Prop question/opinion

[bocco]

OK. My cousin has a 1993 Carerra 23 Viper. It's a big heavy boat with a bone stock 330hp 454. The current prop is a 21 Mirage 3 blade and he runs 60mph wide open but he works like hell to get on plane with more that 2 people in the boat and pulling a skier is almost impossible. The prop also blows out in tight turns. He doesn't mind loosing some top end in exchange for a better holeshot and handling.

My thought is to try a five blade with the same pitch.

Thoughts and opinions?

 

[TCHB]

OK. My cousin has a 1993 Carerra 23 Viper. It's a big heavy boat with a bone stock 330hp 454. The current prop is a 21 Mirage 3 blade and he runs 60mph wide open but he works like hell to get on plane with more that 2 people in the boat and pulling a skier is almost impossible. The prop also blows out in tight turns. He doesn't mind loosing some top end in exchange for a better holeshot and handling.

My thought is to try a five blade with the same pitch.

Thoughts and opinions?

I would drop it to a 19 4 blade. What diameter is the prop now?

 

[bocco]

I would drop it to a 19 4 blade. What diameter is the prop now?

Don't know the diameter. I didn't think those props came in different diameters.

 

[HavaToon]

I would drop it to a 19 4 blade. What diameter is the prop now?

I would agree with a 19p 4 blade and also suggest going with a Rev 4 for extra lift since it's a heavy boat.

I just so happen to have a practically brand new one for sale that is factory labbed.

Revolution 4 19P factory labbed

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sh...m/forums/showthread.php?t=170082&share_type=t

 

[Runs2rch]

Exactly. Rev 4 will do the job. They work great on old school standard v bottoms.

I second the 19. Could try a factory finish and then lab if needed.

We swung factory 21 Rev4's on 350 magnums.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Another vote that the Rev 4 19 would be a great choice.

 

[fishing fool]

First off what are the rpms at wot?
I would also suggest the rev4 19

 

[bocco]

First off what are the rpms at wot?
I would also suggest the rev4 19

5000 RPMs at WOT. The Mirage works OK once on plane but it's hard to get there and sucks for any water sports.

 

[HavaToon]

5000 RPMs at WOT. The Mirage works OK once on plane but it's hard to get there and sucks for any water sports.

Assuming he has 1.5 gears in his Bravo he has a good slip number at 9.47%. Using the same number but changing to the 19p rev 4 he would see about a 5mph top end loss, but will gain huge planing and midrange.

19P Rev 4 estimate

 

[bocco]

Curious why nobody likes the High Five for this application.

 

[HavaToon]

Curious why nobody likes the High Five for this application.

They are usually run on smaller hp OB's and V6 I/O. Not common on big block applications. And I would still bet money that a Rev4 will out preform a high five on this boat.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Assuming he has 1.5 gears in his Bravo he has a good slip number at 9.47%. Using the same number but changing to the 19p rev 4 he would see about a 5mph top end loss, but will gain huge planing and midrange.
View attachment 573971
19P Rev 4 estimate View attachment 573972

I bet it will be faster than that with the Rev.. unless 5000 is the limiter with that 454.

 

[SHOCKtheMONKEY]

I run a 19p Rev 4 and it works out great for skiing, boarding, and tubing. 5150 rpm WOT, 300HP 350 Bravo 1...
Just bought a used High Five 19p yesterday, looking forward to trying it out.

 

[Ultra247]

The reason that the high 5 is an issue is that it takes more power for each blade that you add at the same pitch. In other words, it takes more power to spin a 4 blade 21 than it does a 3 blade because it has more area. Spinning a 5 blade 21 will take more power and will put more strain on the drive. With that motor and that weight of boat, he doesn't have the power to spin up a high 5 and get more acceleration with a 21.

Dropping down to a 19 will allow him to pull out of the hole better. The 4 blade will take a little more power than a 3 blade would but should still spin up just fine since it is 2" of pitch less than the 21 he is currently using.

On my boat, I run a 26 pitch 4 blade for cruising but I have a 23 pitch 5 blade that is great for skiing and tubing and carrying a full load of people.

If he is already working hard to get on plane and hits 5000 rpm with his 21, you need to reduce pitch to get pull and hole shot. Adding blades will improve lift but you need to do it at a lower pitch. You can talk about using a 19 pitch 5 blade but I would start with the 4 blade and see how the boat handles it.

 

[rrrr]

.

Just a FYI, I'm pretty sure Mercury says the maximum recommended RPM for the 330 HP 454MPI is 4,600. He should go to a 19P as some have mentioned. That will give it much better driveability.

There's no reason to run it at 5,000 RPM versus 4,600. The speed difference probably won't even be noticeable, and the higher RPM is putting a lot of stress on the valvetrain and cast pistons of the 454 MPI. If you ventilate the prop at 5,000 RPM it could be a killer.

JMHO

 

[bocco]

.

Just a FYI, I'm pretty sure Mercury says the maximum recommended RPM for the 330 HP 454MPI is 4,600. He should go to a 19P as some have mentioned. That will give it much better driveability.

There's no reason to run it at 5,000 RPM versus 4,600. The speed difference probably won't even be noticeable, and the higher RPM is putting a lot of stress on the valvetrain and cast pistons of the 454 MPI. If you ventilate the prop at 5,000 RPM it could be a killer.

JMHO

Good points.

 

[nowski]

Bocco meet Wizard 29. Wizard 29 meet Bocco. Now that you've met I think Wizard 29 has a very nice kick ass prop exactly what your looking for Bocco...

 

[Trash]

The reason that the high 5 is an issue is that it takes more power for each blade that you add at the same pitch. In other words, it takes more power to spin a 4 blade 21 than it does a 3 blade because it has more area. Spinning a 5 blade 21 will take more power and will put more strain on the drive. With that motor and that weight of boat, he doesn't have the power to spin up a high 5 and get more acceleration with a 21.

Dropping down to a 19 will allow him to pull out of the hole better. The 4 blade will take a little more power than a 3 blade would but should still spin up just fine since it is 2" of pitch less than the 21 he is currently using.

On my boat, I run a 26 pitch 4 blade for cruising but I have a 23 pitch 5 blade that is great for skiing and tubing and carrying a full load of people.

If he is already working hard to get on plane and hits 5000 rpm with his 21, you need to reduce pitch to get pull and hole shot. Adding blades will improve lift but you need to do it at a lower pitch. You can talk about using a 19 pitch 5 blade but I would start with the 4 blade and see how the boat handles it.

Regarding the High 5 in your first statement this is not true. The diameter of the High 5 is much less than the Rev 4. In addition each blade on the High 5 is much smaller than the Rev 4. The High 5 will actually pull a higher rpm and typically slip more than the Rev 4 series. I've done extensive testing, logging and blade mapping on these props.

The Rev 4 will hold the bow up much better when trimmed as well compared to a High 5.

We can only make generic statements about a 5 blade will load the boat more than a 4 blade etc. IF and ONLY IF, we are talking the same blade and blade geometry.

The other nearly often overlooked item is barrel length. The barrel length of the Rev 4 is massive compared to most other props. This aids in keeping the prop aligned with the water flow when trimmed, again enhancing bow lift.

In addition because of the much larger blade area of the Rev 4 it tends to slip much less, and for the same rpm will pull a higher mph. From my measurements and logging a 19" Rev 4 pulls the same or a little more mph at a given rpm vs a 21" Laser II. Results are similar vs a Mirage.

Conversely a High 4 19" comes out of the hole WAY better than a 19" Rev 4 or a 19" Laser II. Its smaller blade ears and smaller diameter aid the motor in getting up in the power band quickly. Downside is cruise rpm slip is relatively high. Typically 1-3 mph slower vs a same pitch Laser II.

 

[SHOCKtheMONKEY]

Good insight Trash :thumbsup

Rev 4 is 14 5/8 diameter

High Five is 13.25...

 

[SHOCKtheMONKEY]

Picture of Rev 4 & HF sxs. Kind of surprising to look at them side by side, HF is way smaller, diameter and blades....

 

[SHOCKtheMONKEY]

What is the purpose/benefit of the flared end of the barrel???

 

[Outdrive1]

What is the purpose/benefit of the flared end of the barrel???

Transom lift I believe??

 

[HavaToon]

Transom lift I believe??

Overall lift but yes more transom.

Also if you want to get real technical it's to reduce or eliminate exhaust gasses blowing back to the propeller blades causing cavitation and/or blowout.

 

[bocco]

So just to close the loop on this thread. My cousin ended up with a Revolution Q4 21 pitch. It works great compared to the Mirage. He maintained his top speed at 62mph. Planes quicker and at lower speed. He can also stay on plane at wake boarding speeds for his daughter.

 

[Trash]

Just for reference, a High 5 has about 16.3 sq. in. of area per blade. A Rev 4 has 28.5 sq. in. of area per blade.

Total blade surface area for a High 5 is about 81.5 sq in

Total blade surface area for a Rev 4 is about 114.25 sq in.

 

[fishing fool]

Just for reference, a High 5 has about 16.3 sq. in. of area per blade. A Rev 4 has 28.5 sq. in. of area per blade.

Total blade surface area for a High 5 is about 81.5 sq in

Total blade surface area for a Rev 4 is about 114.25 sq in.

So what does that mean if I am running a rev4 23pitch???

 

[guest hs]

Generally the Hi 5 is not run on a big block because there is not enough diameter in the prop. The Hi 5 works great on Alphas with a 350 cid or smaller. I think a little more info on the engine might help narrow down what RPM range it is supposed to run in. You have to know this before you even try to prop a boat!

 

[fishing fool]

496mag 4800rmp limit

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

So just to close the loop on this thread. My cousin ended up with a Revolution Q4 21 pitch. It works great compared to the Mirage. He maintained his top speed at 62mph. Planes quicker and at lower speed. He can also stay on plane at wake boarding speeds for his daughter.

I just got one of these to try myself! I like how the boat rode with the Rev 23 over my B1 24, but the Rev might be slightly too much prop so I wanted to try a Rev 21, and I hope it runs the RPM of a B1 23, which would be perfect I think.

Interested to see how it compares to my standard B1 24.

 

[NicPaus]

So what does that mean if I am running a rev4 23pitch???

It means a labbed 26 B 1 might get you 5mph on top end but lose a little on holeshot. I tried a 25 rev and could not hit rev limiter to much prop.

I use the rev23 for heavy loads and tubing.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

So what does that mean if I am running a rev4 23pitch???

It means a labbed 26 B 1 might get you 5mph on top end but lose a little on holeshot. I tried a 25 rev and could not hit rev limiter to much prop.

I use the rev23 for heavy loads and tubing.

Yea the Rev 23 feels a little too tall of a prop for my boat, but only just slightly. But planing performance and top end are still good, and close to the B1 24. I can't hit the rev limiter with the B1 24 or the Rev 23. I can hit it with the B1 22.

I am hoping the Rev 21 will be my tubing/heavy load prop instead of the B1 22.

 

[fishing fool]

It means a labbed 26 B 1 might get you 5mph on top end but lose a little on holeshot. I tried a 25 rev and could not hit rev limiter to much prop.

I use the rev23 for heavy loads and tubing.

Had a 26bravo and was great on the top but sucked out of the hole. When I had it I mostly had a boat full so got rid of it for a 23rev4. With the rev I am
On the limiter at just over 3/4 throttle. I am looking for a 25bravo.

 

[Rsqfxr]

Had a 26bravo and was great on the top but sucked out of the hole. When I had it I mostly had a boat full so got rid of it for a 23rev4. With the rev I am
On the limiter at just over 3/4 throttle. I am looking for a 25bravo.

I use a 26 bravo for trips with just me and the wife and it works fine all around then drop to a 24 with the whole family aboard and tubing

 

[Trash]

So what does that mean if I am running a rev4 23pitch???

The blade area will be virtually the same between the 21" and 23" Rev 4 prop, only the pitch (blade root angle to hub measurement) will change slightly. Blade area is useful in establishing how much power can be transmitted to the the water. It's the entire combination of pitch, blade area, sweep, rake, cup (trailing edge or tip cup), barrel length, flare, blade thickness, diameter etc. that often time have to be considered.

I've found the Rev 4 to be good for moving heavier hulls more efficiently with less pitch. Basically a Rev 4 will give you the same MPH as a typical 3 blade Mirage or Laser II would that has 2 more inches of pitch. To clarify and Rev 4 19" would pull nearly the same MPH at the same RPM as a Laser II in 21" pitch. Similar results with a Mirage 21" I hope that wasn't too confusing.

A lighter hull with narrow beam may not respond as favorably with a Rev 4 as compared to a heavier / wide beam boat.

 

[fishing fool]

The blade area will be virtually the same between the 21" and 23" Rev 4 prop, only the pitch (blade root angle to hub measurement) will change slightly. Blade area is useful in establishing how much power can be transmitted to the the water. It's the entire combination of pitch, blade area, sweep, rake, cup (trailing edge or tip cup), barrel length, flare, blade thickness, diameter etc. that often time have to be considered.

I've found the Rev 4 to be good for moving heavier hulls more efficiently with less pitch. Basically a Rev 4 will give you the same MPH as a typical 3 blade Mirage or Laser II would that has 2 more inches of pitch. To clarify and Rev 4 19" would pull nearly the same MPH at the same RPM as a Laser II in 21" pitch. Similar results with a Mirage 21" I hope that wasn't too confusing.

A lighter hull with narrow beam may not respond as favorably with a Rev 4 as compared to a heavier / wide beam boat.

There is a lot there to reply to.

Yes I understand that a rev 21 and 23 will have the same blade area just a different pitch (that's why it's a 21 not a 23).
For my boat it's the opposite from what you are saying. I have a light eagle 220 with a 496 mag. I do not have the wot rpm that most others have with a small block or HO motor. For me I have much less slip with the rev prop over the bravo. That gives me better performance thru out the mid to top throttle.

I have been looking around for a different prop other then a bravo 24. There are tons of props 21 and under or 28 and over. Not too many in the 24 range.

 

[Trash]

There is a lot there to reply to.

Yes I understand that a rev 21 and 23 will have the same blade area just a different pitch (that's why it's a 21 not a 23).
For my boat it's the opposite from what you are saying. I have a light eagle 220 with a 496 mag. I do not have the wot rpm that most others have with a small block or HO motor. For me I have much less slip with the rev prop over the bravo. That gives me better performance thru out the mid to top throttle.

I have been looking around for a different prop other then a bravo 24. There are tons of props 21 and under or 28 and over. Not too many in the 24 range.

I wasn't trying to insult your intelligence regarding the pitch element so for that I apologize. Most of the props I've tested have the same blade area when changing pitch. I have seen some variation in the 3 blade line up however.

I can't swing the size Bravo prop or Rev prop with my small block that others are doing. It all comes down to the hull. Unfortunately some set ups just don't fit in any one specific logic locker regarding props and set up.

It is my hope that I haven't steered you in the wrong direction. I'm simply trying to pass along data I've measured and tested and pass it along.

Try a Rev 4 in 25" pitch since you are on the limiter with the 23".

 

[fishing fool]

I wasn't trying to insult your intelligence regarding the pitch element so for that I apologize. Most of the props I've tested have the same blade area when changing pitch. I have seen some variation in the 3 blade line up however.

I can't swing the size Bravo prop or Rev prop with my small block that others are doing. It all comes down to the hull. Unfortunately some set ups just don't fit in any one specific logic locker regarding props and set up.

It is my hope that I haven't steered you in the wrong direction. I'm simply trying to pass along data I've measured and tested and pass it along.

No worries. That is what I love about this place "all the info others have". I have read what merc says about the props they have and still am not sure. Lol. I love the rev4 23, but would like to have a bravo25 for when it's only two of us and clean water

 

[Trash]

No worries. That is what I love about this place "all the info others have". I have read what merc says about the props they have and still am not sure. Lol. I love the rev4 23, but would like to have a bravo25 for when it's only two of us and clean water

I edited my post as you responded. Have you tried a 25" Rev 4?

 

[HavaToon]

Btw the Rev 4 now comes in even pitch sizes. Check out Mercury Racings website.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

No worries. That is what I love about this place "all the info others have". I have read what merc says about the props they have and still am not sure. Lol. I love the rev4 23, but would like to have a bravo25 for when it's only two of us and clean water

You definitely need something bigger than the 23 for sure. Based on my experience car I'm
Very interested to see how the rev4 25 compares to a B1 25.

As stated the Rev25 might be good to try. Also Hill Marine makes some good props and they are priced fairly reasonable.

 

[fishing fool]

Btw the Rev 4 now comes in even pitch sizes. Check out Mercury Racings website.

I have not seen them on Mercury but have seen them on eBay and they are something like $200 more for even numbers

 

[fishing fool]

You definitely need something bigger than the 23 for sure. Based on my experience car I'm
Very interested to see how the rev4 25 compares to a B1 25.

As stated the Rev25 might be good to try. Also Hill Marine makes some good props and they are priced fairly reasonable.

From running a 23rev and a bravo 24 they are almost the same. With that said I think the 25rev would be more like a bravo26.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

From running a 23rev and a bravo 24 they are almost the same. With that said I think the 25rev would be more like a bravo26.

That is my thought too.

What I don't get about your situation is the vast difference between the B1 26 and the Rev 23/B1 24.

You went from poor planing but ok top end to great planing and on the rev limiter before you get to full throttle. On paper that is too big of a gap in performance for that prop change.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I have not seen them on Mercury but have seen them on eBay and they are something like $200 more for even numbers

Yea they are oppressively expensive.

 

[fishing fool]

That is my thought too.

What I don't get about your situation is the vast difference between the B1 26 and the Rev 23/B1 24.

You went from poor planing but ok top end to great planing and on the rev limiter before you get to full throttle. On paper that is too big of a gap in performance for that prop change.

Yes it is a big gap. But there are (were) very few times I ran with a empty boat so the 23rev is a better all around prop for me.
Having a smaller boat the water is not the best on Havasu so running 50+ is not too fun. 3200rpm @ 40mph is a good comfortable speed.

 

[NicPaus]

From running a 23rev and a bravo 24 they are almost the same. With that said I think the 25rev would be more like a bravo26.

My 23 rev4 has a lot less slip than my 24b1. I can blow out the 24 but not the 23.

I had a brand new 26b1 and stock rev25. The rev was around 200 rpms less than stock 26b1.

I have been searching for 2 years for a nice 25. Bought at least 6 props for boat just to try. Rev23 and 26bl labbed by Hill are my go to props. If I sell the 24 might just buy a new 25. Jacos still have the best new price?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

My 23 rev4 has a lot less slip than my 24b1. I can blow out the 24 but not the 23.

I had a brand new 26b1 and stock rev25. The rev was around 200 rpms less than stock 26b1.

I have been searching for 2 years for a nice 25. Bought at least 6 props for boat just to try. Rev23 and 26bl labbed by Hill are my go to props. If I sell the 24 might just buy a new 25. Jacos still have the best new price?

There is a nice 25 on Ebay now for $375 shipped, but it is left rotation.

 

[NicPaus]

There is a nice 25 on Ebay now for $375 shipped, but it is left rotation.

Ha I bought a prop off ebay and never checked and was left hand. Might still be in one of my sheds. At one point I had 10 props I think 6 now 2 are damaged.

 

[hallett21]

Have you tried a trophy plus? I believe RD has one. Semi over hub exhaust for holeshot. Bow lifting prop.

 

[fishing fool]

My 23 rev4 has a lot less slip than my 24b1. I can blow out the 24 but not the 23.

I had a brand new 26b1 and stock rev25. The rev was around 200 rpms less than stock 26b1.

I have been searching for 2 years for a nice 25. Bought at least 6 props for boat just to try. Rev23 and 26bl labbed by Hill are my go to props. If I sell the 24 might just buy a new 25. Jacos still have the best new price?

I was thinking the rev25 would be too much. Now you have confirmed it. Yes I'm looking for a 25bravo too. Saw a lefty in Phoenix a few weeks ago. Lefty seem to be cheaper, just not too sure how the boat would be rotating the other way.