem with the chart. This information is provided by the Brady campaign (the Anti- NRA) but definitely relevant to this discussion. The fact is that most gun deaths are suicides. These numbers also reflect justifiable homicides by law abiding citizens and police shootings. Take just those two factors out of the mix and we find that we are at a much bigger risk of dying in a car than we are of dying from a gunshot.

 

[riverroyal]

riverdaves place should have a boating section.

 

[DaveC]

US population in 1976 was 218 million, in 1994 it was 263 million, in 2014 it was 318 million

For the first chart the deaths by gun has gone down when measured per capita to population ( 0.01102% in 1994 to 0.01037% in 2014)

For the second chart the homicides by handguns has gone down when measured per capita to population (0.00367% in 1976 and 0.002516% in 2014)

Good thing I did not round the second numbers to two decimal places because we would say that it went from 0.00% to 0.00%.

 

[DaveC]

We did. But Grads threadcrapped on it.

riverdaves place should have a boating section.

 

[pronstar]

Moar guns, less crime.

68% of murders occur in 5% of cities. Location, not guns, is the difference.

Wait, more gun laws makes Chicago less safe? What???


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[Tank]

Uh. Las Vegas.

I was referring to the targeted class in this bill. elderly that don't have control of their finances and/or deterred mental health.....Vegas just goes to show you the irrelevance of this type of gun control. Vegas shooter was not in that class.

I'm no conspiracy theorist but if I was, I'd presume they (republicans / pro gun groups)want mentally incapacitated elders to be banned from gun purchases because it's going to lower the number of gun violence stats in the US dramatically via lowering suicide by gun of elderly subjs (which is a huge portion of those that kill themselves each year). Just sayin'

 

[Tank]

This guy is great. Watch at the 17:40 mark specifically.....He just flabbergasts the kid with the fact, while there is at the most 30k people killed with guns a year (over half is suicide), there is anywhere from 500k to 3million violent crimes stopped by guns. Listen in the beginning too when he talks about the Steven Willaford shooting where Willaford (and NRA instructor) stopped a mass shooter with his personal AR. Great stuff.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Uh. Las Vegas.

That dude was not financially incompetent.

 

[highvoltagehands]

I see a lot skewed numbers for gun deaths, now triple that amount and you'll have number of gun related injuries that are often forgotten.
FYI In Chicago, only assault rifles are banned. Handguns and rifles are legal and concealed carry are still issued. In Chicago crimes 60% of new guns used in gang crime, 30+% guns used non-gang crimes were bought in Indiana or Wisconsin, and other states with no waiting period or background checks. In 2016 Alaska had highest percentage of gun deaths per capita, while Texas had the most gun deaths total in US.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm
http://www.bradycampaign.org/key-gun-violence-statistics

 

[pronstar]

I see a lot skewed numbers for gun deaths, now triple that amount and you'll have number of gun related injuries that are often forgotten.
FYI In Chicago, only assault rifles are banned. Handguns and rifles are legal and concealed carry are still issued. In Chicago crimes 60% of new guns used in gang crime, 30+% guns used non-gang crimes were bought in Indiana or Wisconsin, and other states with no waiting period or background checks. In 2016 Alaska had highest percentage of gun deaths per capita, while Texas had the most gun deaths total in US.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm
http://www.bradycampaign.org/key-gun-violence-statistics

That argument falls apart when you realize that the “gun providing” surrounding areas have significantly lower crime rates than Chicago, despite the easier access to firearms.

Why is that?
Because it’s the people, not the tools.

68% of gun murders occur in 5% of our cities.


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[highvoltagehands]

That argument falls apart when you realize that the “gun providing” surrounding areas have significantly lower crime rates than Chicago, despite the easier access to firearms.

Why is that?
Because it’s the people, not the tools.

68% of gun murders occur in 5% of our cities.

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Not true my man, Look at firearm death rate per capita. Indiana 15.0 is higher Illinois 11.7, Wisconsin is slightly lower than Illinois at 11.4.
Unfortunately to be effective every state needs to at least do background checks. If not, thats where illegal gun owner's will go to purchase guns.

 

[mjc]

Not true my man, Look at firearm death rate per capita. Indiana 15.0 is higher Illinois 11.7, Wisconsin is slightly lower than Illinois at 11.4.
Unfortunately to be effective every state needs to at least do background checks. If not, thats where illegal gun owner's will go to purchase guns.

Every state does background checks. It is federal law.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Not true my man, Look at firearm death rate per capita. Indiana 15.0 is higher Illinois 11.7, Wisconsin is slightly lower than Illinois at 11.4.
Unfortunately to be effective every state needs to at least do background checks. If not, thats where illegal gun owner's will go to purchase guns.

FYI - Illegal gun owners purchase guns illegally. Going to a state without a waiting period is not illegal. Every gun dealer in the country does a background check. They do not have to be done universally for private sales. Bringing that gun across state lines could be illegal, I don’t know.

So one neighboring state had a lower gun death rate, one is higher, that does not prove your argument.

You are acting as if these criminal networks do not illegally obtain and traffic guns all over the country. Criminals dont waste their time driving state to state to buy guns.

 

[highvoltagehands]

Every state does background checks. It is federal law.

That's what I thought, but not true.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole

 

[pronstar]

Not true my man, Look at firearm death rate per capita. Indiana 15.0 is higher Illinois 11.7, Wisconsin is slightly lower than Illinois at 11.4.
Unfortunately to be effective every state needs to at least do background checks. If not, thats where illegal gun owner's will go to purchase guns.

Your first post was specifically for Chicago.

Now you’re bringing the entire state of Illinois into the debate mid-stream.

And it still supports my point - guns are less restricted in Illinois outside of Chicago. Why is the murder rate higher in Chicago?


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[pronstar]

That's what I thought, but not true.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole
View attachment 629832

Every state does background checks on new gun purchases.

Every state does background checks on used gun purchases done through a firearms dealer licensed to sell guns. E.g pawn shops, gun stores and the like.

Used-gun, private-party (non-business) transfers vary from state to state.




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[highvoltagehands]

FYI - Illegal gun owners purchase guns illegally. Going to a state without a waiting period is not illegal. Every gun dealer in the country does a background check. They do not have to be done universally for private sales. Bringing that gun across state lines could be illegal, I don’t know.

So one neighboring state had a lower gun death rate, one is higher, that does not prove your argument.

You are acting as if these criminal networks do not illegally obtain and traffic guns all over the country. Criminals dont waste their time driving state to state to buy guns.

I don't want lose anymore gun rights. Don't want to take any legal citizens guns either. But I don't want criminals, whackos, illegals or non citizens being able to buy a guns thru a loop hole either. Fed law only requires licensed dealers in state to do background checks, not gun shows or private party sales. That's why I'm all for longer waiting periods and more thorough background checks to weed out as many illegal purchases as possible. I know there will always be criminals getting guns unlawfully, but let's limit the ones we can.

 

[poncho]

Sam Jackson said in a movie the other night, "We gave up some of our liberties for safety and in the end lost both"

Millions of debates condensed to one sentence.

 

[pronstar]

Fed law only requires licensed dealers in state to do background checks, not gun shows or private party sales.

That's why I'm all for longer waiting periods and more thorough background checks to weed out as many illegal purchases as possible.

The “gun show loophole” is a sound bite. It doesn’t exist.

If a business / gun dealer sells guns at a gun show, then it goes thru NICS for a background check.

If a private party sells a gun at a gun show, then “it depends” based on the state’s rules for a private party transfer.

How does making me wait for a gun, when I have a safe full of guns, prevent illegal purchases?

NICS is an instant background check. Additional checks are not done during the waiting period. So how does waiting prevent illegal purchases?

Guns are heavily regulated. Many of these regs are ignored or not followed. Especially in cases where NICS isn’t being fed the info it needs, e.g. when school districts don’t report criminal activity so they can receive federal grant money for “lowering crime”. Or the military isn’t feeding dishonorable discharge information, as required by law.

If existing regs aren’t followed, how is restricting even more of my rights - as a legal gun owner - going to reduce illegal gun purchases?


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[pronstar]

Please post up sources that indicate criminals get guns from gun dealers. Or even private party purchases.

What you’re going to find is that criminals get guns illegally. Through theft.
Black market purchases (of illegally gotten guns, e.g stolen guns and the like).

If criminals aren’t buying guns legally from private parties, nor legally from gun dealers, then how is restricting legal purchases doing anything to reduce the number of criminals with guns?


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[highvoltagehands]

After this post, I'm done with this rabbit hole. It's just background check to determine if you're legally allowed to own a gun, if you're legal, no problem. If you're not, this just prevented it. Criminals buy guns all the time from private parties, non licensed gun dealers at gun shows, you see stings on TV all the time. We need to close the loop holes. I hope i'm reading you wrong, but seems you wanna ditch gun control and background checks. Allow everyone including whackos, criminals, and illegal aliens coming across border, to purchase guns? Just remember: "If we don't manage the problem, someone will manage it for us."

 

[pronstar]

After this post, I'm done with this rabbit hole. It's just background check to determine if you're legally allowed to own a gun, if you're legal, no problem. If you're not, this just prevented it. Criminals buy guns all the time from private parties, non licensed gun dealers at gun shows, you see stings on TV all the time. We need to close the loop holes. I hope i'm reading you wrong, but seems you wanna ditch gun control and background checks. Allow everyone including whackos, criminals, and illegal aliens coming across border, to purchase guns? Just remember: "If we don't manage the problem, someone will manage it for us."

I've simply asked questions about your proposed solutions.
Nothing more.

No one is compelling you to answer any of them, but its hard to have a disucssion against drive-by statements that don't explain the thought process behind them, or present data that can be debated.

And I've never asserted any of the things you claim to be reading into my posts...?

No need to run off...if were gonna talk about enacting laws, then we should be able to defend our positions on why we think that's what should be done.

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[LargeOrangeFont]

I don't want lose anymore gun rights. Don't want to take any legal citizens guns either. But I don't want criminals, whackos, illegals or non citizens being able to buy a guns thru a loop hole either. Fed law only requires licensed dealers in state to do background checks, not gun shows or private party sales. That's why I'm all for longer waiting periods and more thorough background checks to weed out as many illegal purchases as possible. I know there will always be criminals getting guns unlawfully, but let's limit the ones we can.

I am for background checks for all purchases including private party. Most of the mass shootings would not have been thwarted with longer waiting periods. A couple may have been with proper background checks that actually reflected a person’s past, but the system systematically tries to absolve people of their past illegal activity. The background checks are not through because of other policies and institutional BS.

 

[highvoltagehands]

I've simply asked questions about your proposed solutions.
Nothing more.

No one is compelling you to answer any of them, but its hard to have a disucssion against drive-by statements that don't explain the thought process behind them, or present data that can be debated.

And I've never asserted any of the things you claim to be reading into my posts...?

No need to run off...if were gonna talk about enacting laws, then we should be able to defend our positions on why we think that's what should be done.

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Right on my man. Good post. Guess i just wasn't understanding your point. We're both Pro gun, just with different opinions.

 

[pronstar]

This is interesting.
PBS interviewed some ATF officials about the source of firearms used in crimes.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html

It begs the question, are we focusing our societal attention in the right place with “gun control” as currently posed?

If the problem is rogue dealers and illegal purchases - none of which would be caught by NICS / background searches, then why aren’t we focusing on the root sources?

Quotes from the research link:

"Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes," Wachtel said. Because when they want guns they want them immediately the wait is usually too long for a weapon to be stolen and find its way to a criminal.

Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf.

The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers.

Several recent reports back up Wachtel's own studies about this, and make the case that illegal activity by those licensed to sell guns, known as Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), is a huge source of crime guns and greatly surpasses the sale of guns stolen from John Q. Citizen. Like bank robbers, who are interested in banks, gun traffickers are interested in FFLs because that's where the guns are. This is why FFLs are a large source of illegal guns for traffickers, who ultimately wind up selling the guns on the street.

23,775 guns have been reported lost, missing or stolen from FFLs since September 13, 1994, when a new law took effect requiring dealers to report gun thefts within 48 hours.

Another large source of guns used in crimes are unlicensed street dealers who either get their guns through illegal transactions with licensed dealers, straw purchases, or from gun thefts. These illegal dealers turn around and sell these illegally on the street. An additional way criminals gain access to guns is family and friends, either through sales, theft or as gifts.

ATF officials say that only about 8% of the nation's 124,000 retail gun dealers sell the majority of handguns that are used in crimes. They conclude that these licensed retailers are part of a block of rogue entrepreneurs tempted by the big profits of gun trafficking. Cracking down on these dealers continues to be a priority for the ATF. What's needed, according to Wachtel, is better monitoring of the activities of legally licensed gun dealers. This means examining FFL paperwork to see where their guns are coming from, and making sure that those guns are being sold legally.





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[DLC]

Going back to cars vrs gun deaths... you can find all kinds of stats, graphs, charts and a ton of opinions

One of the biggest issues with cars dealths and the sudden decline was that gas prices were at an all time high ( 2009-2013 ) And were spiked at over $3.00 gallon ( Ca was way over $4.00 gallon ) ALL while we had the housing crises / high un employment rate - meaning people just weren’t driving very much at the time. Remember this was the 2nd greatest recession of all time....

We need to flat out protect our kids and schools, malls, hospitals - generally any public place! From looney people that wants to bring harm to the general public. Banning guns will not protect the public.

However

Flat out blaming guns isn’t going to work and all that nonsense talk is just propaganda talk to once again take away rights of the people.

Mental health laws need to be brought up to a new standard. Look at the CPS thread then apply that to mental health....
things will snow ball out of control !!!

Referring to CPS ( child protective services ) this was created to help protect kids, and now by posting a pic you get a visitor or even and investigation - things can get so out of hand, way OuT of Context ! How much good does the CPS do? vrs climbing up somebody’s ass and doing an investigation....
I use the CPS as a comparison to what mental heal laws will eventually become...

But passing a law and enforcing that law makes the pendulum of Justice swing way out of control

I know I jumped around a little in this post, but that just goes to show that not one single thing will work to fix multiple problems

I actually believe that SOME people don’t want to fix this crises but only want to take away more rights of the people.

Suicide is at an all time high, and our fighting hero’s from the greatest military in the world are having a difficult time adjusting back to home life! This is another issue that needs to be dealt with one death from a ptsd illness is one to many!