Pool guys, HELP!!

[LAZARUS]

Not many pool guys even bother with a heaters more then 10 years old anymore. Not worth the headaches or call backs for hey it’s not working again and I paid you to fix it already. Easier to replace. That and most newer guys don’t even know how older stuff works. Repairs now a days are remove and replace.

Hey now, I've got a 20 year old Hayward heater that has functioned without a hiccup for 20 years now. But then again I've used it 2-5+ days a week every year.

 

[4Waters]

@BUDMAN the sensor your pointing out is for your control system not the heater. It’s a water temp sensor and tells heaters to turn on but control based not heater. And FYI that is a 2 wire sensor, lol - follow it back to where it connects to board.

@4Waters Your heater by what I can see is a non low nox heater. No fan so that’s not the issue.
First check your gas supply valves outside of heater and on house. Sometimes they get bumped and partially closed. Sometimes easiest fix is the problem
The high limit is likely not it, if tripped you wouldn’t get any ignition
You mentioned you replaced igniter, why? Was it doing same as issue now?
You can test by placing a jumper one at a time across high limits, flow switch, etc... ( flow switch normally near header water inlet and outlet side of heater
note: if this isn’t your specialty be very fucking careful and stay clear of heater top and opening when testing! Jumping safeties can create explosive situation, causing instant hair loss at the very least.
Burner tray should come out, clean burners and orifices correctly. Igniter cleaned. Wire connections made correct. Old parts and new parts especially on hayward do not always connect in same slots as previous.
You can check continuity from a to a, b to b c to c etc pretty much same as doing a jumper but then your face is right in there as your testing.
Most likely is the flame sensor on igniter. Or orifice on burner closest to igniter
If neither of above. Then could be gas valve, ignition control, thermostat board, potentiometer, wire in between any of those ( rats love the shit out of heaters for living and eating up them tasty wires ) etc.

Not many pool guys even bother with a heaters more then 10 years old anymore. Not worth the headaches or call backs for hey it’s not working again and I paid you to fix it already. Easier to replace. That and most newer guys don’t even know how older stuff works. Repairs now a days are remove and replace.

I went to use it a few months ago and noticed the igniter sounded different and it wouldn't light so I opened it up and noticed the wire was chafed. I held the wire away with a screwdriver and it lit but went out. I ordered up a new igniter and compared the 2 and there was no difference they looked exactly the same, I put it in and here we are. I'll pull a few more panels off today and see if I can locate some of these sensors. So far I can't find any chewed wires. As far as the chafed wire it's a stupid place to run it, if you try to go out and around the wire is to short if you run it on the inside it will get burnt.

 

[Lumpy]

@BUDMAN the sensor your pointing out is for your control system not the heater. It’s a water temp sensor and tells heaters to turn on but control based not heater. And FYI that is a 2 wire sensor, lol - follow it back to where it connects to board.

@4Waters Your heater by what I can see is a non low nox heater. No fan so that’s not the issue.
First check your gas supply valves outside of heater and on house. Sometimes they get bumped and partially closed. Sometimes easiest fix is the problem
The high limit is likely not it, if tripped you wouldn’t get any ignition
You mentioned you replaced igniter, why? Was it doing same as issue now?
You can test by placing a jumper one at a time across high limits, flow switch, etc... ( flow switch normally near header water inlet and outlet side of heater
note: if this isn’t your specialty be very fucking careful and stay clear of heater top and opening when testing! Jumping safeties can create explosive situation, causing instant hair loss at the very least.
Burner tray should come out, clean burners and orifices correctly. Igniter cleaned. Wire connections made correct. Old parts and new parts especially on hayward do not always connect in same slots as previous.
You can check continuity from a to a, b to b c to c etc pretty much same as doing a jumper but then your face is right in there as your testing.
Most likely is the flame sensor on igniter. Or orifice on burner closest to igniter
If neither of above. Then could be gas valve, ignition control, thermostat board, potentiometer, wire in between any of those ( rats love the shit out of heaters for living and eating up them tasty wires ) etc.

Not many pool guys even bother with a heaters more then 10 years old anymore. Not worth the headaches or call backs for hey it’s not working again and I paid you to fix it already. Easier to replace. That and most newer guys don’t even know how older stuff works. Repairs now a days are remove and replace.

What he said!

How long you been in the business for Mello?
I've been at for 32 years now.

 

[BaileyP]

If it’s not one of the sensors it’s a flow issue check all valve positions - With ours if the Solar valve was open threre not enough flow and it will lock out. Tolok me awhile to figure it out as sometimes it would work sometimes not.. if not one of the sensors . Try trouble free pool .com lots of good info on there

 

[Havasu blue label]

Are you in havasu

 

[4Waters]

Are you in havasu

Me? No I'm in Simi Valley

 

[4Waters]

@Melloyellovector

What sensor is this? It's not in the book.

I also found the pressure switch and immersion Hi-Limit Rear Header 160°. Can I jump these? The other sensor (pic from above post) is called High Limit.

 

[G. Faulk]

Hey now, I've got a 20 year old Hayward heater that has functioned without a hiccup for 20 years now. But then again I've used it 2-5+ days a week every year.

You have a heater built back in the day when real pool heaters were built. Any pool heater built after 2008 that now complies with emissions and efficiency are 5-7 year max. Like Mellow said remove and replace.

Teledyne made this heater the series 1 or 2, bad water chemistry or a rodent was the only thing basically that would take it out. The efficiency might only be like 60% but if it was cooled down properly after use a long "laster" it was.

It sucks for the consumer that a lot of things now are built not to last.

 

[G. Faulk]

Yes you can jump in question. I don't work on anything Hayward but my guess that's a flame roll out sensor and yes if so you can jump it.

I hate to tell you this but your heater pics show a lot of corrosion, it may be time for a new heater.

Be careful.

 

[4Waters]

Yes you can jump in question. I don't work on anything Hayward but my guess that's a flame roll out sensor and yes if so you can jump it.

I hate to tell you this but your heater pics show a lot of corrosion, it may be time for a new heater.

Be careful.

I jumped the rollout sensor, no change. Can I jump the other ones?

 

[HOOTER SLED-]

Fucking hurry up and figure this out so I can use my jacuzzi....

 

[4Waters]

Fucking hurry up and figure this out so I can use my jacuzzi....

Not looking good, damn it.

 

[4Waters]

Ok so I have put a meter on every sensor I can find and they are all zero, once the heater is turned on they all show a voltage value (they are all different) then they all fall to zero and the heater shuts off.

 

[traquer]

Did you try kicking it a bit? Serious. Works in a pinch sometimes

 

[HOOTER SLED-]

Perhaps?

 

[Melloyellovector]

Perhaps?

That’s a millivolt heater. No electricity. Pretty same as an old school water heater. So not really the same

 

[Melloyellovector]

@Lumpy around 32 years. started out as service and did start ups for Anthony Pools, then Orcal way back, SCP management, Corp pep, been building for around 18 years. Brother is Corp sales PEP 35 years, other brother is pool service 40 years . Between the 3 of us you can say there is some “experience” lol

@4Waters check burner and orifice closest to igniter
Since it did similar before replacing I’d assume igniter is not your problem
Most common is orifice or burner itself is rotted out near igniter.
Likely sensors ( high and low limits, flow switch, etc... ) are all working or it wouldn’t get to the point of trying to ignite
Next would likely be gas valve. You can clean connections, and give it some semi light knocks. You have a lot of corrosion in that heater even if you get it working it’s days are still numbered.
There is ways to test gas valve and activate it opening etc. But I’m not explaining here. Try YouTube.
Same thing with ignition control box.
Again be careful testing and jumping things, you can get valve to fully open and it delay ignition and blow your self up. No joke

 

[4Waters]

@Lumpy around 32 years. started out as service and did start ups for Anthony Pools, then Orcal way back, SCP management, Corp pep, been building for around 18 years. Brother is Corp sales PEP 35 years, other brother is pool service 40 years . Between the 3 of us you can say there is some “experience” lol

@4Waters check burner and orifice closest to igniter
Since it did similar before replacing I’d assume igniter is not your problem
Most common is orifice or burner itself is rotted out near igniter.
Likely sensors ( high and low limits, flow switch, etc... ) are all working or it wouldn’t get to the point of trying to ignite
Next would likely be gas valve. You can clean connections, and give it some semi light knocks. You have a lot of corrosion in that heater even if you get it working it’s days are still numbered.
There is ways to test gas valve and activate it opening etc. But I’m not explaining here. Try YouTube.
Same thing with ignition control box.
Again be careful testing and jumping things, you can get valve to fully open and it delay ignition and blow your self up. No joke

I'm trying not to mess with the gas valve if I can help it, I definitely know the dangers. I appreciate your input and expertise, I will poke around a little more and report back.

 

[rmarion]

@Melloyellovector

What sensor is this? It's not in the book.

View attachment 860337
View attachment 860341

I also found the pressure switch and immersion Hi-Limit Rear Header 160°. Can I jump these? The other sensor (pic from above post) is called High Limit.

pull off connectors.... wire brush and re-connect..

that did the trick when mine had the same issue you are describing..

good luck

 

[4Waters]

Ok so problem solved it was the spark ignitor board, thanks for all the suggestions and help RDP and a big thanks to @Melloyellovector. @HOOTER SLED- I'm going to PM you my number.

 

[HOOTER SLED-]

Hmmmmm....so what did that set you back? Lol....

 

[4Waters]

Hmmmmm....so what did that set you back? Lol....

Call me, I'll walk you through what I did with diag. Did you get my PM? Actually pretty easy, the part was 190 shipped

 

[HOOTER SLED-]

Yea...I got it...but maybe that's not what is wrong with mine????

 

[4Waters]

Yea...I got it...but maybe that's not what is wrong with mine????

It would take me too long to type it out, you can do the diag in about 30 min and have a pretty good idea what the problem is or actually know what the problem is.

 

[HOOTER SLED-]

It would take me too long to type it out, you can do the diag in about 30 min and have a pretty good idea what the problem is or actually know what the problem is.

Word......at some point I'll call u then....lol...doin dinner and chillin n shit.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

I only got to post #45. The first video says it all. The control module isn't proofing the flame. Hence the constant buzz like sound. That's actually the intermittent spark ignition. It could be a incorrectly adjusted flame sensor or a bad control module. I'm leaning towards the module since it doesn't go into lockout after 3 "failed" attemtps.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[4Waters]

I only got to post #45. The first video says it all. The control module isn't proofing the flame. Hence the constant buzz like sound. That's actually the intermittent spark ignition. It could be a incorrectly adjusted flame sensor or a bad control module. I'm leaning towards the module since it doesn't go into lockout after 3 "failed" attemtps.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

It was the module

 

[Flying_Lavey]

Dirty or bad pilot/sensor assembly...upon ignition the flame is being pulling off the sensor so it shuts off and tries again.
Probably a speck of something in the pilot orifice not allowing full pilot while running or if there is no pilot to the rail the igniter/sensor
is over has debris in it so when all burners ignite the flame is being pulled of the igniter/ flame sensor.
By the looks of it and the model its probably a aged unit. Ya Hayward does kinda suck.

Flame sensor, or flow sensor

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Ok so problem solved it was the spark ignitor board, thanks for all the suggestions and help RDP and a big thanks to @Melloyellovector. @HOOTER SLED- I'm going to PM you my number.

attempts. Damn, they beat me to it! Although I will say I nailed it off just the first video. Lol!

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[AQUA-HOLICS]

@Lumpy around 32 years. started out as service and did start ups for Anthony Pools, then Orcal way back, SCP management, Corp pep, been building for around 18 years. Brother is Corp sales PEP 35 years, other brother is pool service 40 years . Between the 3 of us you can say there is some “experience” lol

@4Waters check burner and orifice closest to igniter
Since it did similar before replacing I’d assume igniter is not your problem
Most common is orifice or burner itself is rotted out near igniter.
Likely sensors ( high and low limits, flow switch, etc... ) are all working or it wouldn’t get to the point of trying to ignite
Next would likely be gas valve. You can clean connections, and give it some semi light knocks. You have a lot of corrosion in that heater even if you get it working it’s days are still numbered.
There is ways to test gas valve and activate it opening etc. But I’m not explaining here. Try YouTube.
Same thing with ignition control box.
Again be careful testing and jumping things, you can get valve to fully open and it delay ignition and blow your self up. No joke

Melloyellovector, I remember Orcal days when I had my own pool rout back in the early 80s. My wife worked for Anthony pools in the early 80s also in the Westminster and Orange office, what a small world, Ray.