Opinions please - shopping for an ocean boat.

[HotRod82]

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[/QUOTE]

Price Reduction!! - 1990 Novatec 44 CPMY - boats - by dealer -...

Rebuilt Detroit 6v92s (150 Hours) Interior Modernized Great Condo on the water that you can Fish...

sandiego.craigslist.org

The Devil's Advocate is here to rain on your parade:
Zip the boat up the coast to visit your friends? That's what the freeway is for. 7 hours and $1100 in fuel.... you'll make that trip once.
Think about the costs...you thought a river boat got expensive... wait til you have a salt water boat.
Monthly dock fees, insurance utilities, bottom paint, bottom scraping......everything wears out and fast!
Plus all the bird shit. LOL

On the other hand, you'll have lots of jealous friends who will want to come along....

I grew up in SD and we had many friends with boats kept in the water, we always trailered and it's an incredible amount of work. I told my wife to budget $35K a year if we pay cash for the boat, she says she's ready to do so. You touched on an important element of our boat search though.....I want to spend less going in, in case my wife changes her mind in a year or two and we need to unload the boat. Going out and buying something REALLY expensive then selling it two years later is a good way to lose a couple hundred grand very quickly.....

 

[HotRod82]

true fuckin story!

Take everything you thought about boat costs and quadruple that shit to start. Ocean / slipped boats. Another level of Money spent from a weekend / lake boat.

Just buy a cigarette like you wanted to in the first place and thank me later.

I know, I know, ......lol.
I told my wife $35K a year for a boat kept in the water if we pay cash for the boat......she says she has it in the budget. ( she's an accountant and tracks every penny we spend) I told her she may have to cut back on her shoe and jewelry purchases.

 

[C08H18]

53 hatteras and other 55-60’ sports fishers running 25 knots will burn 50 gals//hr. (1200 gal tanks). But fuel won’t be your big expense. Moorage will run $8-10K a year and the yearly haul out ran me about $5K on my 55’ Ocean. I always seemed to have a prop or shaft that needed work, new zincs, through hole service, thruster service, replace a cut less bearing etc etc I did my own bottom paint but had the yard do mechanicals. Oil and filter changes in the big Detroit’s and 12KW genset wasn’t cheap either.


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[Taboma]

I know, I know, ......lol.
I told my wife $35K a year for a boat kept in the water if we pay cash for the boat......she says she has it in the budget. ( she's an accountant and tracks every penny we spend) I told her she may have to cut back on her shoe and jewelry purchases.

I think one important consideration when one is considering outboards vs inboard power is at which speed they're most efficient. As one example, for trailerable fishing machines where you're going to want to scoot out to the fish and scoot home, or run at speed up or down the coast, the outboards excel ---- they like to run. The question is, will conditions or passenger comfort, allow it on most days ? So many things I like about them, especially in the salt environment.

But, if you've got your boat set up primarily for longer cruises, comfort and entertaining, you don't want your wares, TV, microwave and mini-fridge, to be flying around the cabin or your passengers hanging on for dear life. I don't care what kind of boat you've got, 30' CC or 65' convertible, there's days your shit will get smashed.

I think the big Cigs are a hoot, but they're pretty much a One Trick Pony. As you already know, picking the perfect boat to fit your lifestyle and pocket book is ALL about compromises, that's especially true in the ocean. Seems in our case, we rapidly moved up in size and comfort from a 19' trailerable cuddy cabin that I'd put in a slip for a couple of summer months, to a 38', with a nice salon that became our 2nd home on the water.

The great thing was, we were using it almost every weekend. Yes, but the truth is, I was also spending a bucket load of time each of those weekends crawling around in the bilge, repairing or upgrading shit. Then when I needed fresh air and sun, I'd be outside washing, waxing or polishing chrome.

I had boat neighbors from AZ, didn't know a socket wrench from a screwdriver, never saw them crack a hatch. They'd point and make jokes about how all they ever saw of me was my ass sticking up out of the open hatch cover as they sucked down their beers and margaritas.
Then later I'd get my laughs when they got towed in YET AGAIN, because they didn't even know they had two fuel tanks they could switch between or some mechanical malady they were unaware of. Guess ignorance was bliss of sorts, if you don't peer under the hatch, you don't realize how many things are down there just waiting to break, lol Until they do that is.

One of the most fun things I recall about our floating condo days was, just how much I loved my 13' RIB inflatable. My wife and I ran the shit outta that little sucka
Bay cruising, especially at night, damn that was so cool. Often I'd leave really early in the morning while my wife as still snug in the bunk and head out fishing, or just a make a morning speed run up the bay.

One reason I'm writing all this BS isn't just for YOU, it's for ME.
Yes, after well over 25 years at Havasu since we sold our last ocean boat and relocated our recreation --- we've given a lot of thought into going back to the sea once again.
So like you, I've spent an untold number of hours scrolling through the Yacht World listings and attending various harbor Boat Shows.
We're kinda burned out at Havasu, it's changed, the boats and people have changed and we've changed and well, it gets fucking hot there.
We're simply going less and less each successive year, yet the $$$$ are still required, there or not.

One HUGE consideration this round however is this, we're both also over 25 years older --- Now there's a compromise we weren't faced to factor in last round.

As you've been exploring I'm sure you've noticed how many 50' + boats are on the market and how their prices are often no more or even less than let's say a 43' of a similar model and power ---- yup, there's an obvious reason for that when you factor slipping it, mooring it and maintenance.
There's times I think I'd like to find one with no engines, just sleep and party on the boat and get a bigger inflatable for my boating fun

Good Luck sir !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PS: I'm sure having fun reading this thread and day dreamin about all those "Good ole Salty Days", there's just something about being on the ocean, maybe it's just knowing as you peer out on the endless horizon, that you could just keep going and leave all the people and BS behind.

 

[HotRod82]

53 hatteras and other 55-60’ sports fishers running 25 knots will burn 50 gals//hr. (1200 gal tanks). But fuel won’t be your big expense. Moorage will run $8-10K a year and the yearly haul out ran me about $5K on my 55’ Ocean. I always seemed to have a prop or shaft that needed work, new zincs, through hole service, thruster service, replace a cut less bearing etc etc I did my own bottom paint but had the yard do mechanicals. Oil and filter changes in the big Detroit’s and 12KW genset wasn’t cheap either.


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Yeah, that's why I'm not buying one of those.......lol. I'm thinking newer, smaller, and much lighter. Maybe when I get old and have more time to cruise up the coast I'll go bigger. I have a couple friends with newer twin Yamaha 300's and they clip along pretty good at 20GPH.

 

[mesquito_creek]

I know its not directly salt water related... But I slip my stern drive sundancer 290 for 7 months in the summer in a fresh water lake. It costs me about 1000-2000 a year in parts and about 100 hours of my labor to prep it in the off season.

This year we are going to swap the cost of slip and slip related maintenance for an "Annual Oversize Watercraft" permit and the costs of towing/weekending.

 

[HotRod82]

I think one important consideration when one is considering outboards vs inboard power is at which speed they're most efficient. As one example, for trailerable fishing machines where you're going to want to scoot out to the fish and scoot home, or run at speed up or down the coast, the outboards excel ---- they like to run. The question is, will conditions or passenger comfort, allow it on most days ? So many things I like about them, especially in the salt environment.

But, if you've got your boat set up primarily for longer cruises, comfort and entertaining, you don't want your wares, TV, microwave and mini-fridge, to be flying around the cabin or your passengers hanging on for dear life. I don't care what kind of boat you've got, 30' CC or 65' convertible, there's days your shit will get smashed.

I think the big Cigs are a hoot, but they're pretty much a One Trick Pony. As you already know, picking the perfect boat to fit your lifestyle and pocket book is ALL about compromises, that's especially true in the ocean. Seems in our case, we rapidly moved up in size and comfort from a 19' trailerable cuddy cabin that I'd put in a slip for a couple of summer months, to a 38', with a nice salon that became our 2nd home on the water.

The great thing was, we were using it almost every weekend. Yes, but the truth is, I was also spending a bucket load of time each of those weekends crawling around in the bilge, repairing or upgrading shit. Then when I needed fresh air and sun, I'd be outside washing, waxing or polishing chrome.

I had boat neighbors from AZ, didn't know a socket wrench from a screwdriver, never saw them crack a hatch. They'd point and make jokes about how all they ever saw of me was my ass sticking up out of the open hatch cover as they sucked down their beers and margaritas.
Then later I'd get my laughs when they got towed in YET AGAIN, because they didn't even know they had two fuel tanks they could switch between or some mechanical malady they were unaware of. Guess ignorance was bliss of sorts, if you don't peer under the hatch, you don't realize how many things are down there just waiting to break, lol Until they do that is.

One of the most fun things I recall about our floating condo days was, just how much I loved my 13' RIB inflatable. My wife and I ran the shit outta that little sucka
Bay cruising, especially at night, damn that was so cool. Often I'd leave really early in the morning while my wife as still snug in the bunk and head out fishing, or just a make a morning speed run up the bay.

One reason I'm writing all this BS isn't just for YOU, it's for ME.
Yes, after well over 25 years at Havasu since we sold our last ocean boat and relocated our recreation --- we've given a lot of thought into going back to the sea once again.
So like you, I've spent an untold number of hours scrolling through the Yacht World listings and attending various harbor Boat Shows.
We're kinda burned out at Havasu, it's changed, the boats and people have changed and we've changed and well, it gets fucking hot there.
We're simply going less and less each successive year, yet the $$$$ are still required, there or not.

One HUGE consideration this round however is this, we're both also over 25 years older --- Now there's a compromise we weren't faced to factor in last round.

As you've been exploring I'm sure you've noticed how many 50' + boats are on the market and how their prices are often no more or even less than let's say a 43' of a similar model and power ---- yup, there's an obvious reason for that when you factor slipping it, mooring it and maintenance.
There's times I think I'd like to find one with no engines, just sleep and party on the boat and get a bigger inflatable for my boating fun

Good Luck sir !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PS: I'm sure having fun reading this thread and day dreamin about all those "Good ole Salty Days", there's just something about being on the ocean, maybe it's just knowing as you peer out on the endless horizon, that you could just keep going and leave all the people and BS behind.

Great post, thanks! You get it......
And yes, there is just something about being on the ocean.

 

[Taboma]

Great post, thanks! You get it......
And yes, there is just something about being on the ocean.

Yeah, but when that "Boat Bug Bites", all sense of rational thought, all those pesky expensive negatives we know to be true, somehow just vanishes giving way to clear blue skies and calm seas
I can't begin to count the miles and smiles I've boated in my mind, as I sit here plying the pages of Yacht World, recalling all those amazing trips, both fishing and just cruising.
It's only later, perhaps after a cold shower, the WTF are you thinking reality comes screaming back --- what a fuckin buzz kill LOL ---- MORE BEER DEAR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[j21black]

Magnum 80

 

[Xring01]

I highly recommend that you take a hard look at a 28-33 Ft Walk Around Cuddy Cabin with Twin Outboards. Your fuel costs will be higher, but your maintenance costs will be alot lower than Deisel boat.

Use it as a good starter boat for a year or more.
If you see that you have enjoyed it, it hasnt broken the bank, and its to small for your needs..

Sell it at 90-95% of what you paid for it, and move up to a larger boat.

I had a 28ft er with Twin 250's, it was a great boat.
When I compared how much I used my boat, versus all my friends with 32-55ft Diesel Sport Fishers... there was no comparison.

I was running 2x - 4x the hours they where. A key reason was the O&M cost for me was alot less than it was for them. Which meant I had more money for fuel, bait, ice chest stuff...

Another key thing, thay may be of interest...
Boats like this can be trailered, for maintenance reasons. Thats Why I bought my 28fter. Once maybe Twice I year, I pulled it out of the slip for all the maintenance (oil/plugs/impellors etc), bottom painting (every two years). Which I did myself, saved me alot of money. Versus paying haul out facility's and there labor rates.

I sold this boat about 18 months ago ish.

 

[Taboma]

I highly recommend that you take a hard look at a 28-33 Ft Walk Around Cuddy Cabin with Twin Outboards. Your fuel costs will be higher, but your maintenance costs will be alot lower than Deisel boat.

Use it as a good starter boat for a year or more.
If you see that you have enjoyed it, it hasnt broken the bank, and its to small for your needs..

Sell it at 90-95% of what you paid for it, and move up to a larger boat.

I had a 28ft er with Twin 250's, it was a great boat.
When I compared how much I used my boat, versus all my friends with 32-55ft Diesel Sport Fishers... there was no comparison.

I was running 2x - 4x the hours they where. A key reason was the O&M cost for me was alot less than it was for them. Which meant I had more money for fuel, bait, ice chest stuff...

Another key thing, thay may be of interest...
Boats like this can be trailered, for maintenance reasons. Thats Why I bought my 28fter. Once maybe Twice I year, I pulled it out of the slip for all the maintenance (oil/plugs/impellors etc), bottom painting (every two years). Which I did myself, saved me alot of money. Versus paying haul out facility's and there labor rates.

I sold this boat about 18 months ago ish. View attachment 852827 View attachment 852828 View attachment 852829

Great boat you can have loads of fun in So what did you replace it with ? If you don't mind me asking. I've seen some slightly larger Grady Whites or Whalers with twins, with a bit more cabin space, but damn, they're not giving those away

 

[Riverfamlee]

I hear there is a nice ocean liner getting ready to dock in Oakland....might need a little cleaning and disinfecting

 

[H20 Toie]

i had a Formula 400SS with 525s and Cigarette with 525s
The 400 lived in the ocean and after 5 years i had very few issues with it . but i did keep up on maintenance which is much more since it was in the salt.
it would do 60mph max. cruised nice at 50. it handled rough water pretty darn well. I had zero issues with the drives corriding even though i expected to. but you have to make sure the zincs are replaced regularly . I had them sanded and then special paint before it ever stayed in the ocean. when i sold it the boat had 400 hours on it.
In the time i had it i had one drive break and i am thinking that the 80 mile trip from Catalina in rough water when i was catching air a lot might have had something to do with it
Just a great boat and comfortable. even with the rough water we have here it held up great.
Now trailering it was a different story, just a pain in the ass. taking the radar and lights off. hanging the signs on it. towed it once with the F450 and that scared the shit out of me. Sportchassis was a piece of cake.

 

[sirbob]

There are a couple of cool battlewagons on oc craigslist just to muddy the waters a bit...

This is a ton of boat for the money: https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/bod/d/newport-beach-53-hatteras-convertible/7076504469.html

So is this:

46' Hatteras Convertible Restored - boats - by dealer - marine sale

Beautiful Hatteras Convertible Restored with many custom features. Fresh paint in cockpit &...

orangecounty.craigslist.org

I had friend with one of those 53 Hatts years ago - He kept it in south Fla or the Bahamas (always on the move).

They won the Bertrum - Hatteras shoot out one year that takes place in Walkers Key and they had a big full spread article written in Marlin Magazine about the bunch of drunk knuckleheads that won the tourney against all the multi million dollar guys with their hired capts. They walked away with $650,000 in a brown paper bag!

Boy did we have fun on that boat!!!

 

[HotRod82]

I highly recommend that you take a hard look at a 28-33 Ft Walk Around Cuddy Cabin with Twin Outboards. Your fuel costs will be higher, but your maintenance costs will be alot lower than Deisel boat.

Use it as a good starter boat for a year or more.
If you see that you have enjoyed it, it hasnt broken the bank, and its to small for your needs..

Sell it at 90-95% of what you paid for it, and move up to a larger boat.

I had a 28ft er with Twin 250's, it was a great boat.
When I compared how much I used my boat, versus all my friends with 32-55ft Diesel Sport Fishers... there was no comparison.

I was running 2x - 4x the hours they where. A key reason was the O&M cost for me was alot less than it was for them. Which meant I had more money for fuel, bait, ice chest stuff...

Another key thing, thay may be of interest...
Boats like this can be trailered, for maintenance reasons. Thats Why I bought my 28fter. Once maybe Twice I year, I pulled it out of the slip for all the maintenance (oil/plugs/impellors etc), bottom painting (every two years). Which I did myself, saved me alot of money. Versus paying haul out facility's and there labor rates.

I sold this boat about 18 months ago ish. View attachment 852827 View attachment 852828 View attachment 852829

Been looking at those, I really like them but the complete and total lack of built in lounging area combined with most of them having a tower or at least rocket launcher setups make them a very tough sell to my wife. A good friend has a Bayliner Trophy that we run the crap out of....it's been a great boat.
Funny you mentioned having something trailerable just for servicing, I was telling my wife just last night this would be a huge money saver even though we plan on keeping it in the water. In fact there is a spotless 30' express cruiser that spent it's life in Tahoe and dry stored on a trailer. Needless to say it's inviting because it's 10 years old and looks new, having never seen the salt.

 

[spectras only]

Hotrod, I've seen this Formula last summer. It's still for sale, absolutely minty condition. It's reduced to 99K cdn, you do the math in US.

Seadog Boat Sales, Boat Rentals, Fishing Charter, Water Taxi, Sicamous, BC, Shuswap

Sea-Dog Boat Sales, Sicamous, BC. Authorized Avalon Pontoon & Monterey Boat dealer, EZ Loader Trailers, consignments. Boat Rentals. Fishing Charters. Taxi.

seadogboatsales.com

 

[spectras only]

• Make: Formula
• Model: 330 SS
• Length: 35 ft TBL
• Color: Burgundy
• Hours: 283.3 / 284.4 on engines 537 on boat
• Engine: 496 HO x2 with Seacore Bravo 3 drives.
• Options: New engines and drives in 2016, 5 watt Kohler gen set 205hrs, unbeliveble upgraded sound system, custom front boat cushions, Garmin radar and chart plotter, sink, freezer, fridge, head, 60mph boat, super clean boat, fresh water boat, fully loaded and over serviced, Shows 9/10
• Trailer: Ez loader tandem
• Price: $99,800 Plus Tax Just Reduced from $125,000

 

[Xring01]

Great boat you can have loads of fun in So what did you replace it with ? If you don't mind me asking. I've seen some slightly larger Grady Whites or Whalers with twins, with a bit more cabin space, but damn, they're not giving those away

Glacier Bay 2240 Renegade.
Which is a dual console boat, that fits all my current needs. I am no longer a die hard offshore fisherman, but I do like to get out on occasion. Nothing rides like a catamaran. Honestly this boat rides better than the 28 fter in most conditions.

I had the 28fter when my Son was in high school. So we used it alot. But he is in college now, and I just didnt use the 28ft enough to justify the slip fees. Using it as a trailer boat, was not gonna happen. It would be very difficult to launch by my self.

Which made me look at smaller boats that fit my needs.. and the GB 22 gets the job done.

Lots of seating (8 peeps easily with elbow room), all the fishing accommodations, plenty of storage, rod holders, bait tanks, fish holds, porta potty, etc etc etc.

Its a great boat, and gets 2x better fuel economy as the 28fter...

The best news of all, I can launch it and retrieve it all by my self with no issues what so ever, I dont even get my feet wet.

And the best thing ever about the GB22... Drink holders every where ... honestly... I would have never thought I would have appreciated having drink holders everywhere... Now that I have it, I dont think I can ever give that up. When a fish bites, you gotta place to set your drink, and it doesnt spill... who would have thought?


If you are truly considering a WACC, then take a look at the Sea Swirl Striper 2901 with twin outboards. Has more interior space that my WACC, it was larger, more comfortable for the ladies. Decent Deck layout for Passenger seating. It will come in at 2/3 the price of a Boston Whaler or Grady. Last thing... think Striper also makes a 33fter or something close to it.

Aquasport/Wellcraft makes 27/28fter and a 30fter and a 33.. All are great boats, especially for west coast offshore fishing. 28fter Doesnt have the passenger seating like the 30fter does. They do that for a reason though... Because you not typically offshore fishing with more than 4-5 guys, so more seating is taking up valuable deck space for fishing.

I have owned many many boats over the years, if you truly want to discuss my opinion of the pros/cons of what I have learned, just PM me your number.

Twin Outboards are far better than twin diesels on boats up to 32feet ish. A twin outboard boat in this class will hold its value alot better than a twin diesel boat in this class... If you for a larger boat, then twin diesel direct drive is the way to go. If it my money, I would only own Cummins or Yanmar Diesels... like everything else in life... I have alot of opinions on why.

If Express Cruiser is truly what you are looking for... and outboards are not in the equation...
Tiara - yep.... excellent west coast boats 29-52ft Ex Cruiser, that truly hold there value, and are very very well made. Find one with the above recommended engines. Ride very good and most women truly love the layouts. Made for entertaining first, and can fish decently. A key note on this choice... your O&M costs will be alot higher than the smaller twin outboard choice.

When diesels need maintenance or repairs, its not cheap. Its very expensive. (A buddy of mine had over $5K in a volvo turbo rebuild once, just the turbo). I can stay on this subject for days on the cost of diesels.

Most Outboards can easily be maintained by someone that changes the oil in there own cars. Which is why you have a huge savings on the Total Ownership Costs. Especially the Yamahas, Hondas and Suzukis... The Merc Verados, I dont care for at all.

 

[DaveC]

Thats cool. Those Formula SS look good.

Might be more than you want to spend but the Tiara's and Cruisers Yachts Express Cruisers are nice too.

Spent all day looking again, 30 to 40 foot express cruisers. We looked at a convertible and a couple aft cabins but they just don't suit our needs right now. There is a spotless Maxum we like but it's only a 30 footer and is a little cramped. Lots of boats out there for sale, too many choices!

We are in the same boat as you. (pun intended) Looking at more of a moored option. I like the Express Cruisers but I might do a fly bridge instead . I am not sure what we want or need? We don't have any ocean experience. As much as I would like to go there I am resisting the temptation for a "go-fast" boat for something that has more berthing/passenger areas.

I am reading this thread with interest. Keep us updated.

 

[DrunkenSailor]

Been looking at those, I really like them but the complete and total lack of built in lounging area combined with most of them having a tower or at least rocket launcher setups make them a very tough sell to my wife. A good friend has a Bayliner Trophy that we run the crap out of....it's been a great boat.
Funny you mentioned having something trailerable just for servicing, I was telling my wife just last night this would be a huge money saver even though we plan on keeping it in the water. In fact there is a spotless 30' express cruiser that spent it's life in Tahoe and dry stored on a trailer. Needless to say it's inviting because it's 10 years old and looks new, having never seen the salt.

It would be pretty easy to throw a wrap around high back bench in the stern with a table in a walk around to turn it from fish machine to party cruiser. The driver would definitely be isolated but that's not always a bad thing.

 

[HotRod82]

It would be pretty easy to throw a wrap around high back bench in the stern with a table in a walk around to turn it from fish machine to party cruiser. The driver would definitely be isolated but that's not always a bad thing.

Lol....I tried this argument, all I got was the death stare from my wife. I just spent about 6 months building a custom RV, so she didn't see me much during that time. The thought of another project doesn't exactly float her boat.....
Actually, there is a twin yamaha powered Robolo for sale that the owner added a wrap around in the back for more seating and it looks pretty good. Unfortunately it's only a 26 and the cabin is really small.

 

[HotRod82]

View attachment 852862 View attachment 852864

Glacier Bay 2240 Renegade.
Which is a dual console boat, that fits all my current needs. I am no longer a die hard offshore fisherman, but I do like to get out on occasion. Nothing rides like a catamaran. Honestly this boat rides better than the 28 fter in most conditions.

I had the 28fter when my Son was in high school. So we used it alot. But he is in college now, and I just didnt use the 28ft enough to justify the slip fees. Using it as a trailer boat, was not gonna happen. It would be very difficult to launch by my self.

Which made me look at smaller boats that fit my needs.. and the GB 22 gets the job done.

Lots of seating (8 peeps easily with elbow room), all the fishing accommodations, plenty of storage, rod holders, bait tanks, fish holds, porta potty, etc etc etc.

Its a great boat, and gets 2x better fuel economy as the 28fter...

The best news of all, I can launch it and retrieve it all by my self with no issues what so ever, I dont even get my feet wet.

And the best thing ever about the GB22... Drink holders every where ... honestly... I would have never thought I would have appreciated having drink holders everywhere... Now that I have it, I dont think I can ever give that up. When a fish bites, you gotta place to set your drink, and it doesnt spill... who would have thought?


If you are truly considering a WACC, then take a look at the Sea Swirl Striper 2901 with twin outboards. Has more interior space that my WACC, it was larger, more comfortable for the ladies. Decent Deck layout for Passenger seating. It will come in at 2/3 the price of a Boston Whaler or Grady. Last thing... think Striper also makes a 33fter or something close to it.

Aquasport/Wellcraft makes 27/28fter and a 30fter and a 33.. All are great boats, especially for west coast offshore fishing. 28fter Doesnt have the passenger seating like the 30fter does. They do that for a reason though... Because you not typically offshore fishing with more than 4-5 guys, so more seating is taking up valuable deck space for fishing.

I have owned many many boats over the years, if you truly want to discuss my opinion of the pros/cons of what I have learned, just PM me your number.

Twin Outboards are far better than twin diesels on boats up to 32feet ish. A twin outboard boat in this class will hold its value alot better than a twin diesel boat in this class... If you for a larger boat, then twin diesel direct drive is the way to go. If it my money, I would only own Cummins or Yanmar Diesels... like everything else in life... I have alot of opinions on why.

If Express Cruiser is truly what you are looking for... and outboards are not in the equation...
Tiara - yep.... excellent west coast boats 29-52ft Ex Cruiser, that truly hold there value, and are very very well made. Find one with the above recommended engines. Ride very good and most women truly love the layouts. Made for entertaining first, and can fish decently. A key note on this choice... your O&M costs will be alot higher than the smaller twin outboard choice.

When diesels need maintenance or repairs, its not cheap. Its very expensive. (A buddy of mine had over $5K in a volvo turbo rebuild once, just the turbo). I can stay on this subject for days on the cost of diesels.

Most Outboards can easily be maintained by someone that changes the oil in there own cars. Which is why you have a huge savings on the Total Ownership Costs. Especially the Yamahas, Hondas and Suzukis... The Merc Verados, I dont care for at all.

Great info - thanks! The longer this thread goes on, my initial thoughts are being reinforced. For our needs / wants right now, I really do want the smaller lighter outboard platform as long as it has enough "fluff" to satisfy the wifey. Maybe someday graduate to a big diesel cruiser but I'm just not there yet. The gas powered express cruisers are getting less attractive, although I'm not ruling them out completely because they are so plentiful you can drive a pretty good deal on one.

 

[DrunkenSailor]

Pursuit Boats For Sale

Pursuit boats for sale in Florida, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Washington. Dual Console, Walkarounds, Express Cruiser, Sports Fishing Boats for sale.

moreboats.com

These are exactly what I think your looking for but they are too new of a model. This one is actually pretty decently priced:

Jeanneau Boats For Sale

Jeanneau boats for sale in California, Washington, Maryland, South Carolina. Racers and Cruisers, Cruisers, Flybridge, Sloop boats for sale.

moreboats.com

 

[HotRod82]

Pursuit Boats For Sale

Pursuit boats for sale in Florida, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Washington. Dual Console, Walkarounds, Express Cruiser, Sports Fishing Boats for sale.

moreboats.com

These are exactly what I think your looking for but they are too new of a model. This one is actually pretty decently priced:

Jeanneau Boats For Sale

Jeanneau boats for sale in California, Washington, Maryland, South Carolina. Racers and Cruisers, Cruisers, Flybridge, Sloop boats for sale.

moreboats.com

Yes, the Jeanneau Leader is good, the Jeanneau NC line, like a 1095 is even better, almost like a convertible but with outboard power.

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

Magnum 80

Goddamn... St Tropez worthy! Loved that white one

 

[RVR2SNO]

Flipping this. If interested let me know!

40' Formula SS 2006 - boats - by dealer - marine sale

Beautiful boat with a beautiful price! This one has twin Volvo diesels with only 410 hours, Touch...

orangecounty.craigslist.org

 

[H20 Toie]

Flipping this. If interested let me know!

40' Formula SS 2006 - boats - by dealer - marine sale

Beautiful boat with a beautiful price! This one has twin Volvo diesels with only 410 hours, Touch...

orangecounty.craigslist.org

I noticed the price went up on it

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

So my wife has been bugging me for years for an ocean boat (we live in San Diego) and I've been dragging my feet a bit, simply due to being busy with other things. We started looking at something trailerable, me obviously gravitating toward a 35' ish Cigarette or similar......but no, she wants a big cruiser for a more social experience with more room for more people. This conversation has logically turned into the realization that we need a bigger boat that stays in the water. I told her I refuse to own a big trawler that would take forever to get to Catalina or Newport, so we have been looking at Express Cruisers. I've never owned a slow boat before and the thought of cruising at 18 knots while guzzling more than 20 GPH worth of fuel makes my eye twitch. Anyone have any experience with express cruiser style boats? Are the stern drives better than the big v-drives?
All opinions and personal experiences welcome.

I'll throw in my opinion after reading entire thread... I live and boat out of Newport keeping boat at Dunes in dry dock utilizing the launch services. [29' Magic Wizard] I have several buddies with 32-35' "sport cruisers" that they rent slips for in our harbor. My all time favorite is a Maxum that I want to say is around 32'. Its got twin 350s and what I enjoy the most about that beast is the beam.... this wouldn't be a trailering boat in my opinion.... its simply too dang beamy which is why its such a great socializing layout. He sold it recently for way under 100K and he kept it super clean with monthly detail service, etc.... I can't recall the year but I'm guessing he took around 85-90K finally after many viewings just wore his ass out. Most of this class of boat is about finding the layout that suits your lifestyle desires. I will tell you that my buddies give taking these to Catalina a long look due to their gas cost in doing so. And you mentioned you like to run at speed so KaChing right! The slip cost up here runs them appx $1500/ mth at 32-35' and I imagine your bay runs in a similar range down there. Don't forget the monthly hull cleaning fees and annual bottom painting. Sounds like your wife knows numbers so ya got that covered. Last I checked it was 75 miles for you to hit Avalon... one way, lol. That'll be some serious fuel brutha.... you've got plenty to consider but hurry up and make your move.... whale season will wind down soon.

 

[n2otoofast4u]

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

Great post, thanks. This is really boiling down to big, slow heavy cruiser with lots of comfort and amenities vs. smaller faster cruiser able to zip from SD to our friends place on the water in Newport and back in the same day when the weather permits. All good points from everyone and in a few years we probably will go towards an aft cabin or convertible when we have more time to harbor hop and run up the coast further. Right now with the shorter trips we plan on taking, I want to be able to move along a little quicker.

I'm definitely going to go shaft drive instead of I/O which eliminates at least half of the express cruisers available. It's too bad the 4 stroke outboard equipped express cruisers are so damn expensive, they are exactly what I want right now.

And of course there's the opinion that perhaps we should all sell our friggin boats and simply rent.......

 

[ChiliPepperGarage]

And of course there's the opinion that perhaps we should all sell our friggin boats and simply rent.......

I was going to suggest rent or even chartering. That way you can experience various different types of boats and then decide what to buy. You might find out that renting/chartering will end up being your long term solution.

There is also the fractional ownership option.

 

[HotRod82]

I'll throw in my opinion after reading entire thread... I live and boat out of Newport keeping boat at Dunes in dry dock utilizing the launch services. [29' Magic Wizard] I have several buddies with 32-35' "sport cruisers" that they rent slips for in our harbor. My all time favorite is a Maxum that I want to say is around 32'. Its got twin 350s and what I enjoy the most about that beast is the beam.... this wouldn't be a trailering boat in my opinion.... its simply too dang beamy which is why its such a great socializing layout. He sold it recently for way under 100K and he kept it super clean with monthly detail service, etc.... I can't recall the year but I'm guessing he took around 85-90K finally after many viewings just wore his ass out. Most of this class of boat is about finding the layout that suits your lifestyle desires. I will tell you that my buddies give taking these to Catalina a long look due to their gas cost in doing so. And you mentioned you like to run at speed so KaChing right! The slip cost up here runs them appx $1500/ mth at 32-35' and I imagine your bay runs in a similar range down there. Don't forget the monthly hull cleaning fees and annual bottom painting. Sounds like your wife knows numbers so ya got that covered. Last I checked it was 75 miles for you to hit Avalon... one way, lol. That'll be some serious fuel brutha.... you've got plenty to consider but hurry up and make your move.... whale season will wind down soon.

Thanks for the input! Actually for some reason slip fees are down and availability is up for the under 40' range. Fees range from 450 for no amenities up to about 900 for a good spot. I know the fuel is a killer with the express cruisers but we're likely to run to Catalina only a couple times a year so it's not really all that bad. The more people I talk to, the more I like the idea of a slightly smaller boat that can be trailered even though it's not a "trailerable" boat. I spoke with a local transport company and he told me to keep the beam under 10 feet and he will haul it to my shop for 500 bucks. This would allow me to do all of the maintenance and not be at the mercy of the boat yards. I'm thinking about a 28 to 32 express cruiser or an outboard powered walkaround. Of course my wife could care less about the performance or the maintenance, she just wants to sit on the deck and drink her champagne so the bigger the better as far as she's concerned.

 

[mesquito_creek]

Thanks for the input! Actually for some reason slip fees are down and availability is up for the under 40' range. Fees range from 450 for no amenities up to about 900 for a good spot. I know the fuel is a killer with the express cruisers but we're likely to run to Catalina only a couple times a year so it's not really all that bad. The more people I talk to, the more I like the idea of a slightly smaller boat that can be trailered even though it's not a "trailerable" boat. I spoke with a local transport company and he told me to keep the beam under 10 feet and he will haul it to my shop for 500 bucks. This would allow me to do all of the maintenance and not be at the mercy of the boat yards. I'm thinking about a 28 to 32 express cruiser or an outboard powered walkaround. Of course my wife could care less about the performance or the maintenance, she just wants to sit on the deck and drink her champagne so the bigger the better as far as she's concerned.

There is a sweet spot for “trailering” and express cruisers. I feel that I am in it with a Sundancer 290. There are other 300s and the formula PC 29 and 31 might fit the bill. I am at 10 feet wide. I sit on a triple axle trailer at 12-13000 lbs wet. I trailer it every year for maintenance. After 6 years of trailering local, I am going to try trailering from Phoenix to lake Powell this year. It requires an annual watercraft oversize permit for 45 dollars. All I need is a wide load banner across the transom. Don’t be fooled by “290” or “31” etc.. take a tape measure. My 290 is 35 feet long and the manufacture lists it as 27’6” for registration purposes.

it works great for my wife and I and you easily rough it with another 2 people 1 night. Bigger is definitely better but the transport and maintenance goes up logarithmicly since you are at the mercy of haul outs and shop fees.

you are not just maintaining one motor and out drive. Two motors and genny, hot water heaters, air conditioning, fridges and on and on. I absolutely love boating for 3 days straight never leaving the lake!

 

[HotRod82]

There is a sweet spot for “trailering” and express cruisers. I feel that I am in it with a Sundancer 290. There are other 300s and the formula PC 29 and 31 might fit the bill. I am at 10 feet wide. I sit on a triple axle trailer at 12-13000 lbs wet. I trailer it every year for maintenance. After 6 years of trailering local, I am going to try trailering from Phoenix to lake Powell this year. It requires an annual watercraft oversize permit for 45 dollars. All I need is a wide load banner across the transom. Don’t be fooled by “290” or “31” etc.. take a tape measure. My 290 is 35 feet long and the manufacture lists it as 27’6” for registration purposes.

it works great for my wife and I and you easily rough it with another 2 people 1 night. Bigger is definitely better but the transport and maintenance goes up logarithmicly since you are at the mercy of haul outs and shop fees.

you are not just maintaining one motor and out drive. Two motors and genny, hot water heaters, air conditioning, fridges and on and on. I absolutely love boating for 3 days straight never leaving the lake!

question about your 290....we looked at a 320 and I was surprised how the walk path around the cockpit to the bow was almost nonexistent and totally sketchy. Getting to the bow quickly for lines etc. would be a challenge. Looking at pictures, it seems the 290 at least has 6 inches or so to walk on. Is getting to the bow an issue on your 290?

 

[DaveC]

I agree we should rent them but instead wouldn't renting the boat be cheaper by comparison?

And of course there's the opinion that perhaps we should all sell our friggin boats and simply rent.......

 

[QC22]

the walk path around the cockpit to the bow was almost nonexistent and totally sketchy. Getting to the bow quickly for lines etc. would be a challenge.

Many of the express cruisers have molded steps in the cockpit up to and through the windshield. The best ones have steps that are a decent size with the sliding cabin door closed or open. None of them are reasonable going around on top of the gunwale. Guaranteed to get wet that direction...

 

[QC22]

I see steps like these as required. This is a 310 Sundancer

 

[mesquito_creek]

question about your 290....we looked at a 320 and I was surprised how the walk path around the cockpit to the bow was almost nonexistent and totally sketchy. Getting to the bow quickly for lines etc. would be a challenge. Looking at pictures, it seems the 290 at least has 6 inches or so to walk on. Is getting to the bow an issue on your 290?

Obviously a center cockpit access is much better than having to walk up and around the radar arch on an older 290 like mine. I am in fresh water, normally anchored up in calm water and I go up and around all the time having owned it for 6 years. I can also get to the bow through the window hatch dead center using the front v birth bed. Newer sundancers (280/290) moved the radar arch fully out to the gunwale and have center or side/center bow access. Its a sobriety check point, once you fall off my boat going up to the bow around the arch its time to shut down the igintions, remove the keys and set the anchor alarm!

 

[HotRod82]

View attachment 853739

I see steps like these as required. This is a 310 Sundancer

Good to know the 310 is through the windshield. We were on a 320 last weekend and the only bow access was out and around, it was sketchy, in fact a deal breaker. I'll have to research when they changed it, which ones have the center access and which ones don't.

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

I agree we should rent them but instead wouldn't renting the boat be cheaper by comparison?

Legit point lol

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

.... And lets not forget the newer "Club" rental arrangement that is growing in popularity around Newport. Maybe San Diego has one as well.... from what I am told you pay around $800/ mth and they allow you access to several different vessels for a set amount of days per month. The group here last I heard has 3-4 boats. Largest being one like we've been discussing for you at appx 32' sport cruiser. My buddy sold his boat and joined last year. They had to learn how to operate a twin screw and this group has a duffy as well as a runabout in their fleet to choose from. I think they're plan is to buy another boat as popularity grows. Its an interesting concept..... as a member you have zero maintenance responsibilities. I think they grab days each month, choose a boat style desired and board it and go. I might be missing some smaller points of the agreement.

 

[DrunkenSailor]

.... And lets not forget the newer "Club" rental arrangement that is growing in popularity around Newport. Maybe San Diego has one as well.... from what I am told you pay around $800/ mth and they allow you access to several different vessels for a set amount of days per month. The group here last I heard has 3-4 boats. Largest being one like we've been discussing for you at appx 32' sport cruiser. My buddy sold his boat and joined last year. They had to learn how to operate a twin screw and this group has a duffy as well as a runabout in their fleet to choose from. I think they're plan is to buy another boat as popularity grows. Its an interesting concept..... as a member you have zero maintenance responsibilities. I think they grab days each month, choose a boat style desired and board it and go. I might be missing some smaller points of the agreement.

Ask your friend about availability I have been looking at a couple but no one will give me an advanced look at the reservation calendar which makes me worried.

 

[Mike K]

I had a 52 Viking with Detroit turbo diesels ... beautiful boat ... fast ... cruised 26 knots ... killer on the gas and everything else ... if I had to do ocean again and I was not going to trailer ... then I would go with a 30 to 33 footer MAX ... so much easier to get slips and cans and same amount of people space kinda. if your not into “Designer Name” boats ... look into the Chaparral 30 sport ... more for the $ than a SeaRay. Good luck.

 

[Xring01]

I had a 52 Viking with Detroit turbo diesels ... beautiful boat ... fast ... cruised 26 knots ... killer on the gas and everything else ... if I had to do ocean again and I was not going to trailer ... then I would go with a 30 to 33 footer MAX ... so much easier to get slips and cans and same amount of people space kinda. if your not into “Designer Name” boats ... look into the Chaparral 30 sport ... more for the $ than a SeaRay. Good luck.

I agree with most of what your saying,
BUTTTT.
Chaparral 30fters are all pretty much Gas boats, and alot have outdrives, few are direct drive....

Therefore I would rule it out. Gas Inboard or Gas I/O thats going to live in a slip is going to have a very high Maintenance costs. The exhaust systems on these types of boats are pretty expensive to replace. Parts and the Labor. Remember when you have to hire someone to maintain your boat near the water... The price is normally not negotiable and there is a long wait list to get the work done. IMHO Gas Inboards are not designed for Saltwater environments, or lest just say they are not as robust in that department as a Diesel Marine motor. Gas will break more frequently and have lower costs to repair over the diesel. The Diesel will break less frequently, but have higher cost. The key thing is the resale value in the future. Gas will lose its value and be very difficult to sell, Diesel will hold its value and be desirable to boat buyers.

Outboard powered boat is penny's compared to Gas Inboard or Diesel annual maintenance costs. Please ask me how I know. The exhaust on my 2006 Yamaha 250'S was original when I sold the boat 18 months ago. So was the lower units, pretty much the entire engines were original except tune up items... and Thermostats.

The exhaust on my 2006 Seaswirl striper Volvo 5.0 260hp was $1000 in parts, the HP Fuel Pumps was $1000 part on amazon. idler pullys, alternators, drive pumps... I can keep going.... Even on the older Mercs I owned...

One of the key things I do when I face decisions like this.
Create a spreadsheet, which all the projected costs and do my best to create a "TOC" annual Total Ownership Costs of the various boats. Then I factor in a projected resale in 2 years. I typically by the one with the lowest cost of that period of time. Which is how I came up with the below recommendations.


Back to what I stated prior, Below 33ft stay with Outboard Power (Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki, Etec in that order) 33ft and above then Diesel Direct drive....

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

Ask your friend about availability I have been looking at a couple but no one will give me an advanced look at the reservation calendar which makes me worried.

Just heard back from my buddy... keep in mind this scenario is regarding the Newport Harbor business.... His comment was it works fine as long as you plan in advance, especially in summer months when they become busiest.

 

[DrunkenSailor]

Just heard back from my buddy... keep in mind this scenario is regarding the Newport Harbor business.... His comment was it works fine as long as you plan in advance, especially in summer months when they become busiest.

Awesome thanks!

 

[TPC]

Things I would have done differently:

The Vaccu-flush toilet with holding tank and macerator was nice when it worked. It was constant issues of one sort or another. Constant, unresolved.
Each of 4 components is over $1000 each and sold as complete units when they fail. And they fail and give you a bad time on the way to failing.
A good quality cassette toilet is the way to roll and maybe keep an extra cassette or two in storage.

If you can use a Honda eu generator use that instead of an on board - in the engine compartment generator. I wouldn't order the generator again and I'll spare you all the reasons. Ours was bad ass but servicing it was brutal. A real MFSOB.

Absolutely no Ray Marine products.

Things I'm glad we had:
Air conditioning was fantastic. Head, galley, bedrooms, main cabin all had cold and hot air outlets.

Extra refers.
6 batteries.

Mercury improved their Bravo lines and their cats on the gas engines in 2011. They were HUGE improvements.

My best memories are numerous.

My worst memories were the fuckballs you have to deal with in the Catalina harbor.
The hard work it is owning a salt water cruiser and that hard work ain't no understatement.
The enormous cost to keep it all jiving.
Rarely did we do a trip where someone uninsured didn't slam into us always with more than minor damage. Plus all the other assholes that surround you, usually sailboaters.

A tritoon in Parker sounds soooo much better next time around.

 

[DrunkenSailor]

Things I would have done differently:

The Vaccu-flush toilet with holding tank and macerator was nice when it worked. It was constant issues of one sort or another. Constant, unresolved.
Each of 4 components is over $1000 each and sold as complete units when they fail. And they fail and give you a bad time on the way to failing.
A good quality cassette toilet is the way to roll and maybe keep an extra cassette or two in storage.

If you can use a Honda eu generator use that instead of an on board - in the engine compartment generator. I wouldn't order the generator again and I'll spare you all the reasons. Ours was bad ass but servicing it was brutal. A real MFSOB.

Absolutely no Ray Marine products.

Things I'm glad we had:
Air conditioning was fantastic. Head, galley, bedrooms, main cabin all had cold and hot air outlets.

Extra refers.
6 batteries.

Mercury improved their Bravo lines and their cats on the gas engines in 2011. They were HUGE improvements.

My best memories are numerous.

My worst memories were the fuckballs you have to deal with in the Catalina harbor.
The hard work it is owning a salt water cruiser and that hard work ain't no understatement.
The enormous cost to keep it all jiving.
Rarely did we do a trip where someone uninsured didn't slam into us always with more than minor damage. Plus all the other assholes that surround you, usually sailboaters.

A tritoon in Parker sounds soooo much better next time around.

Lol i swear i say or hear "look at this idiot" at least twice at the avalon moorings everytime.

 

[DrunkenSailor]

So my wife has been bugging me for years for an ocean boat (we live in San Diego) and I've been dragging my feet a bit, simply due to being busy with other things. We started looking at something trailerable, me obviously gravitating toward a 35' ish Cigarette or similar......but no, she wants a big cruiser for a more social experience with more room for more people. This conversation has logically turned into the realization that we need a bigger boat that stays in the water. I told her I refuse to own a big trawler that would take forever to get to Catalina or Newport, so we have been looking at Express Cruisers. I've never owned a slow boat before and the thought of cruising at 18 knots while guzzling more than 20 GPH worth of fuel makes my eye twitch. Anyone have any experience with express cruiser style boats? Are the stern drives better than the big v-drives?
All opinions and personal experiences welcome.

This thing is sick!!!

2007 fountain 38lx - boats - by owner - marine sale

Beautiful 2007 fountain 38lx New upholstery New Gator Step flooring Triple 275hp mercury verados...

orangecounty.craigslist.org

 

[HotRod82]

This thing is sick!!!

2007 fountain 38lx - boats - by owner - marine sale

Beautiful 2007 fountain 38lx New upholstery New Gator Step flooring Triple 275hp mercury verados...

orangecounty.craigslist.org

Yeah, I saw this one and I would have gone and looked at it by now without all the Covid stuff going on. Needless to say we're in a bit of a holding pattern in regards to boat shopping, just being a little cautious until things settle down a bit. Sweet boat though.