Portable Propane Generators.....the thing that nobody thinks about....

[lbhsbz]

Power is scheduled to be off here tomorrow for replacement of a few poles, so I dug out the Firman dual fuel generator. Battery was dead, but no worries, it's got a pull rope....

Except you need 12V to open the propane valve, so it's worthless with a dead battery on Propane. Fine on gas, but I'm trying to avoid pouring gas in it.

Just an FYI

Edit:...luckily I have a pile of mostly dead, but not all the way dead 12V batteries laying around and at least 6000 low amp DC power supplies, only one of which is actually for this unit to charge the battery, and of course not labels as such and probably tangled up on the bottom of one of the crates full of these damn things....I found a laptop adapter and gaver 24V....worked like a champ lol.

In the trouble shooting section in the manual, "If generator does not start".....one option is battery is dead, solution is to charge battery. Why bother with the fucking pull string then?

 

[monkeyswrench]

Is it a solenoid valve? I know a 9V battery will activate an old "Cheater" NOS solenoid...the door bell to my old shop was a shop air line to an old Peterbilt horn...scared the hell out of people because it was mounted outside.

 

[lbhsbz]

Is it a solenoid valve? I know a 9V battery will activate an old "Cheater" NOS solenoid...the door bell to my old shop was a shop air line to an old Peterbilt horn...scared the hell out of people because it was mounted outside.

I dunno, it's something that goes "click" when you fiddle with the various switches. There is a hose connection and a DC Coax connector / barrel connector. If the electrical side isn't plugged in....no click and no gas. Something in the bigass regulator clicks....or else it won't run.

Stupid ass design. I'll be unfucking that here shortly.

For now I've pulled all the panels off the damn thing looking for the battery....which was of course under the 4th one I pulled off lol....and have my DC power supply that I use for my plating setup giving it 14.5V but it won't come past about 0.18A....so I think the battery is chooched, but I've got nothing better to do tonight so I'll let it cook or explode or whatever it's gonna do.

 

[monkeyswrench]

Can you back feed through a USB charger cord from a cell phone backup? I agree, stupid setup and probably some safety deal.

 

[HTTP404]

Power is scheduled to be off here tomorrow for replacement of a few poles, so I dug out the Firman dual fuel generator. Battery was dead, but no worries, it's got a pull rope....

Except you need 12V to open the propane valve, so it's worthless with a dead battery on Propane. Fine on gas, but I'm trying to avoid pouring gas in it.

Just an FYI

Edit:...luckily I have a pile of mostly dead, but not all the way dead 12V batteries laying around and at least 6000 low amp DC power supplies, only one of which is actually for this unit to charge the battery, and of course not labels as such and probably tangled up on the bottom of one of the crates full of these damn things....I found a laptop adapter and gaver 24V....worked like a champ lol.

Thank you! That is solid info and explains why I had issues starting mine on propane with a low battery. I was lucky and had a spare MC battery on hand. I do not want to use gasoline in this unit if I can avoid it.

 

[havasujeeper]

I was unaware of these safety valves. I guess I'll take the propane genny off my Xmas list.

 

[HTTP404]

I was unaware of these safety valves. I guess I'll take the propane genny off my Xmas list.

Propane gennys are good.

 

[lbhsbz]

Can you back feed through a USB charger cord from a cell phone backup? I agree, stupid setup and probably some safety deal.

Tried backfeeding through the 12V plug that looks like a 2 prong 120V plug with angled tangs, and it did nothing. I don't have a USB suicide cord...so I didn't try that, but I imagine since it's an inverter unit, none of that stuff is connected without the unit making power.

We're up to .29A now at 15V charging the battery....lol.

 

[lbhsbz]

I was unaware of these safety valves. I guess I'll take the propane genny off my Xmas list.

The valve exists to isolate tank pressure when the unit is shut down so that it doesn't bleed off if there's a leak outside of the regulator I guess, which is likely not a bad idea, but it would be nice if they put a manual button or something to bypass it

 

[JDKRXW]

Stupid ass design. I'll be unfucking that here shortly.

Similar to brainwave that Champion inverters have; the fuel valve and ignition switch are a single assembly.;
off/fuel on/ignition on to get it to run.

You can't shut the fuel valve off and let it run itself out of gas. You have to empty the gas tank before draining the carb before letting it starve itself. Otherwise you're taking panels off and trying to figue out which fuel line to pinch.
And let's not get started with the CO sensors.

 

[CarolynandBob]

I agree with other about not wanting to put gas in. I have a duel fuel and have never put gas in. My question is "has anyone converted the propane to Natural gas" I have natural gas at the house. I was going to go the generac route, but most of the power lines near me are underground. Yes there are probably transmission lines that can still cause outages, but those seam to be concrete posts. Anyway with hurricane Milton power was out at the house for a little over a day.

With that my generator can do 30 amp. So we could run the portable a/c unit in the master bedroom, run internet, fridge, and lights. Has anyone done it and what conversion kit did you use?

 

[DarkHorseRacing]

Theres a company out there that sells kits as well as converted gensets for Hondas that can run on LP or NG. I would think if you have a LP genset its just a matter of fixing the flow regulator to work with NG.

 

[TimeBandit]

The harbor freight 5000 dual fuel is going on sale next week and I plan to pick one up. Still deciding about the 2-year warranty as I didn't use my current 1400 watt generator for at least 10 years and it started on the third pull.. because Honda, and I stored it with a dry fuel system.

Like others, I only plan to run it on propane and the electric solenoid is for safety, I'm glad it's there.

I bought a Bluetooth label maker just for the purpose of labeling AC adapters, we all have at least a dozen we don't know what the hell they go to.

Maybe I will splice in an SAE harness that hangs out so I could jump it with my Milwaukee 12 volt rig if need be. I'm assuming the onboard battery will only last two or three years.

There is a YouTuber that sells natural gas conversion kits but when I pressed him for data he doesn't have any. it looks like people basically use the same regulator as propane or buy a natural gas regulator from Amazon and hook it up. Then use a restrictor valve of sorts to get it to run right. Like a carburetor idle adjustment. I think I'll stick to propane. I have plenty of empty 20 lb cylinders and then I could always go to gasoline if I have to.

But if you go the natural gas route you need to make sure there's a cut off solenoid so you're not leaking gas everywhere when the engine turns off.

The Firman used to be a bargain on eBay but recently the price just about doubled... Because Palisades fire maybe?

 

[rvir4us]

The harbor freight 5000 dual fuel is going on sale next week and I plan to pick one up. Still deciding about the 2-year warranty as I didn't use my current 1400 watt generator for at least 10 years and it started on the third pull.. because Honda, and I stored it with a dry fuel system.

Like others, I only plan to run it on propane and the electric solenoid is for safety, I'm glad it's there.

I bought a Bluetooth label maker just for the purpose of labeling AC adapters, we all have at least a dozen we don't know what the hell they go to.

Maybe I will splice in an SAE harness that hangs out so I could jump it with my Milwaukee 12 volt rig if need be. I'm assuming the onboard battery will only last two or three years.

There is a YouTuber that sells natural gas conversion kits but when I pressed him for data he doesn't have any. it looks like people basically use the same regulator as propane or buy a natural gas regulator from Amazon and hook it up. Then use a restrictor valve of sorts to get it to run right. Like a carburetor idle adjustment. I think I'll stick to propane. I have plenty of empty 20 lb cylinders and then I could always go to gasoline if I have to.

But if you go the natural gas route you need to make sure there's a cut off solenoid so you're not leaking gas everywhere when the engine turns off.

The Firman used to be a bargain on eBay but recently the price just about doubled... Because Palisades fire maybe?

when does the 5000 go on sale? is it one of those member only deals or ????? i'll probably pickup one of those for the dual fuel feature alone

 

[lbhsbz]

The Firman used to be a bargain on eBay but recently the price just about doubled... Because Palisades fire maybe?

I got the Firman on the Costco deal a few years back for $400ish IIRC. It's quieter than the harbor freight 4000W unit I had before, and doesn't surge all day.

 

[oldman]

The valve exists to isolate tank pressure when the unit is shut down so that it doesn't bleed off if there's a leak outside of the regulator I guess, which is likely not a bad idea, but it would be nice if they put a manual button or something to bypass it

Something like lighting a water heater override until it sees voltage. set up for 12v rather than heat.

 

[Kachina26]

Is it a solenoid valve? I know a 9V battery will activate an old "Cheater" NOS solenoid...the door bell to my old shop was a shop air line to an old Peterbilt horn...scared the hell out of people because it was mounted outside.

That's awesome!

 

[lbhsbz]

I forgot...I bought a 12V stepdown thing a while back to power some other contraption I was putting together using my DeWalt 20V batteries. As soon as I find it lol, I'll bolt it to the outside of the genny and just click in a battery when I need to use it.

OG battery is now accepting .7A at 14.6V (1/2 the rated charge rate)....so I might recover it. After 4 hours last night, it was at 11.6V without removing the surface charge, this morning it was at 10.8V....I've had it charging for another 3 hours so far.

 

[TimeBandit]

when does the 5000 go on sale? is it one of those member only deals or ????? i'll probably pickup one of those for the dual fuel feature alone

April 7th for inside members and I think the 10th or 11th for the public.

The spring Black Friday sale they call it.

 

[rvir4us]

April 7th for inside members and I think the 10th or 11th for the public.

The spring Black Friday sale they call it.

Sweet thx you! How much for the unit?

 

[TimeBandit]

Sweet thx you! How much for the unit?

$789.

 

[OCMerrill]

I use these and currently own 3. I have never had an issue with them but honestly they have only seen propane. I plan to keep them that way.

Propane does not degrade over time. The one that sits in my storage unit at the river has the most hrs. You have to add an hr meter to track and its near 300 or so.

The other two sit in my garage set up in Parallel with bottles attached waiting for a power outage.

Like $400 complete with a regulator. Perfect for light use.

I would not hand these over to my employees however. My EU 2200's (4) work best for this.

 

[hallett21]

Another member was having a problem with a Westinghouse not running on either propane or gas. It would run on one but not the other. I wonder if it had a similar 12v issue?

Good to know.

 

[havasujeeper]

Am I the only one who gets frustrated at the watt rating using NG vs Gas vs LP? Seems if you plan on using strictly LP, you really need to consider up-sizing the genny?

 

[lbhsbz]

Am I the only one who gets frustrated at the watt rating using NG vs Gas vs LP? Seems if you plan on using strictly LP, you really need to consider up-sizing the genny?

I don't get frustrated....

Propane has about 91,000 BTUs per gallon, Gasoline has about 120,000 BTUs per gallon.

It's just energy density....NG is about 1/2 that of propane.

 

[bilz]

Got 5 years on the original battery on my champion. It wouldn't turn over but at 11.8 v I could still pull start. On trips over 4 days I'll put 1/2 gal of gas, run it as needed until it runs out, then use propane. No problem in 5 + years.
I also have a dual fuel champion pull start only. I treat it the same.

 

[lbhsbz]

Power got shut off 20 minutes ago....

Battery didn't have enough chooch to crank it, but plenty to click the solenoid.

Got internet, wifi mesh, lights, TV, computers....we're good (until I run outta propane lol).

 

[havasujeeper]

I don't get frustrated....

Propane has about 91,000 BTUs per gallon, Gasoline has about 120,000 BTUs per gallon.

It's just energy density....NG is about 1/2 that of propane.

I got to hand it to you. I mean, how the hell does anyone know about energy density?

 

[lbhsbz]

I got to hand it to you. I mean, how the hell does anyone know about energy density?

google

 

[Taboma]

google

Thanks for the battery reminder, planned "Upgrade" outage April 1 and my Firman hadn't been charged for awhile. Good to go now

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

Power is scheduled to be off here tomorrow for replacement of a few poles, so I dug out the Firman dual fuel generator. Battery was dead, but no worries, it's got a pull rope....

Except you need 12V to open the propane valve, so it's worthless with a dead battery on Propane. Fine on gas, but I'm trying to avoid pouring gas in it.

Just an FYI

Edit:...luckily I have a pile of mostly dead, but not all the way dead 12V batteries laying around and at least 6000 low amp DC power supplies, only one of which is actually for this unit to charge the battery, and of course not labels as such and probably tangled up on the bottom of one of the crates full of these damn things....I found a laptop adapter and gaver 24V....worked like a champ lol.

In the trouble shooting section in the manual, "If generator does not start".....one option is battery is dead, solution is to charge battery. Why bother with the fucking pull string then?

A cordless tool battery will work as well. I have jump started our hyster a few times with a Milwaukee 18v battery.

 

[monkeyswrench]

A cordless tool battery will work as well. I have jump started our hyster a few times with a Milwaukee 18v battery.

I have DeWalt/MAC 3/8ths impacts and ratchets. The batteries are perfect for popping trunks and testing things at the wrecking yard. Also good for powering weird rv stuff.

 

[outboard_256]

Those portable jump batteries for cars work good for stuff like this. I use them for testing 12v stuff. Other wise you could pull a battery from a car or motorcycle or use long jumper cables if it's close.

 

[Orange Juice]

I agree with other about not wanting to put gas in. I have a duel fuel and have never put gas in. My question is "has anyone converted the propane to Natural gas" I have natural gas at the house. I was going to go the generac route, but most of the power lines near me are underground. Yes there are probably transmission lines that can still cause outages, but those seam to be concrete posts. Anyway with hurricane Milton power was out at the house for a little over a day.

With that my generator can do 30 amp. So we could run the portable a/c unit in the master bedroom, run internet, fridge, and lights. Has anyone done it and what conversion kit did you use?

We converted a new natural gas stove to propane at the cabin. Took 5 minutes.

 

[Chili Palmer]

Will a jump box give you the 12v power to get the valve open to get it to start?

 

[Angler]

Will a jump box give you the 12v power to get the valve open to get it to start?

I would think so.

 

[lbhsbz]

Will a jump box give you the 12v power to get the valve open to get it to start?

Yes, but you have to go straight to the battery…which means taking off some panels.

 

[Taboma]

Yes, but you have to straight to the battery…which means taking off some panels.

The Jump box I've got comes with a large assortment of adaptors, one of which will plug into where the charger does and back feed the battery enough to crank it and actuate the solenoid. If not, simple enough to make one should you need to jump start it.

 

[lbhsbz]

The Jump box I've got comes with a large assortment of adaptors, one of which will plug into where the charger does and back feed the battery enough to crank it and actuate the solenoid. If not, simple enough to make one should you need to jump start it.

It's a co-ax barrel connector that can handle maybe 1.5A at best (battery's rated charging)....you're not jumping it enough to crank it through that...probably 22ga or smaller wire from that to wherever it goes....it took 15 minutes before it charged enough to work the solenoid.

 

[Taboma]

It's a co-ax barrel connector that can handle maybe 1.5A at best (battery's rated charging)....you're not jumping it enough to crank it through that.....it took 15 minutes before it charged enough to work the solenoid.

It will withstand more than 1.5 Amps for a few seconds of cranking with a good strong voltage source ---- it's worked for me in the past and, it got warm, but nothing melted. But I wasn't jumping a brick of a battery either.

 

[Taboma]

I should clarify @lbhsbz
I was using one I'd made with short leads of #12 zip cord, with ends configured to clamp the jumpstart device jumper leads to.
It was to boost a deplete battery to improve cranking and it didn't have the additional load of the propane solenoid either.

You bring up a good point on the connector amp capacity and it seems you're not going to take the bait test my theory and report back.

I was able to use #18 gauge trickle charger leads connected to my boat batteries that were long gone to jump them and get my hatch motor to lift the hatch. They got warm, but not hot and I was jumpering batteries so dead their polarity was damn near reversed.