Oil spills, serious question

[stephenkatsea]

I heard in KFI today that the pipeline was deflected by 105' and looks like the string of a bow before you release. The pipe was apparently straight before that. So the ship would have liability. That said, the low pressure alarm went off at 2:39am Saturday and the pipeline wasn't shut down until 6:00am. It wasn't reported until 9:00am. Looks like someone my have been asleep at the computer. You would think that a massive loss of pressure would cause an automatic shutdown. Then, inspect and if no leaks, turn it back on. I may be oversimplifying this.

I’d like to know KFI’s news sources. Time of the 9:00am report is likely public info. How would KFI know the low pressure alarm, on the platform, went off at 2:39am? And the platform didn’t secure the pipeline until 6am? Historically I’ve often found our news media to be misinformed but anxious to report first. Validity often seemed not much of a priority.

 

[KevinR]

Don’t forget about the city’s money grab to cover pensions.

I understand your point, but how does it link to this oil spill?

 

[Joker]

I understand your point, but how does it link to this oil spill?

The city has already filed lawsuits to stuff their coffers. If you think this money is going to local businesses you’re being fooled. The city has their hand in this what they call a catastrophe . They hid this in the closet to keep the air show alive but it caught up to them

 

[WYRD]

Anyone else keeping an eye on oil futures? Getting dangerously close to the $100 threshold opec swore it would never be at again...

 

[KevinR]

The city has already filed lawsuits to stuff their coffers. If you think this money is going to local businesses you’re being fooled. The city has their hand in this what they call a catastrophe . They hid this in the closet to keep the air show alive but it caught up to them

Aaahhh, interesting. I had not thought of that at all.

 

[Taboma]

The ship’s Master has the ultimate responsibility. Some concerned Masters opt to carry liability insurance. But, as always, in these situations the attorneys involved are looking for the deepest pockets. That typically is the vessel’s owner. It gets muddled real quick. What if the vessel had been mis-directed by someone ashore at the Marine Exchange of LA/LB. Interesting that this Marine Exchange is advertised as a non profit organization. So, that may somehow cloud their liability exposure? When we had to anchor prior to entering a port, some sort of “Port Control” would instruct us to proceed to Anchorage X Y Z. Knowing these radio transmissions are all recorded, I would repeat their instructions and wait for their affirmative response. Upon completing anchoring I would again call Port Control and let them know that we were anchored and standing by in anchorage X Y Z, as advised. There would be no Pilot involved at this point. When they were ready for us to enter port, we’d be advised over radio, the Pilot would arrive at our vessel at xxxx hr. The Pilot would have berthing information and we’d then proceed to that berth, with the Local Routing instructions/advice from the Pilot. We never required tugs. If tugs are used the Pilot directs them. Some pilots also request to con the ship. But, that is at the discretion of the Master.

“If” a ship disturbed this pipeline, given the recent weather, it is unlikely that wind/swell/waves may have caused that ship to drag anchor. I’ve witnessed Masters opting to be making dead slow ahead speeds while they are pulling their anchor. Truthfully, it gives them a little steerage and removes some of the mud and sand from their anchor. Also, some Masters may forcefully back down on their anchor to make sure it is hung. On a 800ft+ ship, a 100ft drag is nothing. In any case, it appears the pipeline had somehow been moved 100 ft. AIS records for that time period should indicate if any ships had been near the fracture location recently as found by CG divers. That pipe is not going to move by itself.

Extremely interesting, thank you

I'd like to address one point in regards to the below comment, more as a point of curiosity or what if.

" That pipe is not going to move by itself. "

From what I've read, it's not uncommon for Oil Pipelines to be pumped at pressure of 600-1000 PSI, I've read as some as high as 1400 PSI.
Was this one ? I have no idea, but at those pressures, if a rupture began on one side, I'm not so sure it's not possible for a 16-18" pipeline to move itself 100'.
I don't know what it would take to move that pipeline, maybe it is impossible or improbable, but I know a rupture in a hose or pipe at far less than 1000 PSI can exert a lot of force.

Anyway, just a what if.

 

[nowski]

Low pressure alarm at 2:39am does that mean the ship decided to all of a sudden pull anchor in the cover of the darkness???

Was this an honest failure / mistake or was this an act of sabotage???

 

[nowski]

The city has already filed lawsuits to stuff their coffers. If you think this money is going to local businesses you’re being fooled. The city has their hand in this what they call a catastrophe . They hid this in the closet to keep the air show alive but it caught up to them

I'm starting to think you've been in HB too long, time for some fresh air...

 

[Taboma]

I'm starting to think you've been in HB too long, time for some fresh air...

It's rumored that HB officials and locals are so disturbed by the " Black Intrusion ", they've reactivated their own private defense forces, thought long ago disbanded.

Here's a picture of the defense forces from a parade held during their glory days, circa 1920's Huntington Beach CA. After which they all went surfing.

 

[Joker]

I'm starting to think you've been in HB too long, time for some fresh air...

You are 100% correct

 

[stephenkatsea]

Extremely interesting, thank you

I'd like to address one point in regards to the below comment, more as a point of curiosity or what if.

" That pipe is not going to move by itself. "

From what I've read, it's not uncommon for Oil Pipelines to be pumped at pressure of 600-1000 PSI, I've read as some as high as 1400 PSI.
Was this one ? I have no idea, but at those pressures, if a rupture began on one side, I'm not so sure it's not possible for a 16-18" pipeline to move itself 100'.
I don't know what it would take to move that pipeline, maybe it is impossible or improbable, but I know a rupture in a hose or pipe at far less than 1000 PSI can exert a lot of force.

Anyway, just a what if.

Believe it was stated, the pipe was 15”and incased in 2” thick cement.

You’re thinking the pipe may have self propelled itself thru the split? With enough force to move about 4000 ft of 15” pipe which was covered with 2” of cement, to a maximum 105’ lateral movement from its original position? I wouldn’t think so.

 

[stephenkatsea]

Neighbor worked for Arco in their oil fields all over the world. Told me this morning that they use to call their oil islands in Long Beach Thumbs... They were always under the thumb of the environmentalists. Went on to explain that most of their platforms are under shell companies so if something goes wrong the Corporation is protected.

Those oil islands were named THUMS because originally they were owned and operated by Texaco, Humble, Union, Mobile and Shell. THUMS is an acronym for those companies. But, that’s not to say they weren’t closely observed by environmentalists. It was THUMS that provided every Long Beach/Lakewood High School with an off campus “canteen” for the kids where dances etc were held. Those islands were in our view when we lived on Ocean Blvd. Nicely lit at night. Believe at least one even had a water feature.

 

[Taboma]

Believe it was stated, the pipe was 15”and incased in 2” thick cement.

You’re thinking the pipe may have self propelled itself thru the split? With enough force to move about 4000 ft of 15” pipe which was covered with 2” of cement, to a maximum 105’ lateral movement from its original position? I wouldn’t think so.

You're probably correct. I'm not sure about the incased, as much as laid on the ocean floor and capped. I dunno, but 1000 PSI if it's being projected horizontally has a lot of thrust potential. I'd think either scenario would be obvious to a trained observer.

 

[stephenkatsea]

Th

You're probably correct. I'm not sure about the incased, as much as laid on the ocean floor and capped. I dunno, but 1000 PSI if it's being projected horizontally has a lot of thrust potential. I'd think either scenario would be obvious to a trained observer.

Cement wrapped steel pipe is common in offshore oil fields. It was the CEO of the operating company who gave the pipe description. Attached is a photo of cement wrapped pipe.

 

[92562]

I’d like to know KFI’s news sources. Time of the 9:00am report is likely public info. How would KFI know the low pressure alarm, on the platform, went off at 2:39am? And the platform didn’t secure the pipeline until 6am? Historically I’ve often found our news media to be misinformed but anxious to report first. Validity often seemed not much of a priority.

I totally agree with you but it is the source I had. They were supposedly quoting the report made by the oil company to the federal authorities at 9:00am, which may be public for all I know.

 

[spectra3279]

Oh h

It's rumored that HB officials and locals are so disturbed by the " Black Intrusion ", they've reactivated their own private defense forces, thought long ago disbanded.

Here's a picture of the defense forces from a parade held during their glory days, circa 1920's Huntington Beach CA. After which they all went surfing.

View attachment 1056370

Oh hell it's a kkk rally

 

[stephenkatsea]

Here's a very good discussion/report I found on YouTube about the recent oil spill. It's lengthy, but very clear and comprehensive. It brings up many of the situations and entities I'd previously mentioned. But in more depth with good graphics. The presenter is retired Merchant Marine Capt. Sal Mercogliano. He has other videos on YouTube covering maritime events. He seems straight forward and to the point. He's obviously done his homework and does a very good job in this presentation.

 

[boatnam2]

Had no idea about cables.

 

[Taboma]

Had no idea about cables.

My son and I diving off of Key West carved our initials in the Submarine Telephone cable to Cuba Joking, but we did give it a good feel up

 

[rrrr]

Had no idea about cables.

Another rrrr History Lesson™:

On August 5, 1914, the day after Great Britain declared war on Germany as World War I began, the British grappled up all of the German transatlantic telegraph cables except one and severed them. They tapped into the remaining cable, and used it to obtain and decipher German military and diplomatic traffic sent in code.

 

[Bigbore500r]

OK.....WHO DID IT ????

 

[stephenkatsea]

There seems to be a number of Federal Agencies who should be involved, although as yet they are not. BOEM, Maritime Admin, Dept of Energy, Dept of Transportation etc etc

 

[stephenkatsea]

The ship anchored closest to the damaged pipe was the Rotterdam Express, per electronic anchorage observation conducted. This vessel did berth in Long Beach for a reported short time. Per their Voyage Plan they transited to Oakland, where USCG boarded and inspected the vessel at their Oakland berth. The vessel departed Oakland this morning. Their Voyage Plan had indicated Seattle - Vancouver would be their next ports of call. Upon clearing San Francisco they turned south. Their revised Voyage Plan now calls Manzanillo MX their next port of call.

 

[WYRD]

The ship anchored closest to the damaged pipe was the Rotterdam Express, per electronic anchorage observation conducted. This vessel did berth in Long Beach for a reported short time. Per their Voyage Plan they transited to Oakland, where USCG boarded and inspected the vessel at their Oakland berth. The vessel departed Oakland this morning. Their Voyage Plan had indicated Seattle - Vancouver would be their next ports of call. Upon clearing San Francisco they turned south. Their revised Voyage Plan now calls Manzanillo MX their next port of call.

Would they even know if they did hit it? I wouldn't think a ship that large would feel a thing

 

[rrrr]

The ship anchored closest to the damaged pipe was the Rotterdam Express, per electronic anchorage observation conducted. This vessel did berth in Long Beach for a reported short time. Per their Voyage Plan they transited to Oakland, where USCG boarded and inspected the vessel at their Oakland berth. The vessel departed Oakland this morning. Their Voyage Plan had indicated Seattle - Vancouver would be their next ports of call. Upon clearing San Francisco they turned south. Their revised Voyage Plan now calls Manzanillo MX their next port of call.

gCaptain says AIS info has the ship leaving its assigned anchorage position and moving across and parallel to the pipeline two times, once at 3 AM. In both cases, it moved back to the anchorage position under power.

The shop's operator, Hapag-Lloyd, claims the data is faulty and denies the ship ever moved.

We shall see.