Oil spills, serious question

[WYRD]

Why is the only oil spills we ever hear about are here in the United States? Places like Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Etc all produce more oil than we do but I don't recall ever hearing about any catastrophic oil spills.
Do they have better equipment than us or the news media just doesn't report on them, or perhaps the government might just cover them up? Seems like they would have them more frequently than we do over here.

 

[4Waters]

Good question

 

[KevinR]

I believe it is because those countries don’t spew how Climate Change is going to soon kill off the Earth. The real message of reporting our oil spills is to continue to hammer on fossil fuels and the destruction of the environment, birdies and the such.

 

[4Waters]

I would love to be able to blame this oil spill on covid, I hope a container ships anchor caused damage to this pipeline. Of course if that is in fact what happened we won't hear that.

 

[Taboma]

Why is the only oil spills we ever hear about are here in the United States? Places like Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Etc all produce more oil than we do but I don't recall ever hearing about any catastrophic oil spills.
Do they have better equipment than us or the news media just doesn't report on them, or perhaps the government might just cover them up? Seems like they would have them more frequently than we do over here.

A quick search brings up a lot of Oil Spill data. Of course the largest being the result of the 1991 Gulf War. We've certainly go a few notables, Deep Water Horizon being the largest I believe. Most of the world's reported oil spills are maritime shipping accidents.
Here's an interesting article on Russia which it seems is spilling it as fast as they extract it. Typical of Russia, oil spill, what oil spill ??

Russia: A country of oil spills – DW – 03/29/2021

With an oil leak occurring somewhere in the country almost every half hour, Russia records many more spills than other oil-rich states. One hotspot is the Komi Republic in the far north.

www.dw.com

 

[WYRD]

A quick search brings up a lot of Oil Spill data. Of course the largest being the result of the 1991 Gulf War. We've certainly go a few notables, Deep Water Horizon being the largest I believe. Most of the world's reported oil spills are maritime shipping accidents.
Here's an interesting article on Russia which it seems is spilling it as fast as they extract it. Typical of Russia, oil spill, what oil spill ??

Russia: A country of oil spills – DW – 03/29/2021

With an oil leak occurring somewhere in the country almost every half hour, Russia records many more spills than other oil-rich states. One hotspot is the Komi Republic in the far north.

www.dw.com

View attachment 1055636

That's probably cuz they consume vodka by the barrel full before going into work at the refineries

 

[Taboma]

That's probably cuz they consume vodka by the barrel full before going into work at the refineries

Oh Lord, had a Russian electrician working for me many years ago, there are simply no adequate words to describe how happy his performance made me ( Temporary state of sobriety) , and yet almost simultaneously how many ways I imagined killing him ( Not sober).

Then on the Fusion Research reactor project, I worked with very specialized Russian electrical engineers, assumed at that level of technical professionalism they'd be different --- no they weren't, it was de ja vu all over again. And yet despite all sane odds and their endless loud laughing and gregarious boastings intended to inspire confidence, they were ultimately right and we didn't all die.

 

[was thatguy]

Other countries governments do not vilify their cash registers.
“Spill” implies an unplanned release. Here in America it is highly regulated and monitored.
Fines, regulations, even criminal repercussions for spills.
Other countries don’t have as many “spills” because the definition doesn’t fit.

I’ve seen half a dozen pu trucks come skidding in, strobes flashing and sirens blaring, for things like a hole poked into a 55 gallon drum by a forklift.
Absorbent laid out, berms built, drum overpacked etc for just a couple gallons.
I’m all for this by the way, I HATE oil on the ground.
But “over there” it isn’t a big deal.
It isn’t always so much that they are trying to “hide” anything (although they do sometimes), it’s really that they don’t always consider it a problem or disaster the way we do here, ergo it isn’t recorded as such.

 

[JB in so cal]

Notice this spill is being reported in GALLONS while most spills are in barrels? Wonder why that is...

 

[Taboma]

Notice this spill is being reported in GALLONS while most spills are in barrels? Wonder why that is...

The reports I read stated both, 3,000 barrels.

 

[HALLETT BOY]

Most of this stuff is monitored by local environmental protection agencies , but there way to busy shaking down small businesses for minuscule oil stains on parking lots .

 

[Taboma]

Most of this stuff is monitored by local environmental protection agencies , but there way to busy shaking down small businesses for minuscule oil stains on parking lots .

Funny, but the very fine print at the bottom of that graphic I posted above, showed the ** for the two Russian oil companies data was provided by Drum Roll Please ---- Greenpeace Wonder how many Greenpeace observers disappear in Russia each year ?????????

 

[Ziggy]

The reports I read stated both, 3,000 barrels.

 

[Echo Lodge]

Neighbor worked for Arco in their oil fields all over the world. Told me this morning that they use to call their oil islands in Long Beach Thumbs... They were always under the thumb of the environmentalists. Went on to explain that most of their platforms are under shell companies so if something goes wrong the Corporation is protected.

 

[grumpy88]

Oh Lord, had a Russian electrician working for me many years ago, there are simply no adequate words to describe how happy his performance made me ( Temporary state of sobriety) , and yet almost simultaneously how many ways I imagined killing him ( Not sober).

Then on the Fusion Research reactor project, I worked with very specialized Russian electrical engineers, assumed at that level of technical professionalism they'd be different --- no they weren't, it was de ja vu all over again. And yet despite all sane odds and their endless loud laughing and gregarious boastings intended to inspire confidence, they were ultimately right and we didn't all die.

I had a Russian coworker who drank vodka all day . Then took up smoking weed in the company van too . Nobody ever caught on because he was deemed just another loud crazy Russian . Scary stuff

 

[Taboma]

View attachment 1055672

For your viewing edification ---

 

[was thatguy]

Neighbor worked for Arco in their oil fields all over the world. Told me this morning that they use to call their oil islands in Long Beach Thumbs... They were always under the thumb of the environmentalists. Went on to explain that most of their platforms are under shell companies so if something goes wrong the Corporation is protected.

I worked on Platform Harmony years back. Exxon platform at the top of the channel.
There is the normal hierarchy like the Co Man and the tool pusher, but on platforms there is also a Safety pusher and Enviro pusher who I THINK was either State or Mine and minerals.
The safety and environmental guys have as much or more stroke than the bosses.
The enviro guy primarily tested discharge fluid like drilling mud and cuttings.

In Prudhoe Bay years back I was on Doyon rig 15 on Northstar Island. (A man made drill island just off the North Coast of Alaska...we called it “Northcatraz”)
The big green peace ship was anchored there blasting shit over their loudspeakers. They kept sending their inflatables right up to the shore of the island. Finally they beached an inflatable and were IMMEDIATELY taken into custody and arrested by State troopers.
It was funny.

 

[Taboma]

I had a Russian coworker who drank vodka all day . Then took up smoking weed in the company van too . Nobody ever caught on because he was deemed just another loud crazy Russian . Scary stuff

YES --- Loud and Scary -- as in fricken crazy scary, you just were never quite sure what was coming up next. I had the crazy rusky working at the 29 Palms Marine Base and living during the week in a rented mobile home.
But the prick would go out and get shit faced, then return home and call me wanting to discuss control wiring diagrams so plastered he could barely dial the phone.
I'd tell him there was no way in hell he'd even recall the conversation in the morning, let alone the details. I was proven right almost daily, yet it never deterred him, I think he just enjoyed torturing me.

 

[samsah33]

What else we don't hear a lot about is the crude oil that naturally seeps into the oceans each year, kinda like the La Brea tar pits, but underwater. Best estimates place natural seepage at approximately 180 million gallons annually. Not saying that we, as stewards of the environment, can't do better, but let's also put things into perspective...

Natural Seepage of Crude Oil into the Marine Environment - Oil in the Sea III - NCBI Bookshelf

 

[stephenkatsea]

A barrel is 42 US Gallons. Not to be confused with a drum which is typically 55 gallons.

 

[stephenkatsea]

Believe that 1991 Gulf War oil event was intentionally performed by Saddam Hussein. IMO - Hard to call that one a spill.

 

[JB in so cal]

Reporting from industry sources is one thing. The breathless media is not sharing the same. It's gallons, gallons, gallons....I'm betting the cause is an anchor drop from one of the container ships.

the last huge spill WAS the result of an anchor drop that punctured the hill of the ship that dropped it in too shallow water.

 

[was thatguy]

A barrel is 42 US Gallons. Not to be confused with a drum which is typically 55 gallons.

Yep.
Standard oil created the “blue barrel” (BBL) as an actual shipping unit, then over time it just became the standard measurement unit.
At least that’s what I’ve always been told.

The extra 2 gallons was originally to allow for expansion or evaporation or something like that.
For reference a typical semi truck tanker trailer will be about 250 Bbl or so depending on purpose.
So 3000 Bbl is like 12 or so semi truck tankers.

 

[Ziggy]

For your viewing edification ---


View attachment 1055682

Guess I should have said I agree with you, I was just showing that googles top listing used gallons.

 

[stephenkatsea]

Spill caused by ship’s anchor? Possible, but unlikely. Vessels of this size will typically anchor in a previously designated Anchorage. These anchorages are clearly marked on NOAA hard copy and electronic charts. Updated charts of the area are required when ships enter. Designated anchorages are void of pipelines and other subsurface obstructions. But . . . ? Sometimes shit does happen.

 

[spectra3279]

Spill caused by ship’s anchor? Possible, but unlikely. Vessels of this size will typically anchor in a previously designated Anchorage. These anchorages are clearly marked on NOAA hard copy and electronic charts. Updated charts of the area are required when ships enter. Designated anchorages are void of pipelines and other subsurface obstructions. But . . . ? Sometimes shit does happen.

Has there been any other time when there were so many ships anchored out there? Ran out of legit anchorages?

 

[Taboma]

Guess I should have said I agree with you, I was just showing that googles top listing used gallons.

It's quite possible neither figure is correct and they're pulling a number out of their collective asses Anyway, it's a friggin mess

 

[WYRD]

Has there been any other time when there were so many ships anchored out there? Ran out of legit anchorages?

It's starting to look like the channel on a holiday weekend

 

[farmo83]

I worked at BP in supply and trading accounting when the Deepwater Horizon was going on. Our entire division had nothing to do with anything remotely related to anything done on any rig on the planet. Still we had to walk through protest to get to work, people had fish and oil thrown at them, the lady that sat a few chairs down from me got threatened while grocery shopping, and a friend of mine got death threats due to statement he made that got picked up and twisted by the media. It's not a fun experience to work at a place and deal with all.of that. While no oil spill.is good, the vast majority of them are less then a pint. And the amount of 9s after 99.9 etc of oil that is moved and not spilt is staggering.

Also 3000 bbls is maybe 15 trucks for perspective.

 

[spectra3279]

It's starting to look like the channel on a holiday weekend

Wait till the beaners show up with their ezups

 

[azsunfun]

I worked on Platform Harmony years back. Exxon platform at the top of the channel.
There is the normal hierarchy like the Co Man and the tool pusher, but on platforms there is also a Safety pusher and Enviro pusher who I THINK was either State or Mine and minerals.
The safety and environmental guys have as much or more stroke than the bosses.
The enviro guy primarily tested discharge fluid like drilling mud and cuttings.

In Prudhoe Bay years back I was on Doyon rig 15 on Northstar Island. (A man made drill island just off the North Coast of Alaska...we called it “Northcatraz”)
The big green peace ship was anchored there blasting shit over their loudspeakers. They kept sending their inflatables right up to the shore of the island. Finally they beached an inflatable and were IMMEDIATELY taken into custody and arrested by State troopers.
It was funny.

water cannons in order.

 

[Taboma]

I worked at BP in supply and trading accounting when the Deepwater Horizon was going on. Our entire division had nothing to do with anything remotely related to anything done on any rig on the planet. Still we had to walk through protest to get to work, people had fish and oil thrown at them, the lady that sat a few chairs down from me got threatened while grocery shopping, and a friend of mine got death threats due to statement he made that got picked up and twisted by the media. It's not a fun experience to work at a place and deal with all.of that. While no oil spill.is good, the vast majority of them are less then a pint. And the amount of 9s after 99.9 etc of oil that is moved and not spilt is staggering.

Also 3000 bbls is maybe 15 trucks for perspective.

Hmmm, sounds like during the Viet Nam war and why I never wore my Army uniform while traveling or flying. Flight attendants seemed to pick us out and were generous with their seating upgrades, that was a nice gesture.

 

[TITTIES AND BEER]

I would say the reporters don’t report it because they might lose their head over it

 

[DWC]

Overblown but a bummer for sure. Couple pics flying over this afternoon. Looked like a clean up ship off Laguna.

 

[CarolynandBob]

Oh Lord, had a Russian electrician working for me many years ago, there are simply no adequate words to describe how happy his performance made me ( Temporary state of sobriety) , and yet almost simultaneously how many ways I imagined killing him ( Not sober).

Then on the Fusion Research reactor project, I worked with very specialized Russian electrical engineers, assumed at that level of technical professionalism they'd be different --- no they weren't, it was de ja vu all over again. And yet despite all sane odds and their endless loud laughing and gregarious boastings intended to inspire confidence, they were ultimately right and we didn't all die.

Went to Russia twice when we were adopting our son. The alcoholism there is no joke. When we go to a restaurant we order a drink. They order a 5th for 2 people. Drink the whole thing.

On the plane going there and coming back they would buy bottles at the duty free store. When you get on the plane they get their purchases. Later on you see the stewardess push the drink cart by with empty 5th's on it. Do NOT ever fly Aeroflot. Worst flight ever.

Tons and Tons of hot women. Wife said that isn't fair because all the men are ugly. lol

 

[4Waters]

Looks like it might have been an anchor, covid strikes again

 

[Taboma]

Looks like it might have been an anchor, covid strikes again

Well that's certainly the best case hopes and dreams of the guy pushing that scenario ----- " A anchor from a cargo ship striking the pipeline is “one of the distinct possibilities” behind the leak, Amplify Energy CEO Martyn Willsher told a news conference. "

Yup, because if it's a corroded weld or other pipeline breech, that company who's stocks are already tumbling, will be in very deep shit.

 

[nowski]

Overblown but a bummer for sure. Couple pics flying over this afternoon. Looked like a clean up ship off Laguna.

View attachment 1055950 View attachment 1055951

No such thing as a good oil spill but the media is billing it as a massive oil spill. In typical fashion the media has a story and there running with it...

 

[KevinR]

LA Times’ big story today is that “officials” knew of a leak on Friday but held off telling local politicians and others. Need to get to the bottom of this! Yeah, right.

I say they held off just to allow a worse situation come about so the fires could be stoked regarding fossil fuels and harming birds and ecosystem.

Man, have I got jaded in my old age.

 

[DarkHorseRacing]

So you can't just light it on fire and burn it off? Wouldnt that be faster than scooping it out?

 

[lbhsbz]

So you can't just light it on fire and burn it off? Wouldnt that be faster than scooping it out?

Not without catalytic converters…this is CA.

 

[Joker]

LA Times’ big story today is that “officials” knew of a leak on Friday but held off telling local politicians and others. Need to get to the bottom of this! Yeah, right.

I say they held off just to allow a worse situation come about so the fires could be stoked regarding fossil fuels and harming birds and ecosystem.

Man, have I got jaded in my old age.

Don’t forget about the city’s money grab to cover pensions.

 

[Danger Dave]

 

[Joker]

It’s no wonder the city is suing. They’re trying to cover up their mistakes. I think Tito could have responded faster than they did and that ain’t saying much.

 

[stephenkatsea]

Spill caused by ship’s anchor? Possible, but unlikely. Vessels of this size will typically anchor in a previously designated Anchorage. These anchorages are clearly marked on NOAA hard copy and electronic charts. Updated charts of the area are required when ships enter. Designated anchorages are void of pipelines and other subsurface obstructions. But . . . ? Sometimes shit does happen.

This afternoon’s news has LA/LB USCG Capt of the Port reporting that a 13” split was found in the pipe and the pipe had been moved about 100 ft laterally from its original position. These finding were reportedly made by CG divers. The potential of one of the numerous ships anchored in the area being involved, seems to be becoming more of a possibility. These ships are positioned and observed by the LA/LB Marine exchange. This a unique combined operation involving the USCG and the private non profit Marine Exchange. It is unclear who owns the non profit Marine Exchange. Vessel Traffic Service, VTS is a part of their services. The Los Angeles pilots and Long Beach pilots are separate organizations that provide similar service. It is unclear if these ships are positioned electronically by the Marine Exchange or via an onboard LA/LB Pilot.

 

[WYRD]

Wonder who would bear the liability in the instance that it was a ship's anchor

 

[JB in so cal]

Wonder who would bear the liability in the instance that it was a ship's anchor

I'll let the Ship Master answer that one. I'd imagine the owner of the ship that dropped it if it was indeed not supposed to be there

 

[JB in so cal]

I spend a lot of time along the coast. Besides the anchored ships off of the harbors, there are several "drift areas" where the ship will move North under power than stop forward propulsion. They then drift South as far as off of Dana Point before motor g back up north to do it again.

 

[92562]

I heard in KFI today that the pipeline was deflected by 105' and looks like the string of a bow before you release. The pipe was apparently straight before that. So the ship would have liability. That said, the low pressure alarm went off at 2:39am Saturday and the pipeline wasn't shut down until 6:00am. It wasn't reported until 9:00am. Looks like someone my have been asleep at the computer. You would think that a massive loss of pressure would cause an automatic shutdown. Then, inspect and if no leaks, turn it back on. I may be oversimplifying this.

 

[stephenkatsea]

I'll let the Ship Master answer that one. I'd imagine the owner of the ship that dropped it if it was indeed not supposed to be there

The ship’s Master has the ultimate responsibility. Some concerned Masters opt to carry liability insurance. But, as always, in these situations the attorneys involved are looking for the deepest pockets. That typically is the vessel’s owner. It gets muddled real quick. What if the vessel had been mis-directed by someone ashore at the Marine Exchange of LA/LB. Interesting that this Marine Exchange is advertised as a non profit organization. So, that may somehow cloud their liability exposure? When we had to anchor prior to entering a port, some sort of “Port Control” would instruct us to proceed to Anchorage X Y Z. Knowing these radio transmissions are all recorded, I would repeat their instructions and wait for their affirmative response. Upon completing anchoring I would again call Port Control and let them know that we were anchored and standing by in anchorage X Y Z, as advised. There would be no Pilot involved at this point. When they were ready for us to enter port, we’d be advised over radio, the Pilot would arrive at our vessel at xxxx hr. The Pilot would have berthing information and we’d then proceed to that berth, with the Local Routing instructions/advice from the Pilot. We never required tugs. If tugs are used the Pilot directs them. Some pilots also request to con the ship. But, that is at the discretion of the Master.

“If” a ship disturbed this pipeline, given the recent weather, it is unlikely that wind/swell/waves may have caused that ship to drag anchor. I’ve witnessed Masters opting to be making dead slow ahead speeds while they are pulling their anchor. Truthfully, it gives them a little steerage and removes some of the mud and sand from their anchor. Also, some Masters may forcefully back down on their anchor to make sure it is hung. On a 800ft+ ship, a 100ft drag is nothing. In any case, it appears the pipeline had somehow been moved 100 ft. AIS records for that time period should indicate if any ships had been near the fracture location recently as found by CG divers. That pipe is not going to move by itself.