Post EMP Vehicle | What do you pick to Bug Out?

[monkeyswrench]

Are you the same dude that will say Mighty Mouse can't beat up Superman because they both aren't real? You must be really fun at parties...LOL

They're not?

 

[Sportin' Wood]

We need a new section for these "world is ending thread types".... names? Preppers and ?

Tinfoil Tabernacle? Preppers and Prophets? End Days & Daydreams?

 

[Sportin' Wood]

https://www.facebook.com/marketplac...wse_serp:d3369a4b-8f0d-4b3b-a699-a87a0e816c9c

Here is one worth a look. One-ton drive train and a 12-valve Cummins.

 

[Badchoices03]

Tinfoil Tabernacle? Preppers and Prophets? End Days & Daydreams?

Hat Holders and Ammo Loaders?

 

[H20 Toie]

The biggest issue i see is not the cars but the fact that electric power will be down. that means warm beer,
Hopefully i'm gone in the first blast so i don't have to resort to that.

 

[Flyinbowtie]

Many years ago the .fedgov had a whole lot of mines in the west (and elsewhere, no doubt) surveyed to determine their suitability to house humans during a nuke situation. As has been stated, the trick is getting there before "they" get here.

Having a motor vehicle that would work in a post EMP attack would require having spares for any electrical device on said vehicle that is necessary for it to run stored in a Faraday Cage prior to the attack. Lets pick the Ford IDI...I would want a starter, a set of hot battery's, a starter relay, and a fuel cut off solenoid. You IDI guys would know of any more.
A gas engine...you'd want something with a coil and points ignition. A Bug would be good...prolly a generator and a starter, etc. No HEI stuff, no ecms whatsoever. Think 1950s to early 70s tech.
Those folks out in the country with an old Ford 9n and a bunch of spares ratholed for it might get lucky.
It isn't difficulty to imagine what a Pulse attack would do, and how quickly it would do it.
The truth is when it comes to an event like this if you are stuck in a big urban area you are in trouble.
Even all then cool ideas of getting out are going to have you competing with 1000's of other,"otta the box thinkers" who came up with the same plan.
Getting out before it goes completely to hell is going to be the ultimate trick.
The TV show "The last Ship" was based on a book by the same name. It is much better than the show, and a good read.
Spoiler alert..

The ultimate survivors were submariners.

 

[Racey]

Many years ago the .fedgov had a whole lot of mines in the west (and elsewhere, no doubt) surveyed to determine their suitability to house humans during a nuke situation. As has been stated, the trick is getting there before "they" get here.

Having a motor vehicle that would work in a post EMP attack would require having spares for any electrical device on said vehicle that is necessary for it to run stored in a Faraday Cage prior to the attack. Lets pick the Ford IDI...I would want a starter, a set of hot battery's, a starter relay, and a fuel cut off solenoid. You IDI guys would know of any more.
A gas engine...you'd want something with a coil and points ignition. A Bug would be good...prolly a generator and a starter, etc. No HEI stuff, no ecms whatsoever. Think 1950s to early 70s tech.
Those folks out in the country with an old Ford 9n and a bunch of spares ratholed for it might get lucky.
It isn't difficulty to imagine what a Pulse attack would do, and how quickly it would do it.
The truth is when it comes to an event like this if you are stuck in a big urban area you are in trouble.
Even all then cool ideas of getting out are going to have you competing with 1000's of other,"otta the box thinkers" who came up with the same plan.
Getting out before it goes completely to hell is going to be the ultimate trick.
The TV show "The last Ship" was based on a book by the same name. It is much better than the show, and a good read.
Spoiler alert..

The ultimate survivors were submariners.

The EMP is not strong enough to destroy high current devices like a starter, or even a solenoid, under most conditions they can sustain the nanosecond voltage spike. It will destroy sensitive electronics that have very low current and low voltage circuitry, transistor electronics.. Voltage regulating circuitry in your alternator could be affected.

Electrical transmssion lines could be problematic as they are essentially exposed antennas, meaning they can absorb a lot of the burst. EMP is essentially a giant pulse of radio wave that is EXTREMELY short in duration.

The phone companies still maintain old school relay communication loops that are totally non electronic, they are solenoid mechanical contact based, they are extremely hardened to EMP from what i understand. The drawback is the data throughput is EXTREMELY slow, like in the neighborhood of morse code compared to modern data speed.

 

[mjc]

Can you post pictures...love those!

This is my wifes car, soon to get a surburban driveline, trans and transfer case.

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

May be the same out by you, but here they are pricey for a decent one. There's a 2wd, f250 extended cab with a dually kit. Clean for an 86, was a horse hauler, 7500obo!

I missed an 87 4x4 with a utility bed, banks turbo and a GV...it was only 3500

Pics Pics Pics

 

[monkeyswrench]

1987 ford f-250 diesel for sale by owner - Cornville, AZ - craigslist

Clean Title. Factory rebuild engine at 92,000 miles. 5 speed manual transmission. New AC pump and dryer and hoses and recharged AC glows cold. New electric window motors. Runs good, four wheel drive...

flagstaff.craigslist.org

1996 ford f250 diesel for sale by owner - Las Vegas, NV - craigslist

86 Ford f 250 6.9 Turbo Diesel 4 Speed Manuel Drives very very strong Lot of new parts , new cluster , truck has 180k miles Salvage title Attn scammers Don’t bother texting Landline ! Price firm !

lasvegas.craigslist.org

1984 ford f250 diesel for sale by owner - Tucson, AZ - craigslist

Great running truck! 6.9 V-8 engine 6700 miles on rebuilt engine at Holmes Tuttle Ford. Automatic transmission new 1990. AC- Works great. Radio. Duel gas tanks. Newly upholstered bench seat. Very...

tucson.craigslist.org

Here's a couple I found looking for that dually one...must have sold?!
The utility bed would have been perfect for me, but I second guessed myself on what cost/income I could use it for at the time.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

Many years ago the .fedgov had a whole lot of mines in the west (and elsewhere, no doubt) surveyed to determine their suitability to house humans during a nuke situation. As has been stated, the trick is getting there before "they" get here.

Having a motor vehicle that would work in a post EMP attack would require having spares for any electrical device on said vehicle that is necessary for it to run stored in a Faraday Cage prior to the attack. Lets pick the Ford IDI...I would want a starter, a set of hot battery's, a starter relay, and a fuel cut off solenoid. You IDI guys would know of any more.
A gas engine...you'd want something with a coil and points ignition. A Bug would be good...prolly a generator and a starter, etc. No HEI stuff, no ecms whatsoever. Think 1950s to early 70s tech.
Those folks out in the country with an old Ford 9n and a bunch of spares ratholed for it might get lucky.
It isn't difficulty to imagine what a Pulse attack would do, and how quickly it would do it.
The truth is when it comes to an event like this if you are stuck in a big urban area you are in trouble.
Even all then cool ideas of getting out are going to have you competing with 1000's of other,"otta the box thinkers" who came up with the same plan.
Getting out before it goes completely to hell is going to be the ultimate trick.
The TV show "The last Ship" was based on a book by the same name. It is much better than the show, and a good read.
Spoiler alert..

The ultimate survivors were submariners.

I have no way of knowing, but I was thinking with a Baja Bug that. a coil, condenser, and points in an ammo can converted to a Faraday cage would be a good setup. I keep meaning to test the ammo can concept with my cell phone to see if it can receive a call in the can. Most of the extra parts required are stuff the old air-cooled guys commonly carry anyway. The Ford 9N comment is interesting; they have a bunch of those up in Montana for sale (cheap), and might be worth having one around if you can get fuel. Sure, would help with food production.

I contend a Mule (4-legged kind) is my ultimate bug-out transportation, but keeping one handy is another story.

It is a fairly defined duty I need to hypothetically solve. travel as far as possible the 1167 miles back home to Montana in the dead of winter. Assume terrible road conditions and no resources. The Baja Bug might fail this test. I have to cross the Snake River in the best case scenario, likely two other major crossings dependent on route, and hold on to any items from bandits. 1-ton drive train, diesel-powered winch, good tires, lockers, easy to fix, decent fuel mileage and cargo.

A while back, I saw what seemed a perfect vehicle on FB <Marketplace in SoCa. A 1ton 4-door Chevy 4x4 with a Cummins swap and a pile of good parts.

Extra points if you could stand to daily drive the thing.

After I solve this puzzle, I get to pull out the maps and explore routes. I really should get a better hobby.

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

1987 ford f-250 diesel for sale by owner - Cornville, AZ - craigslist

Clean Title. Factory rebuild engine at 92,000 miles. 5 speed manual transmission. New AC pump and dryer and hoses and recharged AC glows cold. New electric window motors. Runs good, four wheel drive...

flagstaff.craigslist.org

1996 ford f250 diesel for sale by owner - Las Vegas, NV - craigslist

86 Ford f 250 6.9 Turbo Diesel 4 Speed Manuel Drives very very strong Lot of new parts , new cluster , truck has 180k miles Salvage title Attn scammers Don’t bother texting Landline ! Price firm !

lasvegas.craigslist.org

1984 ford f250 diesel for sale by owner - Tucson, AZ - craigslist

Great running truck! 6.9 V-8 engine 6700 miles on rebuilt engine at Holmes Tuttle Ford. Automatic transmission new 1990. AC- Works great. Radio. Duel gas tanks. Newly upholstered bench seat. Very...

tucson.craigslist.org

Here's a couple I found looking for that dually one...must have sold?!
The utility bed would have been perfect for me, but I second guessed myself on what cost/income I could use it for at the time.

Thanks .... Its nice to see such raising pricing on these... warms my heart.... I need to know where to get some seat covers just like that red interior has. They look snug!

 

[TonyFanelli]

I have no way of knowing, but I was thinking with a Baja Bug that. a coil, condenser, and points in an ammo can converted to a Faraday cage would be a good setup. I keep meaning to test the ammo can concept with my cell phone to see if it can receive a call in the can. Most of the extra parts required are stuff the old air-cooled guys commonly carry anyway. The Ford 9N comment is interesting; they have a bunch of those up in Montana for sale (cheap), and might be worth having one around if you can get fuel. Sure, would help with food production.

I contend a Mule (4-legged kind) is my ultimate bug-out transportation, but keeping one handy is another story.

It is a fairly defined duty I need to hypothetically solve. travel as far as possible the 1167 miles back home to Montana in the dead of winter. Assume terrible road conditions and no resources. The Baja Bug might fail this test. I have to cross the Snake River in the best case scenario, likely two other major crossings dependent on route, and hold on to any items from bandits. 1-ton drive train, diesel-powered winch, good tires, lockers, easy to fix, decent fuel mileage and cargo.

A while back, I saw what seemed a perfect vehicle on FB <Marketplace in SoCa. A 1ton 4-door Chevy 4x4 with a Cummins swap and a pile of good parts.

Extra points if you could stand to daily drive the thing.

After I solve this puzzle, I get to pull out the maps and explore routes. I really should get a better hobby.

What part of Montana? We got some property up in Eureka

 

[monkeyswrench]

Thanks .... Its nice to see such raising pricing on these... warms my heart.... I need to know where to get some seat covers just like that red interior has. They look snug!

Walmart actually has them, but they don't last very long...less than a year on a daily, and a bitch to keep snug.

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

Walmart actually has them, but they don't last very long...less than a year on a daily, and a bitch to keep snug.

Yeah I was worried about that remaining in place. I've got a Mexican rug in place now that kinda works till I get around to an upholstery shop to simply do the bench.

 

[EmpirE231]

Sounds like I already have my bug out vehicle...

Lightweight W/ a VW motor.... only downside is it's loud AF! Upside is I would be rolling in style

 

[COCA COLA COWBOY]

I vote a 12 valve cummins with a 6 speed and a spare clutch. 100 gallon tank in the bed, air tank with dual Viair compressors, big bumpers, motorcycle rack on the back with a dual sport, gun safe in the bed, two extra tires, etc.

 

[monkeyswrench]

I think the early Humvee's had a 400 trans...that would be pretty stout. I have never owned one, but I'd think it would check a lot of boxes. The accessory turret would be handy.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

In truth, you'll use the meat and bone bags attached to the end of your legs. Either that or you need to have the foresight to "bug out" a few weeks before SHTF.

I mean, traffic hardly moves on a good day in most cities. Now have all of the roads clogged with people trying to do the same thing and all of their cars are smoked after an EMP. Smaller towns are better but you probably aren't going to go anywhere if that is where you live anyways.

Maybe prep by having a couple of motorcycles and fuel stashed 10-20 miles outside of town. A good days walk, then you are mobile to get wherever you are going. Figure a couple of days before society turns into Lord of the Flies, so get moving!

 

[Ducksquasher]

View attachment 1290284
This is my wifes car, soon to get a surburban driveline, trans and transfer case.

That is sweet!

 

[jetboatperformance]

I would use a shopping cart since they are available everywhere

 

[530RL]

In truth, you'll use the meat and bone bags attached to the end of your legs. Either that or you need to have the foresight to "bug out" a few weeks before SHTF.

I mean, traffic hardly moves on a good day in most cities. Now have all of the roads clogged with people trying to do the same thing and all of their cars are smoked after an EMP. Smaller towns are better but you probably aren't going to go anywhere if that is where you live anyways.

Maybe prep by having a couple of motorcycles and fuel stashed 10-20 miles outside of town. A good days walk, then you are mobile to get wherever you are going. Figure a couple of days before society turns into Lord of the Flies, so get moving!

Other than avionics, this is about as analog as it gets. Burns diesel no problem and can even burn unleaded for an extended period. Mechanical fuel pump, fuel control and governor. And if SHTF, you will not need your GPS or radios.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

Other than avionics, this is about as analog as it gets. Burns diesel no problem and can even burn unleaded for an extended period. Mechanical fuel pump, fuel control and governor. And if SHTF, you will not need your GPS or radios.

View attachment 1290329

You win. Mic drop.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

What part of Montana? We got some property up in Eureka

Flathead Lake.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

In truth, you'll use the meat and bone bags attached to the end of your legs. Either that or you need to have the foresight to "bug out" a few weeks before SHTF.

I mean, traffic hardly moves on a good day in most cities. Now have all of the roads clogged with people trying to do the same thing and all of their cars are smoked after an EMP. Smaller towns are better but you probably aren't going to go anywhere if that is where you live anyways.

Maybe prep by having a couple of motorcycles and fuel stashed 10-20 miles outside of town. A good days walk, then you are mobile to get wherever you are going. Figure a couple of days before society turns into Lord of the Flies, so get moving!

Depends on your starting location. The Backroad Discovery routes are a good resource for travel across most western states. I'm looking for a paper map of the railroad routes as well. I'm GUESSING that any bridges would be secured or destroyed by locals trying to maintain their security in the small towns in Rural America. I'm wondering if I could use rail crossings to circumvent the risk of human interaction. I'm also sure at some point, even the best-laid plans will end with walking; it is just a question of how many of those 1100 miles we need to walk. If you could jump on the rails, you could possibly make some miles without interruption. However, I think the ride will suck.

We gotta avoid Las Vegas and Twin Falls. Need to locate a way across the Snake River. Nevada has lots of ways to get across with no people, but you'll need fuel.

The scary thing is when I travel for work. I always bring an appropriate pair of shoes and smart wool socks.

 

[traquer]

I like the motorcycle and helicopter ideas the best.

BTW are there any public government studies on EMP and various electronics? I'm sure some of it is still top secret. But I heard that the longer the wires are in something the more of an antenna it is for the EMP. For something like circuit boards, I think they can be a lot closer to the EMP source and still be ok. But they'd need to be unplugged from the wall as powerlines are the biggest antennas and will fry whatever you have plugged in.

 

[was thatguy]

Other than avionics, this is about as analog as it gets. Burns diesel no problem and can even burn unleaded for an extended period. Mechanical fuel pump, fuel control and governor. And if SHTF, you will not need your GPS or radios.

View attachment 1290329

 

[DarkHorseRacing]

Depends on your starting location. The Backroad Discovery routes are a good resource for travel across most western states. I'm looking for a paper map of the railroad routes as well. I'm GUESSING that any bridges would be secured or destroyed by locals trying to maintain their security in the small towns in Rural America. I'm wondering if I could use rail crossings to circumvent the risk of human interaction. I'm also sure at some point, even the best-laid plans will end with walking; it is just a question of how many of those 1100 miles we need to walk. If you could jump on the rails, you could possibly make some miles without interruption. However, I think the ride will suck.

We gotta avoid Las Vegas and Twin Falls. Need to locate a way across the Snake River. Nevada has lots of ways to get across with no people, but you'll need fuel.

The scary thing is when I travel for work. I always bring an appropriate pair of shoes and smart wool socks.

If you think railroad tracks are in your future, add a set of deployable rail wheels like the rail workers use on their vehicles to your Mad Max build.

Other than a stuck train or two the rails should be relatively open, and free of desperate people and you can probably go quite a distance, even if you have to return to road wheels occasionally to get around a stationary train.

 

[Xring01]

The EMP is not strong enough to destroy high current devices like a starter, or even a solenoid, under most conditions they can sustain the nanosecond voltage spike. It will destroy sensitive electronics that have very low current and low voltage circuitry, transistor electronics.. Voltage regulating circuitry in your alternator could be affected.

Electrical transmssion lines could be problematic as they are essentially exposed antennas, meaning they can absorb a lot of the burst. EMP is essentially a giant pulse of radio wave that is EXTREMELY short in duration.

The phone companies still maintain old school relay communication loops that are totally non electronic, they are solenoid mechanical contact based, they are extremely hardened to EMP from what i understand. The drawback is the data throughput is EXTREMELY slow, like in the neighborhood of morse code compared to modern data speed.

Hold on cowboy!
Solar flairs are low level emp..

Solar flairs take out large power transformer (high current equipment) more frequently than you think..

Do some research and think about what you just posted.

 

[monkeyswrench]

In a lower level primate's mind, like say, a monkey...it seems like anything with windings would be very susceptible to emr/emf.
I really don't want to find out. I see it going from Mayberry to "Book of Eli" real fast.

 

[ChiliPepperGarage]

If you don't already live in your bug out location you are going to be F'ed. No bug out vehicle is going to help you. If you live in a big city or anywhere near one you have zero chances of escaping to rural area.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

If you don't already live in your bug out location you are going to be F'ed. No bug out vehicle is going to help you. If you live in a big city or anywhere near one you have zero chances of escaping to rural area.

Seems a pretty broad statement with a defined outcome. Since this is all hypothetical rubbish anyway, do tell why there is a zero percent success rate in every major city in the US? It seems the geography, available water, timing, route options, speed of which reaction is executed, some level of training, and even luck could change the success rate outcome.

All that said, the more paranoid I become, the less I want to travel to big cities.

If you live in Reno, Nevada, I would say your success rate climbs significantly. I use that example because I used to live there and had a route plan to get to the Inlaws in Northern Idaho. You could be out of that city in less than 10 minutes, even if the cars all just stopped dead on the roads.

 

[monkeyswrench]

I grew up 40 miles east of LA. I spent a large portion of my life working in LA. I am, or was at least, fairly "scrappy". To make it out of LA, on foot, the roughly 30 miles home, would be a gauntlet.

That would just be to get home, to try and leave, or maintain security for family. One of the reasons I hate traveling into cities, and ended up where I did.

 

[77charger]

If you need an emp proof vehicle you’ll probably be dead before you use it. Once nukes go off your done regardless.

And if shtf in cities you ain’t getting out unlesss you own a helo or aircraft. Now I’m thinking a motorized paraglider might be the ticket.

 

[Racey]

Hold on cowboy!
Solar flairs are low level emp..

Solar flairs take out large power transformer (high current equipment) more frequently than you think..

Do some research and think about what you just posted.

Like i said, electrical transmission lines could be problematic as they are essentially giant antennas. They can absorb a lot of the burst (not dissapate it)

 

[DrunkenSailor]

 

[Yoshiro]

Someone mentioned a metal building. Would a metal pole building offer any protection?

 

[angiebaby]

If you need an emp proof vehicle you’ll probably be dead before you use it. Once nukes go off your done regardless.

And if shtf in cities you ain’t getting out unlesss you own a helo or aircraft. Now I’m thinking a motorized paraglider might be the ticket.

An EMP is detonated above the atmosphere. It is not the same as a traditional nuke. You would not see a blast, and there would not be nuclear fallout.

 

[Jonas Grumby]

E-bike…hopefully I can remember how to peddle when the SHTF……

You would be lugging around a battery and mother that wouldn’t work

 

[HNL2LHC]

You would be lugging around a battery and mother that wouldn’t work

I do that on my daily walk with my brain. LOL

 

[Sportin' Wood]

If you need an emp proof vehicle you’ll probably be dead before you use it. Once nukes go off your done regardless.

And if shtf in cities you ain’t getting out unlesss you own a helo or aircraft. Now I’m thinking a motorized paraglider might be the ticket.

EMP and Nuclear strikes are two different scenarios with vastly different outcomes.

In my mind, an EMP is the perfect weapon. You essentially lay siege to a country without the loss of your army and preserve the natural resources. We could lose 90% of our people with a single shot. The invading army could come in and mop up after 18 months or less. We would be so busy trying to survive that our ability to make war would be marginalized. Our natural resources would be preserved, and the transfer of wealth and power would be concise.

If the nuke was fired from a cargo ship, it is likely we would not know who to fire back on within the time it takes to deliver the payload. A nuclear strike, in my eyes, is easier to manage than an EMP.

When people say that global warming is the biggest threat to humanity, I laugh. Global warming is inconsequential compared to nuclear weapons, the vulnerability of the grid, and the development of weapons by rouge nations.

 

[TeamGreene]

EMP and Nuclear strikes are two different scenarios with vastly different outcomes.

In my mind, an EMP is the perfect weapon. You essentially lay siege to a country without the loss of your army and preserve the natural resources. We could lose 90% of our people with a single shot. The invading army could come in and mop up after 18 months or less. We would be so busy trying to survive that our ability to make war would be marginalized. Our natural resources would be preserved, and the transfer of wealth and power would be concise.

If the nuke was fired from a cargo ship, it is likely we would not know who to fire back on within the time it takes to deliver the payload. A nuclear strike, in my eyes, is easier to manage than an EMP.

When people say that global warming is the biggest threat to humanity, I laugh. Global warming is inconsequential compared to nuclear weapons, the vulnerability of the grid, and the development of weapons by rouge nations.

Agreed only idiots say this, unfortunately they are for the most part elected government officials in congress and the White House. Which isn't saying much for the people who vote for them. Interesting topic.

 

[monkeyswrench]

When people say that global warming is the biggest threat to humanity, I laugh. Global warming is inconsequential compared to nuclear weapons, the vulnerability of the grid, and the development of weapons by rouge nations.

The biggest threat to humanity has, and always will be, humanity. We are, by nature, a curious breed of primate. We are also given talents and skills to build things, and a mind devoid of limits. The problem is, within those same minds can be thoughts of greed, lust for wealth and power. Most animals don't need more than food and sex. Humans want that, but also can find they want for much more.

At that point, they will use their own minds and creativity, to use those of people they convince to follow them. The best and brightest minds are harnessed for the taking of lives, rarely for the furtherment of the species.

Evolution is a great concept, but we prove repeatedly that we cannot.

 

[Waterjunky]

I'm no expert at all of this and don't claim to be. this said, keep in mind a few details that are getting lost in the wash with all of this and I think they are important.

1, the further away from the blast, the less intense it is. Sounds simple and it is. Its still real and has an affect but its not as severe. This is important as this is not a yes/no thing on everything. It is on an individual circuit but not on a system or area. The maps shown early are an affected area but what is that affect in those areas.
2. Circuits and systems come in different levels of resistance to EM fields. An EM field is not unique to a nuclear blast. they are everywhere in the world at all times. A nuke or coronal mass event are huge and powerful but not exclusive. This leads directly to #3.
3. Cars are much more EM resistant than many give them credit for. Think about this for a minute. You cannot have all the systems in your car shutting down every time you drive under the big primary transmission lines. There is a hell of a field surrounding them. Think of welding, there is also a serious field around that. Been around many murdered watches due to welding. Yet others have no issues. I work in low voltage remote sensors for a living, would they live through a serious EMP blast? mostly no. That said, I can place all my hardware directly under a primary transmission line and all works as expected. My toys are well shielded and are designed for this level of EM.
4. Being active when the event occurs can also compound the issues. Dormant systems will have a higher tolerance as there is less total energy in the system.

Really hard to say how all this would interact if and when there is such an event.

 

[ChiliPepperGarage]

Seems a pretty broad statement with a defined outcome. Since this is all hypothetical rubbish anyway, do tell why there is a zero percent success rate in every major city in the US? It seems the geography, available water, timing, route options, speed of which reaction is executed, some level of training, and even luck could change the success rate outcome.

All that said, the more paranoid I become, the less I want to travel to big cities.

If you live in Reno, Nevada, I would say your success rate climbs significantly. I use that example because I used to live there and had a route plan to get to the Inlaws in Northern Idaho. You could be out of that city in less than 10 minutes, even if the cars all just stopped dead on the roads.

I live an hour and half south east of Reno.

This is all hypothetical but in the event of any type of SHTF scenario there probably won't be enough time for you to get the jump on everyone else. that means there are going to be thousands of people trying to do the same thing you are doing, bug out. All roads will be clogged including any alternative dirt roads or trails making them impassable.

People will be in panic mode and will do things that they normally wouldn't. If they perceive you as a threat or if they think you have something they want, they will attack you. once a few of them attach, others will join in. Even if you are heavily armed, eventually you will run out of ammo. You might be able to fend off attackers and move on but soon you will be bogged down again and susceptible to attacks.

If you live in a city like Reno you do have a better chance as you can get to rural areas quickly. I think most RDP inmates live in SoCal or Phoenix where you have to travel great distances to get out of town. These areas also have huge populations which compounds the problems. Have you ever tried to get out of LA on a holiday weekend? Or when there is a major wreck on the freeways?

Most people have no idea how to live off the land or survive in hostile environments. The south west is mostly desert. May people die because of exposure even with no SHTF events. Even if you can manage to get out of town you will have to deal with living in the desert and remaining stealth. This is assuming you won't be able to get fuel for your vehicle (no power to run pumps, stations running out of fuel, hording fuel, etc) so you will be able to get out to the middle of nowhere but no farther. Do you have enough water, food, a shelter of some sort, tools and weapons, etc.? Extreme heat during the day and cold at night. Will will bring the required clothing? Do you know how to navigate with no GPS? Do you have topo maps of the areas you plan to travel? Do you know how to dead reckon? Have you practiced surviving in such conditions? Can you do this with your family?

This is an interesting read with lots of good information:

JoelSkousen.com

Design/remodeling of high security, survival homes, with built-in vault room, security shelter and alternate energy

joelskousen.com

 

[Sportin' Wood]

I live an hour and half south east of Reno.

This is all hypothetical but in the event of any type of SHTF scenario there probably won't be enough time for you to get the jump on everyone else. that means there are going to be thousands of people trying to do the same thing you are doing, bug out. All roads will be clogged including any alternative dirt roads or trails making them impassable.

People will be in panic mode and will do things that they normally wouldn't. If they perceive you as a threat or if they think you have something they want, they will attack you. once a few of them attach, others will join in. Even if you are heavily armed, eventually you will run out of ammo. You might be able to fend off attackers and move on but soon you will be bogged down again and susceptible to attacks.

If you live in a city like Reno you do have a better chance as you can get to rural areas quickly. I think most RDP inmates live in SoCal or Phoenix where you have to travel great distances to get out of town. These areas also have huge populations which compounds the problems. Have you ever tried to get out of LA on a holiday weekend? Or when there is a major wreck on the freeways?

Most people have no idea how to live off the land or survive in hostile environments. The south west is mostly desert. May people die because of exposure even with no SHTF events. Even if you can manage to get out of town you will have to deal with living in the desert and remaining stealth. This is assuming you won't be able to get fuel for your vehicle (no power to run pumps, stations running out of fuel, hording fuel, etc) so you will be able to get out to the middle of nowhere but no farther. Do you have enough water, food, a shelter of some sort, tools and weapons, etc.? Extreme heat during the day and cold at night. Will will bring the required clothing? Do you know how to navigate with no GPS? Do you have topo maps of the areas you plan to travel? Do you know how to dead reckon? Have you practiced surviving in such conditions? Can you do this with your family?

This is an interesting read with lots of good information:

JoelSkousen.com

Design/remodeling of high security, survival homes, with built-in vault room, security shelter and alternate energy

joelskousen.com

I agree with you. The only point I was making was the percentage is more than zero, likely not much. I'm a bit of a cuckoo bird since C-19 on this topic and spend perhaps too much time thinking about it. We have water supply and lifestraws with us almost 100% of the time, and GoBags are ready and with us almost the same. I'm really interested in people's thoughts on the vehicle because I'm trying to learn what might be the best setup, knowing full well it won't work for many people. I hear that a gen 1 12 valve Cummins will run on a blend of ATF fluid, I'm thinking if so, I could scavenge a bunch of that along the way to help prolong my fuel.

I also assume (maybe wrongly) that most of the population will be in shock in the first days, and we won't experience widespread violence in the first days. Lastly, people tend to pick the low-hanging fruit and, I hope, go after easier targets. The risk multiplies significantly every hour after an EMP, and getting away from people is the only reasonable option. Six months of the year, we are in Montana, the rest, I'm traveling for work, which is a death warrant, or in LHC.

This topic fascinates me and has since I was a child and saw a movie at our local church about Revelations. It scared the hell out of me and made me think it is better to die in the first wave, but as a problem solver who likes to fix stuff, it's the ultimate Rubik's cube.

It is not all for nothing, the skill set proves valuable, and the investments still yield a positive return. The price of Gen 1 Cummins trucks certainly does not look to be falling anytime soon. No DEF, easy to fix when you can't find a mechanic.

 

[Cole Trickle]

Seems a pretty broad statement with a defined outcome. Since this is all hypothetical rubbish anyway, do tell why there is a zero percent success rate in every major city in the US? It seems the geography, available water, timing, route options, speed of which reaction is executed, some level of training, and even luck could change the success rate outcome.

All that said, the more paranoid I become, the less I want to travel to big cities.

If you live in Reno, Nevada, I would say your success rate climbs significantly. I use that example because I used to live there and had a route plan to get to the Inlaws in Northern Idaho. You could be out of that city in less than 10 minutes, even if the cars all just stopped dead on the roads.

If you have a vehicle and stop on the side of the road someone will be hiding in the bushes and shooting you when you stop to refill or pee.

If we ever get to the point where what we are discussing is needed we are fucked. There are very few people capable of surviving on the road (health ,strength, endurance, bush craft knowledge ) and I imagine wife's and children tagging along drastically affect ones chances and drop the success %.

You would have to be trained in tremendous shape and a stone cold killer that would do anything for that the next meal.

I think you would have a much better chance of survival by staying put and fortifying with friends and neighbors while pooling skills and supplies.

 

[coolchange]

EMP and Nuclear strikes are two different scenarios with vastly different outcomes.

In my mind, an EMP is the perfect weapon. You essentially lay siege to a country without the loss of your army and preserve the natural resources. We could lose 90% of our people with a single shot. The invading army could come in and mop up after 18 months or less. We would be so busy trying to survive that our ability to make war would be marginalized. Our natural resources would be preserved, and the transfer of wealth and power would be concise.

If the nuke was fired from a cargo ship, it is likely we would not know who to fire back on within the time it takes to deliver the payload. A nuclear strike, in my eyes, is easier to manage than an EMP.

When people say that global warming is the biggest threat to humanity, I laugh. Global warming is inconsequential compared to nuclear weapons, the vulnerability of the grid, and the development of weapons by rouge nations.

Except there would be no invading armies.
Our subs will have obliterated the country ( or countries) that initiated the conflict or make a move to invade.

 

[monkeyswrench]

Can you do this with your family?

@ChiliPepperGarage , this is one of the reasons I moved, and put together what I have here. Nothing special, not an off grid compound, but much increased possibilities to weather a storm. On my own, not easy, but far from impossible. With 4 dependants in that scenario? Entirely different degree of difficulty in the wild, let alone the city.

 

[ChiliPepperGarage]

@ChiliPepperGarage , this is one of the reasons I moved, and put together what I have here. Nothing special, not an off grid compound, but much increased possibilities to weather a storm. On my own, not easy, but far from impossible. With 4 dependants in that scenario? Entirely different degree of difficulty in the wild, let alone the city.

Having a family greatly changes your strategies. My wrestling coach in high school was a Viet Nam vet. he once told me, "A dyeing man is hard to kill". If you have nothing to loose you will fight harder. I'm 67, no wife, no kids, no family. If it come down to it, I can fight to the end and not be worried about who I left behind.