PPP $$$ Gone?

[WildHorses24]

NFIB Statement on Small Businesses Being Shut Out of Paycheck Protection Program Loans | NFIB

NFIB President Brad Close issued a statement in response to the slow and beleaguered rollout of the Paycheck Protection Program loans.

www.nfib.com

Had 2 friends being directed to SBA by WF saying they’re no longer taking apps. Finally got an email (from chase) to finish app at 2:20pm today and it’s been unavailable since.

 

[Joker]

I'm wondering what percentage of businesses are really going to use this for its intended purpose. It seems like its kind of a free money grab for those that are still working and are receiving these loans.
For those that are truly out of work, I get it but if you're out of work what do you do with your employees if you're not working? You just pay them to sit at home?

 

[HCP3]

Trump just announced (minutes ago) another $250 billion that he his trying to get through congress.

 

[TCHB]

Trump just announced (minutes ago) another $ 250 billion he his trying to get through congress.

Calling Bernie to the Rescue.

 

[stolen]

WF was capped at $10B due to previous reg violations. Other lenders are still taking apps. The applications for sole proprietors and self employed individuals opens up on Friday 4/10. Call your local bank, you'll have better luck.

 

[rrrr]

There wasn't enough money to help. It averaged out to about $15K per the qualifying 50-500 employee businesses. The proposed additional $250 billion won't even make a dent in the problem.

Ten million people have filed unemployment claims in the last two weeks.

Just 6,000,000 employees making $375 per week equals $225 billion.

 

[530RL]

I'm wondering what percentage of businesses are really going to use this for its intended purpose. It seems like its kind of a free money grab for those that are still working and are receiving these loans.
For those that are truly out of work, I get it but if you're out of work what do you do with your employees if you're not working? You just pay them to sit at home?

The prospects for fraud in this program are endless.

For example, there is no requirement to rehire employees, just the amount forgiven is based upon how much you spend on “payroll” for the 60 days subsequent to the loan.

So even if you don’t retain employees, and then you eventually just don’t reopen, the loan is unsecured with no personal guarantee and as such will simply be extinguished in the subsequent liquidation of any business assets left.

I get the intent, but what a mess.

 

[RCDave]

The prospects for fraud in this program are endless.

For example, there is no requirement to rehire employees, just the amount forgiven is based upon how much you spend on “payroll” for the 60 days subsequent to the loan.

So even if you don’t retain employees, and then you eventually just don’t reopen, the loan is unsecured with no personal guarantee and as such will simply be extinguished in the subsequent liquidation of any business assets left.

I get the intent, but what a mess.

Not entirely true. An employer has to have the same number of average employees 60 days after loan funding than the average number of employees they had during fy2019

 

[530RL]

Not entirely true. An employer has to have the same number of average employees 60 days after loan funding than the average number of employees they had during fy2019

That is a covenant subsequent to the loan being made, but not a requirement prior to funding. If the company fails to meet such covenant, it remains an unsecured loan with no personal guarantees to most likely a shuttered business resulting in no consequences.......other than to the taxpayer.

Like I said, I get the intent, but not this Implementation or execution.

 

[Joker]

Not entirely true. An employer has to have the same number of average employees 60 days after loan funding than the average number of employees they had during fy2019

So if i had my one employee 60 days after i would be good. I honestly could still be working him, charging customers and the government at the same time.

 

[RCDave]

I'm not defending the program just adding detail

 

[Joker]

I'm not defending the program just adding detail

I understand, I’m just trying to figure this out

 

[RiverDave]

This is absurd... .

RD

 

[RCDave]

Simple. Government is running the printing press on a massive scale. Handing out the money which rewards fiscal irresponsibility and penalizes fiscal responsibility. So if viable entities do not opt in, they are putting themselves in a weaker competitive position in the future.

The unintended consequences of this massive govt program will have far reaching negative consequences for a very long time to come.

And gives govt a powerful insight in just how much power they really have over our lives

 

[MrMayhem]

I'm wondering what percentage of businesses are really going to use this for its intended purpose. It seems like its kind of a free money grab for those that are still working and are receiving these loans.
For those that are truly out of work, I get it but if you're out of work what do you do with your employees if you're not working? You just pay them to sit at home?

No offense....Could not disagree more.
I have 13 employees working from home. They are producing at about 50%. I’m still paying them, could lay some off, but have chosen not to, because of the PPP. They are trying their best, I think. Now..... let’s see if I get some PPP.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[golakers]

No offense....Could not disagree more.
I have 13 employees working from home. They are producing at about 50%. I’m still paying them, could lay some off, but have chosen not to, because of the PPP. They are trying their best, I think. Now..... let’s see if I get some PPP.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What you said! I’ve had these employees for 15-20 years. Don’t want to lay anyone off!

 

[DLC]

I'm wondering what percentage of businesses are really going to use this for its intended purpose. It seems like its kind of a free money grab for those that are still working and are receiving these loans.
For those that are truly out of work, I get it but if you're out of work what do you do with your employees if you're not working? You just pay them to sit at home?

yes that is the plan, it falls on the bank to follow the money for disbursements and what accounts it goes into. If followed correctly it will be forgiven. If not you get a 1 % loan for 2 years...

this is trying to take some burden off the unemployment checks and have your employees ready to go back to work ASAP!

Some employees will look for other jobs or other companies to work for and then that could hurt business when this loosens up

 

[whiteworks]

My CPA called this morning and was telling me all about the trump welfare money and how I should apply for it. He told me one of his clients is qualified for $4.2M. I built my livelihood on my own and will maintain my shit without going on the dole, there is no free lunch. This is like Obama phones for white people

 

[530RL]

My CPA called this morning and was telling me all about the trump welfare money and how I should apply for it. He told me one of his clients is qualified for $4.2M. I built my livelihood on my own and will maintain my shit without going on the dole, there is no free lunch. This is like Obama phones for white people

I get both arguments.

One is yours which is this is just welfare or Obama phones for the rich and connected. Fair argument.

The other is that like the Trump tax cut, most of this money is just some getting back the taxes they paid in the past. And so it is no different than a tax cut in order to keep employees.

Beats me as it is all above my pay grade. But it does set a horrible precedent and is probably just the start of the flood gates of taxpayer debt that is now supported not just by liberals, but by the other side of the aisle.........

 

[jetur]

Seen a lot of things on TV about this "free money". The regulations and promises changed daily last week. This loan became available through Chase yesterday, so I read all of the docs.

Some facts about the Chase loan in the fine print. They will sign up just about anyone with a small bus. Once you have the loan you have to apply for forgiveness at a later date and there are no guarantees on when the "forgiveness* will run out. It's a 6 month deferred 24 month loan at .75% annual. Ex. At 250k the payment would be about 12k a month. Trying shitting an extra 12k a month in a struggling economy. Lol. At any point, Chase can pull the full loan amount out of any of your business accounts. Ex. Say I have a 250k loan eight months into this and receive a check from a customer for 300k. They can take their money back as soon as that check clears. Even though I would owe most of the 300k to vendors and suppliers.

Chase has been very careful to let owners know they are 100% on the hook for the loan. Im not one for handouts but did check into it and there is no guarantee of free money here. Being that small bus owners gambled on themselves to make it with initial investments, I'm sure most will gamble on this.

 

[C-2]

Seen a lot of things on TV about this "free money". The regulations and promises changed daily last week. This loan became available through Chase yesterday, so I read all of the docs.

Some facts about the Chase loan in the fine print. They will sign up just about anyone with a small bus. Once you have the loan you have to apply for forgiveness at a later date and there are no guarantees on when the "forgiveness* will run out. It's a 6 month deferred 24 month loan at .75% annual. Ex. At 250k the payment would be about 12k a month. Trying shitting an extra 12k a month in a struggling economy. Lol. At any point, Chase can pull the full loan amount out of any of your business accounts. Ex. Say I have a 250k loan eight months into this and receive a check from a customer for 300k. They can take their money back as soon as that check clears. Even though I would owe most of the 300k to vendors and suppliers.

Chase has been very careful to let owners know they are 100% on the hook for the loan. Im not one for handouts but did check into it and there is no guarantee of free money here. Being that small bus owners gambled on themselves to make it with initial investments, I'm sure most will gamble on this.

Hey wait, aren't those guys called "factors?" lol

Damn, I've gotta say that I don't miss being a small biz owner, or self-employed, at all. I feel for you guys.

But, nobody will escape this mess unscathed, and today my wifey was told she will be laid off on Friday if her small biz company does not get the loan. First time she will ever file for unemployment.

 

[jetur]

Hey wait, aren't those guys called "factors?" lol

Damn, I've gotta say that I don't miss being a small biz owner, or self-employed, at all. I feel for you guys.

But, nobody will escape this mess unscathed, and today my wifey was told she will be laid off on Friday if her small biz company does not get the loan. First time she will ever file for unemployment.

It sucks owning a biz right now but, it's usually pretty good. We haven't laid anyone off but I did freeze all new hires. I hope they get that loan for your wife.

 

[DLC]

There are loan requirements you have to have an existing relationship and payroll accounts other wise you go to the end of the line. The bank isn’t making any money except to help their existing clients.

SBA is an exclusive loan program if you don’t use the funds for what they are designed for or lie on application, you could spend time in the iron bar hotel

 

[whiteworks]

I get both arguments.

One is yours which is this is just welfare or Obama phones for the rich and connected. Fair argument.

The other is that like the Trump tax cut, most of this money is just some getting back the taxes they paid in the past. And so it is no different than a tax cut in order to keep employees.

Beats me as it is all above my pay grade. But it does set a horrible precedent and is probably just the start of the flood gates of taxpayer debt that is now supported not just by liberals, but by the other side of the aisle.........

I see this as some real Bernie Sanders socialism type shit, nothing more than buying votes for the upcoming election. Real capitalism is ruthless bloodsport, survival of the fittest, nothing good will come from this in the long run, let them fail fast an on there own merits.

 

[jetur]

There are loan requirements you have to have an existing relationship and payroll accounts other wise you go to the end of the line. The bank isn’t making any money except to help their existing clients.

SBA is an exclusive loan program if you don’t use the funds for what they are designed for or lie on application, you could spend time in the iron bar hotel

There are loan requirements you have to have an existing relationship and payroll accounts other wise you go to the end of the line. The bank isn’t making any money except to help their existing clients.

SBA is an exclusive loan program if you don’t use the funds for what they are designed for or lie on application, you could spend time in the iron bar hotel

Yes I agree, you do have to have the established relationship. The only way I could access the loan docs to read them, was through my online business portal. So, there's that and you had to be in business Feb 2020.

I think the gov is trying to make it fairly easily accessible by giving non stringent requirements. It's good for those that actually need it quick and bad for those taking advantage.

 

[Joker]

There are loan requirements you have to have an existing relationship and payroll accounts other wise you go to the end of the line. The bank isn’t making any money except to help their existing clients.

SBA is an exclusive loan program if you don’t use the funds for what they are designed for or lie on application, you could spend time in the iron bar hotel

One could only hope everyone getting these loans gets audited to ensure they’re not double dipping but it will never happen. If the honest business owner needs it to survive, this is great.

 

[702sandman]

I received the email from B of A today to upload my needed documents for this loan. I read everything 3 times or more and to me is seems like they really want us to pay our employees even if they are sitting at home so that way they don’t leave and go somewhere else. Trump wants this economy to turn right back on as soon as this ends, I don’t think that it will go that way but this money will definitely help keep my guys right where they are. If I just pay them their normal 40 hours like last year 80% of the loan is forgiven 100% then the other 20% can get used up for rent , utilities etc. what ever you don’t use I’d say pay right back so you don’t have any loan. Just my 02.

 

[DLC]

The regulation is going to be put back on the Banks to monitor the payroll accounts that took the loans. I’m sure some will fall thru the cracks.

but I think this is better than massive unemployment checks

 

[BONER]

There won't be any long term consequences from this money distribution. DT is going to hand China a $4T Bill, and say fuck you pay me.

 

[troostr]

I'll make my payroll regardless, I have to. I can't turn my cows off and say "well F-it, we can start milking 'em again when we can profit". But, as a loan at .75% instead of going deeper on my operating line at 4.5%, I'll take that every day!
I had to cut down to the MOST efficient number of employees years ago in '09 when milk prices went to shit. Nothing has changed since then except today the size of my operation is on the brink of being considered "inefficient". I milk just under 3000 cows for reference, and grow 100% of my own forage feeds. The 5000 cow plus operations are the new leanest meanest "dairy business" models.
This whole deal for me presents a lot of questions about the future. I think it's WAY early in life to ask my kids if dairying is what they want to do in life. But at the same time I'm not far off from either selling my cows and semi retire and just farm (putting about 10m in equity into cash), OR build a new facility and expand to keep up with new technologies and efficiencies (spending about 10m).
I'm sure there will be those that would ask why I would keep milking cows when "there's milk getting dumped" - save it. That's a whole different discussion.

 

[lakemadness]

I'll make my payroll regardless, I have to. I can't turn my cows off and say "well F-it, we can start milking 'em again when we can profit". But, as a loan at .75% instead of going deeper on my operating line at 4.5%, I'll take that every day!
I had to cut down to the MOST efficient number of employees years ago in '09 when milk prices went to shit. Nothing has changed since then except today the size of my operation is on the brink of being considered "inefficient". I milk just under 3000 cows for reference, and grow 100% of my own forage feeds. The 5000 cow plus operations are the new leanest meanest "dairy business" models.
This whole deal for me presents a lot of questions about the future. I think it's WAY early in life to ask my kids if dairying is what they want to do in life. But at the same time I'm not far off from either selling my cows and semi retire and just farm (putting about 10m in equity into cash), OR build a new facility and expand to keep up with new technologies and efficiencies (spending about 10m).
I'm sure there will be those that would ask why I would keep milking cows when "there's milk getting dumped" - save it. That's a whole different discussion.

How government subsidies on milk nowadays?

 

[whiteworks]

I'll make my payroll regardless, I have to. I can't turn my cows off and say "well F-it, we can start milking 'em again when we can profit". But, as a loan at .75% instead of going deeper on my operating line at 4.5%, I'll take that every day!
I had to cut down to the MOST efficient number of employees years ago in '09 when milk prices went to shit. Nothing has changed since then except today the size of my operation is on the brink of being considered "inefficient". I milk just under 3000 cows for reference, and grow 100% of my own forage feeds. The 5000 cow plus operations are the new leanest meanest "dairy business" models.
This whole deal for me presents a lot of questions about the future. I think it's WAY early in life to ask my kids if dairying is what they want to do in life. But at the same time I'm not far off from either selling my cows and semi retire and just farm (putting about 10m in equity into cash), OR build a new facility and expand to keep up with new technologies and efficiencies (spending about 10m).
I'm sure there will be those that would ask why I would keep milking cows when "there's milk getting dumped" - save it. That's a whole different discussion.

There is a certain quality in an ag based life and community that stands the test of time. Gen 3 and Gen 4 want to take the money and run, have a cabana boy run drinks with little umbrellas out to them as they sit poolside in the islands and say LAM on Instagram like that means something. IMO you would be doing a major disservice to your grandchildren and beyond by not preserving your way of life for them by every means possible. Money comes and goes, families get larger and holdings dilute over time, don’t lose site of the value of the foundation in place and thank you for staying the course.

 

[D19]

It's not the government's (taxpayers) job to loan money to anyone.

I would mow lawns, dig ditches and clean peoples houses before I ask my fellow taxpayers to give me a hand out.

This country's mentality about borrowing money is so F'd. Debt is not good.

 

[C-2]

I would mow lawns, dig ditches and clean peoples houses before I ask my fellow taxpayers to give me a hand out.

Sounds like a solid plan to cover 30K in monthly payroll expenses.

Good on you.

 

[D19]

Sounds like a solid plan to cover 30K in monthly payroll expenses.

Good on you.

No the solid plan has been to save my money for times like these so I don't have to become dependent on the taxpayer.

Good luck with your loan application.

 

[whiteworks]

Sounds like a solid plan to cover 30K in monthly payroll expenses.

Good on you.

Just a thought, but if someone has $30k+ a month in payroll it’s safe to assume they have had ample possibilities to stack their net worth and have appropriate cash reserves in place to maintain the entity they have created and are reliant on. This is the time when the house of cards fall, and the places built on solid foundations sustain.

 

[McKay]

It's not the government's (taxpayers) job to loan money to anyone.

I would mow lawns, dig ditches and clean peoples houses before I ask my fellow taxpayers to give me a hand out.

This country's mentality about borrowing money is so F'd. Debt is not good.

I would normally absolutely agree with you, however this is unlike any other time. The "Government" has closed your business, was not the business fault that his business closed, was not for any action or non action of the business. If they want to shut down the economy then they need to pay for the closure.

 

[C-2]

That's right guys, I forgot this is RDP. Silly me.

Go down in flames then, throw everything you have into a sinkking ship. I know this, at the end of the day and when you are out of money, not one employee will say "hey, thanks for trying."

I have no dog in this fight, I was only poking Captain Obvious.

 

[D19]

I would normally absolutely agree with you, however this is unlike any other time. The "Government" has closed your business, was not the business fault that his business closed, was not for any action or non action of the business. If they want to shut down the economy then they need to pay for the closure.

They as in the government has no money of its own. We the taxpayers have to bail everyone out. How is that fair to the individuals who were responsible and prepared?

Now the money I have saved is technically worth less after the inflation created by them spending (printing) trillions of dollars. That's not cool.

 

[McKay]

They as in the government has no money of its own. We the taxpayers have to bail everyone out. How is that fair to the individuals who were responsible and prepared?

Now the money I have saved is technically worth less after the inflation created by them spending (printing) trillions of dollars. That's not cool.

I totally agree, I am one of the prepared and even in my Business, debt free completely personally and in business. I could maintain my payroll for over 2 years if i needed to for my 55 employee's. But like you said, how would that be fair to me not to take the help? It took my 17 years to get that cash built up in my business paying high income taxes on it all the way.

And yes I completely agree with you on the spending. It is out of control.

 

[whiteworks]

That's right guys, I forgot this is RDP. Silly me.

Go down in flames then, throw everything you have into a sinkking ship. I know this, at the end of the day and when you are out of money, not one employee will say "hey, thanks for trying."

I have no dog in this fight, I was only poking Captain Obvious.

Let them fail, and let them fail fast.

They as in the government has no money of its own. We the taxpayers have to bail everyone out. How is that fair to the individuals who were responsible and prepared?

Now the money I have saved is technically worth less after the inflation created by them spending (printing) trillions of dollars. That's not cool.

Life’s not fair, shit happens. might want to get that mower blade sharpened up

 

[Xtrmwakeboarder]

Received an email from BOW to upload my support today. Progress!

 

[Joker]

The simple answer is lay everyone off once your business shuts down. When it starts back up, rehire them. Why are we now doing the governments job?
im not taking out a loan And affecting my company’s credit to cover my employees wages while they’re off for 2 months. Does anyone think your employees would do this for you?

 

[McKay]

The simple answer is lay everyone off once your business shuts down. When it starts back up, rehire them. Why are we now doing the governments job?
im not taking out a loan And affecting my company’s credit to cover my employees wages while they’re off for 2 months. Does anyone think your employees would do this for you?

Yes I personally do, my employees are our most important assets. Most are very talented and we have 17 over 10 years with us and many of those just hitting 15 years. Very good chance if we were to layoff you would not get all of them back.

 

[RCDave]

There won't be any long term consequences from this money distribution. DT is going to hand China a $4T Bill, and say fuck you pay me.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

[McKay]

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Like the same way Mexico is paying for the wall???

 

[Joker]

Yes I personally do, my employees are our most important assets. Most are very talented and we have 17 over 10 years with us and many of those just hitting 15 years. Very good chance if we were to layoff you would not get all of them back.

I’ll assume with them being so important they have a retirement plan with your company. They’ll be back

 

[McKay]

I’ll assume with them being so important they have a retirement plan with your company. They’ll be back

yes they do, but that can go with them anywhere they wish to move it.

 

[TCHB]

I’ll assume with them being so important they have a retirement plan with your company. They’ll be back

My old boss would tell me the smart, sharp guys are the ones he worried about. They are always getting job offers.

 

[McKay]

My old boss would tell me the smart, sharp guys are the ones he worried about. They are always getting job offers.

Exactly.